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Wife Has COVID-19

adults don't need the MMR vaccine if they have already had measles, mumps, rubela
 
mechka_grizli said:
Lemme also say I take ZERO issue with your anti mandate stance. I anti mandate as well, but im neither for the vax or against the vax. But I do take issue when you insist the virus only kills those who have 3-4 comorbidities
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the indiana state board of health said unvaccinated hoosiers make up 99% of hospitalizations for covid.
 
Yahoo News: Why COVID cases are surging in states with high vaccination rates — and what it means for the winter ahead.
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I guess we will see how the death rates turn out. I love the justification that the higher infection rates are due to the colder weather driving people inside???

Do people really believe this? What about last year when everyone was staying home and inside? Don't they even compare to their control???

Come on, man!
 
HIT4ME said:
Yahoo News: Why COVID cases are surging in states with high vaccination rates — and what it means for the winter ahead.
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I guess we will see how the death rates turn out. I love the justification that the higher infection rates are due to the colder weather driving people inside???

Do people really believe this? What about last year when everyone was staying home and inside? Don't they even compare to their control???

Come on, man!
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The sheeple will read it and go along with it. OBEY!!! lol
 
mechka_grizli said:
Lemme also say I take ZERO issue with your anti mandate stance. I anti mandate as well, but im neither for the vax or against the vax. But I do take issue when you insist the virus only kills those who have 3-4 comorbidities
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On average he said, then I confirmed, then you reconfirmed in a disagreeing way which was odd, and now you forgot again. On average. This isn’t controversial.
 
mechka_grizli said:
Lemme also say I take ZERO issue with your anti mandate stance. I anti mandate as well, but im neither for the vax or against the vax. But I do take issue when you insist the virus only kills those who have 3-4 comorbidities
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I said it kills people that have 3-4 comorbidities on average. Some have more. Some have none. Do you understand what 'on average' means? This is a fact, and easy to prove.

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In conclusion, our study shows that age and comorbidities are the most important determinants of death among COVID-19 patients. Hypertension and antihypertensive therapy on COVID do not affect the outcome of COVID-19, consistent with recent literature.Invalid Link Removed The CCI might represent a powerful screening to apply for ad admission in hospital after COVID-19 diagnosis, for the identification of those patients who are at higher risk of death.
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• The assumption that the healthy and the unhealthy have an equal chance of dying is clearly wrong. Those with comorbidity conditions are actually about 10.5 times as likely to die as those who are healthy
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The data on this is endless, and not up for debate. It's one of the few things we know with certainty, and it's been known since April 2020.
 
Here's an interesting article that gets to the point of risk very clearly:

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Using these adjusted figures, we calculate that the hospitalization rate for the vaccinated population is 0.01% (or 1 in 10,914), and the rate for unvaccinated adults is 0.89% (or 1 case in 112 people). In both cases, therefore, the correct answer is less than one percent, but the implied efficacy rate of vaccination is 99% at preventing hospitalizations. This is calculated as the hospitalization rate for the unvaccinated minus the hospitalization rate for the vaccinated, divided by the unvaccinated rate. In other words, it is the percentage decrease in hospitalization risk. This high rate of protection -- even against Delta -- is consistent with a recent article published in the Lancet, which reviewed large-scale empirical data from the United States and around the world.

Some may argue that patients may have been hospitalized as a result of COVID but not diagnosed as such. We think this is highly unlikely to result in significant downward bias in the rates of hospitalization risk since testing at hospitals became widespread after only a few weeks at the start of the pandemic, and the vast majority of hospitalizations would have occurred since May of 2020, given data on deaths, which are more comprehensively documented. Nonetheless, using various modeling assumptions, CDC epidemiologists estimate that the actual number of hospitalizations may be 1.8 times higher than the reported number. If these estimates are accurate, the true rate of hospitalization risk for the unvaccinated population is 1.6% and as high as 0.2% for the vaccinated population. In either case, the public's misunderstanding of risk is roughly just as inaccurate. One criticism of these inflated estimates is that they assume that many people were hospitalized while asymptomatically carrying the SARS-CoV-2 virus, leading to an undetected case. The problem with this reasoning is that it would count people admitted to the hospital for non-COVID reasons who coincidentally had an asymptomatic infection. These cases were correctly omitted from official statistics since the absence of symptoms cannot cause hospitalization.

