Anyone interested in Symplocos Racemosa/Lodhra?

BillD

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I'm in the other thread and like the potential name that was mentioned. I put my vote on it

The only other think I can think of that I think goes great with it is forskolin. Problem is, some people do not respond well, so if it was used then Forslean would be the route I would take. 25mg per serving.

The flip side is that Forslean is so readily available that leaving it out would not only keep the cost down, but allow users to tailor their own forskolin dose.

*200 mg Cocoabuterol? I don't think i've seen a dose higher than 50mg per serving
I’d respectfully pass on the forsk
 

Infiknite

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I have a feeling all these Usp labs products had sarms in them before we knew what sarms were. For awhile all there products where ridiculous for “natural “ products.
Never felt any negative side effects that would suggest sarms. But compound 20 was so good, one of my favorite supps. Along with the original anabeta, another one people have suggested was adulterated.
 
sns8778

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I'm in the other thread and like the potential name that was mentioned. I put my vote on it

The only other think I can think of that I think goes great with it is forskolin. Problem is, some people do not respond well, so if it was used then Forslean would be the route I would take. 25mg per serving.

The flip side is that Forslean is so readily available that leaving it out would not only keep the cost down, but allow users to tailor their own forskolin dose.
I remembered that you were in that thread as well and I really appreciate you taking the time to carry over and discuss it in different threads. I think we are in agreement with the name.

And I think we are in agreement about Coleus. We're going to do Coleus as a single ingredient product so that people can stack it with whatever they want but leave it out of most formulas so that people that can't take it can still enjoy them.

I'm trying to decide between a Coleus 20% and 95%. The active dose would be the same. Some people tend to tolerate one better, and other people the other.
 
mechka_grizli

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I remembered that you were in that thread as well and I really appreciate you taking the time to carry over and discuss it in different threads. I think we are in agreement with the name.

And I think we are in agreement about Coleus. We're going to do Coleus as a single ingredient product so that people can stack it with whatever they want but leave it out of most formulas so that people that can't take it can still enjoy them.

I'm trying to decide between a Coleus 20% and 95%. The active dose would be the same. Some people tend to tolerate one better, and other people the other.
I have the WEAKEST and most IRRITABLE stomach imaginable.....the 95% is the only one that doesn't jack my stomach up
 
sns8778

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I have the WEAKEST and most IRRITABLE stomach imaginable.....the 95% is the only one that doesn't jack my stomach up
Thank you for sharing. That's the way I'm leaning. The reverse side battle that companies fight is the marketing side where then company XYZ offers 500 mg. @ 10% and people say 'oh, that one has 500 mg. and theirs only has 50 mg.'.

But I'm pretty sure we're going to do a 95%.
 
BCseacow83

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Thank you. This conversation on this ingredient is going on in a couple different threads and that's one that a lot of people seem interested in. I'd agreed to do it if anyone can help think of a name and I think we have one haha.

Compound 20 was a prop blend per 2 capsules of 1520 mg. of: Symplocos (Lodhra), N-Coumaroyldopamine, and N-Caffeoyldopamine. With a dosage of 2 servings per day.

My thought was something like:
Symplocos/Lodhra - 2800 mg.
Cocoabuterol - 200 mg., maybe 300 mg. (contains N-Coumaroyldopamine, and N-Caffeoyldopamine)
Bioperine & or AstraGin (I need to check and see if one or both would be beneficial)
Personally I would like to see Bioperine used LESS as it starts to add up when in multiple formulas/products one is taking.........of course I am a supp junkie and this maybe is less of an issue for most "normal users" lol.
 
BCseacow83

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Thank you for sharing. That's the way I'm leaning. The reverse side battle that companies fight is the marketing side where then company XYZ offers 500 mg. @ 10% and people say 'oh, that one has 500 mg. and theirs only has 50 mg.'.

But I'm pretty sure we're going to do a 95%.
I am cool with either but personally think the more informed users are going to want the 95% even if it does not make a difference in the end. Just emphasize MAXIMUM PURITY AND POTENCY in the adds lol.
 
sns8778

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Personally I would like to see Bioperine used LESS as it starts to add up when in multiple formulas/products one is taking.........of course I am a supp junkie and this maybe is less of an issue for most "normal users" lol.
The average person though only uses 2 to 3 products maximum. I know some companies just put it in products bc it looks good on the label to say they have an absorption enhancer; we only use it when we feel like it really helps. But if it really does help, we definitely want to have it in there.
 
