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Anyone worried if Corona virus keeps spreading the gyms will shut down?

Quest said:
I believe that you rely on what you read rather than our tenured officials.

What do you know about being a cop other than what you choose to read?
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“Our tenured officials?” I literally quoted a NYPD commissioner about no knock raids. And data is data. I NEVER said all/most cops are bad, only that training, regulations, and policy can be improved to make them better at their jobs, and helps ensure the minority of officers that are bad don’t get away with being bad. Frankly, I don’t see how anyone can disagree with that. Is it not bad that 1 in 10 no knock raids are on the wrong home? Do I need to talk to a cop to say that’s bad and can be improved? Should police be allowed to have sex with people in custody? Do I need to to talk to a cop to say that’s bad and can be improved with better policy?

I honestly don’t know what argument you are attempting to make. That I should ask a cop if he thinks 10% of no knock raids begin on the wrong address is bad? Or if he thinks it’s ok to have sex with someone in custody? Because even if he says they’re both OK, that makes him an idiot.

What I WOULD like to know is what officers think we can do to solve the problem. All I did is IDENTIFY the problem. I don’t claim to have the solution that will fix it. I have SUGGESTIONS and IDEAS, but if I gave you the impression I have all the answers, I apologize, as I don’t believe that, and that was not my intention.

Anything beyond that, I don’t know what to tell you. I stand by my analysis of data that tells me we have problems that need addressing, and can be improved. I’d love to discuss how to go about making those improvements, but I have no interest in arguing with someone who claims the problems are unavoidable and that we shouldn’t try to at least reduce them, if we can’t outright abolish them.
 
The only thing you discovered is what you choose to read.

You are as ignorant on the topic as any one of us that is not a cop
 
Quest said:
What vetted police officer or official is speaking of reforming training?

Let's see how fast he can find some drivel on goofle
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Are you drunk now? You made such progress earlier man. We were all on good terms and realized we all have room to improve. Now you're back do dismissing research entirely and insulting me for doing reseach.
 
@muscleupcrohn has a good point...maybe we should be asking police officers themselves what they think could be done to improve policing.

not the brass but the cops on the street
 
Quest said:
The only thing you discovered is what you choose to read.

You are as ignorant on the topic as any one of us that is not a cop
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That is objectively untrue. I've done enough research to know there ARE PROBLEMS. Are you denying that there are problems? I have to be a cop to say that cops conducting raids on the wrong homes and having sex with people in custody is wrong and shouldn't happen? And policies should be in place to help ensure they don't?

Do I have to be a Catholic Priest to say that they shouldn't molest little boys and that the Church shouldn't cover it up?

Stop with that nonsense...
 
Quest said:
No not drunk, just admiring all of the wisdom you have acquired via Google
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Why do you deride Google? If I went to my local library and poured over books like you see in movie montages, would you be mocking me then?

Answer my damn questions. Do you or do you not think there are problems among police that should be addressed and can be improved?

Should we have up to 10% of no-knock raids on the wrong homes?

Should officers be allowed to have sex with people in custody?

Answer my damn questions, or stop talking about me and insulting me...
 
Quest said:
I trust his training and experience over what you choose to read on goofle
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And his training and experience disagree with my saying that there are problems that can be addressed?

Is he really saying that there are ZERO problems with police? That there's ZERO room for improvement?

That officers SHOULD be allowed to have sex with people in custody?

That up to 10% of no knock raids on the wrong homes is acceptable and can't be improved?
 
thebigt said:
@muscleupcrohn has a good point...maybe we should be asking police officers themselves what they think could be done to improve policing.

not the brass but the cops on the street
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Exactly. I'm not suggesting we ask them IF there is a problem. We KNOW there is a problem(s), and only once we admit this can we begin to try to solve them, and of course we need input from the officers to come up with the solutions, and to implement them. But we don't need to ask them IF there is a problem. YOU and I BOTH AGREE there are some problems. That much is for sure. It's just how to implement practical and sustainable practices and policies that we don't know and may not agree on. And THAT is where we ask officers for input. We don't ask them IF there is a problem. We KNOW there is.
 
