Having trouble making a decision on my cycle

[Mathb33]

You erased your post somehow but here it is "That’s what I was prescribed bro and it wasn’t from some bullshit online TRT doctor . 200mg deca and 250mg test is a very mild dose and there is very low risk at that dosage even long term. I just don’t see any point of doing less than 200mg deca per week unless you are a woman. 250/200 is not even close to abuse even long term use at that dose any less than that you may as well get some smilax and call it a day." whatever you say you just proved anyone that’s knowledgeable that you’re a ***** that knows ABSOLUTELY NOTHING on testosterone therapy, hormones and steroids. Jesus you don’t understand how ***** you sound when we read this.

 

[Mathb33]

Hopefully you’re just trolling. Anyways I’m out of this thread

 

[shanewilliams]

Coming from the guy who says the OP will be dead by 50 from running 250 test/ 200 deca. That’s why I was clowning you because of the way you went at him.

 

[Zvch]

Coming from the guy who says the OP will be dead by 50 from running 250 test/ 200 deca. That’s why I was clowning you because of the way you went at him.

Do you know how uncommon it is to even get prescribed 200mg or more of testosterone a week? 250 is borderline unheard of. 250/200 something only a ForHims clinic or Marc Lobliner’s doctor would prescribe. A lot of these places have overseas doctors on payroll who fly in and fill out hundreds of prescriptions and then leave. That isn’t medical practice. It’s drug dealing with a legislative loophole.

The point that I think he was trying to make was that type of behavior will kill you by 50 if it continues unchecked, not that specific dose itself. We all know our doses don’t decrease or stay the same when we’re getting away with it and they’re not causing any immediate side effects.

 

[Rad83]

^^Marc L was first dude I thought of during this!

 

[Zvch]

^^Marc L was first dude I thought of during this!

I mean I used to watch his stuff when I first got into anabolics until I realized he was full of ****, regardless of how funny he has can be. I thought the doses he was rattling off were normal when he first started with that clinic too, that’s why I’m empathizing with this guy. His clinic literally has a promo code for his viewers on their website.

 

[Rad83]

I mean I used to watch his stuff when I first got into anabolics until I realized he was full of ****, regardless of how funny he has can be. I thought the doses he was rattling off were normal when he first started with that clinic too, that’s why I’m empathizing with this guy. His clinic literally has a promo code for his viewers on their website.

Agree


Lotta guys now have their own clinic...
MorePlates dude, the Russo dude is a part of one...

 

[shanewilliams]

Yes they have come down on that hard as the doctor I was talking about is known in the BB community and was here in NYC. He was around forever but I found out about him about 4 years ago and he wound up getting arrested and I believe he still had his license but can prescribe TRT anymore. He put me on 400mg test and 200mg deca. I really done see any benefit as far as bodybuilding if you go less than that. 150mg is what you should using for TRT as some of that weight is the ester. I guess the 100mg deca with that would be for the joints but you’re not going to see much as far as body recomp.

 

[Whisky]

doctors will prescribe you 250/200. My point is that it’s a long way from a cycle that will kill you by 50. The OP asked for advice on his cycle and that was an ignorant statement,

doctors will (should) prescribe an amount that puts your test levels within range.

no one is saying that 250mg a week is a crazy amount (math himself has said he cruises on 200-250 somewhere in this thread or another one recently) but it’s simply not as healthy as a lower dose that keeps you in a normal range (very few people would need 200mg test to be in range).

if your goal is maximum mass and your prepared to accept a shorter lifespan to achieve it then fine but be eyes open that’s the trade off. Cruising at 250mg will shorten lifespan, high test is correlated with shorter lifespan, we know mtor activation is correlated with shorter life span, that’s just how it is.

so the advice to drop to a proper trt dose for health reasons is valid and correct. If OP had said he wanted to compete and health wasn’t a primary concern then the advice changes but that’s not the case here

 

[shanewilliams]

doctors will (should) prescribe an amount that puts your test levels within range.

no one is saying that 250mg a week is a crazy amount (math himself has said he cruises on 200-250 somewhere in this thread or another one recently) but it’s simply not as healthy as a lower dose that keeps you in a normal range (very few people would need 200mg test to be in range).