A more serious limitation is that we count each admission from COVID-19 into a hospital as a unique person. In fact, we know from scholarly research that some patients are readmitted multiple times. One paper estimates that 9% of COVID-19 patients were readmitted to the hospital. This implies that, at minimum, our hospitalization estimates should be multiplied by 0.91 to capture only hospitalizations of unique individuals. Doing so would shrink both hospitalization risk estimates, and they would still both be well below 1%.
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The risk of HOSPITALIZATION (not death) from CV, vaxxed or unvaxxed, is less than 1% (and you have to get CV first, remember).

MANDATE EVERYTHING!
 
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This is just a modeling study, which isn't REALLY science, but it's the type of thing global warmers love. It seems to indicate (without saying it but you can look at the math) that the vaccine is probably less than 60% "effective"

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It also, however, is in lock-step with the lockdowns and implies that "non-pharmaceutical interventions" (Masks, lockdowns, etc) were/are needed.

I wish the vaccine was the answer. Bill Gates obviously does too. We need more work and less hubris to improve upon what we have.
 
poison said:
I said it kills people that have 3-4 comorbidities on average. Some have more. Some have none. Do you understand what 'on average' means? This is a fact, and easy to prove.

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The data on this is endless, and not up for debate. It's one of the few things we know with certainty, and it's been known since April 2020.
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So hypertension isn't a risk factor for covid anymore?!
 
poison said:
Here's an interesting article that gets to the point of risk very clearly:

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The risk of HOSPITALIZATION (not death) from CV, vaxxed or unvaxxed, is less than 1% (and you have to get CV first, remember).

MANDATE EVERYTHING!
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So according to this data, 1 out of approximately 11,000 vaccinated people that contract COVID end up hospitalized. On the other hand, 1 out of 112 unvaccinated people that contact COVID end up hospitalized.

I’m not one to look at data anymore, as I have been in the position to see reality with my own eyes for quite some time now. Nonetheless, I fail to see why you don’t see this data alone as being significant?
 
Ricky10 said:
So according to this data, 1 out of approximately 11,000 vaccinated people that contract COVID end up hospitalized. On the other hand, 1 out of 112 unvaccinated people that contact COVID end up hospitalized.

I’m not one to look at data anymore, as I have been in the position to see reality with my own eyes for quite some time now. Nonetheless, I fail to see why you don’t see this data alone as being significant?
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Their interpretation of the data is incomplete, and spreads risk evenly, which is disingenuous. I'd like to see that stratified by age and comorbidity. I'd also like to see how many are hospitalized FROM the vax itself.

Example: a coworker (a nurse) had covid and recovered with no issues. A month or 2 later, she got her first shot, and 3 weeks later her second. Within days of the second shot, she started experiencing chest/heart pain. She was waiting a couple weeks for a dr appt, but ended up going to the ER one night, it was so bad. She was admitted, and on the second day, said 'I never should have gotten that fucking shot'. Four days later she was released, and I overheard someone ask her if it was the shot; she said 'oh no, it was from my covid infection'. Two months later, and she's been experiencing fairly severe continuous arthritis symptoms, and was coughing up blood randomly to the point she had to go to the ER. They don't know what any of it is, but are 100% sure it's not the shot.

Obviously, it could be covid, or the shot, but logic dictates one is more likely than the other. The fact that any questioning of this brings an epic dog-piling and insistence that you're a flat-earther, anti-vaxxer, and want grandma to die doesn't make the vaccine more palatable to thinking people.
 
Ricky10 said:
So according to this data, 1 out of approximately 11,000 vaccinated people that contract COVID end up hospitalized. On the other hand, 1 out of 112 unvaccinated people that contact COVID end up hospitalized.

I’m not one to look at data anymore, as I have been in the position to see reality with my own eyes for quite some time now. Nonetheless, I fail to see why you don’t see this data alone as being significant?
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Yeah, if this data is being interpreted correctly it's showing <1% in vaccinated individuals - which again means you should get vaccinated if you are afraid of catching covid, and if you are not then don't. No mandate needed because the people who are vaccinated are pretty well protected so do whatever you want to do.

