rob112
Well-known member
Plus the drummer already had Covid on top of that.
Redcon1 pulls out of the Arnold cause he's a commie!!
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Plus the drummer already had Covid on top of that.
THOR 70
Well-known member
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Does that help you understand? You have the weakest stance in here.
Carnivorecon
Well-known member
I'm going to the Arnold sports fest in october, literally everything is an extra, it costs hundreds to meet any of the personalities there, some of whom I've never even heard of, of how much money is enough? Inagine having hundreds of millions and want £300 off someone to get a pic with you. If my girlfriend hadn't got us tickets as a present i would never have bought them myself. I will report here if he's screwing his freedoms or not at the festival, thats if i can get within a mile of him for freeLet’s bring this back around to the main topic …Where the fuk is this clowns mask
(This is a current photo/post)
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. P.s even the q&a's and bodybuilding shows are an extra! For perspective when i went to bodypower we met the athletes, watched the shows, got my picture took with loads of personalities, even met one of my fave bb'ers as a teen, you all remember Ernie Taylor? Saw the guy spitting game to some fitness chick, he still looked impressive too the tris were hangin of his arms. It was all included not a cynical cash grab like the arnold
nostrum420
Well-known member
I imagine in a case like you're describing it should be possible to get the equivalent of a Dr's note that just says you have a medical exemption but doesn't state why. This *could* lead to people forging these or paying off corupt doctors, etc. but I think it would be a reasonable compromise even if it did lead to a few people cheating because they just don't wanna get the ouchie.
nostrum420
Well-known member
I think you could argue almost all government actions are enforced through some form of coercion, though. For example "I want to cross the street wherever is most convenient for me but I'm coerced into using crosswalks."
rob112
Well-known member
This is where I know I’ll have 99% of people disagree with me, but I believe you are spot on here Nostrum. The government has a monopoly on force in a given territory.
It took me years to come to some of my more uncommon positions with conviction; I totally get and accept most people will not agree. I will say I am encouraged by so many not trusting corporate media and the government these days. Baby steps
THOR 70
Well-known member
Interesting example that does technically display gov over reach. Exception is if the local the community has agreed on these rules and enforce them. The gov is drunk on this power and now using people’s ability to provide food/shelter/water for themselves as coercion to get an experimental gene therapy. Soon you will have to show your papers to step foot on the side walk of that street you mentioned.
Don’t think it’s coming to that? The sheep are already embracing it. Or should I say lambs(tho their slaughter?) I was at dinner last night and the group wanted to go for drinks after and they were literally talking about how where they could and couldn’t go if everyone didn’t have their proof of vaccine. Basically it’s already be conditioned into us to openly disclose our medical conditions/status in order to be in a group of people, or go to a specific location. Insanity and the most blatant slippery slope ever put before us.
rob112
Well-known member
Consent is a big deal. That’s why I personally believe any utopian idea does not scale up because not everyone agrees. If there is no agreement there is only force.
nostrum420
Well-known member
This is where I know I’ll have 99% of people disagree with me, but I believe you are spot on here Nostrum. The government has a monopoly on force in a given territory.
It took me years to come to some of my more uncommon positions with conviction; I totally get and accept most people will not agree. I will say I am encouraged by so many not trusting corporate media and the government these days. Baby steps
So, you're advocating for feudalism or tribalism?
THOR 70
Well-known member
Anarchism, by part of its definition sounds nice. Of course this would require immense responsibility and moral conviction by individuals which I doubt is possible without a drastic change in our direction.
Anarchism:
The theory or doctrine that all forms of government are oppressive and undesirable and should be abolished.
n. Rejection of all forms of coercive control and authority.
rob112
Well-known member
Not exactly. It is also not something I can explain without walls of text. Essentially I believe many things could be improved with competition.
One example would be the massive levels of forfeiture that police practice across the country where they take property without even having to bring the victim to trial. They make millions off of theft at a level the mob could only dream of. The only way to get the property back is to spend tons of money to fight to get it back. Usually the fight will cost as much as the items taken.
With competition similar to an insurance agency you could opt out of funding this corruption. As of now you are forced to give money towards this theft.
