DHB?

[Smont]

I've had the terrible pip from x2 different labs. What I hear is if it has no pip it's fake you bought Masteron. I can easily rub 700 mg onto my skin in a week. Way different than 200-300 of pain in the ass

That is false, pip has nothing to do with it being fake, I mean yes of course it's possible but it's the process of making it that will determine the pip. Also, different ppl get different levels of pip. I've never experienced pip from anything unless it was the first few times pinning a specific muscle group

 

[Smont]

Also, there's nothing magic about this stuff. I know it's the new kid on the block so everybody's all excited about it. But if you take all the greatest physiques built in the past 20 years, 30 years hell 50 years, it doesn't matter how long you go back none of them were built on dhb. We're all just excited about something new or newer but it's popularity will come and go just like everything else does

 

[Smont]

Or, if you truly want gurenteed pip free dhb start pinning 1000+mg of eq, you'll get plenty of conversion to dhb

 

[scuncknuts]

i dont like eq makes me super hungry and dhb is more dry and cuts better, i just like dhb dont like the pip

 

[DR.D]

Smont is right, it comes and goes in popularity, like everything does. Nonetheless, I disagree that it isn't special. It is somewhat special.

Deca seems like 'the one' you've always been looking for, until the 2nd or 3rd month and your d!ck stops working. And Bold seems great too at first, unless you're stacking it with A-50, a little too much test, or practically anything else that's even mildly wet, then you swell up like a hypertensive beach ball with a BP in the 170's. They all have their issues that have to be dealt with.

Not TC though (what you call DHB now.) It's as anabolic as Primo and as hardening as Mast or Halo. You can stack it with practically anything and the sides are mild even at higher doses. If it weren't for the PIP, it would be the best all-purpose test companion IME.

 

[BBiceps]

Smont is right, it comes and goes in popularity, like everything does. Nonetheless, I disagree that it isn't special. It is somewhat special.

Deca seems like 'the one' you've always been looking for, until the 2nd or 3rd month and your d!ck stops working. And Bold seems great too at first, unless you're stacking it with A-50, a little too much test, or practically anything else that's even mildly wet, then you swell up like a hypertensive beach ball with a BP in the 170's. They all have their issues that have to be dealt with.

Not TC though (what you call DHB now.) It's as anabolic as Primo and as hardening as Mast or Halo. You can stack it with practically anything and the sides are mild even at higher doses. If it weren't for the PIP, it would be the best all-purpose test companion IME.

Thanks for your input, what dosing do you recommend? I seen everything from 50mg to +400mg. I’m trying it now but will probably keep my dosing around 150-200, no pip so far but I’m mixing it with Test&Mast and been keeping the DHB at 1cc or below, heard the pip problems start when you go over 1cc.

 

[Smont]

Smont is right, it comes and goes in popularity, like everything does. Nonetheless, I disagree that it isn't special. It is somewhat special.

Deca seems like 'the one' you've always been looking for, until the 2nd or 3rd month and your d!ck stops working. And Bold seems great too at first, unless you're stacking it with A-50, a little too much test, or practically anything else that's even mildly wet, then you swell up like a hypertensive beach ball with a BP in the 170's. They all have their issues that have to be dealt with.

Not TC though (what you call DHB now.) It's as anabolic as Primo and as hardening as Mast or Halo. You can stack it with practically anything and the sides are mild even at higher doses. If it weren't for the PIP, it would be the best all-purpose test companion IME.

I got a question for you, do you think the negative health impacts that a lot of people are seeing on their blood work from dhb has more to do with how it's being produced then the actual compound itself? Because theoretically if the actual dhb was causing the problems then high doses of EQ converting to dhb would cause similar problems but we don't see that.

 

[DR.D]

Thanks for your input, what dosing do you recommend? I seen everything from 50mg to +400mg. I’m trying it now but will probably keep my dosing around 150-200, no pip so far but I’m mixing it with Test&Mast and been keeping the DHB at 1cc or below, heard the pip problems start when you go over 1cc.

200/wk is enough to notice real results, but if you really want to work it then 400 is about optimal. 600 is marginally better than 400, but it's past the point of efficiency and there's no breaks at all from the PIP at 600. So for most guys I'd guess 500 or less would be realistic, with ~400 as the sweet spot.

Dilution helps, but I was never able to completely resolve the problem with any formulary tricks. That's back when a lot of us used to homebrew, the last time this molecule was popular and powder was available OTC, but maybe today's suppliers have figured out a solution for the PIP?

 

[DR.D]

I got a question for you, do you think the negative health impacts that a lot of people are seeing on their blood work from dhb has more to do with how it's being produced then the actual compound itself? Because theoretically if the actual dhb was causing the problems then high doses of EQ converting to dhb would cause similar problems but we don't see that.