if your goal is maximum mass and your prepared to accept a shorter lifespan to achieve it then fine but be eyes open that’s the trade off. Cruising at 250mg will shorten lifespan, high test is correlated with shorter lifespan, we know mtor activation is correlated with shorter life span, that’s just how it is.

so the advice to drop to a proper trt dose for health reasons is valid and correct. If OP had said he wanted to compete and health wasn’t a primary concern then the advice changes but that’s not the case here

Fair enough but competitive bodybuilders are using far greater dosages than even guys looking to pack on some muscle. You realize that most steroid users and abusers don’t compete. He’s used gear 20 years so I was assuming he didn’t want a trt dosage. His cycle design was a total mess so I figure yes either he can go to a trt of 150mg test a week or at least do something safe and effective like primo/test.

 

[shanewilliams]

So- as far as a safe stack goes to let’s say burn some fat while maintaining mass his would you guys suggest you dose the test? I’ve seen a thread where someone suggested 600mg npp per week with very little test. I do agree that high test should be avoided over 40 . I mean running my test much lower than something else.

 

[Whisky]

Fair enough but competitive bodybuilders are using far greater dosages than even guys looking to pack on some muscle. You realize that most steroid users and abusers don’t compete. He’s used gear 20 years so I was assuming he didn’t want a trt dosage. His cycle design was a total mess so I figure yes either he can go to a trt of 150mg test a week or at least do something safe and effective like primo/test.

yeah for sure most people abusing steroids don’t compete but to my mind that’s the worst outcome, you aren’t earning from the stress you place on your body (which would at least be a significant upside) but you get all the health downsides......

it’s definitely horses for courses, if OP wants to walk round all year with significantly more mass than his natural level then a trt dose won’t cut it

But (and this is just my opinion) if he wants to stay as healthy as possible while looking better than average with lean mass a bit above what he could do naturally then dropping to a high range type test dose (probably between 150 and 200mg for most) for those cruise periods is going to be optimal imo.

I’m a similar age to OP and as I’ve aged my general health and functionality in my 60s and 70s becomes more forefront in my mind.

 

[shanewilliams]

yeah for sure most people abusing steroids don’t compete but to my mind that’s the worst outcome, you aren’t earning from the stress you place on your body (which would at least be a significant upside) but you get all the health downsides......

it’s definitely horses for courses, if OP wants to walk round all year with significantly more mass than his natural level then a trt dose won’t cut it

But (and this is just my opinion) if he wants to stay as healthy as possible while looking better than average with lean mass a bit above what he could do naturally then dropping to a high range type test dose (probably between 150 and 200mg for most) for those cruise periods is going to be optimal imo.

I’m a similar age to OP and as I’ve aged my general health and functionality in my 60s and 70s becomes more forefront in my mind.

Well first of all I’d like to apologize to everyone for coming off as I did last night. I know I came across As a dick but was just being awise ass I guess because I basically agree with your opinion here. I just turned 50 and yes I’ve abused steroids and like you I just want to live a healthy life or as healthy as possible at this point- while MAINTAINING as much mass as possible while burning some fat. Quite a task when you have done decades of gear.
I’m also humbled by some of the knowledge in this thread and that has actually caused me to reconsider my approach moving forward. Going back to my debate with some of you guys- my point is- at over 40 does it even make sense to use test at 250-400mg per week? Is it better just to stay at a trt level and use other drugs like primo, boldenone, nandrolone, var as the enhancer Let’s say maintain TRT dosage all the time but cycle on and off using more anabolic yielding drugs. Maybe that’s safer and more effective? I just think it’s more effective doung that than using 400mgs test and 200mg deca which I would consider less effective.

 

[KvanH]

Well first of all I’d like to apologize to everyone for coming off as I did last night. I know I came across As a dick but was just being awise ass I guess because I basically agree with your opinion here. I just turned 50 and yes I’ve abused steroids and like you I just want to live a healthy life or as healthy as possible at this point- while MAINTAINING as much mass as possible while burning some fat. Quite a task when you have done decades of gear.
I’m also humbled by some of the knowledge in this thread and that has actually caused me to reconsider my approach moving forward. Going back to my debate with some of you guys- my point is- at over 40 does it even make sense to use test at 250-400mg per week? Is it better just to stay at a trt level and use other drugs like primo, boldenone, nandrolone, var as the enhancer Let’s say maintain TRT dosage all the time but cycle on and off using more anabolic yielding drugs. Maybe that’s safer and more effective? I just think it’s more effective doung that than using 400mgs test and 200mg deca which I would consider less effective.

