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Anxiety on anavar

Punkrocker

Well-known member
Hey guys it's me your favorite headcase. So I decided to add 25mg a day of REAL anavar to my trt protocol which is 200mg test per week. I'm already losing my **** lol. I dunno why I can't handle anabolics anymore. I'm using L-Theanine and CBD oil to try and keep the anxiety at Bay. Fucking 25mg of anavar can you guys believe this. Incredible. Anyone got any other ways I can chill out lol
 
Hey guys it's me your favorite headcase. So I decided to add 25mg a day of REAL anavar to my trt protocol which is 200mg test per week. I'm already losing my **** lol. I dunno why I can't handle anabolics anymore. I'm using L-Theanine and CBD oil to try and keep the anxiety at Bay. Fucking 25mg of anavar can you guys believe this. Incredible. Anyone got any other ways I can chill out lol

Have you gotten your hormone levels checked lately? Too much AI possibly? I get anxiety with DHTs sometimes when my estrogen is low. Even mild DHTs, for some people, can effect estrogen conversion. Like Proviron makes me super on edge, decently anxious and paranoid. It could just be DHTs in general that you have a problem with. My body really doesn’t like some of them. Too much DHT can make some people nuts.

Could be a spike in estrogen too. Some people get spikes in estrogen from compounds that they really shouldn’t, due to estrogen increasing via another mechanism. An example would be something thay doesn’t convert to estrogen itself, but increases free testosterone to a large degree, thus more estrogen gets converted from that free testosterone.

Try chamomile tea and melatonin to sleep.
 
Have you gotten your hormone levels checked lately? Too much AI possibly? I get anxiety with DHTs sometimes when my estrogen is low. Even mild DHTs, for some people, can effect estrogen conversion. Like Proviron makes me super on edge, decently anxious and paranoid. It could just be DHTs in general that you have a problem with. My body really doesn’t like some of them. Too much DHT can make some people nuts.

Could be a spike in estrogen too. Some people get spikes in estrogen from compounds that they really shouldn’t, due to estrogen increasing via another mechanism. An example would be something thay doesn’t convert to estrogen itself, but increases free testosterone to a large degree, thus more estrogen gets converted from that free testosterone.

Try chamomile tea and melatonin to sleep.

You know something dude I think you're right. Anytime I've used a DHT drug I go berserk. Procuring made me nuts and also DMZ the prohormone and also Epistane. All of these are DHT style drugs. When I did dbol I also had anxiety. They all mess with me but I think the DHT is worse. I know that normally on my trt and AI protocol my estradiol is like 20-30 where it should be. Do you think anavar is raising my estrogen or lowering it. Or do you think just the extra DHT is cranking me up. I think the DHT might just be pouring gas on the anxiety fire. Sometimes flares up my heart palpitations and I have to cut back on my coffee intake
 
You know something dude I think you're right. Anytime I've used a DHT drug I go berserk. Procuring made me nuts and also DMZ the prohormone and also Epistane. All of these are DHT style drugs. When I did dbol I also had anxiety. They all mess with me but I think the DHT is worse. I know that normally on my trt and AI protocol my estradiol is like 20-30 where it should be. Do you think anavar is raising my estrogen or lowering it. Or do you think just the extra DHT is cranking me up. I think the DHT might just be pouring gas on the anxiety fire. Sometimes flares up my heart palpitations and I have to cut back on my coffee intake

*Proviron
 
How much L-theanine are you using? I like to have it in powder cause' the recommended dosings with pills are way too low for me. I just take a spoon and scoop up few grams. You could add Aswagandha too, but I find it takes a few days to start working. Also Passion flower is worth a try.

Is the Anavar in tablets? You could cut one or two in to peaces and work your way up starting from very low dose. That's what I have to do with many products. I would assume Anavar to lower your E rather than elevate it.
 
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@Punkrocker how old/young are you, out of curiosity?




In my case it was mostly health related anxiety as i slowly come to realize that what i am doing has the potential to kill me. Thinking about how heart is gonna stall suddenly.

