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Havov Cycle / Possible 11-oxo stack/bridge - help

kissdadookie said:
EOD idea also came from reading internet posts. :D

Lastly OP, there is a anabolics section on this board. This thread really should have gone there. LoL.
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^^ Good catch. I didn't even notice.

@Admin , could you please move this to the Anabolics Section?
 
KvanH said:
The Rebirth doesn't add anything here with the Tamox in the picture. If you already have it and want to use it, then I'd use it after the Tamox. Kings Blood has some decent ingridients iirc, so you can use it for mood and to possibly lower shbg, which can rise from the Tamox. Eradicate hmm.. It's some kind of otc AI, right? Arimistane? Arimistane is a weak AI, but can lower cortisol some, so it's an ok addition to pct. You should allways have a real AI on hand though, when running anything hormonal. Especially of you're gyno prone.
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Thanks, yea I dont know if I am gyno prone or if it just happened because I ran 3 different PH with no PCT at all lol. I would rather just stick with Tamoxifin and fish oil. What is the NAC supp again?
 
greg232323 said:
Thanks, yea I dont know if I am gyno prone or if it just happened because I ran 3 different PH with no PCT at all lol. I would rather just stick with Tamoxifin and fish oil. What is the NAC supp again?
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NAC I get mine from Life Extension. Don’t skip on the Pantethine (Jarrows), it’s significant what it does for lipids and cholesterol.
 
kissdadookie said:
NAC I get mine from Life Extension. Don’t skip on the Pantethine (Jarrows), it’s significant what it does for lipids and cholesterol.
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Ok so last time lol...

11-oxo 4 weeks at 600-900 mg
Liver Stabil and Lipid Stabil (Molecular Nutrition)
pantethine from Jarrows
NAC
Fish Oil

Havoc week 5-8 - 30/30/30/30
Liver Stabil and Lipid Stabil (Molecular Nutrition)
pantethine from Jarrows
Fish Oil
NAC
TUDCA

Week 9-12

Tamoxifin
Liver Stabil and Lipid Stabil (Molecular Nutrition)
pantethine from Jarrows
Fish Oil
NAC
TUDCA

I know I may have some in the wrong place. If you can just let me know whats wrong I think I should be good! Thanks for all your help.
 
greg232323 said:
Ok so last time lol...

11-oxo 4 weeks at 600-900 mg
Liver Stabil and Lipid Stabil (Molecular Nutrition)
pantethine from Jarrows
NAC
Fish Oil

Havoc week 5-8 - 30/30/30/30
Liver Stabil and Lipid Stabil (Molecular Nutrition)
pantethine from Jarrows
Fish Oil
NAC
TUDCA

Week 9-12

Tamoxifin
Liver Stabil and Lipid Stabil (Molecular Nutrition)
pantethine from Jarrows
Fish Oil
NAC
TUDCA

I know I may have some in the wrong place. If you can just let me know whats wrong I think I should be good! Thanks for all your help.
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That looks excellent!
 
I think you should run it at 40mg from the get go for the whole 4 weeks. I remember the few times I ran it I dose it at 60mg for 4 weeks and 40mg for 6 weeks but that was 10 years ago when people were really crazy and bridging superdrol into havoc. One thing about orals is you won't starting seeing amazing results until the 3rd week.
 
everything is ordered but i am still very nervous about the chance of gyno again.. i know i am doing things a lot safer and the right way this time but still second guessing myself. I wish there was a way to be sure!
 
greg232323 said:
everything is ordered but i am still very nervous about the chance of gyno again.. i know i am doing things a lot safer and the right way this time but still second guessing myself. I wish there was a way to be sure!
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The tamoxifen will deal with the estrogen rebound. Unless your issue is with prolactin but my assumption is that prolactin issues likely happen again on cycle rather than a rebound issue off cycle (if anybody knows that it is a rebound issue possibly for prolactin as well, please feel free to correct me here).
 