I still have a hard time believing this data, because it means that there has been a SERIOUS uptick in hospitalizations and deaths among the unvaccinated.

We know that a 100% unvaccinated, American population of 330,000,000, with no prior immunity dies at about 350,000/year. A death rate of 0.1%.

This year we have immunity + 60+% of the population vaccinated. That means that the unvaccinated population in America (<132,000,000 people) has lost 346,500 (99% of 350,000) this year - a death rate of 0.26%.

If we take this for what it says, can you imagine if the vaccines had not been put out? We would have lost almost 900,000 people this year alone - and the year isn't even over!!

More Americans would have died under Biden in one year than have died in combat in all wars combined.
 
HIT4ME said:
Yeah, if this data is being interpreted correctly it's showing <1% in vaccinated individuals - which again means you should get vaccinated if you are afraid of catching covid, and if you are not then don't. No mandate needed because the people who are vaccinated are pretty well protected so do whatever you want to do.

I still have a hard time believing this data, because it means that there has been a SERIOUS uptick in hospitalizations and deaths among the unvaccinated.

We know that a 100% unvaccinated, American population of 330,000,000, with no prior immunity dies at about 350,000/year. A death rate of 0.1%.

This year we have immunity + 60+% of the population vaccinated. That means that the unvaccinated population in America (<132,000,000 people) has lost 346,500 (99% of 350,000) this year - a death rate of 0.26%.

If we take this for what it says, can you imagine if the vaccines had not been put out? We would have lost almost 900,000 people this year alone - and the year isn't even over!!

More Americans would have died under Biden in one year than have died in combat in all wars combined.
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your theory is inaccurate--a 100% unvaccinated population with no natural immunity would not continue to die at that rate because of all of the survivors who would then have natural immunity-like my wife and I.
 
They also ignore that a large portion of the vaxxed are under the natural immunity umbrella, which boosts the appearance of effectiveness.
 
poison said:
They also ignore that a large portion of the vaxxed are under the natural immunity umbrella, which boosts the appearance of effectiveness.
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it is very, very difficult to include all the differing variables when applying statistics
 
poison said:
Their interpretation of the data is incomplete, and spreads risk evenly, which is disingenuous. I'd like to see that stratified by age and comorbidity. I'd also like to see how many are hospitalized FROM the vax itself.

Example: a coworker (a nurse) had covid and recovered with no issues. A month or 2 later, she got her first shot, and 3 weeks later her second. Within days of the second shot, she started experiencing chest/heart pain. She was waiting a couple weeks for a dr appt, but ended up going to the ER one night, it was so bad. She was admitted, and on the second day, said 'I never should have gotten that fucking shot'. Four days later she was released, and I overheard someone ask her if it was the shot; she said 'oh no, it was from my covid infection'. Two months later, and she's been experiencing fairly severe continuous arthritis symptoms, and was coughing up blood randomly to the point she had to go to the ER. They don't know what any of it is, but are 100% sure it's not the shot.

Obviously, it could be covid, or the shot, but logic dictates one is more likely than the other. The fact that any questioning of this brings an epic dog-piling and insistence that you're a flat-earther, anti-vaxxer, and want grandma to die doesn't make the vaccine more palatable to thinking people.
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Listen, I know that makes for a compelling story and I don’t doubt the sequence of events. However, this has been my more than arduous work life through the duration of the pandemic. At this point, there is absolutely nothing anyone can say or quote that trumps my first hand experience with treating the vaccinated vs unvaccinated.

There have surely been a few vaccinated outliers (very old/very sick at baseline) that have required my attention in the hospital, but it’s the unvaccinated landing themselves in critical care fighting for their lives and very often losing. We have only lost one vaccinated patient, and he looked like he had already died 10 years ago when he arrived.
 
poison said:
They also ignore that a large portion of the vaxxed are under the natural immunity umbrella, which boosts the appearance of effectiveness.
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i just want natural immunity to be recognized!!!
 
thebigt said:
your theory is inaccurate--a 100% unvaccinated population with no natural immunity would not continue to die at that rate because of all of the survivors who would then have natural immunity-like my wife and I.
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I was not intending to claim accuracy here, it's really a best case scenario. It assumes that the vaccinated people who ended up in the hospital died at the same rate as the unvaccinated people - since I only used 99% of the deaths this year. If the vaccine is effective and the death rate is less than 1% because that reflects hospitalizations and they died at a lower rate when vaccinated, then the 900,000 goes up.