As my life got more fuked up and the majority of that fear was gone, i found myself running tren without major issues. Realizing you are just turning 24 and you basically wasted the prime years of your youth working sh1tty jobs, not having had enough fun and seriously underachieving with education and women can do that to you. Hit the rock bottom some would say.


Proviron made me euphoric, at 50mg a day yes, elevated heart rate constantly.
 
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Hey guys it's me your favorite headcase. So I decided to add 25mg a day of REAL anavar to my trt protocol which is 200mg test per week. I'm already losing my **** lol. I dunno why I can't handle anabolics anymore. I'm using L-Theanine and CBD oil to try and keep the anxiety at Bay. Fucking 25mg of anavar can you guys believe this. Incredible. Anyone got any other ways I can chill out lol

I get this from all orals, and when injectibles is higher than TRT. It just does that to some of us. Maybe try and counter it, GABA, Phenibut (can be an issue on its own), I honestly find this works best for me while not making me tired. But yes, I just stay away from everything and stick w/ TRT only...

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I get this from all orals, and when injectibles is higher than TRT. It just does that to some of us. Maybe try and counter it, GABA, Phenibut (can be an issue on its own), I honestly find this works best for me while not making me tired. But yes, I just stay away from everything and stick w/ TRT only...

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Phenibut is very effective, but I wouldn't (and won't) use it more than 2 x a week max (I use it for sleep). Tolerance builds quick and the withdrawal can be a nightmare.
 
How much L-theanine are you using? I like to have it in powder cause' the recommended dosings with pills are way too low for me. I just take a spoon and scoop few grams. You could add Aswagandha too, but I find it takes a few days to start working. Also Passion flower is worth a try.

Is the Anavar in tablets? You could cut one or two in to peaces and work your way up starting from very low dose. That's what I have to do with many products. I would assume Anavar to lower your E rather than elevate it.

The anavar is liquid..I'm taking the equivalent of 8mg 3 times a day. Super low dosing. One thing I'm noticing is that my libido is actually improving while I'm on the anavar. Usually my libido is DEAD. I been abstaining from Jackin off and porn because I was sure that I destroyed my dopamine center with it but now that I'm on anavar I'm getting horny again. Not as much as I'd like to be of course but hey I'll take what I can get lol. Anyway if my e2 was crashed I don't think my libido would be good.
 
The anavar is liquid..I'm taking the equivalent of 8mg 3 times a day. Super low dosing. One thing I'm noticing is that my libido is actually improving while I'm on the anavar. Usually my libido is DEAD. I been abstaining from Jackin off and porn because I was sure that I destroyed my dopamine center with it but now that I'm on anavar I'm getting horny again. Not as much as I'd like to be of course but hey I'll take what I can get lol. Anyway if my e2 was crashed I don't think my libido would be good.

Testosterone levels have been known to increase while On Anavar.
 
The anavar is liquid..I'm taking the equivalent of 8mg 3 times a day. Super low dosing. One thing I'm noticing is that my libido is actually improving while I'm on the anavar. Usually my libido is DEAD. I been abstaining from Jackin off and porn because I was sure that I destroyed my dopamine center with it but now that I'm on anavar I'm getting horny again. Not as much as I'd like to be of course but hey I'll take what I can get lol. Anyway if my e2 was crashed I don't think my libido would be good.
Most dht products improve libido. And I wasn't saying Anavar would crash your E2, if that's what you were referring. But for your question on wether it raises or lowers oestrogen, I'm assuming it lowers, as dht products can do that. Probably won't have a big impact though.
 
That's free T levels?

Here's a couple of articles.
This one specifically refers to SHBG:

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TWO THINGS:

1. I realize the limitations of these two trials, and how the participants differ from us.

2. NOBODY SHOULD EVER TAKE ANAVAR HOPING TO INCREASE THEIR TESTOSTERONE.
 
Mmmm... If I remember right, it was Total Test, but I would expect that free Test would also rise while on Anavar.
Ok, that's interesting 🤔 The rise in free T is expected with dht derivatives, due to shbg binding to dht and thus leaving more unbound T. But maybe the body won't convert T as much to dht when exogenous dht is introduced and thus resulting in higher T levels.
 
