Donald Trump running for president
- Thread starter LiftWithDonuts
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JoePaul39
Well-known member
To my knowledge Republicans have alleged dead people voted and non state citizens voted as well, but they have not produced an example of either. Also, there was no alleged voter fraud allegations in the last election when it was very close and President Trump won, but now that he lost he is suing every state he can!
I voted for the President both times, but I am very disappointed that he appears to be bowing out like a sore loser. In the end I think Biden will carry Nevada, GA, Arizona, and Pennsylvania so hopefully if the president loses all those as an electoral landslide he will conclude it is an impossible long shot with the law suits and rather bow out gracefully and respect and trust the Democratic process has worked by telling people to unite, rather than filling many with unfounded conspiracy theories. This is the right thing to do.
I voted for the President both times, but I am very disappointed that he appears to be bowing out like a sore loser. In the end I think Biden will carry Nevada, GA, Arizona, and Pennsylvania so hopefully if the president loses all those as an electoral landslide he will conclude it is an impossible long shot with the law suits and rather bow out gracefully and respect and trust the Democratic process has worked by telling people to unite, rather than filling many with unfounded conspiracy theories. This is the right thing to do.
ax1
Legend
BLM! So lets put in the architect of th 1994 crime bill along with pretty much ever other crime bill since 1976 so we can "lock those SOBs up!"
This country never has been so freaking retarded...well about half at least. Well the other half is almost just as retarded just a 1/2 level below.
Inbeforesocialjusticewarriorshowupbecauseiusedthewordretardedtwice
ax1
Legend
LMFAO double LMFAO @social justice warrior Demicann liberals putting in someone who is going to undue all the "violent thugs" he incarcerated!
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From liberal New York Times:
Mr. Biden arrived in the Senate in 1973 having forged close ties with black constituents but also with law enforcement, and bearing the grievances of the largely white electorate in Delaware. He courted one Southern segregationist senator, James O. Eastland of Mississippi, who helped him land spots on the committee and subcommittees dealing with criminal justice and prisons, and became a close friend and legislative partner of another, Strom Thurmond of South Carolina.
While Mr. Biden has said in recent days that he and Mr. Eastland “didn’t agree on much of anything,” it is clear that Invalid Link Removed. As early as 1977, Mr. Biden, with Mr. Eastland’s support, pushed for mandatory minimum sentences that would limit judges’ discretion in sentencing. But perhaps even more consequential was Mr. Biden’s relationship with Mr. Thurmond, his Republican counterpart on the judiciary panel, who became his co-author on a string of bills that effectively rewrote the nation’s criminal justice laws with an eye toward putting more criminals behind bars.
In 1989, with the violent crime rate continuing to rise as it had since the 1970s, Mr. Biden lamented that the Republican president, George H. W. Bush, was not doing enough to put “violent thugs” in prison. In 1993, he warned of “predators on our streets.” And in a 1994 Senate floor speech, he likened himself to another Republican president: “Every time Richard Nixon, when he was running in 1972, would say, ‘Law and order,’ the Democratic match or response was, ‘Law and order with justice’ — whatever that meant. And I would say, ‘Lock the S.O.B.s up.’”
At a time when Democrats tended to espouse the “root cause” theory of crime — the idea that poverty and other social ills bred criminal activity — and Republicans thought punishment was the answer, Mr. Biden wanted to “Invalid Link Removed,” as he told The Philadelphia Inquirer in June 1994. But he often seemed to tilt strongly toward the Republican view.
“It doesn’t matter whether or not they’re the victims of society,” Mr. Biden said in 1993, adding, “I don’t want to ask, ‘What made them do this?’ They must be taken off the street.”
Mr. Biden declined an interview for this article. In a statement, his campaign said that he had “fought to defeat systemic racism and unacceptable racial disparities for his entire career,” and that he “believes that too many people of color are in jail in this country.” The statement went on, “As president, he would fight to put an end to mandatory minimums, private prisons and cash bail, and he would support automatic expungement for marijuana offenses because he believes no one should be in jail for marijuana.”