Of course there is likely chance, like a lot of us are arguing, that the vaccine isn't quite as effective as is being proposed and that 1% isn't really accurate at all - in which case Biden looks a little bit better.

And that's why I pointed out that the beginning population/control group was without natural immunity - I was implying that it would have slowed the death rates.

poison said:
They also ignore that a large portion of the vaxxed are under the natural immunity umbrella, which boosts the appearance of effectiveness.
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Again, if the vaccine is less effective...then Biden looks a little better as fewer people would have died in this scenario without the vax.

thebigt said:
it is very, very difficult to include all the differing variables when applying statistics
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Agreed. Heck, I'm just saying that, if <1% of the hospitalizations (and I thus assume deaths) are in vaccinated individuals - without the vaccine the rate would have skyrocketed under Biden.

Kind of ironic when all Biden did was talk about how poorly Trump handled it, claim he had NO plan in place for it when Biden won the election, and then does just as poorly when Trump hands him 3 "highly effective" vaccines.

You really just can't make this crap up.
 
Speaking of compelling stories, there was a dude we had recently in his early 50’s with no prior medical history (including obesity) that had a relatively easy run with COVID in the early spring which didn’t require hospitalization. Despite this, he was looking to get vaccinated a few months ago. Before his vaccination date came up, he contracted COVID again and ended up on a ventilator for 5 weeks at our hospital and was unable to come off.

He finally got transferred to our largest hospital in the state to receive a tracheostomy after waiting 2 weeks due to a lack of beds. Last I knew, he was still on a ventilator via tracheostomy at that facility a week ago. I had to remove him from my patient list because I was no longer involved in his care, so I don’t know the end result but it’s likely not favorable. Either way, this is another incidence of real life most people won’t hear about.
 
over a 100 million Americans have had covid and survived.

natural immunity has to be factored in when compiling statistics or theorizing on effectiveness or lack of for vaccines.

of course the death rate is going to go down under biden considering 1 in 3 Americans had already had covid by august-and this is BEFORE factoring vaccines.
 
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thebigt said:
it is very, very difficult to include all the differing variables when applying statistics
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Sure. Having the humility to admit that is what's lacking from our fearless overlords. Everything is in absolutes, with people like Fauci admitting on camera that he lies/exaggerates to elicit a given response.

'masks prevent CV' or 'everyone must vax', as absolutes, are demonstrably false. Once you've said those things, despite knowing you're wrong, nothing else you say matters.
 
Ricky10 said:
Speaking of compelling stories, there was a dude we had recently in his early 50’s with no prior medical history (including obesity) that had a relatively easy run with COVID in the early spring which didn’t require hospitalization. Despite this, he was looking to get vaccinated a few months ago. Before his vaccination date came up, he contracted COVID again and ended up on a ventilator for 5 weeks at our hospital and was unable to come off.

He finally got transferred to our largest hospital in the state to receive a tracheostomy after waiting 2 weeks due to a lack of beds. Last I knew, he was still on a ventilator via tracheostomy at that facility a week ago. I had to remove him from my patient list because I was no longer involved in his care, so I don’t know the end result but it’s likely not favorable. Either way, this is another incidence of real life most people won’t hear about.
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what happened to those military field hospitals trump had in place?
 
thebigt said:
over a 100 million Americans have had covid and survived.

natural immunity has to be factored in when compiling statistics or theorizing on effectiveness or lack of for vaccines.

of course the death rate is going to go down under biden considering 1 in 3 Americans had already had covid by august.
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The death rate hasn't gone down. Among the unvaccinated, it's almost tripled apparently.
 
thebigt said:
i just want natural immunity to be recognized!!!
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I have always agreed with that. We have only seen 2 reinfections thus far amongst the unvaccinated. One of which I spoke of in the post above. The other lady had relatively uncomplicated runs both times. She just suffers from chronic shortness of breath now at baseline.
 
poison said:
Sure. Having the humility to admit that is what's lacking from our fearless overlords. Everything is in absolutes, with people like Fauci admitting on camera that he lies/exaggerates to elicit a given response.

