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Redcon1 pulls out of the Arnold cause he's a commie!!

I just feel a lot of people got convinced that America is a place where you could always do whatever you wanted. Vaccine mandates date back decades. The employees don’t have a choice and never had, except to seek other employment. Not sure why that would be Biden’s fault (even trumpty dumpty got booed off stage promoting the vaccine)
 
N2ofusion said:
It’s really within the power of workplaces to mandate it. Let’s talk freedom, then. Freedom of a private company to enforce the rules they wish. Shouldn’t that be the default conservative “Club for Growth” tea party position? And state ran university, they should not have the federal government interfering in their red state utopia right?
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i believe a company should have a lot of freedom but the EEOC has a lot of rules a company has to live with...mandating something as invasive as sticking a needle full of what was originally termed a experimental drug is not something i think a company should be able to mandate as condition of employment...

i would be against the company you work for mandating that you have to wear a trump 2024 hat...and i am sure the EEOC would be also!!!
 
thebigt said:
i believe a company should have a lot of freedom but the EEOC has a lot of rules a company has to live with...mandating something as invasive as sticking a needle full of what was originally termed a experimental drug is not something i think a company should be able to mandate as condition of employment...

i would be against the company you work for mandating that you have to wear a trump 2024 hat...and i am sure the EEOC would be also!!!
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You even said it the EEOC said it's a business right to decide if they want there employees to vaccinated how is that mandating the vaccine. If people want to work and not get vaccinated they can go move to a new job that doesn't require it.
 
sepulvd said:
You even said it the EEOC said it's a business right to decide if they want there employees to vaccinated how is that mandating the vaccine. If people want to work and not get vaccinated they can go move to a new job that doesn't require it.
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POWER TO THE PEOPLE-eh?
 
I actually think Total War is a great Pre-Workout that’s very easy to get a hold of. I love Gorilla Mode but seems like it’s always sold out.
 
sepulvd said:
It's is. The owner decides that he wants his employees vaccinated and its employee right not to but don't bitch and cry when you get fired
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then if in a few years serious side effects from covid vaccines show up is owner responsible?


btw-i'm retired. :)
 
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so-the question becomes...if a employer mandates employees to get a covid vaccine is that employer responsible if several years after getting the vaccine a employee suffers serious illness due to covid vaccine, even if that person is no longer employed by the employer who mandated the vaccine?

who is going to be responsible if people start getting sick from covid vaccines?
 
thebigt said:
you would think the government would make them refund ticket money? no matter what side of the fence EVERYONE should be against this---people don't realize that if they agree to let the government take away one freedom today, the next time it just might be a freedom they care about.

it isn't even about vaccines/masks, it's become a control/power issue.
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This doesnt make sense. They didnt say everyone needed to be vaccinated, they said everyone needs to be tested. You can't honestly be saying you have a problem with making sure no one walking around actively infected is at the event.
 
N2ofusion said:
I just feel a lot of people got convinced that America is a place where you could always do whatever you wanted. Vaccine mandates date back decades. The employees don’t have a choice and never had, except to seek other employment. Not sure why that would be Biden’s fault (even trumpty dumpty got booed off stage promoting the vaccine)
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are you refering to almost a entire year of burning and looting? i remember watching on tv people making multiple trips into a liquor store carrying out armfuls of booze not even bothering to cover faces...how about the looting of target and burning down of businesses. i can't remember hearing of any of them actually going to court and being punished... is that what you mean by people being convinced America is a place where you can do whatever you want?

if those people had been arrested and prosecuted at the beginning i don't think it would have gone on for nearly a year.
 
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mechka_grizli said:
This doesnt make sense. They didnt say everyone needed to be vaccinated, they said everyone needs to be tested. You can't honestly be saying you have a problem with making sure no one walking around actively infected is at the event.
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easy solution, refund money to those not wanting to spend money to be tested. :)
 
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mechka_grizli said:
This doesnt make sense. They didnt say everyone needed to be vaccinated, they said everyone needs to be tested. You can't honestly be saying you have a problem with making sure no one walking around actively infected is at the event.
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There's some ticket holders who have an issue with this. Apparently testing over there carries a cost (where I live testing is free).
 
thebigt said:
are you refering to almost a entire year of burning and looting? i remember watching on tv people making multiple trips into a liquor store carrying out armfuls of booze not even bothering to cover faces...how about the looting of target and burning down of businesses. i can't remember hearing of any of them actually going to court and being punished... is that what you mean by people being convinced America is a place where you can do whatever you want?