You're welcome :) KetoShop.com
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You know something dude I think you're right. Anytime I've used a DHT drug I go berserk. Procuring made me nuts and also DMZ the prohormone and also Epistane. All of these are DHT style drugs. When I did dbol I also had anxiety. They all mess with me but I think the DHT is worse. I know that normally on my trt and AI protocol my estradiol is like 20-30 where it should be. Do you think anavar is raising my estrogen or lowering it. Or do you think just the extra DHT is cranking me up. I think the DHT might just be pouring gas on the anxiety fire. Sometimes flares up my heart palpitations and I have to cut back on my coffee intake

I think that IF a fluctuation in estrogen is occurring, it’s more likely that Anavar would lower it. If the problem is a response to hormone fluctuation, the most likely cause in my opinion would be that your body just doesn’t like DHT. But I’m not convinced that’s the case.

Also, maybe you personally need more estrogen than most guys. Some guys feel better in the lower range, some guys feel better in the higher range. Personally, I think if you continue with the Anavar, you should try backing down your AI dosage a little bit or spacing the doses slightly further apart and see if that helps at all. If you’re running the same protocol but you’ve introduced a DHT that is binding up SHBG, it’s likely that you need less AI due to less estrogen conversion taking place.

There’s also the possibility that your body just doesn’t like orals. On stronger things like Msten and DMZ, I always feel a tad bit more on edge, more prone to anxiety and mild depression. It’s not uncommon for orals to make people feel that way, but for most people it’s not bad enough that they can’t tolerate it. My theory is it has something to do with how the toxicity of the compounds affects the liver and other organs’ abilities to dispose of the drugs, leading to a buildup that affects the microbiome in the gut. There are a few great newer studies that found that the bacteria present in the gut has a correlation to mental health, which is pretty fascinating actually. Like I personally get a little bit messed up emotionally every time I take an antibiotic, similar to the way strong orals affect me. I took a Zpack one time for pneumonia and had a borderline mental breakdown.

You could also try a good probiotic blend and TUDCA. I think that might really help.
 
I think that IF a fluctuation in estrogen is occurring, it’s more likely that Anavar would lower it. If the problem is a response to hormone fluctuation, the most likely cause in my opinion would be that your body just doesn’t like DHT. But I’m not convinced that’s the case.

Also, maybe you personally need more estrogen than most guys. Some guys feel better in the lower range, some guys feel better in the higher range. Personally, I think if you continue with the Anavar, you should try backing down your AI dosage a little bit or spacing the doses slightly further apart and see if that helps at all. If you’re running the same protocol but you’ve introduced a DHT that is binding up SHBG, it’s likely that you need less AI due to less estrogen conversion taking place.

There’s also the possibility that your body just doesn’t like orals. On stronger things like Msten and DMZ, I always feel a tad bit more on edge, more prone to anxiety and mild depression. It’s not uncommon for orals to make people feel that way, but for most people it’s not bad enough that they can’t tolerate it. My theory is it has something to do with how the toxicity of the compounds affects the liver and other organs’ abilities to dispose of the drugs, leading to a buildup that affects the microbiome in the gut. There are a few great newer studies that found that the bacteria present in the gut has a correlation to mental health, which is pretty fascinating actually. Like I personally get a little bit messed up emotionally every time I take an antibiotic, similar to the way strong orals affect me. I took a Zpack one time for pneumonia and had a borderline mental breakdown.

You could also try a good probiotic blend and TUDCA. I think that might really help.

I got tudca coming in the mail for liver support. Also I been using a combo of CBD+L-theanine and it seems to be keeping me at Bay actually. Also some guys at the gym told me I been looking pretty good lately so it's definitely working. So far I'm feeling tolerable so I won't adjust my AI since I'm decent for now. I'll take this day by day but so far so good and I appreciate everyone's input. Seriously thank god for all you guys
 
Have you gotten your hormone levels checked lately? Too much AI possibly? I get anxiety with DHTs sometimes when my estrogen is low. Even mild DHTs, for some people, can effect estrogen conversion. Like Proviron makes me super on edge, decently anxious and paranoid. It could just be DHTs in general that you have a problem with. My body really doesn’t like some of them. Too much DHT can make some people nuts.