Invalid Link Removed
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From liberal New York Times:
Mr. Biden arrived in the Senate in 1973 having forged close ties with black constituents but also with law enforcement, and bearing the grievances of the largely white electorate in Delaware. He courted one Southern segregationist senator, James O. Eastland of Mississippi, who helped him land spots on the committee and subcommittees dealing with criminal justice and prisons, and became a close friend and legislative partner of another, Strom Thurmond of South Carolina.
While Mr. Biden has said in recent days that he and Mr. Eastland “didn’t agree on much of anything,” it is clear that Invalid Link Removed. As early as 1977, Mr. Biden, with Mr. Eastland’s support, pushed for mandatory minimum sentences that would limit judges’ discretion in sentencing. But perhaps even more consequential was Mr. Biden’s relationship with Mr. Thurmond, his Republican counterpart on the judiciary panel, who became his co-author on a string of bills that effectively rewrote the nation’s criminal justice laws with an eye toward putting more criminals behind bars.
In 1989, with the violent crime rate continuing to rise as it had since the 1970s, Mr. Biden lamented that the Republican president, George H. W. Bush, was not doing enough to put “violent thugs” in prison. In 1993, he warned of “predators on our streets.” And in a 1994 Senate floor speech, he likened himself to another Republican president: “Every time Richard Nixon, when he was running in 1972, would say, ‘Law and order,’ the Democratic match or response was, ‘Law and order with justice’ — whatever that meant. And I would say, ‘Lock the S.O.B.s up.’”
At a time when Democrats tended to espouse the “root cause” theory of crime — the idea that poverty and other social ills bred criminal activity — and Republicans thought punishment was the answer, Mr. Biden wanted to “Invalid Link Removed,” as he told The Philadelphia Inquirer in June 1994. But he often seemed to tilt strongly toward the Republican view.
“It doesn’t matter whether or not they’re the victims of society,” Mr. Biden said in 1993, adding, “I don’t want to ask, ‘What made them do this?’ They must be taken off the street.”
Mr. Biden declined an interview for this article. In a statement, his campaign said that he had “fought to defeat systemic racism and unacceptable racial disparities for his entire career,” and that he “believes that too many people of color are in jail in this country.” The statement went on, “As president, he would fight to put an end to mandatory minimums, private prisons and cash bail, and he would support automatic expungement for marijuana offenses because he believes no one should be in jail for marijuana.”
Invalid Link Removed
HIT4ME
Well-known member
Somewhat disagree. I think it was strategic because if you want to pack a ballot box it becomes very difficult to show up, give a name, get a ballot, fill it out and then repeat multiple times - it requires a larger number of people going to the polls multiple times and increases the chances of being caught dramatically.
If you can get the ballots mailed out, have people fill them out and mail them back - it becomes much easier to get ballots from dead people or people who are no longer in the county, etc. and scam the system with impunity. If you don't have to show your face every time you fill out a ballot, you have a much lower chance of getting caught. And people do cast fraudulent votes and they are prosecuted for it - although even at a poll it is difficult to catch.
For instance, my grandmother died a year ago. We got a notice for her to get a ballot. We could have easily requested one and sent it in and maybe it gets caught, maybe it doesn't.
On the other hand I know someone who lost their license couple years ago (from injury) and when they showed up to vote they were no longer registered to vote; they were just handed a ballot anyway.
To think this system is tightly regulated is unrealistic - and to be honest I see the complexities of it where you don't want to disenfranchise a true citizen with a legal right to vote. But we live with a lot more fraud than people want to see.
Mail in ballots and the belief that all the haters reside in one liberal, highly populated town helps create plausible deniability. If you believe that premise about a district, then it makes it real easy for the liberals to target and exploit. And that's how you get 90% voter turnouts in only the most highly populated area of an entire state.
This is a tremendous article. I do dig. It ties a lot of observations together. Nice find.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
I think that it's only 1/4 of the country that is retarded. They just voted, on average, 2 times each.
I want to make a Biden sticker that says, "Joe Biden. I voted....twice."