if those people had been arrested and prosecuted at the beginning i don't think it would have gone on for nearly a year.
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You should probably stop watching tv on a loop and enjoy retirement outside or something. An entire year of looting and burning really? Fear is eating you alive. I know you’re scared but the bogey man is not coming for you. Get off the internet, read a book, have sex with your wife or mate ( if you can), go live the rest of whatever life you have left.
 
kenic03 said:
You should probably stop watching tv on a loop and enjoy retirement outside or something. An entire year of looting and burning really? Fear is eating you alive. I know you’re scared but the bogey man is not coming for you. Get off the internet, read a book, have sex with your wife or mate ( if you can), go live the rest of whatever life you have left.
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The gaslighting is strong with this one.
 
kenic03 said:
You should probably look up the term gaslighting before you use it in a sentence.
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You acted as if what Tbone said happened wasn’t happening in regards to the year massive damage from rioting in the cities. Pretty text book definition of gaslighting.

You should probably look up the term gaslighting before you question someone using it in a sentence.
 
rob112 said:
You acted as if what Tbone said happened wasn’t happening in regards to the year massive damage from rioting in the cities. Pretty text book definition of gaslighting.

You should probably look up the term gaslighting before you question someone using it in a sentence.
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I never questioned what he said only thing I questioned was his “whole year”. At this point this conversation is kinda pointless. Wear a mask/don’t wear a mask… get vaccinated/don’t get vaccinated…it doesn’t really matter. It’s hard to have a civil conversation on a message board. So there you win.
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
are you saying that the burning and rioting didn't happen? or that you shouldn't live in fear while its going on everywhere?
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I never said that. Of course it happened but a whole year of rioting and looting, come on man. It didn’t go on everywhere. Living in fear of what…people? Lmao I’m good. Also like I told the last person you win. I lose.
 
kenic03 said:
You should probably stop watching tv on a loop and enjoy retirement outside or something. An entire year of looting and burning really? Fear is eating you alive. I know you’re scared but the bogey man is not coming for you. Get off the internet, read a book, have sex with your wife or mate ( if you can), go live the rest of whatever life you have left.
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lol..you are funny:)
 
kenic03 said:
Again employers have the right to make that decision as an employee or a person looking for you work you can work there or not. For an older veteran you sure do a lot of name calling when people don’t agree with you. I’ve been respectful this whole time with you just having a simple discussion but if you want to be an old **** cool.

Again nobody is forcing you as an individual to do anything. You have the freedom to continue to be an old dick, respectfully.
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Just checking, so employers can demand employees do whatever they want and if anyone doesnt like it they lose their ability to earn and feed themselves and their families, gotcha, good to know. So i guess if your employer said you need to give up that ass, or do something illegal or humiliating etc you would just leave and not think it unjust or want to sue or put them on blast right? Because those in power can take advantage of the powerless who just want to work to support themselves in your world, thank christ i live in uk where we have hard won workers right and the rich can't completly **** on us like you want.
 
sepulvd said:
You even said it the EEOC said it's a business right to decide if they want there employees to vaccinated how is that mandating the vaccine. If people want to work and not get vaccinated they can go move to a new job that doesn't require it.
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You all understand we dont yet live in a distopia where corporations own your body and soul and can do what they want with it like we're their slaves, dont you?
 
Carnivorecon said:
Just checking, so employers can demand employees do whatever they want and if anyone doesnt like it they lose their ability to earn and feed themselves and their families, gotcha, good to know. So i guess if your employer said you need to give up that ass, or do something illegal or humiliating etc you would just leave and not think it unjust or want to sue or put them on blast right? Because those in power can take advantage of the powerless who just want to work to support themselves in your world, thank christ i live in uk where we have hard won workers right and the rich can't completly **** on us like you want.
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Do whatever you want… we’re all free right? The rich have been shitting on the poor and middle class forever. Help me understand is hard-won workers rights like a union if so here in the US unions seem to be frowned on. Also aren’t they trying to change hard won rights. All of these what if’s don’t matter.

If your employer tells you to wear a certain uniform to work but you choose not to should you get fired for that? Or should you complain about the rules that a private company has?

Again nobody is forcing anybody to get the vaccine or wear a mask.
 
kenic03 said:
Do whatever you want… we’re all free right? The rich have been shitting on the poor and middle class forever. Help me understand is hard-won workers rights like a union if so here in the US unions seem to be frowned on. Also aren’t they trying to change hard won rights. All of these what if’s don’t matter.

If your employer tells you to wear a certain uniform to work but you choose not to should you get fired for that? Or should you complain about the rules that a private company has?