If toxic excipients are being used (like to obtain super concentrations) then yes, maybe that is the main issue contributing to negative bloodwork. What exactly is the negative health impact that people are seeing? DHB destroys lipid profiles after only about a month, but there should not be any indicators of hepatic stress, no significant blood differential concerns, and no major analyte imbalances either (except high Phosphorus.)

And I agree with you about EQ, Smont, but to be fair I'm just not familiar enough with current DHB producers to say one way or the other. Can you offer any additional details about their processes or formulations?

 

[BBiceps]

200/wk is enough to notice real results, but if you really want to work it then 400 is about optimal. 600 is marginally better than 400, but it's past the point of efficiency and there's no breaks at all from the PIP at 600. So for most guys I'd guess 500 or less would be realistic, with ~400 as the sweet spot.

Dilution helps, but I was never able to completely resolve the problem with any formulary tricks. That's back when a lot of us used to homebrew, the last time this molecule was popular and powder was available OTC, but maybe today's suppliers have figured out a solution for the PIP?

Well, I might have spoken too soon… after today’s shot I actually have a little knot under my skin in my shoulder, it’s not really painful but it’s there. Idk if it was just a bad shot (I did move the needle around more than usual) or it’s because of the DHB, my other 3 shots have been in my glutes and it was no knot/pain/irritation there. I try my other shoulder for my next shot on Sunday and see if shoulders is a no go or if it was just a bad shot.

 

[Smont]

If toxic excipients are being used (like to obtain super concentrations) then yes, maybe that is the main issue contributing to negative bloodwork. What exactly is the negative health impact that people are seeing? DHB destroys lipid profiles after only about a month, but there should not be any indicators of hepatic stress, no significant blood differential concerns, and no major analyte imbalances either (except high Phosphorus.)

And I agree with you about EQ, Smont, but to be fair I'm just not familiar enough with current DHB producers to say one way or the other. Can you offer any additional details about their processes or formulations?

No, no1 appears to be making high mg/ml stuff. I'm also not sure exactly what everyone is doing when they make it. I'm trying to figure it out. Because something they were originally doing was causing unbearable pip and it seems like although pip is still a complaint for people, it's not as bad as once was. I've seen it get significantly more user friendly over the past few years.

But from word of mouth and the limited bloods I've seen, everyone is reporting similar effects to orals, cholesterol and liver #'s going up fairly quickly.

I threw out some numbers my buddy sent me from his bloods that were nothing alarming but still significantly higher then if he was on any other injectable. Numbers looking similar to when he was on orals like high dose Winny 30mg SD.

So I'm just wondering why these numbers seem to be coming back like this.

Maybe high amounts of solvents or some kind of crap carrier oil.

Idk, I would assume the product could easily be made with MCT oil, BA, BB and some EO. Or maybe the process needs large amounts of EO and thats causing the "toxic" looking effects on bloods.

I honestly don't have a clue. It dosent make a whole lot of sense to me

 

[Smont]

Sorry if I didn't say it, guys liver #'s are double to -5x on the stuff. I've first hand seen them double on bloods "not alarming to me" but I've seen someone "in this thread I believe" mentioned 4-5x elevations. This is the most extreme I've heard of.

So liver stress. I hate the word toxic, but that's what everyone likes to say.

So higher then normal liver elevations then other injectables.

 

[Hyde]

If toxic excipients are being used (like to obtain super concentrations) then yes, maybe that is the main issue contributing to negative bloodwork. What exactly is the negative health impact that people are seeing? DHB destroys lipid profiles after only about a month, but there should not be any indicators of hepatic stress, no significant blood differential concerns, and no major analyte imbalances either (except high Phosphorus.)

And I agree with you about EQ, Smont, but to be fair I'm just not familiar enough with current DHB producers to say one way or the other. Can you offer any additional details about their processes or formulations?

We talking reduced HDL, or significantly elevating LDL as well?

 

[DR.D]

Sorry if I didn't say it, guys liver #'s are double to -5x on the stuff. I've first hand seen them double on bloods "not alarming to me" but I've seen someone "in this thread I believe" mentioned 4-5x elevations. This is the most extreme I've heard of.

So liver stress. I hate the word toxic, but that's what everyone likes to say.

So higher then normal liver elevations then other injectables.

Yeah, that shouldn't be happening. If liver values are going that crazy then I'd guess a contaminant is responsible, or a bad co-solvent is being used. I'd stay away from it.

And EO isn't a problem. EO is a great primary carrier and can replace any oil. In fact, especially if you're frequently spotting certain sites, EO is superior to Synthol, MCT or even the thinnest veg oils. No scarring or knots years later.