Afi140

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Thank you. This conversation on this ingredient is going on in a couple different threads and that's one that a lot of people seem interested in. I'd agreed to do it if anyone can help think of a name and I think we have one haha.

Compound 20 was a prop blend per 2 capsules of 1520 mg. of: Symplocos (Lodhra), N-Coumaroyldopamine, and N-Caffeoyldopamine. With a dosage of 2 servings per day.

My thought was something like:
Symplocos/Lodhra - 2800 mg.
Cocoabuterol - 200 mg., maybe 300 mg. (contains N-Coumaroyldopamine, and N-Caffeoyldopamine)
Bioperine & or AstraGin (I need to check and see if one or both would be beneficial)
Will you be able to disclose to the amount of n-coumaryl and n-caffe within the formula? :) if not I totally get it
 
sns8778

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Will you be able to disclose to the amount of n-coumaryl and n-caffe within the formula? :) if not I totally get it
If we use branded Cocoabuterol, then we could disclose it only if they let us disclose it. So that would kind of be their decision; but I don't care from my end.

Some people may make an argument to use those two and not Cocoabuteral, but the thing is we're getting asked for Cocoabuterol too so I was thinking that might be the legit way to go about this.
 

offredjo

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@sns8778 Hey Steve, are you still planning on releasing a highly standardized Symplocos/Lodhra extract? I ask because I have 4 bottles each of Anacyclus XT, Furosap XT and Spilanthes XT and I’m 8 weeks in stacking all three and man! I’m loving the results!
I want to add in Symplocos/Lodhra for the next 8 weeks hoping to add to the amazing results I’m seeing this far.
 
sns8778

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@sns8778 Hey Steve, are you still planning on releasing a highly standardized Symplocos/Lodhra extract? I ask because I have 4 bottles each of Anacyclus XT, Furosap XT and Spilanthes XT and I’m 8 weeks in stacking all three and man! I’m loving the results!
I want to add in Symplocos/Lodhra for the next 8 weeks hoping to add to the amazing results I’m seeing this far.
Thank you for the interest and for asking.

And that's awesome to hear, I'm glad you're enjoying them. That sounds like a great stack.

And yes, we will be offering a highly standardized Symplocos/Lodhra in several different products coming up within the next few months :)
 

offredjo

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Thank you for the interest and for asking.

And that's awesome to hear, I'm glad you're enjoying them. That sounds like a great stack.

And yes, we will be offering a highly standardized Symplocos/Lodhra in several different products coming up within the next few months :)
Awesome! Will you also be offering it in a stand alone supplement?
 
sns8778

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Awesome! Will you also be offering it in a stand alone supplement?
I'm not sure.

We've already been asked to do and are doing a product comparable to the original Compound20 which was Symplocos and 2 other ingredients that are no longer available individually, but are found in Cocoabuterol. There was a lot of talk in a thread about this, I don't remember which one, and Duke3577 suggested a great name for it- Recomp20. So that will be Symplocos + Cocoabuterol.

Then we will be using it in at least one more SNS product and one new CEL product.

So I think we may cover this category super well between those options and for anyone wanting it as a single ingredient could really just view the Cocoabuterol as an added bonus and use Recomp20.
 
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offredjo

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I'm not sure.

We've already been asked to do and are doing a product comparable to the original Compound20 which was Symplocos and 2 other ingredients that are no longer available individually, but are found in Cocoabuterol. There was a lot of talk in a thread about this, I don't remember which one, and I think it was Zoo that suggested a great name for it- Recomp20. So that will be Symplocos + Cocoabuterol.

Then we will be using it in at least one more SNS product and one new CEL product.

So I think we may cover this category super well between those options and for anyone wanting it as a single ingredient could really just view the Cocoabuterol as an added bonus and use Recomp20.
Makes sense. I loved the original Compound20 (before they reformulated it) so I’m excited for SNS’ version. Will definitely be picking up a few bottles when it is released.
 
sns8778

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Tried to quote you here and it formatted weirdly so I deleted it
 
sns8778

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Makes sense. I loved the original Compound20 (before they reformulated it) so I’m excited for SNS’ version. Will definitely be picking up a few bottles when it is released.
Thank you. I hope that you'll enjoy it.