Could be a spike in estrogen too. Some people get spikes in estrogen from compounds that they really shouldn’t, due to estrogen increasing via another mechanism. An example would be something thay doesn’t convert to estrogen itself, but increases free testosterone to a large degree, thus more estrogen gets converted from that free testosterone.

Try chamomile tea and melatonin to sleep.
I’m with you on anything DHT based. Azinol and Dymethazine give me full blown panic attacks. Safe to say no more DHT derivatives for me.
 
I’m with you on anything DHT based. Azinol and Dymethazine give me full blown panic attacks. Safe to say no more DHT derivatives for me.

When I did DMZ I went so crazy. It was anxiety non stop which is a huge shame Because the results on DMZ were PHENOMENAL
 
When I did DMZ I went so crazy. It was anxiety non stop which is a huge shame Because the results on DMZ were PHENOMENAL
If you can believe it, I put on 10 pounds in 2 weeks at 12 mg before stopping.... not the 30-45 most guys run. I was blown away!
 
If you can believe it, I put on 10 pounds in 2 weeks at 12 mg before stopping.... not the 30-45 most guys run. I was blown away!

Yeah bro same. I used the smallest dose and was strong as an ox but I literally could not stay calm. I was dizzy and had tunnel vision and everything lol the anavar is giving me anxiety but nothing like the dmz. The dmz literally made me insane
 
Yeah bro same. I used the smallest dose and was strong as an ox but I literally could not stay calm. I was dizzy and had tunnel vision and everything lol the anavar is giving me anxiety but nothing like the dmz. The dmz literally made me insane

I've heard several guys say the same about DMZ anxiety.
Thankfully it didn't effect me that way.
And neither does Anavar.
 
Yo, @Whisky bro, i the were buddies...

On the topic, it seems that dht derivatives cause anxiety. Masteron did for me, way more than tren (which actually didnt). Crashing e2 sends anxiety through the roof (consequently dht shoots up).

Who is to say that your anavar isnt indeed winstrol?

When I did DMZ I went so crazy. It was anxiety non stop which is a huge shame Because the results on DMZ were PHENOMENAL
I know the feeling. You wanna jump out of your own skin. You feel like you are about to get your sh1t snapped all the time. Also paranoia. "These damn women looking at me like that they are prolly up for sth" and then you feel threatened feel like everyone is out to get you hahaha

The anavar is liquid..I'm taking the equivalent of 8mg 3 times a day. Super low dosing. One thing I'm noticing is that my libido is actually improving while I'm on the anavar. Usually my libido is DEAD. I been abstaining from Jackin off and porn because I was sure that I destroyed my dopamine center with it but now that I'm on anavar I'm getting horny again. Not as much as I'd like to be of course but hey I'll take what I can get lol. Anyway if my e2 was crashed I don't think my libido would be good.
Have you ever tried hcg?

Some time ago i stumbled upon a statement that exogenous testosterone has troubles crossing blood brain barrier, hence some people dont have any libido while on trt/cycle. Just browse through the internet, tons of people who complain they have 0 libido on trt.

Take this with a huge grain of salt as it sounds sketchy at best, but is intriguing considering my case as I am certainly one of those people and neither masteron, tren, proviron help, 0.

I actually just started a cycle because i need to be in a photoshoot of a kind (yep read that right) with my buddies and i need to look a bit better but immediately, like the nnext day after 1st test injection libido dead as fuk. Sense of calmness and numb d1ck, thats what i get from test, ha, who would have said that.

Seriously considering trying pt 141 but am scared of potential side effects reported such as depression and complete anhedonia.


Only thing that ever helped was hcg.
 
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Yo, @Whisky bro, i the were buddies...

On the topic, it seems that dht derivatives cause anxiety. Masteron did for me, way more than tren (which actually didnt). Crashing e2 sends anxiety through the roof (consequently dht shoots up).

