why is 3:1 the perfect ratio of Epiandrosterone to androsterone?
- Thread starter markam04
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delsolrob
Board Sponsor
This was based on empirical evidence from the primordial performance days - the original androhard v3 was insanely popular due to the balance of the effects of androsterone and epiandro.
High doses of Androsterone are known to cause some lethargy, but offer a cool and calming effect. while epiandrosterone is quite the opposite, high doses are associated with anxiety and aggression. at the 3:1 ratio of epiandro to androsterone we seemed to harness the best of both worlds, and avoid the side effects associated with each compound
High doses of Androsterone are known to cause some lethargy, but offer a cool and calming effect. while epiandrosterone is quite the opposite, high doses are associated with anxiety and aggression. at the 3:1 ratio of epiandro to androsterone we seemed to harness the best of both worlds, and avoid the side effects associated with each compound
markam04
New member
Thanks for that. In that case it would seem that Ultra Epi would be the choice to stack with products that include Androsterone, such as Ultra Seven and Alpha Four.
cheftepesh1
Well-known member
Yes. If you can still find alpha four.
thebigt
Legend
ultra epi would stack great with ALPHA seven---i will have to try this.
Hypnotic traveling
Member
I used ultraepi last winter @ 5 pumps per day and it crushed my estrogen. After I picked up dermacrine things improved quite a bit. I enjoyed the 8 week cycle and was wondering if ultraepi crushed my estrogen is it likely that ultra hard would as well? I ask bc I saw you mentioned that the combination of the compounds can help reduce side effects.
markam04
New member
I have used Ultra Epi, Alpha seven and Dermacrine together and it's a very nice stack, but I do prefer Ultra Hard to Ultra Epi.
thebigt
Legend
markam04
New member
always good to have option-eh?
glad to see you enjoying the products!!!
Absolutely!
I ‘discovered’ Dermacrine a bit before Primordial Performance released the Andro capsules, it’s great to be able to get some of these products from Iconic. I can’t remember the exact ingredients in Androdrive, but i particularly liked that product. Shame that Icon and Alpha Four are now discontinued, but I’ve managed to get some, anyway. Any new products in the pipeline?
thebigt
Legend
markam04
New member
I do find that surprising, I understood that Ultra Epi / Ultra Hard didn't increase or decrease existing oestrogen levels; Ive never experienced any adverse effects from those products, but I do run them with Dermacrine for the 'feel good' factor. On the other hand, Arimistane at 75mg becomes intolerably painful, but ok at 50mgs for me.
thebigt
Legend
just curious if you are basing this on 'feel' or blood test?
i have pretty much the same reaction on 75mg arimistane but 50 or under i'm ok.
markam04
New member
No, didn't do a blood test, I was only running very light stuff, but you may be replying to Hypnotic Traveller who said UltraEpi 'crushed' his oestrogen.
thebigt
Legend
no i was replying to your post saying ultrahard/ultra epi had no effect on your oestrogen level?
i think it might have to do with individual reaction and the level at time of starting-his level could have been on the low side and yours could have been on the high side--since no bloods were done no way of telling?
markam04
New member
Ok, understood.
Hypnotic traveling
Member
In regards to estrogen suppression, I find that even OTC AI (inhibit E, true shred, and pine pollen tincture) at low doses crushes my libido and induces lethargy. I suspect my estrogen levels run naturally low and anything that dries me out seems to induce libido loss and lethargy. I could be wrong, as it’s anecdotal, but that’s how it seems.
thebigt
Legend
this is what i suspected...thanks for clarifying!!!
delsolrob
Board Sponsor
Androdrive was just a mixture of DHEA and Pregnenolone - this is part of the reason we made the Neuro Drive stack, at .75ml per day of each Neuro DHEA and Neuro P5 is basically the same profile as AndroDrive.
markam04
New member
Thanks, that’s good to know. So basically the ratio of Pregnenolone is much higher than in Dermacrine.
KvanH
Well-known member
I'm allways planning way ahead, cause' you know, you can only run hormonal products so often. And my plan for future - probably the fall of 2022 - is to do a light run of Ultra Epi + Alpha seven. Haven't tried either one yet thus far, but am familiar with all the ingridients, via Ultra Hard and Stano Plex etc. Planning on doing A7 for 2 weeks -> UE for 2 weeks -> both stacked for 4 weeks, to see how they are individually and stacked together. Should be fun times = ) Probaly best to have Dermacrine or some type of 4-Andro product on hand for possible low E issues.
thebigt
Legend
let us know how this turns out...
i'm currently running A4 and UH so it will be awhile before i get to the A7 and UE combo, but yeah i would probably add dermacrine to it.
KvanH
Well-known member
Well that isn't that surprising really. Both Androsterone and Epiandrosterone convert to DHT and DHT binds to the same receptors as oestrogens, so it basically replaces E on some of the receptors. And aromataze entsyme (which converts T to E) has a high binding affinity to DHT, so high DHT levels lead to less aromatising of T to E.
Although; SHBG also has a high binding affinity to DHT, and thus high DHT levels lead to more free T, which can then be converted to oestrogens and the SHBG isn't binding as much to E either.
Anyway the overall effect of DHT is more on the antiestrogenic side and many times DHT - and derivatives of - are used as antiestrogenic compounds (think Proviron, Masteron, etc.)
To sum it up just in case; Androsterone and Epiandro are antiestrogenic compounds. To what degree, depends on dosing and individual response. Usually not to the extent of to be worried about crushing your E, but can be used for benefit on E control and something to keep in mind.