We will have one product coming out before it that will have Symplocos in it too :)
 
sns8778

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Sorry, but I’m gonna have to state my claim here for “Recomp20” for that free bottle 😉
Was it you that came up with the name? I honestly couldn't remember haha.
 

dukes3577

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Yes, no worries. Funny thing is yesterday after seeing it mentioned again, I was trying to figure out where I posted it.
 
sns8778

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Yes, no worries. Funny thing is yesterday after seeing it mentioned again, I was trying to figure out where I posted it.
I couldn't find the thread either. But I did just change my post to give you proper acknowledgement for the name; which I really do appreciate it. There are so many products that we have that we want to do that are being held up just by not being able to think of a good name for them.
 
sns8778

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I thought I did!! Free bottles for all of us!
I officially have no idea lol. I couldn't find the thread we were discussing it in haha
 
sns8778

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I'll take a free bottle, gladly run a log with anacyclus and epi-plex
The free bottle thing is I promised whoever came up with the name a free bottle but can't find the thread haha.

But it would definitely make a great stack with Anacyclus XT and Epi-Plex.
 
DieselNY

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Haven't read who thread but saw this pop up. Looks like something good to stack with a thermogenic fat burner. Would this be better than forskolin? Or different mechanisms. Either way sounds interesting.
 
DieselNY

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How do y’all feel about my worry about the confusion part? Think people would be able to understand & not let the female study stuff confuse them?

I want to do one. I just don’t want to deal w the BS of it getting attacked out of context if that makes sense.
I wouldn't worry. The "bros" pop clomid like candy and no one worries about its mechanisms.
 
Hyde

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Haven't read who thread but saw this pop up. Looks like something good to stack with a thermogenic fat burner. Would this be better than forskolin? Or different mechanisms. Either way sounds interesting.
Anabeta Elite, multiple versions of it, included both ingredients and folks enjoyed every version. FWIW to you, going full anecdote/no science.
 

dukes3577

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🤔 error when I click the link. Post #644 in “Tell us what you would like to see from SNS.
 
sns8778

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🤔 error when I click the link. Post #644 in “Tell us what you would like to see from SNS.
Ha. The smiley face you put at the end became part of the hyperlink and that's what causes the error ;)
 
sns8778

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Haven't read who thread but saw this pop up. Looks like something good to stack with a thermogenic fat burner. Would this be better than forskolin? Or different mechanisms. Either way sounds interesting.
I believe slightly different but I need to brush up on that before I can give you a definite answer.
 
50Magnum

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Sorry for bringing up this old thread but I have a question about this ingredient that I couldnt really find much about on this site,

On the web it says it increases LH and FSH production, but at the same time there is information that it lowers test and is an anti androgen. I will post up both links, I just see two things that conflict each other and would like to know which is which.


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15261983/ and https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0378874104002223
 
sns8778

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Sorry for bringing up this old thread but I have a question about this ingredient that I couldnt really find much about on this site,

On the web it says it increases LH and FSH production, but at the same time there is information that it lowers test and is an anti androgen. I will post up both links, I just see two things that conflict each other and would like to know which is which.


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15261983/ and https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0378874104002223
Honestly, this issue has been beat to death for years. Cooper has explained it 10 years ago, Synapsin explained it the same way 10 years ago, I've explained it at least half a dozen times in the last year or two.

(Not frustrated at you; frustrated that the subject keeps coming up).

The studies you're posting pertain to females.

The studies on females show that it reduces testosterone in females whereas the studies in males show that it helps increase testosterone, LH, and FSH levels in males.

Many things work different in females than in males; Clomid is a great example of something that works very differently in males and females.

Edit: Matter of fact, I looked back at this thread and I had addressed this in the very first post in the thread.
 
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sns8778

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What ever happened with this idea?
We released Recomp20 quite awhile ago. It's been a very popular product and sells out pretty quickly every time we get restocked on it. We actually just got it back in stock yesterday and am going to list it back for sale in just a moment.

We also are using SR10X, a highly standardized symplocos, in both Anabolic XT and Cloma-Plex, both of which have been very popular for us.

Recomp20 release thread:


Recomp20 write up and product listing:


Anabolic XT discussion thread:


Anabolic XT write up and product listing:

 
50Magnum

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Honestly, this issue has been beat to death for years. Cooper has explained it 10 years ago, Synapsin explained it the same way 10 years ago, I've explained it at least half a dozen times in the last year or two.

(Not frustrated at you; frustrated that the subject keeps coming up).

The studies you're posting pertain to females.

The studies on females show that it reduces testosterone in females whereas the studies in males show that it helps increase testosterone, LH, and FSH levels in males.

Many things work different in females than in males; Clomid is a great example of something that works very differently in males and females.