'masks prevent CV' or 'everyone must vax', as absolutes, are demonstrably false. Once you've said those things, despite knowing you're wrong, nothing else you say matters.
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definitely not a fauci fan--he was preaching herd immunity and now doesn't recognize natural immunity as valid.

remember his original stance on wearing masks?
 
Ricky10 said:
Listen, I know that makes for a compelling story and I don’t doubt the sequence of events. However, this has been my more than arduous work life through the duration of the pandemic. At this point, there is absolutely nothing anyone can say or quote that trumps my first hand experience with treating the vaccinated vs unvaccinated.

There have surely been a few vaccinated outliers (very old/very sick at baseline) that have required my attention in the hospital, but it’s the unvaccinated landing themselves in critical care fighting for their lives and very often losing. We have only lost one vaccinated patient, and he looked like he had already died 10 years ago when he arrived.
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I've said before here: the elderly and at risk should probably vax. It does help prevent severe covid illness in those categories. Oddly enough, I only mentioned one example, above, but I personally know several more. I <KNOW> vax injuries are not being considered, and their possibility is being downplayed.
 
HIT4ME said:
The death rate hasn't gone down. Among the unvaccinated, it's almost tripled apparently.
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doesn't this make you wonder....you have 1 in 3 with natural immunity and another 6 in 10 fully vaccinated and the death rate has tripled?

i would think that many unvaccinated have natural immunity, but who knows?
 
thebigt said:
doesn't this make you wonder....you have 1 in 3 with natural immunity and another 6 in 10 fully vaccinated and the death rate has tripled?
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LOL, have you been reading my posts?

Even ignoring the natural immunity factor - IF the vaccine is as effective as they say and only 1% of the hospitalizations are in vaccinated individuals - that means we have seen a 2.6X increase in the rate of covid in the unvaccinated population. As you point out, that population (132,000,000) becomes even smaller if you remove the people with natural immunity, so the 346,500 deaths we have seen this year becomes an even larger percentage of the population...so if you contemplate what would have happened without the vaccines, the deaths become staggering.
 
Ricky10 said:
I have always agreed with that. We have only seen 2 reinfections thus far amongst the unvaccinated. One of which I spoke of in the post above. The other lady had relatively uncomplicated runs both times. She just suffers from chronic shortness of breath now at baseline.
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my wife seem just fine, no complaints and i ran a 7k 6 months after having covid at age 63. i run almost everyday, i try to get in at least one 5 mile run every week. i am doing a cycle right now and lifting moderately heavy 3-4 times a week--i feel great, doc says i am more fit than many patients 20 years younger. :)

we've been exposed several times and even got tested--nada
 
poison said:
They also ignore that a large portion of the vaxxed are under the natural immunity umbrella, which boosts the appearance of effectiveness.
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Very interesting/valid point I’ve not considered. I would love to see data for non previously infected vaccinated.
 
HIT4ME said:
LOL, have you been reading my posts?

Even ignoring the natural immunity factor - IF the vaccine is as effective as they say and only 1% of the hospitalizations are in vaccinated individuals - that means we have seen a 2.6X increase in the rate of covid in the unvaccinated population. As you point out, that population (132,000,000) becomes even smaller if you remove the people with natural immunity, so the 346,500 deaths we have seen this year becomes an even larger percentage of the population...so if you contemplate what would have happened without the vaccines, the deaths become staggering.
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how can you ignore the natural immunity factor if you don't know the statistic of how many unvaccinated have natural immunity---i am saying that for me the numbers don't add up. people keep giving statistics without complete data, imo.
 
THOR 70 said:
Very interesting/valid point I’ve not considered. I would love to see data for non previously infected vaccinated.
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i would love to see the data of how many unvaccinated have natural immunity...
 
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So,

-they say 67% of population is vaccinated
-cases are almost exclusively in unvaxxed population


If we operate under the premise that vaccines work, shouldn’t natural immunity meet VERY quickly with vaxxed immunity in the middle and cause heard immunity? Something just never adds up with propaganda pieces like this

For fvcks sake, this super contagious virus has been around for 2 years...shouldn’t it have ran it’s course by now!?
 