I deride Google because I understand that you cant believe everything you read on the net as fact.

I believe everything can be improved. But j sure as hell am not going to try and reform the police with what I can find on Google

Your last questions well cheers my friend..
 
Quest said:
What vetted police officer or official is speaking of reforming training?

Let's see how fast he can find some drivel on goofle
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How about Invalid Link Removed, law professor at the University of South Carolina. Former police officer who served in Tallahassee, Florida. He has police experience and extensive directly applicable formal education:

Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Exactly. I'm not suggesting we ask them IF there is a problem. We KNOW there is a problem(s), and only once we admit this can we begin to try to solve them, and of course we need input from the officers to come up with the solutions, and to implement them. But we don't need to ask them IF there is a problem. YOU and I BOTH AGREE there are some problems. That much is for sure. It's just how to implement practical and sustainable practices and policies that we don't know and may not agree on. And THAT is where we ask officers for input. We don't ask them IF there is a problem. We KNOW there is.
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i worked factory jobs most of my life, every good foreman i had always asked me what he could do to help me do my job better.

we must remember that civilians are in charge of police, it would be nice if they worked WITH the police to make things better.
 
Quest said:
I deride Google because I understand that you cant believe everything you read on the net as fact.

I believe everything can be improved. But j sure as hell am not going to try and reform the police with what I can find on Google

Your last questions well cheers my friend..
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I have REPEATEDLY said I don't have all the answers for how to fix the problems, only that they ARE problems and they CAN and SHOULD be addressed and improved.

If you can't grasp that by now, I'm sorry for you man.

All I'm saying is that there ARE problems, and SOMETHING needs to be done about it. Of course we need to involve officers in this process of finding a solution, but we don't need to ask them if the problems exist. We know they exist. Do we ask Catholic Priests if there's problems in the Church? No. We know there are. We can ask them for how they think we can implement solutions, but we already know there are problems.
 
Quest said:
So, who is going to win the world series?
Based upon stats, experts you find on goofle?
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Dude STFU already. Adults are trying to have a real conversation, and you're in here with insults and fallacious logic.

I've said, probably half a dozen times now, that I don't have all the answers, only that I KNOW there are problems that need addressing. How you could even debate that is beyond me.

I hope you're just a troll and not this ignorant. Either way, I guess I'm the biggest fool for repeatedly engaging with you here when you are so blind to reason.
 
thebigt said:
i worked factory jobs most of my life, every good foreman i had always asked me what he could do to help me do my job better.

we must remember that civilians are in charge of police, it would be nice if they worked WITH the police to make things better.
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I agree with you completely there. But am I taking Crazy Pills? Because I feel like I am dealing with Quest. I've repeatedly said I don't have all the answers, only that I know there are problems, and he keeps saying "you just 'goofle' things" and mocking me for doing research. Surely we all agree there are problems that need addressing. How is my "goofling" that to get data to confirm that there are problems somehow bad? I don't get it man. Please explain it to me. Am I missing something?
 
Quest said:
You have been saying a hell of a lot more than that. Go read what you regurgitated from Google
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You mean that up to 1 in 10 no knock raids is on the wrong home? That's a fact from an NYPD comissioner.

That in 30+ states as recently as 2018, if not later, it wasn't illegal for an officer to have sex with someone in custody? That's a fact.

That some states require more hours to cut hair than to be a cop? That's a fact. Not all states, not all counties/departments. But some. That is a fact.

STFU already. Adults are trying to talk...
 
Typing a topic into google does not identify nor suggest a solution to whatever problems you have discovered on Google
 
Quest said:
Typing a topic into google does not identify nor suggest a solution to whatever problems you have discovered on Google
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Yes, it does identify a problem. It's a problem we hear about all the time, and I checked the data to see if it was true and really an issue, and it was/is. I don't claim to have all the solutions. This is like the tenth time I'm saying that. But I stand by my claims that there are problems, and they should be addressed. Go bother someone else...
 
Teachers aren't allowed to have sex with students but they do. How do we solve that?