 

[DR.D]

We talking reduced HDL, or significantly elevating LDL as well?

Sorry to be so vague, Hyde! But yes Sir, I meant dramatically reduced HDL (although total cholesterol was often 25-30% higher as well.)

BUT, that's when I used to take a lot of fish oil, before I knew better. All those omega-3s weren't doing my numbers any favors. Now I'd say a diet high in Coconut oil (or a supp regimen high in Lauric acid) might mitigate some of that by maintaining HDL levels. Using higher omega-9 oils on cycle might not be a bad idea either for keeping lipids in a more desirable range.

 

[Hyde]

Sorry to be so vague, Hyde! But yes Sir, I meant dramatically reduced HDL (although total cholesterol was often 25-30% higher as well.)

BUT, that's when I used to take a lot of fish oil, before I knew better. All those omega-3s weren't doing my numbers any favors. Now I'd say a diet high in Coconut oil (or a supp regimen high in Lauric acid) might mitigate some of that by maintaining HDL levels. Using higher omega-9 oils on cycle might not be a bad idea either for keeping lipids in a more desirable range.

Well this is really opening a rabbit hole for me

 

[DR.D]

Haha, don't sweat it Hyde! HDL is probably over-rated anyway. Take some Vitamin C everyday and don't worry about it too much.

 

[Hyde]

Haha, don't sweat it Hyde! HDL is probably over-rated anyway. Take some Vitamin C everyday and don't worry about it too much.

Twice a day bro; gotta stimulate that collagen synthesis as often as possible. My knees haven’t stopped popping every bend since a meet last Sunday

 

[Smont]

Well this is really opening a rabbit hole for me

Cardio

 

[BBiceps]

Sorry to be so vague, Hyde! But yes Sir, I meant dramatically reduced HDL (although total cholesterol was often 25-30% higher as well.)

BUT, that's when I used to take a lot of fish oil, before I knew better. All those omega-3s weren't doing my numbers any favors. Now I'd say a diet high in Coconut oil (or a supp regimen high in Lauric acid) might mitigate some of that by maintaining HDL levels. Using higher omega-9 oils on cycle might not be a bad idea either for keeping lipids in a more desirable range.

Did I miss something, why is Fish oil bad (Omega-3)?

 

[Hyde]

Cardio

I’m not a boxer bro I’m just trying to be Godzilla here.

Did I miss something, why is Fish oil bad (Omega-3)?

Not speaking for Dr. D, but large amounts of fish oil intake generally can raise trigs. I can’t remember if they can have relevant impact on LDL levels negatively too or not.

Taking pure EPA capsules will bypass that issue, but it’s truly very pricey. I have been doing this for some months now, but don’t think I’m going to continue shelling out. My trigs were never a problem anyway even eating 8-10g cheap fish oil a day.

 

[Smont]

Did I miss something, why is Fish oil bad (Omega-3)?

I think he was just saying that it wasn't working for him, not that it was bad

 

[DR.D]

Fish oil seems to be alright in low amounts, but there was a time I would take 3-12 of those softgels daily! I think we all did, lol.

However, now it is established that the cardio toxicity of excess PUFAs is real. PUFAs increased estrogen, and act like estrogen in many ways. Both estrogen and PUFAs increase blood vessel permeability. If your estrogen is extra high on cycle, it's a recipe for trouble, because they both causes capillaries to become leaky, allowing water to escape from the blood. That's one of the reasons estrogen bloats, because that lost water is taken up by the body's cells. Any source of inflammation causes a similar loss of water from the bloodstream (which presents as circulatory shock in its extreme form.) This shock occurs from reduced blood volume, which may be masked with high RBCs so you don't necessarily detect it subjectively. But it's interesting that PUFAs slow heart rate and extend the excited state (action potential) of the heart, just like an estrogen overdose does, with subsequent tachycardia. It could be viewed like going into a mini-shock. EPA and ALA also prolong QT interval and could be a common cause of unexplained palpitations

People still see estrogen as a cardioprotective, but it's got 2 faces. There's clear proof of its role in heart failure, arrhythmias, sudden cardiac death and induction of varicose veins. I have observed some of these things myself, and it's my theory that ERa sub-receptor stimulation is responsible for the toxicity of estrogens, while ERb agonism seems to explain the desirable properties of estrogens in general. The problem is that the influence of ERa prevails in most estrogens like Estradiol, cancelling or even inverting the positive cardio benefits of estrogen if used in therapeutic doses.