I love when Biden uses the term "Dog whistle" - wonder how he knows that term? Oh, yeah, right, because he used to use a dog whistle to sell his legislation. Super Criminal - which was well known to be code for a 15 year old black boy with hate in his heart and a gun in his hand.
ax1
Legend
I can see how the issues you bought up can have a much greater impact that sitting there is feeding the official Dump shredder under the table.
thebigt
Legend
i think i was wrong...being this close to stacking scotus, making puerto rico and washington dc states, plus giving the right to vote to 20 million illegals, there is NO way democrats are going to let republicans retain majority in senate.
the US is going to become a one party country with democrats having total control over the populace...GOD help the less than united states.
the US is going to become a one party country with democrats having total control over the populace...GOD help the less than united states.
Jiigzz
Legend
Lawsuit: Woman shocked jelly beans contain sugar
Woody
Well-known member
Your smoking gun proof is a GQ article with no actual discussion of the changes and their impact, rather just a journalist saying it was a bad bill because Elizabeth Warren thinks there’s a better way. Very persuasive.
If you think I voted for Biden, you’re only cherry picking which posts of mine you read.
Jiigzz
Legend
If he is to win this election, and goes up for reelection in 4 years those bumper stickers will just make you seem like an avid Biden fan.
Woody
Well-known member
So I know some states - like Wisconsin - allow you to register to vote on Election Day. Is your state the same?
I agree that it is a complex issue. Doing away with mail in ballots isn’t the answer if there is no viable alternative. I am uneducated on block chain technology that @ax1 is for, so I don’t know if that’s a viable solution. Almost everyone has a phone, though. The issue is complicated by the fact the states are to set their rules for elections and it seems like all the states have different rules and procedures - from registration to counting.
JoePaul39
Well-known member
Good article. Funny how mail in voting has been around for many elections, but alll the sudden it is supposedly rid with a higher rate of fraud than non mail in voting. What study is this theory based on? None, but rather President Trump’s opinion.
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Jiigzz
Legend
I think you'd still need to vote in person to use blockchain technology. As your personal devices are open to security exploits (consider that Huawai is owned by the Chinese, for example) there is a distinct possibility that these devices could be exploited by manufacturers to manipulate votes.
Software is open to exploits. And even the technology itself can be disrupted.
Ethereum was attacked by an actor and over half of the networking power was gained control over, which allowed the attacker to begin rewriting the transaction history. For blockchain technology to work safely, it requires over half of the networking power to be 'honest'.
Blockchains are getting targeting more frequently now, and they aren't as impervious to attack as what they are made to seem.
It would take some time before a large scale viable blockchain became the solution to voting.
Invalid Link Removed
ax1
Legend
Blockchain would issue a key to every voter and make the election completely hack proof done right of course.
Also, as a bonus, there will be complete transparency every voter would have access to viewing every transaction made on the chain. You would only see the voting address, not the actual key and you can set it up so you can validate addresses to every single election district and audited with the election boards. Only the voter with the encrypted key can vote, nobody else can vote for you its impossible unless your PC was hacked and your specific key stolen and used, then we can have a process of destroying the key and issuing a new one. You can also issue key's with a USB stick and use fingerprint identity or other biometrics to open it.
Thats just a brief summary. Its extremely doable, not done over night.
Blockchain is not limited to Bitcoin, there are various technologies already out there that have set up multiple "smart contracts" its really sophisticated tech that I dont completely understand it all myself lol.
You can seriously have 100% of the votes counted almost instantly and made publicly.
ax1
Legend
Geez the first thing they start talking about was Etherum Classic which was abandoned by Etherum and hardcore Etherum users who refused to let it go kept it alive and popular.
Find me Bitcoin truly being hacked.... Look for a real hack, I dont want to hear about Mt. Gox because that wasnt a real Bitcoin hack, the chain has never truly been touched.
There is actually far more advancements and mutli-verification authorizations into a smart-contract you can set up to make it unbelievable secure.
On top of it all you can frequently back up the system and if a hack was detected you simply freeze the system, secure it until the hack is identified and patched and you can have everybody vote all over again in a few seconds when the time is ready.
ax1
Legend
I do wanna say I in no way have advanced knowledge of Crypto, but compared to what we have now its pure fresh golden and there are various fast solutions should something go wrong no doubt. And a hack here doesnt equate to stolen bitcoin you can never retrieve again. Its just votes and a hack just equats to a instant re-vote at another time.