The toughest issues are kids and military. Granted many are not happy with the current system of foster care or our nation building world police that we pay for.
Everyone understands for example that it can be ugly if we try to make the Middle East live how we want them to; we need to take it further for example Alabama does not want to be New York or vice Versa. I morally do not feel comfortable to tell anyone how to live their life so long as they do not damage property or commit violence.
Unfortunately many people are not like me and want to tell other people how to live their lives.
rob112
Well-known member
Not exactly. It is also not something I can explain without walls of text. Essentially I believe many things could be improved with competition.
One example would be the massive levels of forfeiture that police practice across the country where they take property without even having to bring the victim to trial. They make millions off of theft at a level the mob could only dream of. The only way to get the property back is to spend tons of money to fight to get it back. Usually the fight will cost as much as the items taken.
With competition similar to an insurance agency you could opt out of funding this corruption. As of now you are forced to give money towards this theft.
The toughest issues are kids and military. Granted many are not happy with the current system of foster care or our nation building world police that we pay for.
Everyone understands for example that it can be ugly if we try to make the Middle East live how we want them to; we need to take it further for example Alabama does not want to be New York or vice Versa. I morally do not feel comfortable to tell anyone how to live their life so long as they do not damage property or commit violence.
Unfortunately many people are not like me and want to tell other people how to live their lives.
nostrum420
Well-known member
People will immediately self organize into small tribes, IMO.
nostrum420
Well-known member
What do you suppose happens when these private police forces have a dispute over jurisdiction?
nostrum420
Well-known member
I think the latter part of your argument basically calls for the dissolution of the United States as an empire and going back to a system where each state acts as a nation state as opposed to acting more like provinces as we do now.
This is where I think you'd see a lot of the States that rely the most on Federal aid start to get very progressive very quickly. That being said as a resident of state that net exports tax money to help some people get their pants on in the morning and then having those same people say we're to blame for all their problems, your idea has its temptations.
My biggest issue is what stops the almost non-stop wars you get in places like Europe or Africa that have a similar set up with many relatively small nation states sharing a landmass?
rob112
Well-known member
It could potentially lead to something similar, albeit much smaller in scale to what happens when say we want oil and opiates. Not good, but it is a self detonating argument to me. Just because we don’t see the blood shed we cause does not make it less evil or more acceptable to me personally.
rob112
Well-known member
You’re right I have concerns. They just don’t out weigh my current concerns.
If our government was just helping people I would not even pay attention to politics I used to not. You should look into what we fund and see if you can say with a straight face our government is some purely benevolent entity. The amount of evidence pointing to it not being is overwhelming in my eyes.
Also I don’t think a scale back would just happen. It would likely if it ever did happen slowly to assess.
In my opinion the best case scenario for a government is a necessary evil that protects people and property. That’s the best case. We are absolutely not that.
I gotta get to work so I won’t be able to give much response for awhile if you have questions on where I am coming from. I just have to stress it took me years and tons of reading to get to this point. People like Lysander spooner, Hans-Herman hoppe, Ludwig con Mises, F. A. Hayak, Murray Rothbard, Orwell, Huxley, etc etc.
nostrum420
Well-known member
No, I hear you. I agree that governments tend to be evil but I just don't know that I agree that many small ones vying for advantage over one another is any better for the citizenry than a single bloated and necrotic one having too many adventures abroad.
thebigt
Legend
speaking of fake cards-i found this article more than a little ironic..
'Feds seize over 3,000 fake covid vaccination cards in anchorage, alaska'
they were found in cargo sent from CHINA
can't make this **** up!!!
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mechka_grizli
Well-known member
Don't read too much into this. I ship ALL over the world and chinese suppliers will make ANYTHING you ask them too as U.S. regulations aren't so strongly enforced. What more likely happened is someone from the U.S. had those made and were trying to import them to sell for profit. Going rate in Atlanta is $100 for a card
thebigt
Legend
simple possession of 1 forged covid card is a FEDERAL CRIME and the FBI has said they will 'ENFORCE DILIGENTLY'.
if a drug dealer gets busted he is out the same day...for risk versus reward only a moron would deal in forged covid cards.