But at any rate, these PUFA oils are chemically unstable to begin with and start to spontaneously oxidize even before they reach the bloodstream. A diet rich in fish oil causes intense production of toxic lipid peroxides, and is demonstrated to reduce sperm counts in men and promote rapid cancer growth in virtually every animal model. Many degenerative conditions like diabetes and a variety of CVDs involve breakdown products of PUFAs also. Metabolites like acrolein and malondialdehyde are involved. Acrolein contributes oxidative toxicity to LDLs, the proteins that carry cholesterol and are believed to promote atherosclerosis. It's probably not even the LDL that's the problem, it's the oxidation complexes.

So I'd take a heavy dose of Vitamin C or other antioxidant if I still took a lot of fish oil. But I don't apply it therapeutically/daily anymore. I only take it 2x/wk now, and only because it's "essential". I do use Coconut oil daily though, cooking my morning eggs in it. It raises HDL better than any other oil that I've studied.

 

[Smont]

Fish oil seems to be alright in low amounts, but there was a time I would take 3-12 of those softgels daily! I think we all did, lol.

However, now it is established that the cardio toxicity of excess PUFAs is real. PUFAs increased estrogen, and act like estrogen in many ways. Both estrogen and PUFAs increase blood vessel permeability. If your estrogen is extra high on cycle, it's a recipe for trouble, because they both causes capillaries to become leaky, allowing water to escape from the blood. That's one of the reasons estrogen bloats, because that lost water is taken up by the body's cells. Any source of inflammation causes a similar loss of water from the bloodstream (which presents as circulatory shock in its extreme form.) This shock occurs from reduced blood volume, which may be masked with high RBCs so you don't necessarily detect it subjectively. But it's interesting that PUFAs slow heart rate and extend the excited state (action potential) of the heart, just like an estrogen overdose does, with subsequent tachycardia. It could be viewed like going into a mini-shock. EPA and ALA also prolong QT interval and could be a common cause of unexplained palpitations

People still see estrogen as a cardioprotective, but it's got 2 faces. There's clear proof of its role in heart failure, arrhythmias, sudden cardiac death and induction of varicose veins. I have observed some of these things myself, and it's my theory that ERa sub-receptor stimulation is responsible for the toxicity of estrogens, while ERb agonism seems to explain the desirable properties of estrogens in general. The problem is that the influence of ERa prevails in most estrogens like Estradiol, cancelling or even inverting the positive cardio benefits of estrogen if used in therapeutic doses.

But at any rate, these PUFA oils are chemically unstable to begin with and start to spontaneously oxidize even before they reach the bloodstream. A diet rich in fish oil causes intense production of toxic lipid peroxides, and is demonstrated to reduce sperm counts in men and promote rapid cancer growth in virtually every animal model. Many degenerative conditions like diabetes and a variety of CVDs involve breakdown products of PUFAs also. Metabolites like acrolein and malondialdehyde are involved. Acrolein contributes oxidative toxicity to LDLs, the proteins that carry cholesterol and are believed to promote atherosclerosis. It's probably not even the LDL that's the problem, it's the oxidation complexes.

So I'd take a heavy dose of Vitamin C or other antioxidant if I still took a lot of fish oil. But I don't apply it therapeutically/daily anymore. I only take it 2x/wk now, and only because it's "essential". I do use Coconut oil daily though, cooking my morning eggs in it. It raises HDL better than any other oil that I've studied.

I like to shoot for my 3g of EPA/DHA, it dosent necessarily have to be from fish oil either, diet first and supplementation to fill the gap. I like this product for this purpose.

I'm not associated with this company, it's just the one I like to use.

But seeing how all my gear is made in MCT oil, I eat some foods fortified with extra EPA/DHA, my cheat meals often contain sushi or sashimi.

I often wonder if I even need any extra omega-3s

 

[Hyde]

Fish oil seems to be alright in low amounts, but there was a time I would take 3-12 of those softgels daily! I think we all did, lol.

However, now it is established that the cardio toxicity of excess PUFAs is real. PUFAs increased estrogen, and act like estrogen in many ways. Both estrogen and PUFAs increase blood vessel permeability. If your estrogen is extra high on cycle, it's a recipe for trouble, because they both causes capillaries to become leaky, allowing water to escape from the blood. That's one of the reasons estrogen bloats, because that lost water is taken up by the body's cells. Any source of inflammation causes a similar loss of water from the bloodstream (which presents as circulatory shock in its extreme form.) This shock occurs from reduced blood volume, which may be masked with high RBCs so you don't necessarily detect it subjectively. But it's interesting that PUFAs slow heart rate and extend the excited state (action potential) of the heart, just like an estrogen overdose does, with subsequent tachycardia. It could be viewed like going into a mini-shock. EPA and ALA also prolong QT interval and could be a common cause of unexplained palpitations

People still see estrogen as a cardioprotective, but it's got 2 faces. There's clear proof of its role in heart failure, arrhythmias, sudden cardiac death and induction of varicose veins. I have observed some of these things myself, and it's my theory that ERa sub-receptor stimulation is responsible for the toxicity of estrogens, while ERb agonism seems to explain the desirable properties of estrogens in general. The problem is that the influence of ERa prevails in most estrogens like Estradiol, cancelling or even inverting the positive cardio benefits of estrogen if used in therapeutic doses.