Woody
Well-known member
So who would issue the key and how do you get your key? If the government mails them to every registered voter, wouldn’t we face the same issue as dead people getting a key? And keys being subject to hijacking in the mail?
And what happens if your PC is hacked? Can the hack get the key info? Or if your PC dies from a virus? Do you need a new key?
Edit - again, pretty uneducated on blockchain tech
ax1
Legend
There are multiple solutions for this. Ill mention a couple. When you register you can have your encrypted finger print set to the USB stick. If your dead I guess you can cut grandmas finger off and put it in the freezer. I dunno if Id be personally up for that but there are some sick folks out there but at least you would have to cut it off fairly fresh and freeze it quick.
But yeah easily solved. And then you would need 2A two step authentication when you vote anyways with multiple layers of security your talking about a hostage situation to have someone's votes stolen.
BTW voting booths will be set to be compatible with these USB sticks for poor people who dont have good access to tech or people who just dont know how to use computers.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
Touche.
I actually am not 100% sure if you are allowed to register in MA right up until election day - but either way, he was not asked to register. He was just handed a ballot despite not being registered. Maybe they have a simple way or re-registering previously registered voters when they show up? But either way it seems like it would be an opening for fraudulent activity. In this case, it was a simple mistake of the person not realizing they became unregistered when they lost their license for medical reasons....so it wasn't really a complicated thing, but it sure makes you wonder how hard it is to walk in and say you are someone you are not. My brother lives in another state now and I am 100% sure I could have walked in and given his old address and they would have said, "You're not registered" and handed me a ballot anyway. Now, the risk of getting caught is such that I won't do that, but given the fact we've established how many of us are lunatics and willing to commit crimes openly, someone is likely doing this.
I mean, I would love to have a secure way to just vote online even - why not? Make an account and I can verify, etc. and see my vote at any time and change it at any time, or report fraud if someone hacks my account. But, even that has issues. Blockchain has issues. Nothing is perfect yet...but I do see a lot of potential fraud even at the polls, and even more so with mail-in ballots. It is just obvious that there COULD be exploits, and if there are exploits, then someone will take advantage.
Mail-in voting has been around for a long time, and probably has always had fraudulent activity associated with it. But it's never been used on the scale it is being used in this election. Dane County in WI had 50-60% of the votes 2 weeks before this election that it had achieved in 2016 just from the mail-in voting that hadn't all come in yet. If there are 200 cases of fraud in 100,000 votes, it's one thing to spot the patterns and catch it. If you have 20,000 cases of faud in 1,000,000 votes - it becomes much harder to deal with.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
These are all good questions - and if you can see these issues with such sophisticated security in place - don't you think less sophisticated, less secure transactions would have even more issues?
ax1
Legend
Ron Paul is still trying to have his Military ballots counted from 2008.
Jiigzz
Legend
What do you mean "not a real hack?". Most "hacks" are simply security vulnerability exploits. I.e. EternalBlue was a security exploit that Microsoft tried to patch out, however a large number of vulnerable machines were still identified, which allowed WannaCy to cause such a nuisance.
If you can exploit something, I.e. take control of over 51% of networking power and manage to duplicate transactions and pocket the duplicate, then what difference does it make whether or not it "actually touched the chain". The outcome was that for every dollar a duplicate was able to be farmed for the exploiters.
Imagine if someone managed to get over 51% of the networking power for an election. Isnt that EXACTLY what people are accusing Democrats of doing right now? Lol
FWIW I think it's a great idea. But I just know software and anything reliant on the internet to transfer data will have vulnerabilities. Once state actors get involved, they will find those vulnerabilities.
ax1
Legend
I wouldnt say "suddenly" this has been an issue up for discussion for many years including the voting machines.
I remember 15-20 years ago there was an HBO special where they demonstrated to this hardcore "our voting system has top integrity" woman and she cried when they hacked a voting machine in front of her with a laptop in just a few minutes. She cried her azz off.
ax1
Legend
People will mention Mt. Gox as a bitcoin hack but that was an exchange for example.
