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Remember Me? The Swanson52 Log of PL Program Hopping.

Hyde said:
I would hit rear Delts on both upper body days as suggested. It’s a super important muscle, and it’s remarkably easy to get those 2x12-15 rear Db flyes in. Very low investment but high return.

Dips after Widegrip Bench sounds tough on parts, unless you have short arms or just really tolerate dips and lots of pec work very well. Or if your elbows really hate Skullcrushers or JM Presses. But I feel stronger tris build any bencher, while stronger pecs only really help wider benchers.

The Widegrip bench he suggests is 2 fingers wider than whatever your preferred comp width is. They are not paused, but I’d be careful getting too ballistic with them.

Your MSM volume in the first 2 mesos sounds overly ambitious. Remember this is a primary lift variant. Do you really think after doing ~15 heavy comp squat reps you will need to do 40 more SSB squats to get better? I would challenge you not to get better on 25-30. I am almost certain it will be plenty of stimulus and easier on joints in the long run. Save the extra volume for things like legpress or lunges that won’t eat your low back recovery up if you feel you need more work. Just my feedback having used the program 3 times now all the way through.
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I can add rear delt stuff, good suggestion.

I have VERY short arms, and I struggle with chest strength. At my age my elbows hate almost everything. Lol. I have had good luck in the past with carryover from dips to pressing strength which is why I chose them.

I picked wide grip bench because I’m not sure what else to use. My gym only has 100 pound dumbbells, and I don’t have a good rack for anything like floor presses. I’ll accept suggestions.

I was picking rep ranges for the MSM based on the suggestions in the second book. I’m not married to 40 reps; currently I’m doing 28 total reps of SSB after my squats. I can def stick around that number.

Thanks for the feedback!
 
Hyde said:
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Great 2 hour podcast interview with Swede, also available in audio only on Apple and the like.

Something very poignant that struck me was the part Swede talks about people complaining to him that the general program doesn’t call for enough work for them to get better, like they need to comp bench 3x in 7 days or the like. And his response to them initially is, “How do you know?” Have you ever even spent the time trying less to see if it allows you to accomplish more? Most of them are young IPF kids who have seen results grinding their bodies into the dirt for a couple years but still haven’t benched 315 even.
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I’m 100% a “less is more” guy. I’ll watch tonight at work.
 
Swanson52 said:
I can add rear delt stuff, good suggestion.

I have VERY short arms, and I struggle with chest strength. At my age my elbows hate almost everything. Lol. I have had good luck in the past with carryover from dips to pressing strength which is why I chose them.

I picked wide grip bench because I’m not sure what else to use. My gym only has 100 pound dumbbells, and I don’t have a good rack for anything like floor presses. I’ll accept suggestions.

I was picking rep ranges for the MSM based on the suggestions in the second book. I’m not married to 40 reps; currently I’m doing 28 total reps of SSB after my squats. I can def stick around that number.

Thanks for the feedback!
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I have very long monkey arms so pec issues get to be very real for me - since you’re the opposite of me & have good past experience that’s a great reason to help them.

The Widegrip bench protocol absolutely will build pecs and starting power. I had to drop it towards the end because I tweaked my pec being too greedy, but man it was responding well. Conversely I didn’t get crap from the Incline NG DB press. I raised my Db weights by 20lbs an arm and my bench only continued to fall. I just don’t think it transferred at all to my comp bench.
 
Hyde said:
I have very long monkey arms so pec issues get to be very real for me - since you’re the opposite of me & have good past experience that’s a great reason to help them.

The Widegrip bench protocol absolutely will build pecs and starting power. I had to drop it towards the end because I tweaked my pec being too greedy, but man it was responding well. Conversely I didn’t get crap from the Incline NG DB press. I raised my Db weights by 20lbs an arm and my bench only continued to fall. I just don’t think it transferred at all to my comp bench.
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I agree about incline DB presses. I just get good at incline DB pressing. I’ve never tried wide grip bench, so I’m excited to see what happens.

Now I just have to stay the course for 4 weeks instead of just maxing our and starting. LOOOOLLLL.
 
Swanson52 said:
I agree about incline DB presses. I just get good at incline DB pressing. I’ve never tried wide grip bench, so I’m excited to see what happens.