Edit: Matter of fact, I looked back at this thread and I had addressed this in the very first post in the thread.
I know you addressed it on the very first post, which is why I was asking because it seems people were just chiming in on their experience with USP Labs Compound 20 which had the same ingredient but not much was really talked about the study. I was trying to find bloodwork on this ingredient but could not find any. If you have any links or thread about this ingredient that I can read much will be appreciated.
 
sns8778

sns8778

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I know you addressed it on the very first post, which is why I was asking because it seems people were just chiming in on their experience with USP Labs Compound 20 which had the same ingredient but not much was really talked about the study. I was trying to find bloodwork on this ingredient but could not find any. If you have any links or thread about this ingredient that I can read much will be appreciated.
The reason that people were commenting on their experiences and liking Compound 20 were that they were expressing interest in us doing a product like that, which we did with Recomp20.

There is nothing much to talk about on the study that you posted - it was done on females. Studies on males show a testosterone increase and studies on females show a testosterone decrease , which is not uncommon at all.

People not understanding the studies correctly and in context was one of my expressed reservations about using the ingredient in a product - because it seems like no matter how often and thoroughly it has been addressed, it still pops up from time to time. Back when PES used this ingredient, both Cooper and Synapsin answered the questions over and over and I have done the same.

In context, when this thread was made, there were some of us that had discussed it pretty extensively in another thread around the same time, which kind of inspired this thread. I tried to find that for you, but I couldn't. As you may know, the search function here makes it hard to find a lot of things haha.

If something is shown to increase testosterone levels in men, then a man should reference the studies pertaining to men.

Plus, a major thing with any herb is how it is extracted and what it is extracted for. We use SE10X Symplocos, which is a highly standardized extract.

Think about it like this - Fenugreek has been shown to increase estrogen in females but certain types and constituents in it have been shown very effective at increasing testosterone in males. Furosap, a specific type, has numerous clinical studies in men and was compared to other testosterone boosting ingredients and performed better than over 20 other ingredients for increasing natural testosterone levels.

There is a lot more to the methods of action of this ingredient anyway than just testosterone enhancement.

If you're looking for reviews and feedback, there is a lot of feedback on Recomp20, Anabolic XT, and Cloma-Plex. Anabolic XT and Cloma-Plex are both very comprehensive products; Recomp20 is the closest one you would find to being indicative of this ingredient itself.

I hope that info helps.

Recomp20 write up:


Recomp20 thread:


Anabolic XT write up:


Anabolic XT thread:

 

Slims

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I know you addressed it on the very first post, which is why I was asking because it seems people were just chiming in on their experience with USP Labs Compound 20 which had the same ingredient but not much was really talked about the study. I was trying to find bloodwork on this ingredient but could not find any. If you have any links or thread about this ingredient that I can read much will be appreciated.
The reason that people were commenting on their experiences and liking Compound 20 were that they were expressing interest in us doing a product like that, which we did with Recomp20.

There is nothing much to talk about on the study that you posted - it was done on females. Studies on males show a testosterone increase and studies on females show a testosterone decrease , which is not uncommon at all.

If something is shown to increase testosterone levels in men, then a man should reference the studies pertaining to men.

Plus, a major thing with any herb is how it is extracted and what it is extracted for. We use SE10X Symplocos, which is a highly standardized extract.

If you're looking for reviews and feedback, there is a lot of feedback on Recomp20, Anabolic XT, and Cloma-Plex. Anabolic XT and Cloma-Plex are both very comprehensive products; Recomp20 is the closest one you would find to being indicative of this ingredient itself.

Recomp20 write up:

Recomp20 thread:
@50Magnum I can attest to the effectiveness of Recomp20 and have some bloodwork to support @sns8778 comments on it's testosterone boosting effects
 

Resolve10

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Seems most of this has been covered pretty well in the last several posts, but I think one thing to keep in mind with this ingredient is that boosting testosterone is not the main selling point (I could be wrong, everyone does use things for their own purposes after all). I've always viewed it as more of a body composition "booster" via strong cAMP boosting. You have things like Forskolin that directly boost cAMP (using the example as a reference point) and Forskolin also has downstream effects on hormones (like Testosterone) as well, but the main selling point is its use in boosting cAMP to free up free fatty acids to be burned (fat loss, fat mitigation, and/or body recomp). Something like SR (Symplocos Racemosa) is a PDE inhibitor and PDE breaks down cAMP so therefore SR also increases cAMP (in a different way than something like Forskolin, which is why they work synergistically together to great effect). PDE inhibition can also help provide some pumps, muscle fullness, and other downstream hormonal benefits (like on Testosterone).

