Cut: Havoc Epi + Prototype 11oxo + prototype DHEA ?

Jmlift

New member
How does this sound for a cut cycle?
Too much?

Ive never done a PH outside of 11-kt and oxo.

I was thinking Epi at 20-30 per day. 4-6wks and I’ll get Torem.


Thank you
 
Which ones of these have you previously used? Because I wouldn't go stacking a bunch of stuff I never used before or you got no way to tell what drugs are causing what side effects and how to manage the side effects
 
Smont said:
Which ones of these have you previously used? Because I wouldn't go stacking a bunch of stuff I never used before or you got no way to tell what drugs are causing what side effects and how to manage the side effects
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Valid.

I’ve taken oxo a bunch. Thats it.

Maybe I should run the Epi first then end with oxo to keep leaning out.
 
Ok I just read it again. If prototype dhea is 4 andro then it looks like a decent little cycle. Epi at 20mg, 11 at whatever dose you previously used and 200-300 4 andro. Probably 5-6 weeks tops on epistane
 
Jmlift said:
Valid.

I’ve taken oxo a bunch. Thats it.

Maybe I should run the Epi first then end with oxo to keep leaning out.
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No, epistane is 10x stronger then 11oxo. Start with ste weaker drugs. Otherwise you finish your cycle on less gear then you started and that's counter productive
 
Smont said:
No, epistane is 10x stronger then 11oxo. Start with ste weaker drugs. Otherwise you finish your cycle on less gear then you started and that's counter productive
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Roger that. Thank you.

Here is the DHEA: Invalid Link Removed
 
botk1161 said:
4-DHEA is not DHEA. You want 4 DHEA (4 Andro). I prefer topcial. I think there are only two choices at the moment. Alpha Gainz or Iron Mag Labs.
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Alpha Gainz hasn't produced 4-Andro in quite some time anymore (lisensing issue), but maybe some can still be found somewhere. To my knowledge IML is the only brand still producing transdermal 4-Andro.
 
Jmlift said:
Correct.

So I’d rather just do Epi and oxo
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No, you'll run into low test and even more so to low estro issues, especially with the Epistane's anti estrogenic effect. Definitely have the DHEA in. Oral DHEA has a low bioavailability and a short half life, so transdermal would be better, IMO. Apex Alchemy and Iconic Formulations have high quality TD DHEA products. 4-Andro would be better though, like has been said above.
 
KvanH said:
Alpha Gainz hasn't produced 4-Andro in quite some time anymore (lisensing issue), but maybe some can still be found somewhere. To my knowledge IML is the only brand still producing transdermal 4-Andro.
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Flexit has it and it seems a number of other retailers do as well.
 
KvanH said:
No, you'll run into low test and even more so to low estro issues, especially with the Epistane's anti estrogenic effect. Definitely have the DHEA in. Oral DHEA has a low bioavailability and a short half life, so transdermal would be better, IMO. Apex Alchemy and Iconic Formulations have high quality TD DHEA products. 4-Andro would be better though, like has been said above.
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Thanks

TD off the table for me right now with newborn around the corner. I hear you on the bioavailability but I think Patrick Arnold’s prototype stuff is known to have better bioavailability …

it sounds like you are saying use the the DHEA I have if I don’t go out and get a 4DHEA
 
Jmlift said:
Thanks

TD off the table for me right now with newborn around the corner. I hear you on the bioavailability but I think Patrick Arnold’s prototype stuff is known to have better bioavailability …

it sounds like you are saying use the the DHEA I have if I don’t go out and get a 4DHEA
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Yes, definitely have at least DHEA in, since I take it you're not going to pin test. Hard rock supplements has a decent oral 4-Andro as well.

https://www.strongsupplementshop.com/andro-the-giant-by-hard-rock-supplements
 
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Jmlift said:
Roger that. Thank you.

Here is the DHEA: Invalid Link Removed
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Dude, that's plain old dhea, you can get a bottle for $5-8 this product is a scam if it's being marked like a anabolic. Don't waste your money on that, it's not gonna do much if anything and with plain dhea. You want 4 dhea or 4 andro. The stuff you are looking it is overpriced to the equivalent of spending $45 on a gallon of milk online when the grocery store has it for $5
 
Smont said:
Dude, that's plain old dhea, you can get a bottle for $5-8 this product is a scam if it's being marked like a anabolic. Don't waste your money on that, it's not gonna do much if anything and with plain dhea. You want 4 dhea or 4 andro. The stuff you are looking it is overpriced to the equivalent of spending $45 on a gallon of milk online when the grocery store has it for $5
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I understand that. It’s not being marketed as an anabolic at all. The misunderstanding is on my part, not the company.

So I can grab something like Invalid Link Removed
 
Jmlift said:
I understand that. It’s not being marketed as an anabolic at all. The misunderstanding is on my part, not the company.

So I can grab something like Invalid Link Removed
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Regardless, It's still a scam charging $45 for dhea.

Invalid Link Removed


Invalid Link Removed


Just showing how cheap dhea is.

Look for andro the giant or some transdermal 4 andro.

Even oral 4 andro


Oral 200-400mg+
TD 100-300+
 
Smont said:
Regardless, It's still a scam charging $45 for dhea.

Invalid Link Removed


Invalid Link Removed


Just showing how cheap dhea is.

Look for andro the giant or some transdermal 4 andro.

Even oral 4 andro


Oral 200-400mg+
TD 100-300+
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I hear you dude. I appreciate all the input.

I think over the years Patrick Arnold had an incredible reputation of making the highest quality / highest bioavailability possible but anyway haha. I get it. Thank you. I’ll take that alone some other time as a general “aging” supplement and see if it helps.
 
Jmlift said:
I hear you dude. I appreciate all the input.

I think over the years Patrick Arnold had an incredible reputation of making the highest quality / highest bioavailability possible but anyway haha. I get it. Thank you. I’ll take that alone some other time as a general “aging” supplement and see if it helps.
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Dhea? Patrick Arnold made s lot of good stuff bit there's not much to do with plain dhea and I don't see why he would even bother
 
Jmlift said:
I understand that. It’s not being marketed as an anabolic at all. The misunderstanding is on my part, not the company.

So I can grab something like Invalid Link Removed
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Keep in mind you need about 300mg per day so this bottle will last about 15 days.
 
Not a bad cycle. I'm not the biggest fan of epistane but tons of people love it. And like was said, IML makes really good TDs, so if you want to go with TD 4-DHEA, they are a great choice.
 
Smont said:
Regardless, It's still a scam charging $45 for dhea.

Invalid Link Removed


Invalid Link Removed


Just showing how cheap dhea is.

Look for andro the giant or some transdermal 4 andro.

Even oral 4 andro


Oral 200-400mg+
TD 100-300+
Click to expand...
Amdro the giant is legit? The high dose and 90 servings looks great
 
KvanH said:
It has been used by many members here with good feedback. It's quite pricy, but Andros are. I would take 3 caps a day (330 mg).
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Thanks. At 110mg and 90caps, it seems actually better value than most of the 50-75mg at 60 caps.
 
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