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mechka_grizli
Well-known member
Oh no I completely agree with you, but there are PLENTY of morons out here. There are plenty of (and this is NOT a dig at anyone) conservative boards that post about it, as well as its all over millennial social media
emiliozapata
Active member
you should stop it already fella, you are looking like a real prick in this thread
thebigt
Legend
the one thing i know for certain about fake covid cards is that i won't be involved in ANY way.
rob112
Well-known member
Yep. Would rather face the authority with some moral high ground for my own well being.
nostrum420
Well-known member
It's been the honor system pretty much everywhere I've been.
Connecticut's wierd.
Edit: subtract the pretty much. I literally have not been asked to prove that I was vaccinated once.
Connecticut's wierd.
Edit: subtract the pretty much. I literally have not been asked to prove that I was vaccinated once.
rob112
Well-known member
It seems mostly big cities to start. I live right between Philly and Trenton and lots of jobs are asking for it but not all. Businesses I think will hold off asking customers until forced because they were already hit so hard last year. Most businesses don’t even enforce masks here Bc they stopped wanting their employees to be put in confrontational situations.
Unfortunately many people don’t realize the 19 year old telling you about the mask rule did not make the rule.
Quinn'sDad
New member
Same where I live. Although our governor here in NM mandated masks be worn indoors, no one is really enforcing the mandates where I live. At least, not yet. Albuquerque and Santa Fe are different stories from what I understand, but, they are far removed from the rest of the state and far-left leaning. The rest of the state is pretty much live and let live, f**k the authoritarianism.
And the hospital here is trying to figure out what to do because all employees have been mandated (governors order) to be vaccinated. They'll lose over half their employees if they enforce, as word is a mass walk-out is planned in the event of a follow through on said order.
Convenience stores, grocery stores, and restaurants have signs on the doors to mask up; however, less than half the people inside wear them and no one bats an eye at those of us who don't comply. People around here are fed up. Even our mayor, police chief, and county sheriff said they won't enforce unless a business expressly calls on them.
thebigt
Legend
here where i live in southern indiana stores are packed and i only see a handful wearing masks, sign at entrance of most stores just says masks are recommended. we have very few cases in the county right now and people are just living their lives.
Quinn'sDad
New member
It's a virus. We never, as a collective whole, responded this way to colds, flu, swine, zeka, west nile, avian... Viruses never go away, we adapt and build immunity. God gave us an immune system for a reason. Just like our bodies - neglect exercise and reap what you sew. We need to challenge our immune system.
Nac
Well-known member
Quinn'sDad
New member
thebigt
Legend
well said...kind of reminds me of when i 1st joined AA and they talked about turning my life over to a higher power, not necessarily GOD.
personally i chose GOD...and it has worked well for me--over 20 years of sobriety!!!
Jiigzz
Legend
In Australia they absolutely are NOT going door to door jabbing people. What you have seen on Social Media is an edited video. Pure and simple misinformation tactic, just so you know.
There would be absolute outrage if that were to happen.
Just to clear that up - you can't trust everything you read on the internet
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kisaj
Legend
This is my family's stance and we are essentially apolitical. Could not care less about a side, but I don't like being forced to do anything and then guilted into it.
I know I am pages late on this, but came in to agree.
johnsar
New member
Exactly....Its an operating system. To this day they've never isolated this deadly virus...so does it exist? You surely cant make a vaccine without isolating it.. And funny how they don't list the ingredients .
Nac
Well-known member
What on earth are you talking about? SARS-CoV-2 genomic sequence is known, its particle structure is known. It's how they identified the Spike protein which initially attaches to ACE2 cells and why the S-protein is used in Vax like Pfizers Cominarty. The virus' relation to previous Sars wouldn't be known otherwise, either.
Ingredients? They also couldn't test for Covid in sewage if the "ingredients" weren't known. Or maybe you think this testing is full of sh1t...
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Jiigzz
Legend
Kronic
Well-known member
can we stop pretending this vaccine is the same as the ones we get as a kid. you really gonna keep getting these shots every 6 months? you don't even need to get flu shots that often and we don't call that a vaccine.
this whole thing is bananas because of the duration of protection. you gonna renew your "vaccine" passport every 6 months that is based on a virus model that is years old and doesn't even exist anymore?