Now I just have to stay the course for 4 weeks instead of just maxing our and starting. LOOOOLLLL.
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Brick by brick.
 
SkRaw85 said:
Brick by brick.
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Fo sho. I’m just excited to start. I haven’t been all about a program like this since I stumbled onto 5/3/1 in like 2011.

I’ve got my wife on board too. She’s on week 3 of a little 12 week program like I’m running, then she’ll start 5th set as well.
 
281.8 today. I only got about 4 hours of sleep after a pain in the ass 16 hour shift, so I took the day off. Squats tomorrow. I’m hoping to see some 27x on the scale this week...that’ll be a little mental victory.

I was curious about 5th Set in caloric deficit, and the corresponding training in hypertrophic rep ranges, so I asked Skip about it. I think his response was excellent.

“You absolutely can increase muscle tissue while losing body fat as long as the caloric balance suits this and right now, yours does. Keep in mind that "maintenance" calories will maintain your entire body weight -- including body fat -- so the more more body fat you have, the more room that you have to support muscle growth while also supporting fat loss. The only time this is next to impossible is when your body fat levels are very low because then there is a very small window between supporting muscle gain and fat loss at the same time.”

Thought the board might like that.
 
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Been reading Skip’s articles for years on EFS. Always a good read and often funny too! Heard a few podcasts with him as well (maybe with Scott McNally?) and it’s obvious in his and his clients results he knows his stuff.
 
Hyde said:
Been reading Skip’s articles for years on EFS. Always a good read and often funny too! Heard a few podcasts with him as well (maybe with Scott McNally?) and it’s obvious in his and his clients results he knows his stuff.
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Skip is a good dude. Not just as a coach, but he’s just a good guy.
 
Shitty ass squats. Everything felt like it was a thousand pounds.

SQUAT
145x5
235x5
285x5
325x5
345x5
360x5

SSB
275x5x5

Leg curls. Belt squats and split squats are dropped this week.

281.6.
 
281.4.

BENCH
135x5
185x5
225x5
275x5
315x5x2

Felt strong today

INCLINE DB PRESS
85x8x4

Bench kinda took it out of me for these

CGBP
235x7x4

Good day.
 
SkRaw85 said:
Solid bench session!
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Thanks man, I’m really happy with it.

I was telling Sean, this is week 10, I’ve lost 8 pounds over that period. When I started my bench max was 340, and 315x5 extrapolates to a 360 bench using Swede’s formula. I might’ve been able to get 7 AMRAP with a spotter, but that’s not what happens so I’m not taking credit for it.

Hard to bitch about that.
 
After some pondering tonight, and seeing my progress on bench, I’m wondering about a couple things. The accessories I’ve hammered have been incline DB and CGBP. I’m pleased with the bench progress, even though I **** on incline dB presses earlier. I think with 5th set, I’m going to keep the dB press on my 2nd bench day for the high rep protocol, and use CGBP as an accessory on that same day instead of dips.

Feel free to blast me if necessary.
 
Whenever my CG has progressed, my comp press has followed. Take that n=1 anecdote however you please, lol. I guess im just saying, in my experience, your plan to keep cg involved seems like a good one. Why not use it as your MSM on your main bench day?

Edit: I should clarify, i saw results on my cgbp first, then comp grip came a few weeks later. My above statement could be interpreted as a “chicken or the egg” situation.
 
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Well, one thing I know is I can count on things changing. I’m not going to re-up with Skip in August. I had to buy a transfer case for my wife’s BMW, I have to buy 3 vehicles for myself and my daughters, and I have to pay for senior pictures in August. Just not a good time to drop several hundred bucks.

That said, I’m still with Skip through 8/15, so my goal is 275. I’m 281.4 this morning. What does that mean for training/competing? I’m going to run my gym owner’s peaking program and I’ll compete at 275 in late November. Sean is going to help me reverse diet into maintenance calories and I should stay around that 275 mark.

I’ll hop on 5th set in December and run it for a macrocycle, and look at competing again in June 2021 or so. I’m comfortable with my weight, I just wanted to be VERY lean. I’m just thicc at 275, which I’m ok with. I’ll have lost 50 pounds.
 
DEADS
135x5
225x3
275x3
315x3
365x3
405x3

Rev hyper, GHR, done.

This week drops out almost all accessories.

287.4 post skipload.
 
Strong day. 281.8.