But at any rate, these PUFA oils are chemically unstable to begin with and start to spontaneously oxidize even before they reach the bloodstream. A diet rich in fish oil causes intense production of toxic lipid peroxides, and is demonstrated to reduce sperm counts in men and promote rapid cancer growth in virtually every animal model. Many degenerative conditions like diabetes and a variety of CVDs involve breakdown products of PUFAs also. Metabolites like acrolein and malondialdehyde are involved. Acrolein contributes oxidative toxicity to LDLs, the proteins that carry cholesterol and are believed to promote atherosclerosis. It's probably not even the LDL that's the problem, it's the oxidation complexes.

So I'd take a heavy dose of Vitamin C or other antioxidant if I still took a lot of fish oil. But I don't apply it therapeutically/daily anymore. I only take it 2x/wk now, and only because it's "essential". I do use Coconut oil daily though, cooking my morning eggs in it. It raises HDL better than any other oil that I've studied.

I have been taking 3g, 6 caps split over 2 doses, of this daily for some months:

It’s independently reviewed to help it’s not found to be oxidized on shelves before purchase, & it’s pure EPA - this is my “budget” alternative to Vascepa. It’s like $40 for 20 days or something.

Also, another glute shot yesterday that included 100mg/1cc of DHB and no PIP. Going to try lats with it soon.

 

[DR.D]

I like to shoot for my 3g of EPA/DHA, it dosent necessarily have to be from fish oil either, diet first and supplementation to fill the gap. I like this product for this purpose.
View attachment 217624
I'm not associated with this company, it's just the one I like to use.

But seeing how all my gear is made in MCT oil, I eat some foods fortified with extra EPA/DHA, my cheat meals often contain sushi or sashimi.

I often wonder if I even need any extra omega-3s

LE is a good brand IME, and the omega-3s in Fish oil are supposed to be less damaging that those found in seed oils, so it's a good call. Like I said, they are said to be essential (perhaps moreso in developing organisms than adults) so you need a little, but the only reason I'd maybe take extra is to balance out a high omega-6 intake ratio, which is usually too high they say.

But in the end, who knows. It's probably 90% genetics anyway. I'd just stick with what works for you, Smont. You know your body, you have been quite successful in your training, and I'm sure you can generally sense the health or toxicity of the things you repeatedly ingest.

 

[DR.D]

I have been taking 3g, 6 caps split over 2 doses, of this daily for some months:

View attachment 217631

It’s independently reviewed to help it’s not found to be oxidized on shelves before purchase, & it’s pure EPA - this is my “budget” alternative to Vascepa. It’s like $40 for 20 days or something.

Also, another glute shot yesterday that included 100mg/1cc of DHB and no PIP. Going to try lats with it soon.

Yeah, I used to subscribe to a service that tested common supps and lots of brands, and kept fresh results posted for stuff like this. Can't remember what the site was though, that was several computers ago, lol.

But yeah, if you think it helps, I didn't mean to make you doubt. When it comes to health, I believe experienced athletes should trust their intuition when they aren't sure.

 

[Danksta710]

Great info about dhb and fish oil from @DR.D itt. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Smont]

Bump, any new feedback on dhb? Just curious.

 

[BBiceps]

Bump, any new feedback on dhb? Just curious.

I tried it, it’s PIP on 1cc and up injections and I didn’t really see any real results, but I only used it @200mg ew and stopped after 5-6 weeks, mostly because I started to imagine that my heart hurt.

 

[SSJ4GOD]

Idk personally a compound like DHB seems… meh. Between cost, results, potential PIP… just get something else lol

 

[Danksta710]

If you have legit pip free DHB it's def worth a run. I ran it last year, started with pip stuff, and found the brand that was truly pip free and kept running it. Lasted 16 weeks and that compound is quite special to me. I was going to run it again this winter but decided to save it for a future year. I felt like a god in the gym. I was able to train almost every day for about 10 weeks until the body wanted a break. I've had enough time off to access that cycle and man is DHB amazing. Sucks labs brew it badly and give it a bad rep. Pip free is tits.