I don't want to fully short change the Testosterone benefits from SR, so don't take this as totally down playing it. Just more of how my point of view looks with these things. Something like SR would be my choice when focusing on higher benefits to things that shift body composition, with Testosterone boosting as a cool bonus that helps, whereas I would look at something a bit different if I wanted something that gave more of the stereotypical "feels" that people get with boosted Testosterone (like mood, vitality, etc.). This doesn't touch on everything it could potentially benefit either.

I'd also not be sure if major shifts in hormones is something I'd even be looking for with taking this and getting bloodwork. Not saying it won't help, not saying you shouldn't necessarily care, but more that again you probably won't be measuring and testing to see these boosts in PDE inhibition, changes in cAMP, etc.

It is a great ingredient, been a fan for awhile now. :)
 

Slims

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Seems most of this has been covered pretty well in the last several posts, but I think one thing to keep in mind with this ingredient is that boosting testosterone is not the main selling point (I could be wrong, everyone does use things for their own purposes after all). I've always viewed it as more of a body composition "booster" via strong cAMP boosting. You have things like Forskolin that directly boost cAMP (using the example as a reference point) and Forskolin also has downstream effects on hormones (like Testosterone) as well, but the main selling point is its use in boosting cAMP to free up free fatty acids to be burned (fat loss, fat mitigation, and/or body recomp). Something like SR (Symplocos Racemosa) is a PDE inhibitor and PDE breaks down cAMP so therefore SR also increases cAMP (in a different way than something like Forskolin, which is why they work synergistically together to great effect). PDE inhibition can also help provide some pumps, muscle fullness, and other downstream hormonal benefits (like on Testosterone).

I don't want to fully short change the Testosterone benefits from SR, so don't take this as totally down playing it. Just more of how my point of view looks with these things. Something like SR would be my choice when focusing on higher benefits to things that shift body composition, with Testosterone boosting as a cool bonus that helps, whereas I would look at something a bit different if I wanted something that gave more of the stereotypical "feels" that people get with boosted Testosterone (like mood, vitality, etc.). This doesn't touch on everything it could potentially benefit either.

I'd also not be sure if major shifts in hormones is something I'd even be looking for with taking this and getting bloodwork. Not saying it won't help, not saying you shouldn't necessarily care, but more that again you probably won't be measuring and testing to see these boosts in PDE inhibition, changes in cAMP, etc.

It is a great ingredient, been a fan for awhile now. :)
I didn't start taking Recomp20 for it's testosterone boosting abilities, I, like you, took it for it's body recompositioning effects. It was just a bonus to see my test levels increase a little from it. This is also one of the reasons that whenever I take something new I run it solo first to be sure of what effects are are coming from which product(s).
 

Resolve10

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I didn't start taking Recomp20 for it's testosterone boosting abilities, I, like you, took it for it's body recompositioning effects. It was just a bonus to see my test levels increase a little from it. This is also one of the reasons that whenever I take something new I run it solo first to be sure of what effects are are coming from which product(s).
Ya definitely! That is cool you have some actual bloodwork backing it too though. Nice to be able to confirm in your own actual body that it works haha
 

Slims

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It won't let me attach images for some reason but...

One Day Before Recomp20
Total Testosterone = 16.00nmol

Four Weeks Into Recomp20
Total Testosterone = 19.80nmol
 
Hyde

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It won't let me attach images for some reason but...

One Day Before Recomp20
Total Testosterone = 16.00nmol

Four Weeks Into Recomp20
Total Testosterone = 19.80nmol
I’m not super familiar with the euro scale, but I believe that’s a very significant hop, yeah? Doesn’t normal range go up to about 30nmol?
 

Slims

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I’m not super familiar with the euro scale, but I believe that’s a very significant hop, yeah? Doesn’t normal range go up to about 30nmol?
"Normal Range" in the UK is
8.64nmol - 29.00nmol

So an increase of 3.80nmol in just four weeks.
With the only controllable difference being the addition of Recomp20 to my daily supplement intake
 
sns8778

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It won't let me attach images for some reason but...

One Day Before Recomp20
Total Testosterone = 16.00nmol

Four Weeks Into Recomp20
Total Testosterone = 19.80nmol
"Normal Range" in the UK is
8.64nmol - 29.00nmol

So an increase of 3.80nmol in just four weeks.
With the only controllable difference being the addition of Recomp20 to my daily supplement intake
Thank you for posting the results. I really appreciate that.

That's a great jump in 4 weeks time.
 

Slims

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Thank you for posting the results. I really appreciate that.

That's a great jump in 4 weeks time.
Added in M-Test last week too, with bloods due again in about 9 weeks, it'll be interesting to see what that's added
 

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