Props for owning your initial clumsy approach. We're all here to learn from each others and educate when possible. This whole 'game' is so much more than just about the most effective drugs for a particular goal in sight for the moment. I personally appreciate people voicing their concerns about anyone's AAS use/practicies, even when it happens to be catched between the lines and are not the main topic of the thread. Usually things get sorted out and more than one person will have more knowledge than before.

 

[Whisky]

Well first of all I’d like to apologize to everyone for coming off as I did last night. I know I came across As a dick but was just being awise ass I guess because I basically agree with your opinion here. I just turned 50 and yes I’ve abused steroids and like you I just want to live a healthy life or as healthy as possible at this point- while MAINTAINING as much mass as possible while burning some fat. Quite a task when you have done decades of gear.
I’m also humbled by some of the knowledge in this thread and that has actually caused me to reconsider my approach moving forward. Going back to my debate with some of you guys- my point is- at over 40 does it even make sense to use test at 250-400mg per week? Is it better just to stay at a trt level and use other drugs like primo, boldenone, nandrolone, var as the enhancer Let’s say maintain TRT dosage all the time but cycle on and off using more anabolic yielding drugs. Maybe that’s safer and more effective? I just think it’s more effective doung that than using 400mgs test and 200mg deca which I would consider less effective.

its all cool brother, I’m sure everyone will appreciate that post,.

I definitely think what’s going to be most effective could vary depending on individual response to compounds (like you might respond really well to test so using trt dosing but then running a 3 month blast with 600 test and plus something like var could be really effective, I respond well to 19nors so would include deca on any blast but would still keep my cruises at 150-160mg test).

probably the most important thing in my mind is regularly checking the health markers, especially at 40-50 plus. BP every few days or week as a minimum, comprehensive bloods every quarter (or at least when cruising then when blasting) etc goes a really long way to letting you know what impact you are having.

high BP unchecked for sustained periods can **** the kidneys which really is a problem, as long as liver values are back in range when cruising I’m ok with that. On a cruise though I want everything to be in range, that’s my prerequisite for considering a blast, of course if you find it’s taking longer to get health markers back to good levels it’s a clear sign to ease off the heavier doses or change to lighter compounds.

with your experience you’ll know how you respond to various compounds so imo if health is becoming more important it’s a case of trying to choose something that gives you the most bang for your buck (sorry that sounds like a really obvious statement, obviously not that easy).

injectables likely to be less damaging on the body than orals, nandrolone and test are bio identical and imo the body is best equipped to deal with those two over anything else. For me, something like 160mg test year round with 1-2, three to four month blasts of 500:500 test:deca a year is most likely to have the lowest health impact whilst retaining a body I’m happy with........

 

[shanewilliams]

Absolutely. I think a big problem is actually what started this debate which is cruising at the 250mgs of test e. Now I’m reconsidering how I might dose my transdermal. Does anyone know the actual hormone net in both test ace and test prop? I may opt to use one of those esters as opposed to test base

 

[Whisky]

Absolutely. I think a big problem is actually what started this debate which is cruising at the 250mgs of test e. Now I’m reconsidering how I might dose my transdermal. Does anyone know the actual hormone net in both test ace and test prop? I may opt to use one of those esters as opposed to test base

I think it’s higher than e or cyp (on the basis I think prop and are lighter esters) but not sure by how much bro

 

[shanewilliams]

I think it’s higher than e or cyp (on the basis I think prop and are lighter esters) but not sure by how much bro

Yeah you’re right on that. Most of the boards have threads with the charts - gonna have to dig lol thx

 

[Renew1]

Well, I got my topical spironolactone today, so I'm ready to start my cycle. I've been thinking of buying their 0.1% finasteride topical solution, but I think spiro will cut it.

So I know we got way off topic about my cruising protocols and proceedures, but I'd still like feedback from some of the knowledgable members on my original cycle in the first post? Do you think it's safe to use Masteron now with spiro on my side?

Invalid Link Removed

IMO, Nope.

IMO, if you're concerned about your hair, I'd stay off Masteron (No matter what else you're adding).

My opinion.

 

[shanewilliams]

IMO, Nope.