 

[Smont]

Honestly I don't even care so much about the PIP, that seems to be everyone's main concern but I'm more concerned with the cosmetic effects and how I feel on it and stuff like that. I already mentioned this to danksta but I just had lots of people tell me it has powerful effects on glucose metabolism and insulin sensitivity at very low doses so my thought was to use it at a low dose in a bulk so I can keep pushing my weight up and try to stay lean.

I got to do another stupid weight cut down to 178 but after that I'm done cutting weight and I want to push my weight back up over 220 this time closer to 230 but be leaner cuz I got kind of fat last time I did it.

I seem to grow nicely up to about 212 to 215 lb and then fat starts piling on faster than muscle, so I'm just shopping ideas around at the moment. It's going to be a long time before this happens anyways probably not for a good 4-5 months.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

i know you hate the idea ... but i think you should get down with some nor test. that will help growth and keep you tight.

 

[SSJ4GOD]

Honestly I don't even care so much about the PIP, that seems to be everyone's main concern but I'm more concerned with the cosmetic effects and how I feel on it and stuff like that. I already mentioned this to danksta but I just had lots of people tell me it has powerful effects on glucose metabolism and insulin sensitivity at very low doses so my thought was to use it at a low dose in a bulk so I can keep pushing my weight up and try to stay lean.

I got to do another stupid weight cut down to 178 but after that I'm done cutting weight and I want to push my weight back up over 220 this time closer to 230 but be leaner cuz I got kind of fat last time I did it.

I seem to grow nicely up to about 212 to 215 lb and then fat starts piling on faster than muscle, so I'm just shopping ideas around at the moment. It's going to be a long time before this happens anyways probably not for a good 4-5 months.

If you just want it for low dose purposes, wouldn’t a 1-andro product make more sense for that case? No pip, it does convert. The only negative is you won’t know EXACTLY how much but at low doses for those reasons, I think it makes sense.

 

[Smont]

If you just want it for low dose purposes, wouldn’t a 1-andro product make more sense for that case? No pip, it does convert. The only negative is you won’t know EXACTLY how much but at low doses for those reasons, I think it makes sense.

No, 1 Andro is not even remotely close. 1 Andro is probably the only prohormone/steroid I hate. It's doesn't act the same as dhb

 

[Smont]

If you just want it for low dose purposes, wouldn’t a 1-andro product make more sense for that case? No pip, it does convert. The only negative is you won’t know EXACTLY how much but at low doses for those reasons, I think it makes sense.

It's also not for low dose purposes, it's for a specific purpose that should be able to be achieved with low doses but again, 1 Andro will not suffice

 

[SSJ4GOD]

No, 1 Andro is not even remotely close. 1 Andro is probably the only prohormone/steroid I hate. It's doesn't act the same as dhb

Very interesting because 1-Andro is probably my favorite dhea based ph lol

 

[Danksta710]

Honestly I don't even care so much about the PIP, that seems to be everyone's main concern but I'm more concerned with the cosmetic effects and how I feel on it and stuff like that. I already mentioned this to danksta but I just had lots of people tell me it has powerful effects on glucose metabolism and insulin sensitivity at very low doses so my thought was to use it at a low dose in a bulk so I can keep pushing my weight up and try to stay lean.

I got to do another stupid weight cut down to 178 but after that I'm done cutting weight and I want to push my weight back up over 220 this time closer to 230 but be leaner cuz I got kind of fat last time I did it.

I seem to grow nicely up to about 212 to 215 lb and then fat starts piling on faster than muscle, so I'm just shopping ideas around at the moment. It's going to be a long time before this happens anyways probably not for a good 4-5 months.

Have you run DHB before tho? Truly experienced the pip? The stuff that causes pip will cause inflammation unlike any other compound you have likely tried. I had golf balls on my hips for weeks and the thought of training was tough. It's not something you can simply ignore. I'd make sure 100% your source is pip free before even considering it. Had I not found and switched to the good stuff, my cycle would have been done at week 4. I had to wear pants a bigger size those golf balls were that big.

 

[Smont]

Have you run DHB before tho? Truly experienced the pip? The stuff that causes pip will cause inflammation unlike any other compound you have likely tried. I had golf balls on my hips for weeks and the thought of training was tough. It's not something you can simply ignore. I'd make sure 100% your source is pip free before even considering it. Had I not found and switched to the good stuff, my cycle would have been done at week 4. I had to wear pants a bigger size those golf balls were that big.