Again nobody is forcing anybody to get the vaccine or wear a mask.
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lol, please keep posting, your posts are great. :D
 
kenic03 said:
Do whatever you want… we’re all free right? The rich have been shitting on the poor and middle class forever. Help me understand is hard-won workers rights like a union if so here in the US unions seem to be frowned on. Also aren’t they trying to change hard won rights. All of these what if’s don’t matter.

If your employer tells you to wear a certain uniform to work but you choose not to should you get fired for that? Or should you complain about the rules that a private company has?

Again nobody is forcing anybody to get the vaccine or wear a mask.
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You're being deliberately obtuse here aren't you, i think you need to read this definition right here

coercion:

noun

the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.

i.e. inject this vaccine that you don't trust into your body or lose your income.

When someone threatens bad consequences of not doing what they say thats not a choice that is coercion, force.
And how the fuq can you compare wearing a uniform to taking something which in your belief is harmful. If a job required muslims, jews or vegans to eat pork would thst be cool then since we're going ad absurdium here
 
Carnivorecon said:
You're being deliberately obtuse here aren't you, i think you need to read this definition right here

coercion:

noun

the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.

i.e. inject this vaccine that you don't trust into your body or lose your income.

When someone threatens bad consequences of not doing what they say thats not a choice that is coercion, force.
And how the fuq can you compare wearing a uniform to taking something which in your belief is harmful. If a job required muslims, jews or vegans to eat pork would thst be cool then since we're going ad absurdium here
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:D
 
Carnivorecon said:
You're being deliberately obtuse here aren't you, i think you need to read this definition right here

coercion:

noun

the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.

i.e. inject this vaccine that you don't trust into your body or lose your income.

When someone threatens bad consequences of not doing what they say thats not a choice that is coercion, force.
And how the fuq can you compare wearing a uniform to taking something which in your belief is harmful. If a job required muslims, jews or vegans to eat pork would thst be cool then since we're going ad absurdium here
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You’re right. I’m wrong.
 
kenic03 said:
You’re right. I’m wrong.
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Okay so you don't want to go back and forth anymore, I'm glad because it was getting tiresome and lets be honest no one's changing their mind on here are they. We clearly disagree on whether or not people ARE being forced in to vaccination, but do you believe people SHOULD be, lets say "incentivised" to get vaxed in order to not face exclusion from public life or loss of income and so on?
 
thebigt said:
you would think the government would make them refund ticket money? no matter what side of the fence EVERYONE should be against this---people don't realize that if they agree to let the government take away one freedom today, the next time it just might be a freedom they care about.

it isn't even about vaccines/masks, it's become a control/power issue.
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hasn't there been a few government agencies that have mandated to get vaccinated OR get tested weekly and pay for it? it's pretty silly, they should require all workers to test if they show any symptoms of sickness, and pay for it. I bet they don't even care if you got the third shot too
 
Carnivorecon said:
Okay so you don't want to go back and forth anymore, I'm glad because it was getting tiresome and lets be honest no one's changing their mind on here are they. We clearly disagree on whether or not people ARE being forced in to vaccination, but do you believe people SHOULD be, lets say "incentivised" to get vaxed in order to not face exclusion from public life or loss of income and so on?
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It’s easier just to agree. I was never trying to change anyone’s mind. Just had a few questions that never got answered. The conversation turned and there was name calling and adults getting into their feelings.
 
kenic03 said:
It’s easier just to agree. I was never trying to change anyone’s mind. Just had a few questions that never got answered. The conversation turned and there was name calling and adults getting into their feelings.
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Yh i got that, we'll just leave it there then if you don't want to state your position or discuss any further.
 
Carnivorecon said:
Yh i got that, we'll just leave it there then if you don't want to state your position or discuss any further.
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I honestly don’t have a position. My point was never about getting the vaccine or not getting the vaccine. That’s a personal decision. I asked a question that still hasn’t been answered. Here it is again who here has been forced to to get vaxxed
 
kenic03 said:
I honestly don’t have a position. My point was never about getting the vaccine or not getting the vaccine. That’s a personal decision. I asked a question that still hasn’t been answered. Here it is again who here has been forced to to get vaxxed
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define forced
 
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kenic03 said:
I honestly don’t have a position. My point was never about getting the vaccine or not getting the vaccine. That’s a personal decision. I asked a question that still hasn’t been answered. Here it is again who here has been forced to to get vaxxed
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I think most people on this forum would agree with you, it is a personal decision
 
I think a more interesting question is, if you were in a position of authority and (insert any communicable disease worse than covid here smallpox, bubonic plague etc. Whatever you want.) was spreading, what would you consider to be the correct way to convince skeptics to follow whatever public health guidelines you deemed necessary.