IMO, if you're concerned about your hair, I'd stay off Masteron (No matter what else you're adding).

My opinion.

LOL Yeah first of all if you look at your mothers father - that’s probably what your hairline will look like. If you are receding or he had a receding hairline or make pattern baldness masteron will only speed up the process.

 

[Renew1]

Well first of all I’d like to apologize to everyone for coming off as I did last night. I know I came across As a dick but was just being awise ass I guess because I basically agree with your opinion here. I just turned 50 and yes I’ve abused steroids and like you I just want to live a healthy life or as healthy as possible at this point- while MAINTAINING as much mass as possible while burning some fat. Quite a task when you have done decades of gear.
I’m also humbled by some of the knowledge in this thread and that has actually caused me to reconsider my approach moving forward. Going back to my debate with some of you guys- my point is- at over 40 does it even make sense to use test at 250-400mg per week? Is it better just to stay at a trt level and use other drugs like primo, boldenone, nandrolone, var as the enhancer Let’s say maintain TRT dosage all the time but cycle on and off using more anabolic yielding drugs. Maybe that’s safer and more effective? I just think it’s more effective doung that than using 400mgs test and 200mg deca which I would consider less effective.

Nobody on here holds grudges (for the most part)...

But a good move would be to roll through and erase some of that BS you posted, before another Newb comes along and actually takes that advice.

 

[KvanH]

IMO, Nope.

IMO, if you're concerned about your hair, I'd stay off Masteron (No matter what else you're adding).

My opinion.

Yeah I don't think Fina or Spiro or anything will outwork a strong dht compound regarding hair loss IF you are prone to it. But @RIPDanDuchaine seems to not be prone to it? Just afraid of it.. It's difficult to grab the essence of the issue here (for me at least) that has been spread out for 2 threads already. With 20 years of experience of AAS use don't you know by now if you'll have issues with hair shedding or not and with what products?

It's like the hair loss is a boogie monster that you've been told about, but don't know if it's actually there and are just looking for comforting words, so you get the courage to use what you want to use.

Not trying to be a douche here, just having trouble understanding what's going on here.

 

[Jinsun]

doctors will prescribe you 250/200. My point is that it’s a long way from a cycle that will kill you by 50. The OP asked for advice on his cycle and that was an ignorant statement,

You actually missed the point completely. It sounds like you just skimmed trough the thread and not actually read it. Stfu bro and stop polluting a thread that went completely well for the OP.

 

[Jinsun]

What's your opinion on primo on the hairline vs masteron?

Thanks for all the help btw.

Tbh, I think your cycle is going in the right direction. You are combining androgens that have different mechanism of action, to a point that is. You've got test, a DHT, a 19nor and a sarm. All four have somewhat different modalities and it's great you're combining them. You are also on the right path when it comes to the dosages. Seeing as you are planing a cut cycle, you don't need much. But if secretly you maybe want to recomp, then you need more.

However, you don't need 5 or 6 different androgens : ) Test + primo + tren is all you need. This is a perfect stack for cutting and maybe recomping a bit if you'll have kcal's high enoungh to do so. How much are you planing to lose and how long do you want to be in a cut?

250 test is great, don't go beyond this for a cut.
400 primo is perfect.
No idea on the trenavar, but I'd say what ever equates to 150 - 200 tren ace a week.

Tren is the most important androgen, in regards to cutting, that you've got lined up. A close second to it is primo. Var is also tied with primo, but you don't need it if you've got primo and tren. Ostarine and LGD just keep them for a future cycle. Ostarine can be hard on the liver and LGD isn't so innocent either.

How toxic is trenavar?

 

[Jinsun]

Just to add, I would use the 250, 400, 200, dosages to loose about 10kg in 3 months max. Realistically I'd say 8kg. But that's ending at 8 - 10% bf. If you need to loose more then 8, then I'd add GH or up the tren ...

 

[shanewilliams]

You actually missed the point completely. It sounds like you just skimmed trough the thread and not actually read it. Stfu bro and stop polluting a thread that went completely well for the OP.

You actually missed the point completely. It sounds like you just skimmed trough the thread and not actually read it. Stfu bro and stop polluting a thread that went completely well for the OP.

Didnt miss the point completely bro. Besides that I apologized for offending anyone so don’t need to hear about polluting a thread. I will go back to my point which I guess I had a difficult time expressing initially-

You actually missed the point completely. It sounds like you just skimmed trough the thread and not actually read it. Stfu bro and stop polluting a thread that went completely well for the OP.