Have not ran dhb, I've also never experienced pip from any gear, even using the same test prop many ppl were saying cause horrible pip but didn't for me. It's all irrelevant tho. I'm learning about the stuff right now and just taking in people's experiences so pip doesn't mean anything to me at the moment is what I'm saying. That being said, if my sources causes pip then I'm just not using it. My source is always spot on and I'm not going to go out of my way to just make a dhb order from someone different so basically what I'm saying is if his doesn't feel right then I'm not using it at all because there's more than one way to skin a cat I don't have to use dhb. But in general, all I'm concerned with right now is people's experiences and blood work. If people's blood work comes back looking like they've been on the world then I'll just use or else instead of worrying about trying something new. Or il use low dose tren when the time comes, for none of the above

 

[Smont]

God I hate talk to text LOL, sorry for the 5,000 typos

 

[Danksta710]

Gotcha

 

[Hyde]

@Smont did I tell you about my recent run with it?

My blast was something like 18-20 weeks, and I had DHB in it for probably 13-15. Would have to deep dive my log to be sure.

Anyway, a lot of the run was test/mast/DHB, then adding a cc of Deca for the last 10 weeks, and 4 weeks out from comp the Masteron was replaced with testosterone. Var last 6 weeks as well. Midway it was like 300 test, 200 deca, 350 mast, 150 DHB.

Final month was 750 test, 250 deca, 100 DHB, plus 50/day Var, & 15-20mg Mk677. The final 10 days pre comp shots ended & 50 Anadrol/day was added.

Bloods draw just a few days prior to comp, deloaded, my eGFR was normal (~73), liver enzymes elevated just the tiniest bit, HDL high 20s and LDL like 130, but most interestingly fasting glucose was 91. And I had been blasting over 4 months and power bulking like I was a professional hot dog eater.

I had pushed up to 29% bodyfat on Inbody scan, waking up 265lbs going to bed at 270, and my fasting glucose was the same as it’s been historically for the last 10 years off blast. Usually with Mk677 at 5% lower bodyfat and even 20 less lbs bodyweight I would see 96-99.

100mg DHB and I was eating 5,000 calories to maintain 120kg bodyweight with a sedentary lifestyle besides training. Almost 6k to add any more weight.

The primary negative side effect was the strength of the drug: the nervous system activation. What gives strength also wires you up hard. More anxious, easily provoked, light switch temperament. I actually lowered the dose because my wife said I was definitively more aggressive and argumentative than any steroid cycle ever, and I absolutely did feel like a bomb in traffic or around people. Dropped back to 100mg and no personality problems at all, wife & I were much happier.

People don’t realize how potent it is; it’s worth 4-5x the mg of EQ in anabolism and it’s value in glucose lowering & learning/skill acquisition is very high. But too much will string you out, dialed up too hard. It’s a very potent stacking option, but someone trying to use more than 200mg would be better off driving other compounds up for more protein expression purposes.

 

[Smont]

Basically I wanna see if this stuff has worse bloodwork then tren ace or SD. Oddly enough, SD does not trash my bloods. But I still wouldn't want to use it for more than 4 weeks

@Smont did I tell you about my recent run with it?

My blast was something like 18-20 weeks, and I had DHB in it for probably 13-15. Would have to deep dive my log to be sure.

Anyway, a lot of the run was test/mast/DHB, then adding a cc of Deca for the last 10 weeks, and 4 weeks out from comp the Masteron was replaced with testosterone. Var last 6 weeks as well. Midway it was like 300 test, 200 deca, 350 mast, 150 DHB.

Final month was 750 test, 250 deca, 100 DHB, plus 50/day Var, & 15-20mg Mk677. The final 10 days pre comp shots ended & 50 Anadrol/day was added.

Bloods draw just a few days prior to comp, deloaded, my eGFR was normal (~73), liver enzymes elevated just the tiniest bit, HDL high 20s and LDL like 130, but most interestingly fasting glucose was 91. And I had been blasting over 4 months and power bulking like I was a professional hot dog eater.

I had pushed up to 29% bodyfat on Inbody scan, waking up 265lbs going to bed at 270, and my fasting glucose was the same as it’s been historically for the last 10 years off blast. Usually with Mk677 at 5% lower bodyfat and even 20 less lbs bodyweight I would see 96-99.

100mg DHB and I was eating 5,000 calories to maintain 120kg bodyweight with a sedentary lifestyle besides training. Almost 6k to add any more weight.

The primary negative side effect was the strength of the drug: the nervous system activation. What gives strength also wires you up hard. More anxious, easily provoked, light switch temperament. I actually lowered the dose because my wife said I was definitively more aggressive and argumentative than any steroid cycle ever, and I absolutely did feel like a bomb in traffic or around people. Dropped back to 100mg and no personality problems at all, wife & I were much happier.

People don’t realize how potent it is; it’s worth 4-5x the mg of EQ in anabolism and it’s value in glucose lowering & learning/skill acquisition is very high. But too much will string you out, dialed up too hard. It’s a very potent stacking option, but someone trying to use more than 200mg would be better off driving other compounds up for more protein expression purposes.