SQUATS
135x5
185x5
225x5
275x3
315x3
365x1
390x3

Little backstory; to start the year, I had hired a coach to bring me back into the game. He basically shamed me into squatting low bar even though I’ve always been mid-high bar, and strong too. I’ve been trying like hell to make low bar work, and I always just felt like ****. Today I said **** it, and put the bar back where I’m confident, and the result was a great session. Do what works for you.

SSB
285x7x4

Leg curls, done.

And I know everybody likes vids. Top set. Yes I know I pitch forward a bit. I need to widen my stance a hair.


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Geez those looked easy! The way you squat could indeed probably benefit from any amount lower you can get the bar, BUT you could also just work on trying to stay a bit more upright and not sitting back quite as much as down through the knees.

The right bar position is what lets you lift the best. Hi bar/ low bar ideology is often something I see espoused by folks without a lot of lifting experience, or at least much to show for it.
 
Hyde said:
Geez those looked easy! The way you squat could indeed probably benefit from any amount lower you can get the bar, BUT you could also just work on trying to stay a bit more upright and not sitting back quite as much as down through the knees.

The right bar position is what lets you lift the best. Hi bar/ low bar ideology is often something I see espoused by folks without a lot of lifting experience, or at least much to show for it.
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Ya man I can squat low bar, but it feels like absolute ****. I bailed on 375 last week because 360 felt like 600. Mid/high just feels right.

I think I got forward a bit because my stance was a tad narrow. I’ll see how things feel next week with a wider stance.

If I can hit 500 by the end of the year, I’ll be thrilled. Road to 900! LOL.
 
jswain34 said:
Whenever my CG has progressed, my comp press has followed. Take that n=1 anecdote however you please, lol. I guess im just saying, in my experience, your plan to keep cg involved seems like a good one. Why not use it as your MSM on your main bench day?

Edit: I should clarify, i saw results on my cgbp first, then comp grip came a few weeks later. My above statement could be interpreted as a “chicken or the egg” situation.
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So Swede did an AMA on Instagram and I asked him about CGBP as a MSM. He said only to boards, or as a high rep accessory in the other day.
 
Swanson52 said:
So Swede did an AMA on Instagram and I asked him about CGBP as a MSM. He said only to boards, or as a high rep accessory in the other day.
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Huh...thats interesting. I suppose it could get a little tough on your AC joints if you had an issue with them. CG to a 2 board would be my next go to then since you should get much more carry over to your comp press with that than a db bench variant, but im also a tad bias towards keeping db bench variations in the 6-20 rep range vs <6 as i hate trying to hoist heavy aśš dbs up. I always feel like its a disaster (torn pec or RC my biggest concerns) waiting to happen.
 
Guess my phone is back on it’s double post bs, sorry for the annoyance.
 
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Swanson52 said:
So Swede did an AMA on Instagram and I asked him about CGBP as a MSM. He said only to boards, or as a high rep accessory in the other day.
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This makes sense. Maybe it’s my long arms but the last few inches of CGBP definitely are what cause any and all shoulder/pec issues with it. Adding a board or two for heavy work as an MSM will still transfer well and reduce strain. And honestly the normal board work transferred really well this training cycle for me, so CG to boards is still more ROM than that.

But to me it makes most sense on the light high rep day full range as much as the Widegrip does. Just depends on how wide your comp bench is.
 
Well some things changed at work for me, and for my wife which is going to change my plan yet again. The meet I was planning on doing is during our plant turnaround, so nobody can take time off. Meet is off the table. I had to cover 10 extra shifts for dudes out with Covid ****, and my wife got a significant pay bump with a new job, so I’m riding with Skip til November. I’m going to do 5th Set for a macrocycle as well, with fresh training maxes coming this week. Stay tuned.
 
Hyde said:
Nice! This will set you up better longterm.
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I agree 100%. I’m actually kinda glad it worked out this way. I didn’t want to bail out on diet, and I’m dying to run 5th set. I’ll compete next year.
 
Hyde said:
Nice! This will set you up better longterm.
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I agree 100%. I’m actually kinda glad it worked out this way. I didn’t want to bail out on diet, and I’m dying to run 5th set. I’ll compete next year.
 