If a voting system was hacked we arent even talking about stolen coin. You would have independent backup servers fix, secure and restore the backup and you can re-vote with extremely little resources needed for a revote in case of a emergency re-vote.
ax1
Legend
That comes from idiots, not that actual observers. Show me proof Republicrats wanted to send Al-queda to observe the votes. If that is the case its pretty easy to find and arrest them.
ax1
Legend
This is a topic I usually try to avoid when a total newb asks me, its like when someone asks you if God exists, LOL
Jiigzz
Legend
I like the idea, especially for our own elections. I just think any software or any data that is transferred over the internet is open to exploits. State actors have a lot of resources, and they will find those exploits.
Especially when it involves elections.
That's why a lot of critical nuclear technology is kept well away from ANY system connected to the internet.
JoePaul39
Well-known member
The key is you used “IF there are 200 cases of fraud in 100,000 votes” for mail in voting is it is all speculative. In order to have a legit lawsuit the President will need evidence and also enough of it that it is material enough for a court to hear the case on the belief that it is to such a scale it could overturn results. He has not presented this. The truth is there is NO study or proof that shows mail in voting is more susceptible to fraud at a higher rate than in person voting, it is based on opinion and speculation. The President claims if all the valid votes are counted he wins, how could he possibly know this not having seen any of the ballots lol? He cant, yet many of his followers blindly believe what he claims as fact, thus his unsupported statement divides the county.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
I'm on board with denouncing violence against polling stations. That isn't peaceful protesting or observing. I expected others to say the same about BLM, which they didn't, but I won't condone it on "my side" if it happens either.
thebigt
Legend
dude we have been posting cases of voter fraud for the last week.
thebigt
Legend
because we are better than them!!!
ax1
Legend
The bloody awful logic here is, even if true which is may, instead of investing on helping these people/communities with getting a basic ID they say lets NEVER have Id requirements for voting for all.
Its just so dumb imo. I dont buy the authenticity of the claim by politicians, there is something else to gain from that.
Jiigzz
Legend
Actual observers are already inside:
"Hundreds of challengers from both parties were inside the central counting board all afternoon and all evening; dozens of reporters were in the room too,"
Trump was upset that his supporters weren't able to see inside the building. I.e. like those who threatened to blow up and shoot polling places.
ax1
Legend
No, no need for smart phone, PC or internet. Implementing simple voting places where you bring your USB stick with you. Perhaps another solution to 2 step authentication for poor people is to have a chip on their ID's as an alternative to getting a text or using 2A-app on a phone people dont have. So you can do chip and retinal scan.
ax1
Legend
Its going to be completely transparent for anybody to look at in real time to everybody in the country coast to coast. You cant really top that compared to what we have now.
Also, your talking to someone here who isnt well educated that has the most basic understanding of this tech, but Im trying to move the needle forward. Your, Woody's, and anyone else's questions that are coming up are completely legitimate and smart but with my little understanding there are solutions to all of these.
The key here is bringing full transparency to the public while allowed the voter to be fully discreet with their votes.
ax1
Legend
Too little too late. This election is a complete massive blowtard by now and nothing can be done to change that in my mind.
But, the good news is I really dont support either Candidate, I thought Dump was a slightly lesser of the two pathetic evils but Im already looking to regroup the NY Libertarian party for 2024 and see if we can win some smaller elections and put Gold on the map so people can see that and ask, what is that?
thebigt
Legend
perdue is just under 50%, if he doesn't get there then it goes to a runoff.
R-loeffler is at 25.97% D-warnock is at 32.87%...but R-collins got 20% and no one else was even close so that 20% from collins should put loeffler over the top in the runoff.
but i have no faith in fairness anymore and fully expect to see either perdue and loeffler or both lose.
R-loeffler is at 25.97% D-warnock is at 32.87%...but R-collins got 20% and no one else was even close so that 20% from collins should put loeffler over the top in the runoff.
but i have no faith in fairness anymore and fully expect to see either perdue and loeffler or both lose.