You had mentioned it but I didn't get any of these details, this is awesome I'm going to read this when I get home tonight thank you very much.

 

[Smont]

Don't mind the part above the quote, that wasn't even for you it was left in from something else I was going to post earlier lol

 

[Hyde]

You had mentioned it but I didn't get any of these details, this is awesome I'm going to read this when I get home tonight thank you very much.

I had 2 jugs from the same brewer, same 100mg/ml and allegedly same home batch.

The first bottle that I tried previously a couple years ago left deposits/welts that had to be broken up with heavy tissue work. I was always mixing with test.

This recent run, I again always mixed my DHB with at least equal volume of my other oils before injection and had some PIP again but never the welts. So I don’t understand why I didn’t have the deposits, but I will say I always only shot DHB once a week (it doesn’t aromatize).

If you get the welts, it will be hard to tolerate for a long run.

The bottles/oil stink obviously, I’m assuming it’s guaicol or whatever necessary solvent. But I had some of the best peak blast bloodwork I’ve ever seen, although I didn’t test C Reactive Protien specifically, just regular organ/blood markers from a CMP w CBC & Lipid.

 

[Danksta710]

@Smont did I tell you about my recent run with it?

My blast was something like 18-20 weeks, and I had DHB in it for probably 13-15. Would have to deep dive my log to be sure.

Anyway, a lot of the run was test/mast/DHB, then adding a cc of Deca for the last 10 weeks, and 4 weeks out from comp the Masteron was replaced with testosterone. Var last 6 weeks as well. Midway it was like 300 test, 200 deca, 350 mast, 150 DHB.

Final month was 750 test, 250 deca, 100 DHB, plus 50/day Var, & 15-20mg Mk677. The final 10 days pre comp shots ended & 50 Anadrol/day was added.

Bloods draw just a few days prior to comp, deloaded, my eGFR was normal (~73), liver enzymes elevated just the tiniest bit, HDL high 20s and LDL like 130, but most interestingly fasting glucose was 91. And I had been blasting over 4 months and power bulking like I was a professional hot dog eater.

I had pushed up to 29% bodyfat on Inbody scan, waking up 265lbs going to bed at 270, and my fasting glucose was the same as it’s been historically for the last 10 years off blast. Usually with Mk677 at 5% lower bodyfat and even 20 less lbs bodyweight I would see 96-99.

100mg DHB and I was eating 5,000 calories to maintain 120kg bodyweight with a sedentary lifestyle besides training. Almost 6k to add any more weight.

The primary negative side effect was the strength of the drug: the nervous system activation. What gives strength also wires you up hard. More anxious, easily provoked, light switch temperament. I actually lowered the dose because my wife said I was definitively more aggressive and argumentative than any steroid cycle ever, and I absolutely did feel like a bomb in traffic or around people. Dropped back to 100mg and no personality problems at all, wife & I were much happier.

People don’t realize how potent it is; it’s worth 4-5x the mg of EQ in anabolism and it’s value in glucose lowering & learning/skill acquisition is very high. But too much will string you out, dialed up too hard. It’s a very potent stacking option, but someone trying to use more than 200mg would be better off driving other compounds up for more protein expression purposes.

Great post, thx for the info. Glad you mentioned the nervous system activation. That was the only side effect I did not like. Felt like a god in the gym; edgy when in the real world. That is something to consider.

 

[Hyde]

Great post, thx for the info. Glad you mentioned the nervous system activation. That was the only side effect I did not like. Felt like a god in the gym; edgy when in the real world. That is something to consider.

In the thread where the Harry Potter guy only had 80lb dbs and couldn’t even use them for his home squat workout, and he said for his follow up cycle he was thinking about 400mg of Tren with 250mg DHB with his test, I almost lost it.

Can you just imagine the irate, insufferable, miserable simmering fury??? Having straight up amygdala-dominant primeval gator brain 24/7 to not even squat or bench 200lbs for work weights.

 

[SkRaw85]

In the thread where the Harry Potter guy only had 80lb dbs and couldn’t even use them for his home squat workout, and he said for his follow up cycle he was thinking about 400mg of Tren with 250mg DHB with his test, I almost lost it.

Can you just imagine the irate, insufferable, miserable simmering fury??? Having straight up amygdala-dominant primeval gator brain 24/7 to not even squat or bench 200lbs for work weights.

I missed this Harry Potter guy thread. Sounds fuggin sick!!!

 

[Jeremyk1]

I missed this Harry Potter guy thread. Sounds fuggin sick!!!

Oh man that was a good one. Dude got all pissy when someone said he should try to get to his gym and do barbell bench presses.