Who is to say that your anavar isnt indeed winstrol?


I know the feeling. You wanna jump out of your own skin. You feel like you are about to get your sh1t snapped all the time. Also paranoia. "These damn women looking at me like that they are prolly up for sth" and then you feel threatened feel like everyone is out to get you hahaha


Have you ever tried hcg?

Some time ago i stumbled upon a statement that exogenous testosterone has troubles crossing blood brain barrier, hence some people dont have any libido while on trt/cycle. Just browse through the internet, tons of people who complain they have 0 libido on trt.

Take this with a huge grain of salt as it sounds sketchy at best, but is intriguing considering my case as I am certainly one of those people and neither masteron, tren, proviron help, 0.

I actually just started a cycle because i need to be in a photoshoot of a kind (yep read that right) with my buddies and i need to look a bit better but immediately, like the nnext day after 1st test injection libido dead as fuk. Sense of calmness and numb d1ck, thats what i get from test, ha, who would have said that.

Seriously considering trying pt 141 but am scared of potential side effects reported such as depression and complete anhedonia.


Only thing that ever helped was hcg.

we are my friend, you are my favourite headcase by far. I say that with love bro 😘
 
@Punkrocker how old/young are you, out of curiosity?




In my case it was mostly health related anxiety as i slowly come to realize that what i am doing has the potential to kill me. Thinking about how heart is gonna stall suddenly.

As my life got more fuked up and the majority of that fear was gone, i found myself running tren without major issues. Realizing you are just turning 24 and you basically wasted the prime years of your youth working sh1tty jobs, not having had enough fun and seriously underachieving with education and women can do that to you. Hit the rock bottom some would say.


Proviron made me euphoric, at 50mg a day yes, elevated heart rate constantly.
Better to figure it out at 24 than 30. I'm having my 1/3 life crisis lol
 
If you can believe it, I put on 10 pounds in 2 weeks at 12 mg before stopping.... not the 30-45 most guys run. I was blown away!

You sure it wasn’t water retention due to estrogen? That’s a lot of weight quickly and estrogen can give you pretty bad anxiety. DMZ isn’t “supposed” to do that, but it’s happened to me before.
 
I've heard several guys say the same about DMZ anxiety.
Thankfully it didn't effect me that way.
And neither does Anavar.
[/QUOTE
You sure it wasn’t water retention due to estrogen? That’s a lot of weight quickly and estrogen can give you pretty bad anxiety. DMZ isn’t “supposed” to do that, but it’s happened to me before.
most of it was absolutely water glycogen. Went from 161 to 183, now I fluctuate between 169-171 as I’m eating maintenance calories. The weight gain itself wasn’t what shocked me it was the dose.
 
Hey do you guys think I should be running liver support on 25mg a day of anavar? Or is that a waste of time. I think it's not necessary, what do u guys think?
 
Hey do you guys think I should be running liver support on 25mg a day of anavar? Or is that a waste of time. I think it's not necessary, what do u guys think?
Honestly everyone’s different. TUDCA isn’t too expensive. Maybe 250-500 mg a day just to play it safe. I feel like you’ll be completely fine anavar is pretty light in terms of toxicity.
 
Honestly everyone’s different. TUDCA isn’t too expensive. Maybe 250-500 mg a day just to play it safe. I feel like you’ll be completely fine anavar is pretty light in terms of toxicity.

Yeah actually I have some tudca but apparently supposedly a side effect of tudca is that it can lower your HDL cholesterol and as we know anavar already does that. So now I am skeptical on taking it as I don't want a double whammy on my cardiac profile and is it even worth it if 25 mg of anavar is so light anyway and I don't drink or use drugs or anything. I plan on staying on for about six weeks and I do not plan on making the dose any higher. I'm pretty sure people have used anavar for six weeks or longer at higher doses without support and did not have any problem right?
 