Swanson52 said:
Well some things changed at work for me, and for my wife which is going to change my plan yet again. The meet I was planning on doing is during our plant turnaround, so nobody can take time off. Meet is off the table. I had to cover 10 extra shifts for dudes out with Covid ****, and my wife got a significant pay bump with a new job, so I’m riding with Skip til November. I’m going to do 5th Set for a macrocycle as well, with fresh training maxes coming this week. Stay tuned.
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You workin on a mobile crusher or asphalt plant?
 
SkRaw85 said:
Ahhhh nice, cash money! Had my fun in the oil patch before, in beautiful North Dakota! What a sight, You can’t make me go back lol.
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I’ve been oilfield since 2007, Colorado and Wyoming. I never was desperate enough to work in ND. LOL.
 
SkRaw85 said:
I was living in MT at the time (really missing that state now) but yeah, ND is everything it’s cracked up to be
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I’ve got a recruiter bugging me about a pipeline job in Missoula, but I don’t think the money will compel me. MT would be awesome though.
 
New low weight of 278.4 this morning

BENCH
135x5
185x5
225x3
275x3
315x1
330x3
My bad shoulder popped on the third rep of 330. I’m supposed to test 1rm next week, but I think I’m going to pass on that and just roll with the max in between 330x3 and 315x5, which is about 355. I’ll calculate my 5th Set program off that. I’m not going to prove anything by trying to push.

My wife had her whole session, so I just did a bunch of curls, band pressdowns and be pull ups.
 
SkRaw85 said:
Moving along nicely.
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Ya man I’m happy with the week. I struggled looking at the scale getting my trt in check then working nights. It’s been solid this week, hoping to drop 1 more time before I skipload.
 
SkRaw85 said:
Moving along nicely.
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Ya man I’m happy with the week. I struggled looking at the scale getting my trt in check then working nights. It’s been solid this week, hoping to drop 1 more time before I skipload.
 
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Pics are 6 weeks, 10 pounds apart.
 
If making TRT adjustments and weight is going up, you gotta figure it’s lean mass or estrogenic waterweight - it’s either positive or transient, and the TRT will help you longterm achieving your goals & wellbeing.

Also are we gonna talk about the Star Wars collection or no?
 
Hyde said:
If making TRT adjustments and weight is going up, you gotta figure it’s lean mass or estrogenic waterweight - it’s either positive or transient, and the TRT will help you longterm achieving your goals & wellbeing.

Also are we gonna talk about the Star Wars collection or no?
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For sure. I’ve been on trt since 2012. My levels were falling off a cliff so we were adjusting dosing and going to a 2x/week injections. I think I’ve finally gotten it evened out.

I’m a huge, gigantic Star Wars nerd. I have bobbleheads, goblets, stuffed limited edition **** and my wife bought the posters. She has some baby Yoda stuff too. I own it. I’m 44 and love Star Wars.
 
Star Wars is legit! Burned the tape outta the VHS’s as a kid growing up. Episodes 1/2/3 I found very hard to appreciate and sacrilegious. I guess I was expecting more, oh well. The Mandalorian brought back some redemption though for sure!
 
SkRaw85 said:
Star Wars is legit! Burned the tape outta the VHS’s as a kid growing up. Episodes 1/2/3 I found very hard to appreciate and sacrilegious. I guess I was expecting more, oh well. The Mandalorian brought back some redemption though for sure!
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I’m such a nerd I’m getting a Star Wars tattoo sleeve.
 
SkRaw85 said:
Star Wars is legit! Burned the tape outta the VHS’s as a kid growing up. Episodes 1/2/3 I found very hard to appreciate and sacrilegious. I guess I was expecting more, oh well. The Mandalorian brought back some redemption though for sure!
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I’m such a nerd I’m getting a Star Wars tattoo sleeve.
 
So I had my wife vid my top set of dead’s today, and my form is total ****. I’m not pulling my shoulders back or pushing my hips through. So, looks like 5th Set is going to be the speed/technique protocol.

Re:my shoulder-went to orthopedic doc today and he thinks I either have a SLAP tear or partial rotator cuff tear. MRI and follow up Wednesday.

DEADS
135x5x2
225x3x2
315x3
365x3
405x1
435x3

GHR, Rev Hyper, done.
 
Sorry to hear about your shoulder; that’s some crap news but we’ll see what the MRI shows - hoping that’s not the case.
 
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