KvanH
Well-known member
UH makes me feel gooood = )
thebigt
Legend
AndroRage
Well-known member
I tried to inbox you but it won’t allow. I can see from your posts your ran D-Plex a few years back, how did your run go? Thanks!
markam04
New member
That's quite a while ago! Anyway, I found D-Plex similar to Stano but much stronger. I don't believe it is that toxic compared to something like Msten but it is methylated, so Tudca would be advisable, imo. It's great for energy, and generally gives you a 'boost', although I wouldn't say it's a particularly great muscle builder, but I enjoyed running it and it would stack very nicely with Dermacrine, imo.
thebigt
Legend
AndroRage
Well-known member
I have D-Plex, Epistane, Alpha Four, Alpha Seven and Ultra Hard. Thinking Epi first and trying to find ways to avoid possible lethargy which I think I have gotten previously
thebigt
Legend
good luck!!!
markam04
New member
From what you have, I’d use Alpha Four to mitigate any lethargy, you might only need a couple of pumps a day. Recently I ran Aplha Seven and later added low dose Dermacrine which definitely enhanced things. Now that I’ve ran a few cycles, I always use Dermacrine and will be using Alpha Four next time. Good luck.
AndroRage
Well-known member
Cheers
How was run with Alpha Seven, specifically the Androsterone? Any notable difference to Epi Andro?
markam04
New member
If your cutting, Alpha Seven has the edge, and between Ultra Epi and Ultra Hard, I prefer Ultra Hard. You could add some Ultra Epi in with Ultra Seven to get the same ratio as Ultra Hard (which I've done), but I prefer Androsterone anyway, so I would just buy Ultra Hard. I really like these products, good results with little downside, especially compared to 'the other stuff', imo.
BTW, I've incorporated Thermoamp and I've finally managed to get my weight down. I wasn't fat, but due to joint pain, I have gone from 212lbs (highest 220lbs) down to 183lbs. I intend to cut a little more, then bulk to 190lbs
It's nice being lighter!FYI I eat two meals a day, low GI carbs only in the first meal and no carbs in the 2nd meal. I do 'slip' sometimes, but at least I have a clear plan of what to do afterwards.
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thebigt
Legend
congrats!!!If your cutting, Alpha Seven has the edge, and between Ultra Epi and Ultra Hard, I prefer Ultra Hard. You could add some Ultra Epi in with Ultra Seven to get the same ratio as Ultra Hard (which I've done), but I prefer Androsterone anyway, so I would just buy Ultra Hard. I really like these products, good results with little downside, especially compared to 'the other stuff', imo.
BTW, I've incorporated Thermoamp and I've finally managed to get my weight down. I wasn't fat, but due to joint pain, I have gone from 212lbs (highest 220lbs) down to 183lbs. I intend to cut a little more, then bulk to 190lbs
FYI I eat two meals a day, low GI carbs only in the first meal and no carbs in the 2nd meal. I do 'slip' sometimes, but at least I have a clear plan of what to do afterwards.
AndroRage
Well-known member
If your cutting, Alpha Seven has the edge, and between Ultra Epi and Ultra Hard, I prefer Ultra Hard. You could add some Ultra Epi in with Ultra Seven to get the same ratio as Ultra Hard (which I've done), but I prefer Androsterone anyway, so I would just buy Ultra Hard. I really like these products, good results with little downside, especially compared to 'the other stuff', imo.
BTW, I've incorporated Thermoamp and I've finally managed to get my weight down. I wasn't fat, but due to joint pain, I have gone from 212lbs (highest 220lbs) down to 183lbs. I intend to cut a little more, then bulk to 190lbs
FYI I eat two meals a day, low GI carbs only in the first meal and no carbs in the 2nd meal. I do 'slip' sometimes, but at least I have a clear plan of what to do afterwards.
What about Alpha Seven vs Ultra Hard? I ask as you said you ‘Ultra Seven’. I have both and will do a month of each and see which I like more.
thebigt
Legend
markam04
New member
I guess Im getting my Alphas and Ultras mixed up! I recommend that you research the ingredients of each product. As Alpha 7 contains 7-keto which is a thermogenic, its more suitable for cutting, but both products could be used for cutting.
KvanH
Well-known member
Should work great together.
markam04
New member
I’d run IconOne with either Alpha Four (preferably), or Dermacrine as a test base to combat any Lethargy. You could add in UltraEpi in the 5th week.
thebigt
Legend
KvanH
Well-known member
Not disagreeing with you, as these are many times user dependant and comes down to preference. But I personally would prefer Ultra Epi added to Icon One, as Icon One has DHEA and Pregnenolone in it already (main ingridients in Derma), so the Epiandro would add a DHT compound that it doesn't have and if estrogen is addressed, like it is with the DHEA and Preg, then Epiandro would address the lethargy better, than more DHEA, as Epiandro is known to increase energy.
Just my point of view.
A4 would be a good addition aswell (like you said), since it has Androsterone to go with. And so Ultra Hard would be a good option aswell. The Black series is petty damn fun with all the stacking options!
I'm also giving weight to the fact, that Legacykid already has Icon One and Ultra Epi.Edit: Okey just read again and realized you said to add A4 or Derma in addition to UE. Anyway if not very susceptible to 1-Andro induced lethargy (I don't seem to be for example), then no 'need' to add Derma imo.
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shockrock3
Well-known member
I'm using 8 pumps of Ultra Epi....was wondering my anxiety was kicking in more than usual, some good info here.
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thebigt
Legend
that is a hefty dose.