Yeah actually I have some tudca but apparently supposedly a side effect of tudca is that it can lower your HDL cholesterol and as we know anavar already does that. So now I am skeptical on taking it as I don't want a double whammy on my cardiac profile and is it even worth it if 25 mg of anavar is so light anyway and I don't drink or use drugs or anything. I plan on staying on for about six weeks and I do not plan on making the dose any higher. I'm pretty sure people have used anavar for six weeks or longer at higher doses without support and did not have any problem right?
Oh man I know people that have ran it for 12! Not really worth it I’m not sure why people do it but it’s been done safely. In terms of your lipid panel, unless you have a history of heart problems in your family, don’t worry about it. It returns to normal after the cycle has finished and if you run a proper pct SERMs have a positive effect on cholesterol if I remember correctly. Any steroid will make your blood work look scary, what really matters are your genetics and what you are prone to. Definitely get blood work done before you even start. Regardless of all that, I definitely think you’re good to go without using TUDCA especially at such a low dose.
 
most of it was absolutely water glycogen. Went from 161 to 183, now I fluctuate between 169-171 as I’m eating maintenance calories. The weight gain itself wasn’t what shocked me it was the dose.

Well the dose is part of the reason I asked because it sounds like something else might have been going on. I mean, everybody is different and it’s possible that it was nothing, but if I was personally running such a low dose of DMZ and had that much water retention with simultaneous anxiety and emotional side effects, I would start taking an AI.
 
Well the dose is part of the reason I asked because it sounds like something else might have been going on. I mean, everybody is different and it’s possible that it was nothing, but if I was personally running such a low dose of DMZ and had that much water retention with simultaneous anxiety and emotional side effects, I would start taking an AI.
That’s a highly questionable approach, at least for my situation. DMZ already lowers estrogen like most DHT derivatives, and low estrogen leads to increased anxiety and mental issues in some, clearly me haha. Crashing it further with an AI sounds like an awful idea. To be honest, once I started my pct my anxiety got even worse because it decreased further, that’s when I had my worst panic attack. Luckily I was able to push through, but it’s worth noting that low estrogen has a lot to do with these side effects. Clomid is a prime example of this. For some it causes depression for others god awful anxiety. I was honestly pretty dry the whole time so a majority of the weight lost post cycle was glycogen, and I’m sure some was intracellular water retention. I’d say it would be a good idea if the anxiety wasn’t the main side effect. Stopped the tamoxifen a few days ago and I’m feeling a lot better. And based on how my body responded to the serm (nuts hypertrophied back to normal size in 4 days) I’d say adding anything else to my pct could have given me a shitty estrogen rebound. But hey like you said everyone is different! I clearly have some strange genetics and am very sensitive to these compounds. Safe to say halodrol for my next cycle and I’m all stocked up on it. Sadly I’m stocked up on a ton of DHT derivatives that I’m afraid to run now because they are even more powerful than DMZ.
 
That’s a highly questionable approach, at least for my situation. DMZ already lowers estrogen like most DHT derivatives, and low estrogen leads to increased anxiety and mental issues in some, clearly me haha. Crashing it further with an AI sounds like an awful idea. To be honest, once I started my pct my anxiety got even worse because it decreased further, that’s when I had my worst panic attack. Luckily I was able to push through, but it’s worth noting that low estrogen has a lot to do with these side effects. Clomid is a prime example of this. For some it causes depression for others god awful anxiety. I was honestly pretty dry the whole time so a majority of the weight lost post cycle was glycogen, and I’m sure some was intracellular water retention. I’d say it would be a good idea if the anxiety wasn’t the main side effect. Stopped the tamoxifen a few days ago and I’m feeling a lot better. And based on how my body responded to the serm (nuts hypertrophied back to normal size in 4 days) I’d say adding anything else to my pct could have given me a shitty estrogen rebound. But hey like you said everyone is different! I clearly have some strange genetics and am very sensitive to these compounds. Safe to say halodrol for my next cycle and I’m all stocked up on it. Sadly I’m stocked up on a ton of DHT derivatives that I’m afraid to run now because they are even more powerful than DMZ.

What would be a polar opposite of a DHT derivative that would most likely not mess with anxiety so much?
 