kissdadookie said:
The tamoxifen will deal with the estrogen rebound. Unless your issue is with prolactin but my assumption is that prolactin issues likely happen again on cycle rather than a rebound issue off cycle (if anybody knows that it is a rebound issue possibly for prolactin as well, please feel free to correct me here).
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If prolactin levels are high would they find that in the blood work? If so wouldnt they give you something to treat it?
 
greg232323 said:
Would all the levels, test, estrogen, prolactin, basically everything relating to possible gyno be checked in bloodwork?
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Yes. The tricky part is finding a doctor that will be agreeable to ordering the tests for you. The other tricky part is finding a doctor that knows how to read the results and not just go strictly by the idea of “if it’s technically within range, then you are fine,” reason being that if it’s within range and something is too close to the bottom or top thresholds, that should still be something to investigate because you would barely be in range.
 
kissdadookie said:
Yes. The tricky part is finding a doctor that will be agreeable to ordering the tests for you. The other tricky part is finding a doctor that knows how to read the results and not just go strictly by the idea of “if it’s technically within range, then you are fine,” reason being that if it’s within range and something is too close to the bottom or top thresholds, that should still be something to investigate because you would barely be in range.
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So its not in routine bloodwork? It would have to be additional blood tests that are ordered?
 
kissdadookie said:
Usually no, you have to ask for it or have an issue where your doctor might suggest the tests in order to figure out what the issue is.
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gotcha... i would think if i had issues and said it maybe from supplements I have been taking that my doctor would order it.... hopefully it doesnt come to that.
 
Juat checked. I only have about 15 tamoxifen 10mg pills left. Any chance I could run that for a week and then eradicate for a couple weeks? Would this be sufficient?
 
Makes sense. I may run just the 11 oxo first to get my feet wet.. Seems like this is supposed to be very mild. U think the nolva is still needed?
 
kissdadookie said:
I think maybe just not run any kind of cycle until you are absolutely sure you want to roll the dice.
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Yea definitely nervous. With the issues in the past def got me shook. But part of me is like 3 pro hormones and no pct gave me gyno. 1 ph with ur helps on pct i should be fine lol
 
kissdadookie said:
I think maybe just not run any kind of cycle until you are absolutely sure you want to roll the dice.
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I agree.

Any cycle carries risks.

Almost any cycle worth running needs a SERM PCT, to ensure your best chances of proper recovery.

Maybe just think about whether you really want to run a cycle, OP.
 
so i decided to just run the 11-oxo solo. I am using cycle support and was going to run just an otc pct as all i have read said that 11-oxo was minimally supressive at doeses lower than 600mg. I have the kings blood and rebirth on hand. What are your guys thoughts? Also I am on day 3 and have been feeling a lot more tired. Any suggestions to help?

Thanks all,
 
greg232323 said:
so i decided to just run the 11-oxo solo. I am using cycle support and was going to run just an otc pct as all i have read said that 11-oxo was minimally supressive at doeses lower than 600mg. I have the kings blood and rebirth on hand. What are your guys thoughts? Also I am on day 3 and have been feeling a lot more tired. Any suggestions to help?

Thanks all,
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Sounds like too low cortisol. If that's the case, then lowering the dose would be the only option.
 
greg232323 said:
Isnt that the goal lol. Maybe just stick it out for a few days till my body adjusts?
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You can try that too. But even though lowering the cortisol is the goal, it can get too low and tiredness is one of the most common symptoms of low cortisol. But your body might adjust.
 
KvanH said:
You can try that too. But even though lowering the cortisol is the goal, it can get too low and tiredness is one of the most common symptoms of low cortisol. But your body might adjust.
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Ill give it a few more days. Did use a pre workput in the gym yesterday and felt great. If it continues ill lower the dose accordingly
 
so the tiredness has went away thankfully. I have been running the 600mg a day.. diet has not been perfect but feel like my mid section is tightening up a little bit.

I have some animal cuts at the house as well. Any reason to not take this with the 11-oxo? I believe that to be all natural?

Any thoughts.

Thanks,
 
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