No I didn’t miss the point and yes initially I did skim through a few posts and reacted because I honestly found this thread more informative to someone like myself than the OP. WIth that being said after taking more time to read through the thread in its entirety here is my conclusion-

1. OP did not list stats as far as height, weight, bf% approx and goals. I wouldn’t even try to give anyone advice without that info.

2. This is a steroid board so I will assume most guys here are interested in achieving more of a let’s say “jacked look” as supposed to an average joe with a tad more muscle. I could be wrong here but that’s just a guess. My original comment was sarcasm at someone who posted that 250mg test and 200mg deca cruise is a heart attack waiting to happen. The guy had a point and seems very knowledgeable but it’s a bit of an overeaction IMHO. Definitely good advice as far as TRT cruise dosing but that still doesn’t address the original questions it just criticizes the OP.

3. I still haven’t seen a post that provides a proper response to the OP as that would take me back to my first point which would be to ask for more info and personal goals.

4. Yes I went on a rant yesterday and that’s because everyone has different goals and willing to take different levels of health isk to achieve said goals. Steroids are a health risk regardless. There are risks in every aspect in this game that range from using newly developed peptides and Generic gh to injecting high volumes of UG primo or oils in general. What is doing more damage over 20 years? Cycling strictly with Ug oils that use Chinese raws even though you are doing it “safely” with pct and 7mg/day during cruise phases or running straight through with 200mg test/deca from a legit pharmacy?

 

[shanewilliams]

Last bump for any pros or vets on here who want to give me any final suggestions! I'm about to place my order!

Hey bro I didn’t see any info providing your height and weight , bf% and specific goals/target. You also stated you are limited to working out at home- is this due to Covid avd did you usually work out at a gym- just asking because if so then imagine you have limited equipment at home from what I read.

 

[Jinsun]

What is doing more damage over 20 years? Cycling strictly with Ug oils that use Chinese raws even though you are doing it “safely” with pct and 7mg/day during cruise phases or running straight through with 200mg test/deca from a legit pharmacy?

The chines raws, if I had to chose between those two options. But then again, why would I have to chose?? I choose 100mg/week of pharmacy test. Thank you, goodbye.

 

[shanewilliams]

The chines raws, if I had to chose between those two options. But then again, why would I have to chose?? I choose 100mg/week of pharmacy test. Thank you, goodbye.

That’s what you take and just that? If so you wouldn’t be here.

 

[shanewilliams]

The chines raws, if I had to chose between those two options. But then again, why would I have to chose?? I choose 100mg/week of pharmacy test. Thank you, goodbye.

I stand my statement that no one can’t give proper advice without more info from the OP. Did he provide stats or a pick that I skimmed past when I went through the thread again today? Maybe I missed it idk

 

[RIPDanDuchaine]

Wow this thread got off track. I'll answer the questions and ask some of my own below.

What are you thinking of ordering?

10ml of 250mg/ml test cyp
40ml of 100mg/ml primo
50 tabs of var (i'll be using it at 25mg/day)

Do you know how uncommon it is to even get prescribed 200mg or more of testosterone a week? 250 is borderline unheard of. 250/200 something only a ForHims clinic or Marc Lobliner’s doctor would prescribe. A lot of these places have overseas doctors on payroll who fly in and fill out hundreds of prescriptions and then leave. That isn’t medical practice. It’s drug dealing with a legislative loophole.

The point that I think he was trying to make was that type of behavior will kill you by 50 if it continues unchecked, not that specific dose itself. We all know our doses don’t decrease or stay the same when we’re getting away with it and they’re not causing any immediate side effects.

I'm kind of confused about your argument that 250 will kill you but 200 won't? Do you have any data on this or evidence or is this just conjecture/your personal experience?

Fair enough but competitive bodybuilders are using far greater dosages than even guys looking to pack on some muscle. You realize that most steroid users and abusers don’t compete. He’s used gear 20 years so I was assuming he didn’t want a trt dosage. His cycle design was a total mess so I figure yes either he can go to a trt of 150mg test a week or at least do something safe and effective like primo/test.

No, I don't want a TRT dosage on my cycle.