What would be a polar opposite of a DHT derivative that would most likely not mess with anxiety so much?
Dbol, Tbol, Halodrol etc. These are just testosterone derivatives, to say they would have a polar opposite effect on anxiety, I wouldn’t make that claim personally. I’m not a doctor and again everyone responds very differently to compounds. It just seems to be common place that DHTs have this effect on a lot of people, and again crash E2 which is not good from a mental health standpoint as a male.
 
Dbol, Tbol, Halodrol etc. These are just testosterone derivatives, to say they would have a polar opposite effect on anxiety, I wouldn’t make that claim personally. I’m not a doctor and again everyone responds very differently to compounds. It just seems to be common place that DHTs have this effect on a lot of people, and again crash E2 which is not good from a mental health standpoint as a male.

Welp I've taken dbol. Made my anxiety worse too lol guess I'm screwed no matter what I take
 
That’s a highly questionable approach, at least for my situation. DMZ already lowers estrogen like most DHT derivatives, and low estrogen leads to increased anxiety and mental issues in some, clearly me haha. Crashing it further with an AI sounds like an awful idea. To be honest, once I started my pct my anxiety got even worse because it decreased further, that’s when I had my worst panic attack. Luckily I was able to push through, but it’s worth noting that low estrogen has a lot to do with these side effects. Clomid is a prime example of this. For some it causes depression for others god awful anxiety. I was honestly pretty dry the whole time so a majority of the weight lost post cycle was glycogen, and I’m sure some was intracellular water retention. I’d say it would be a good idea if the anxiety wasn’t the main side effect. Stopped the tamoxifen a few days ago and I’m feeling a lot better. And based on how my body responded to the serm (nuts hypertrophied back to normal size in 4 days) I’d say adding anything else to my pct could have given me a shitty estrogen rebound. But hey like you said everyone is different! I clearly have some strange genetics and am very sensitive to these compounds. Safe to say halodrol for my next cycle and I’m all stocked up on it. Sadly I’m stocked up on a ton of DHT derivatives that I’m afraid to run now because they are even more powerful than DMZ.

I wasn’t suggesting that approach for you. I’m saying that’s the approach I would take if I started holding an extreme amount of water on a low dose of something while simultaneously having anxiety and depression. Those are side effects almost always indicative of high estrogen in my experience.

I have experienced more than once DMZ increasing my estrogen. I’ve also seen it in others. DMZ doesn’t automatically lower estrogen just because it’s a DHT derivative. In fact, there’s really no evidence that points to the conclusion that it lowers estrogen at all. If something was lowering your estrogen, you wouldn’t be holding that much fluid period.

Not all DHTs lower estrogen. Most AAS can increase estrogen by more than one mechanism, especially if you’re running other compounds with them, if your other doses or test base are too high, or if you’re predisposed genetically to higher estrogen conversion like it sounds like you actually may be.

As for the part about your post cycle, I’m not sure where you got the idea that Clomid decreases estrogen. If anything, it’s been shown to do the exact opposite of decreasing estrogen. When your testosterone production increases via a SERM, some will be converted to estrogen. SERMs block estrogen receptors, they don’t decrease estrogen levels. All of that estrogen is still circulating whether the receptors are blocked or not.

I could be wrong, but it’s definitely starting to sound like you’re confusing all of your high estrogen side effects with low estrogen. I had to learn the hard way too when I first started dabbling in this world, not knowing for sure and winging it on my own without bloodwork. Just trying to help a bro eliminate some guess work.
 
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I wasn’t suggesting that approach for you. I’m saying that’s the approach I would take if I started holding an extreme amount of water on a low dose of something while simultaneously having anxiety and depression. Those are side effects almost always indicative of high estrogen in my experience.

I have experienced more than once DMZ increasing my estrogen. I’ve also seen it in others. DMZ doesn’t automatically lower estrogen just because it’s a DHT derivative. In fact, there’s really no evidence that points to the conclusion that it lowers estrogen at all. If something was lowering your estrogen, you wouldn’t be holding that much fluid period.

Not all DHTs lower estrogen. Most AAS can increase estrogen by more than one mechanism, especially if you’re running other compounds with them, if your other doses or test base is too high, or if you’re predisposed genetically to higher estrogen conversion like it sounds like you actually may be.