Ricky10 said:
I have always agreed with that. We have only seen 2 reinfections thus far amongst the unvaccinated. One of which I spoke of in the post above. The other lady had relatively uncomplicated runs both times. She just suffers from chronic shortness of breath now at baseline.
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do you happen to check vitamin levels on these people to be considered a comorbitiy?

like vitamin d deficiency
 
HIT4ME said:
LOL, have you been reading my posts?

Even ignoring the natural immunity factor - IF the vaccine is as effective as they say and only 1% of the hospitalizations are in vaccinated individuals - that means we have seen a 2.6X increase in the rate of covid in the unvaccinated population. As you point out, that population (132,000,000) becomes even smaller if you remove the people with natural immunity, so the 346,500 deaths we have seen this year becomes an even larger percentage of the population...so if you contemplate what would have happened without the vaccines, the deaths become staggering.
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You're calling a winner before the race is over. We are still mid pandemic, and we don't know the long term effects of the vax, both on overall health, and in immunity.
 
thebigt said:
how can you ignore the natural immunity factor if you don't know the statistic of how many unvaccinated have natural immunity---i am saying that for me the numbers don't add up. people keep giving statistics without complete data, imo.
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thebigt said:
i would love to see the data of how many unvaccinated have natural immunity...
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poison said:
You're calling a winner before the race is over. We are still mid pandemic, and we don't know the long term effects of the vax, both on overall health, and in immunity.
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I am not sure what you guys are missing here???? Of all the people in this thread who should be agreeing with the above....it's you two. Guess you don't really like your own arguments?

Try re-reading the posts maybe?
 
HIT4ME said:
I am not sure what you guys are missing here???? Of all the people in this thread who should be agreeing with the above....it's you two. Guess you don't really like your own arguments?

Try re-reading the posts maybe?
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1 in 3 have natural immunity
over 60% are fully vaccinated
people should not be dying at the rate you listed, imo.
 
thebigt said:
1 in 3 have natural immunity
over 60% are fully vaccinated
people should not be dying at the rate you listed, imo.
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Well, yeah...that is part of the point.

If you want to believe the article that Poison posted, the vaccine is so effective that barely anyone with it is getting hospitalized. If you believe that, it looks pretty bad for guys like Biden. Handed a wildly successful vaccine, he has a death rate that is as high as the death rate under Trump.

Even if you ignore 3-4 factors that skew the numbers further against Biden, such as natural immunity, the death count without the vaccines, again If you believe what Poison posted, is tremendous.

Said another way...during 2020 when all of the factors should have caused increased death rates, we saw around 1/3 of the deaths per unvaccinated person that the article is suggesting we are seeing today in the unvaccinated population...since we only have 40% of the population as the denominator and we still saw a similar # of deaths overall (more actually at over 350,000).

Basically if you skew everything in favor of the liberals you end up with a situation where they have really screwed people, and if not for the luck of a wildly successful vaccine they would have almost 1M dead Americans on their hands.

Now, I question the efficacy of the vaccine...as has been said ad nauseum above, but if I am right, it looks better for Biden.

For instance, if Biden was handed a 100% ineffective vaccine...well, then he had similar results to last year while also opening the country but his success is still softened by the point of natural immunity and improvements in treatment.

Just saying, if someone wants to believe the vaccine is so effective, they should probably be pretty critical of Biden.
 
58.5% of the American population has been FULLY vaccinated
33.3% of the American population has had covid=natural immunity
24% of the American population is under the age of 18

given the FACT that very few under the age of 18 die from covid. and given the fact that even CDC acknowledges that natural immunity is 95% effective for at least 8 months, then unless a very, very high percentage of previously infected persons have gotten vaccinated the high death rate numbers makes no sense to me.

can anyone tell me the percentage of those who have had covid AND are fully vaccinated?
 
No they can't, and that's not accidental, that's intentional. Those kinds of facts get in the way of making money.
 
poison said:
No they can't, and that's not accidental, that's intentional. Those kinds of facts get in the way of making money.
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just saying a person is 11 times more likely to die if unvaccinated is factually inaccurate if including previously infected persons in this category, imo.
 
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