Absolutely. I think a big problem is actually what started this debate which is cruising at the 250mgs of test e. Now I’m reconsidering how I might dose my transdermal. Does anyone know the actual hormone net in both test ace and test prop? I may opt to use one of those esters as opposed to test base

There are a couple pretty good roid calculators out there that can help you try and figure that out.

Invalid Link Removed

This one will even plot your cycle!

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IMO, Nope.

IMO, if you're concerned about your hair, I'd stay off Masteron (No matter what else you're adding).

My opinion.

Point taken. I'm going with Primo. Wish me luck!

LOL Yeah first of all if you look at your mothers father - that’s probably what your hairline will look like. If you are receding or he had a receding hairline or make pattern baldness masteron will only speed up the process.

I have a slightly receeding hairline for which I'm on prp therapy for and i'm doing nizoral shampoo and i'll be adding 5% spiro along with that. But yeah, as I mentioned to @Renew1 - point taken. I was really looking forward to doing masteron and it's much cheaper, but hopefully the Primobolan will be a good substitute.

Yeah I don't think Fina or Spiro or anything will outwork a strong dht compound regarding hair loss IF you are prone to it. But @RIPDanDuchaine seems to not be prone to it? Just afraid of it.. It's difficult to grab the essence of the issue here (for me at least) that has been spread out for 2 threads already. With 20 years of experience of AAS use don't you know by now if you'll have issues with hair shedding or not and with what products?

The last 20 years have been me bulking. My metabolism finally slowed down so I'm cutting! So, this is my first serious DHT based AAS other than DHB (1-test). So, I'm a babe in the woods on this one. Luckily, I think I have enough compounds on my side to help me keep my hairline. Spiro is incredibly powerful at completely blocking the androgen receptors on the scalp.

[/QUOTE]

Just to add, I would use the 250, 400, 200, dosages to loose about 10kg in 3 months max. Realistically I'd say 8kg. But that's ending at 8 - 10% bf. If you need to loose more then 8, then I'd add GH or up the tren ...

Which compounds are you talking about?

1. OP did not list stats as far as height, weight, bf% approx and goals. I wouldn’t even try to give anyone advice without that info.

Sorry, I thought I posted this! I must have posted it in another thread and forgot to include it here.

I'm 220 (remember I'm on deca so a lot of that is bloat, I was 200 even before I started the test/deca cruise). So, I figure I'm about 200 really and my bf is around 29% That's unfortunately pretty high.

I'm working out at home because of covid but I have a weight bench with powerblocks, an exercise bike, and I can do calisthenics too.

I'm going to be doing those exercises (hopefully cardio daily) and I'm also going to be adding the following fat loss aids

T3 or T4 (can someone explain to me what the difference is between these) or possibly T2, then along with that I'm either going to be using an ECA so I can now get Bronkaid Max, or I'm going to be using injectable clen in the form of helios. It contains 40mcg clenbuterol & 5.4mg yohimbine per ml. So, I've found a good comfort zone for it is to inject it into my love handles (which is where it's supposed to work best) at around .40ml 10mcg of clen. Beyond that and I really start to get the shakes.

Hope that answers your questions, let me know if you have any others!

 

[RIPDanDuchaine]

Tbh, I think your cycle is going in the right direction. You are combining androgens that have different mechanism of action, to a point that is. You've got test, a DHT, a 19nor and a sarm. All four have somewhat different modalities and it's great you're combining them. You are also on the right path when it comes to the dosages. Seeing as you are planing a cut cycle, you don't need much. But if secretly you maybe want to recomp, then you need more.

However, you don't need 5 or 6 different androgens : ) Test + primo + tren is all you need. This is a perfect stack for cutting and maybe recomping a bit if you'll have kcal's high enoungh to do so. How much are you planing to lose and how long do you want to be in a cut?

250 test is great, don't go beyond this for a cut.
400 primo is perfect.
No idea on the trenavar, but I'd say what ever equates to 150 - 200 tren ace a week.

Tren is the most important androgen, in regards to cutting, that you've got lined up. A close second to it is primo. Var is also tied with primo, but you don't need it if you've got primo and tren. Ostarine and LGD just keep them for a future cycle. Ostarine can be hard on the liver and LGD isn't so innocent either.

How toxic is trenavar?

I appreciate your confidence in me and agree with the cycle. Apparently trenvar is not all that toxic.