As for the part about your post cycle, I’m not sure where you got the idea that Clomid decreases estrogen. If anything, it’s been shown to do the exact opposite of decreasing estrogen. When your testosterone production increases via a SERM, some will be converted to estrogen. SERMs block estrogen receptors, they don’t decrease estrogen levels. All of that estrogen is still circulating whether the receptors are blocked or not.

I could be wrong, but it’s definitely starting to sound like you’re confusing all of your high estrogen side effects with low estrogen. I had to learn the hard way too when I first starting dabbling in this world, not knowing for sure and winging it on my own without bloodwork. Just trying to help a bro eliminate some guess work.

Thanks man.

There's been some bad advice on the board tonight
Glad to see someone come in and straighten some of it out.
 
Better to figure it out at 24 than 30. I'm having my 1/3 life crisis lol
ha, humans...never content. I wish I was 21.


On a brighter side, neither you or me probably wont live long enough to witness our own total, unable to take care of yourself physical collapse...actually am finding this comforting in a way.

You rock till your last moment and just boom gone, no suffering.
 
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I wasn’t suggesting that approach for you. I’m saying that’s the approach I would take if I started holding an extreme amount of water on a low dose of something while simultaneously having anxiety and depression. Those are side effects almost always indicative of high estrogen in my experience.

I have experienced more than once DMZ increasing my estrogen. I’ve also seen it in others. DMZ doesn’t automatically lower estrogen just because it’s a DHT derivative. In fact, there’s really no evidence that points to the conclusion that it lowers estrogen at all. If something was lowering your estrogen, you wouldn’t be holding that much fluid period.

Not all DHTs lower estrogen. Most AAS can increase estrogen by more than one mechanism, especially if you’re running other compounds with them, if your other doses or test base are too high, or if you’re predisposed genetically to higher estrogen conversion like it sounds like you actually may be.

As for the part about your post cycle, I’m not sure where you got the idea that Clomid decreases estrogen. If anything, it’s been shown to do the exact opposite of decreasing estrogen. When your testosterone production increases via a SERM, some will be converted to estrogen. SERMs block estrogen receptors, they don’t decrease estrogen levels. All of that estrogen is still circulating whether the receptors are blocked or not.

I could be wrong, but it’s definitely starting to sound like you’re confusing all of your high estrogen side effects with low estrogen. I had to learn the hard way too when I first started dabbling in this world, not knowing for sure and winging it on my own without bloodwork. Just trying to help a bro eliminate some guess work.
No I understand brother. I appreciate everything you said that’s why I came here! Love conversing over this stuff. I do get blood work but I live in Massachusetts so to do it as often as I need to I have to go through a private lab because insurance sure as hell won’t cover me getting it done once a month. I know all serms are different, I thought that tamoxifen was supposed to prevent estrogen from binding to receptors? Whether or not the increase test aromatizes into estrogen it can’t bind to its site rendering it useless so the brain still thinks there is almost no estrogen in the body. That was my understanding at least. I could be wrong.
 
I could be wrong, but it’s definitely starting to sound like you’re confusing all of your high estrogen side effects with low estrogen. I had to learn the hard way too when I first started dabbling in this world, not knowing for sure and winging it on my own without bloodwork. Just trying to help a bro eliminate some guess work.

I know that I do this a lot! The symptoms for both scenarios are overlapping and can easily mislead. I once was convinced that my e2 was through the roof but blood work showed the opposite, I was just a point away from being below range.
 
Thanks man.

There's been some bad advice on the board tonight
Glad to see someone come in and straighten some of it out.
Well again, it’s hard to give someone advice when as we all know these compounds can have drastically different effects in different individuals. As humans, we don’t know a whole lot about these drugs and it’s sad. I’m speaking based on only my personal experiences and bloods. That’s why I made it clear I’m not a doctor and emphasized the point I made above. All I know is DHT itself lowers E2 by two mechanisms and it’s derivatives can as well. Never said they all do 100% of the time for every individual. That would be bad advice hahaha
 
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