Nac
Well-known member
I'd like to think I trust, not have faith, in the scientific method. I'd also trust that we have most certainly not seen the end of covid Vax R&D. Meaning, "better" Vax will continue to be developed with the ideal that we get to a point in the future where there *is* no need for repetitively re-Vaxxing, at least beyond what we might currently do with the usual regular seasonal viruses.
Kronic
Well-known member
the scientific method points to this vaccine being not a great option. the public blind faith in these vaccines and refusal to talk about alternatives is not science.
we are about to have half the world carrying something called a "vaccine passport" (which is usually proof of immunity) while not actually being immune to the virus.
Nac
Well-known member
There is good empirical evidence indicating that using the Spike protein (in some vax) as an initial method is sound, based on what is known about this specific virus and the behavior of viruses in general. But hey at the end of the day you will be injecting "part" of the virus by taking the Vax, functionally speaking at least.
Sure, but the general public are not scientists. I accept it will be debatable as to whether the general publics attitude to Vaxxing is a faith based one vs trust.
Kronic
Well-known member
scientists and doctors who question the covid vaccines or promote alternative treatments are literally banned from all social media platforms, even when it's impossible for anyone to know if they are right. if you want to subscribe to the treatment that YouTube and fauci agree on that week, then go ahead but don't call that the scientific method
Nac
Well-known member
Science, proper science, isn't typically conducted via social media. It's done partly via the kinds of papers and publications we see re-posted in other threads, like the one Poison posted re Vax effectiveness being called into question. Social media's banning of alternative treatment discussion has nothing to do with the scientific method, so your point here is pretty much a straw man. The scientific method requires peer review.
Take your own advice man. Look at pubmed or googlescholar as evidence of proper scientific method vs social media agendaring. You'll find hypotheses and preliminary studies on "alternative" treatments such as NAC, and ARBs, and ACE inhibitors. You'll find peer reviews of hypotheses that the Vax can potentially be more harmful. Science encourages dissenting views. There's no progress without it.
Jiigzz
Legend
Thus is very important, even outside the Vax debate. How many Docs do you see on infomercials pushing bogus products? How many TV docs do you see called into question over their views, I.e. Dr. Oz? In nutrition, Docs who push things like keto or low carb diets like Jason Fung are called out all the time for misrepresenting the data to back whatever they are selling. It's life. And being 'woke relies on more than just blindly following the advice of 1 doctor on the internet. People LIKE to go against the grain, because it makes them feel like they know someone the rest of the world doesn't.
There are also a lot of people on this forum who don't trust their GPs to give sound advice re: endocrinology, and seek endocrinologists for that very aspect of their life. How many times do people seek second opinions for diagnoses and get diagnosed something else entirely by another doc?
I've seen a lot of social media posts of Docs giving opposing views on the vaccine, but NONE of the ones I've seen have actually produced data backing that stance. They rely on their credentials to get people to believe their opinion.
THOR 70
Well-known member
Well, to play devils advocate, humanity has used social circles and anecdotes to discover therapeutics since the beginning of time. Are we now to addicted to worshiping science that we don’t listen to our fellow man? Or only what the billion dollar corporations tell us is best for us? Its common knowledge that studies can have major conflicts of interest. The data on Ivermectin(meta analysis!) and Hydroxychloroquine are very good...yet they have been suppressed for sure.
There is truth and false info on both sides in my opinion. But yeah follow the $$$
Nac
Well-known member
Sure, science is fallible or imperfect in the sense that it is, after all, conducted by humans that are, well, human, all too human.
As a method for understanding the empirical world, it's the best method humans have evolved. And I'd agree with any claim that it has its roots in the oral tradition, shamanism, Oracles, witch doctors, etc. But this is one fundamental area where science divurged from religion: knowledge now wasn't the sole domain of one special member of the tribe/community, who was the authoritarian that couldn't be questioned. Science can be done by anyone. The key is that it is empirical, and/or can be measured or quantified...and that anyone else has the opportunity to propose alternative hypotheses.
That certain paradigms are seen as sacrosanct and non negotiable is an artifact of the humans who practice science, as Kuhn mightve said. Science itself, as an endeavor, is not the weakness.