 

[RIPDanDuchaine]

I did that steroid graph thing and it came back with some pretty interesting results. I can't save them, but strangely it shows my test starting off good, but dropping about 6 weeks through the cycle and then shooting back up again. The Primo and var remain stable. Not sure how accurate this thing is. The testosterone is the dark green, not black in the graph.

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[shanewilliams]

Ok. Bodyfat percentage is high so you need to really focus on diet and cardio obviously. Need caloric deficit. I’m not a big fan of t-3 or t-4 unless I’m running gh which would be good for you but now you’re really pushing up the budget. I woukd definitely keep it simple

600mg primo per week
250 test e
40-50mg var per day last 4 weeks.
I’d definitely go with the 600mg primo over the 400

 

[shanewilliams]

I actually prefer hydroxycut Over eca and clen. The 600mg primo and 250 test should be good to maintain the muscle when you are in deficit. So as you are losing the fat the body will transform nicely. If you get down to 18% it will be a very drastic change in your look.

 

[RIPDanDuchaine]

Ok. Bodyfat percentage is high so you need to really focus on diet and cardio obviously. Need caloric deficit. I’m not a big fan of t-3 or t-4 unless I’m running gh which would be good for you but now you’re really pushing up the budget. I woukd definitely keep it simple

600mg primo per week
250 test e
40-50mg var per day last 4 weeks.
I’d definitely go with the 600mg primo over the 400

I just bought the 400mg of primo, so I'm going with that. I think that plus all the PHs, etc will be plenty of androgens for a good leaning cycle.

I would also like to run GH too, but this was the max of my budget. Luckily, I got a free bottle of test for paying with BTC.

 

[trumac]

I enjoy Helios myself. I get t3 and armour thyroid from my doc so I don’t mess with the doses, it certainly isn’t bodybuilding doses. Primo at 600/test lowish wherever you like it/trenavar will be a nice cycle. I have used trenavar up to like 120mg a day I think TD and I liked it a lot

 

[trumac]

I just realized you mentioned var too. Primo test var is a classic and would treat you right

 

[Whisky]

Ok. Bodyfat percentage is high so you need to really focus on diet and cardio obviously. Need caloric deficit. I’m not a big fan of t-3 or t-4 unless I’m running gh which would be good for you but now you’re really pushing up the budget. I woukd definitely keep it simple

600mg primo per week
250 test e
40-50mg var per day last 4 weeks.
I’d definitely go with the 600mg primo over the 400

yep simple is best here.

OP posted bf in another thread, hadn’t realised it wasn’t on this one but it’s another reason to keep test at 250 max (increased aromatisation at higher BF levels isn’t ideal).

id stand by my original suggestion not to touch t3 until your the last few weeks away from single figure bf - it’s too non selective in what it burns).

in reality you could achieve 15% without any anabolics at all. If you feel you need them then obviously nutrition is seriously wrong (and if that’s the case the aas won’t help). I appreciate that it’s more fun on gear but your going to need to be on a blast for a long time to get that bf down (assuming you don’t just crash it off), the sensible move is to get down to 20% or below on just trt doses and then introduce stuff (got to suggest that bro).

something like Shane has suggested would be a good bet if your going to run something. Definitely save the clen as well, return not worth the risk at that BF (throw some of the natty fat burners like green tea, cayenne pepper etc) at it if you like.

 

[shanewilliams]

yep simple is best here.

OP posted bf in another thread, hadn’t realised it wasn’t on this one but it’s another reason to keep test at 250 max (increased aromatisation at higher BF levels isn’t ideal).

id stand by my original suggestion not to touch t3 until your the last few weeks away from single figure bf - it’s too non selective in what it burns).

in reality you could achieve 15% without any anabolics at all. If you feel you need them then obviously nutrition is seriously wrong (and if that’s the case the aas won’t help). I appreciate that it’s more fun on gear but your going to need to be on a blast for a long time to get that bf down (assuming you don’t just crash it off), the sensible move is to get down to 20% or below on just trt doses and then introduce stuff (got to suggest that bro).

something like Shane has suggested would be a good bet if your going to run something. Definitely save the clen as well, return not worth the risk at that BF (throw some of the natty fat burners like green tea, cayenne pepper etc) at it if you like.

yep simple is best here.