Please refrain from answering in the negative ie "I would not do x,y,z" or "Covid is not x,y,z." Humouring my premise, what *would* you do?
 
nostrum420 said:
It looks like they're allowing for religious and/or medical exemptions.
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Here is the thing that gets me...it is illegal for an employer to question you about your medical status in most situations, so if I have a medical condition and I am required to get vaccinated, I now have to disclose that I have a medical condition, which means I can sue my employer now right?

And if I say I have a medical condition, do I now have to prove it? Or can anyone just say they have a condition?

I mean, not trying to play lawyer here...I have very limited knowledge, it just seems like a lot of lawsuits are going to be created.
 
HIT4ME said:
Here is the thing that gets me...it is illegal for an employer to question you about your medical status in most situations, so if I have a medical condition and I am required to get vaccinated, I now have to disclose that I have a medical condition, which means I can sue my employer now right?

And if I say I have a medical condition, do I now have to prove it? Or can anyone just say they have a condition?

I mean, not trying to play lawyer here...I have very limited knowledge, it just seems like a lot of lawsuits are going to be created.
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The exception to the "most situations" is when you're infectious to others. Even that gets hairy though and there's been a lot of debate as to where the line is. This has been a hot button issue around having to disclose HIV positivity but it's generally considered fine for an employer to ask if you've had the flu recently and in some settings require certain vaccinations ie people traveling for work are often required to get things like malaria vaccines.
 
nostrum420 said:
I think a more interesting question is, if you were in a position of authority and (insert any communicable disease worse than covid here smallpox, bubonic plague etc. Whatever you want.) was spreading, what would you consider to be the correct way to convince skeptics to follow whatever public health guidelines you deemed necessary.

Please refrain from answering in the negative ie "I would not do x,y,z" or "Covid is not x,y,z." Humouring my premise, what *would* you do?
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Best you can do is be honest about what you know and don’t know. Then let individuals decide what to do based of their risk assessment. Give recommendations to the best of your ability to help.

In my opinion if it was one of the worse diseases that you mentioned, especially if it kills kids, you would not need a massive level of PR and suppression effort. I also believe those two things actually hurt the chance of buy in.

I do believe in individuals. I believe it was Nietzsche(could be off I read up on many philosophers) something to the effect of most individuals are sane, but many crowds are insane.

Dammit I know he said it much more elegantly, but you can see what I mean.
 
nostrum420 said:
The exception to the "most situations" is when you're infectious to others. Even that gets hairy though and there's been a lot of debate as to where the line is. This has been a hot button issue around having to disclose HIV positivity but it's generally considered fine for an employer to ask if you've had the flu recently and in some settings require certain vaccinations ie people traveling for work are often required to get things like malaria vaccines.
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The thing is it isn't about disclosing your infectious disease, it is about being forced to disclose your nom-infectious disease by proxy. I.e. - I have diabetes or an autoimmune disease, or whatever and you would have never known or had reason to know but now I have to disclose because you are mandating a vaccine? Or do I not have to disclose and just claiming to have a condition is enough (at which point the mandate is worthless).

I honestly don't know and you are raising great points...I just think these questions are going to end up being answered through law suits.
 
Rad83 said:
I think it’s a language barrier or something!?

They don’t seem to understand forced has multiple meanings…They are going by “violent force, physical harm etc.” only. 🤦‍♂️
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Exactly! As I stated in my post yesterday, this is force through coercion. People say things like "if you don't like your employer mandating vaccines then move and find another job." Easier said than done for a lot of people.

What about the employees who have made a career of 15, 20, 30 years with an employer who suddenly tells them their livelihood and future hinges on this experimental jab with no known long-term side effects? Can they hold their employers responsible for any ill effect suffered as a result of said coercion?

These people have mortgages and investments in their communities. Many have kids in school. And moving a kid while they're in middle or high school can have negative impacts on their emotional well-being. Arguably, more so than this overreaction to a virus with a greater than 99% survival rate. It's not so simple for most people to just pack up and move.

I have employees. What if I mandated, as a condition of their employment, the women in my office take birth control because I don't want them missing work for maternity leave? Coercion is immoral, regardless of the end means.
 
There are at least 5 bands I know of, big time touring acts…That are requiring aka ‘forcing’ everyone to show proof of vaccination, and wear a mask….or don’t see us live.
 
Hell, The Offspring fired their drummer for not getting vaccinated when he had a legitimate medical reason. His condition, Guillain Barre, is one of the major side effects of the vaccine.

Then you have NYC requiring vaccination for working, dining, or shopping with no medical or religious exemptions; yet, they've exempted athletes, entertainers, and their guests. Absolute insanity!
 
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