OP posted bf in another thread, hadn’t realised it wasn’t on this one but it’s another reason to keep test at 250 max (increased aromatisation at higher BF levels isn’t ideal).

id stand by my original suggestion not to touch t3 until your the last few weeks away from single figure bf - it’s too non selective in what it burns).

in reality you could achieve 15% without any anabolics at all. If you feel you need them then obviously nutrition is seriously wrong (and if that’s the case the aas won’t help). I appreciate that it’s more fun on gear but your going to need to be on a blast for a long time to get that bf down (assuming you don’t just crash it off), the sensible move is to get down to 20% or below on just trt doses and then introduce stuff (got to suggest that bro).

something like Shane has suggested would be a good bet if your going to run something. Definitely save the clen as well, return not worth the risk at that BF (throw some of the natty fat burners like green tea, cayenne pepper etc) at it if you like.

100% agree with everything here. I’d throw the var in towards the end depending on progress. No T3 and no clen. At least with just primo and low test water retention should be limited and should have quality muscle as you lean out. I would do cardio in the mornings fasted cause it’s worked for me in the past. Work your way up to 45 mins. Then do some kind of resistance training in the evenings if that’s an option. My advice would be to hold off a month until you get that cardio going for a bit but at the same time I know how I am with gear. Use the anavar at the end.

 

[Jinsun]

Damn, you're 30% bf. Hm, thats a lot. Honestly, you do not need to cycle at this point, especially seeing as you already are on a mild cycle. You could switch the deca out for primo and that's it.

Seriously. Just for keeping the MM while you cut from 30% down to 15% you dont need much. You'll need gear to get from 16 to 10%.

 

[RIPDanDuchaine]

Damn, you're 30% bf. Hm, thats a lot. Honestly, you do not need to cycle at this point, especially seeing as you already are on a mild cycle. You could switch the deca out for primo and that's it.

Seriously. Just for keeping the MM while you cut from 30% down to 15% you dont need much. You'll need gear to get from 16 to 10%.

MM?

 

[trumac]

Muscle mass maybe

 

[shanewilliams]

Muscle mass maybe

Yeah he means muscle mass. That’s exactly why I would use just the primo 400 and test at no more than 250. Would have a better idea if OP posted a pic. Primo is excellent for maintaining muscle in deficit. Nothing else. Maybe green tea etc. natural fat burners. Maybe better go with gh at 4ius per day instead of primo

 

[RIPDanDuchaine]

Yeah he means muscle mass. That’s exactly why I would use just the primo 400 and test at no more than 250. Would have a better idea if OP posted a pic. Primo is excellent for maintaining muscle in deficit. Nothing else. Maybe green tea etc. natural fat burners. Maybe better go with gh at 4ius per day instead of primo

It's already bought and paid for. I'm going to be using 400mg/primo 250mg/test and 25mg var daily. Then, I'm going to stack Ostarine and trenvar on top of that. I decided the drop the LGD after reading in Anabolics 2011 that it's more of a mass builder than a fat loss agent, while ostarine can help with fat loss.

Like I said, I would love to use GH, but it's just not in the cards right now financially. Hopefully in the future though.

 

[BBiceps]

You going to be disappointed in this cycle, I would recommend to just cut hardcore, like no carbs maybe ever type of cut, before you use the Primo. I would (maybe) understand if you had an insane amount of muscle mass under that fat that you wanted to “save” while cutting but otherwise Primo will do next to nothing. Cut first, cycle after.

 

[Jinsun]

You going to be disappointed in this cycle, I would recommend to just cut hardcore, like no carbs maybe ever type of cut, before you use the Primo. I would (maybe) understand if you had an insane amount of muscle mass under that fat that you wanted to “save” while cutting but otherwise Primo will do next to nothing. Cut first, cycle after.

This. At 30% bf it's nonsensical using lots of androgens to cut. You loose weight so easily at that point. And besides, you are already on test and deca. That's 400 mg's of androgens! More then enough lawl.

Keep your stack and start using when you'll be around 16%.

 

[Renew1]

These guys are making a very good point. ↑↑↑

 

[KvanH]

Yep, loose the fat and keep your hair = )

The Test + Deca 400 mg should be plenty for that, as @Jinsun said.

 

[trumac]

I forgot you were on test and deca already. Are you continuing that with the planned cycle or what? It would make sense to cut and cycle later at a lower bf