Are teachers not recieving good training?
 
Quest said:
Teachers aren't allowed to have sex with students but they do. How do we solve that?

Are teachers not recieving good training?
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There ARE rules/laws that say they can't. There are/were NOT rules/laws that said officers weren't allowed to in 30+ states. Officers could claim that the sex was consensual, when consent isn't possible in that situation.

I'm not saying we can ELIMINATE the problem, only that BETTER POLICY to help ensure it doesn't happen, or at least to ensure that when it does, people are punished properly for it, and are not in a position to do it again.

And I said I DON'T HAVE THE ANSWERS/SOLUTIONS, ONLY THAT I KNOW IT'S A PROBLEM.

What don't you get? Do I need to break out the crayons and draw a picture for you?
 
I don't get how you can sit in your chair and identify problems with police training when you have received zero police training or do you work in the sector
 
thebigt said:
i think it's quite possible you have misunderstood what he was saying...taking the 20% figure that is applied to seals and transfering this to average cops is mind blowing.
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Well we do want cops to have more training and it is ridiculous that they aren’t continually training right? Also don’t think we really need to ask them if they want more training - no one likes training lol. I didn’t say the 20% though, that was his recommendation. But 80:20 ratio of work to training doesn’t immediately strike me as unreasonable. With more complicated logistics planning than any of us probably care to think about I’m sure something close to that could be done. Either way, the main point is cops barely train after the academy and rates of high stress realistic training are even lower and that should fixed. The amount of hours is somewhat immaterial as long as the baseline isn’t some garbage.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
I agree with you completely there. But am I taking Crazy Pills? Because I feel like I am dealing with Quest. I've repeatedly said I don't have all the answers, only that I know there are problems, and he keeps saying "you just 'goofle' things" and mocking me for doing research. Surely we all agree there are problems that need addressing. How is my "goofling" that to get data to confirm that there are problems somehow bad? I don't get it man. Please explain it to me. Am I missing something?
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Bro he is trolling you hard.
 
Quest said:
Type 123 new cases into goofle
I make a living off Google my friend
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I get just as many hits typing in "122 new cases" or "124 new cases." Or "69 new cases."

There are 3,141 counties in the U.S. all reporting daily data. Say we started tracking data in April. That's 3+ months, or ~13+ weeks, or 91+ days. 3141 counties x 91 days = 285,831 potential data points.

Over a QUARTER OF A MILLION DATA POINTS. Are you really surprised that we have some repeated numbers among a sample size of over a quarter millions.

What is the point you are trying to make?
 
Hilltern said:
Bro he is trolling you hard.
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I hope he is. Some people are just really stupid. So if I can help educate even one person reading this, I will say it's worth it. Hell, we as a group have actually made some solid progress and learned some new things recently, so it's not all wasteful.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
There ARE rules/laws that say they can't. There are/were NOT rules/laws that said officers weren't allowed to in 30+ states. Officers could claim that the sex was consensual, when consent isn't possible in that situation.

I'm not saying we can ELIMINATE the problem, only that BETTER POLICY to help ensure it doesn't happen, or at least to ensure that when it does, people are punished properly for it, and are not in a position to do it again.

And I said I DON'T HAVE THE ANSWERS/SOLUTIONS, ONLY THAT I KNOW IT'S A PROBLEM.

What don't you get? Do I need to break out the crayons and draw a picture for you?
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Bro, not only is he ignorant, but hes also a troll. An ignorant troll - you will not win my friend. Apparently, by his logic, anyone who isn’t a virologist or Infectious Disease Physician shouldn’t have an opinion about COVID, but i didn’t see that stopping him.

What was that quote you posted a few pages ago about not feeling sorry for people who cant appreciate logical reasoning...?
 
Quest said:
I don't get how you can sit in your chair and identify problems with police training when you have received zero police training or do you work in the sector
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I'm not saying I know what the problems are with police training. Only that there are problems with POLICING ITSELF, and that these problems should be addressed.

Anyway, I'm done with you now.

If you want my comeback, you'll have to scrape it off your mom's teeth.
 
jswain34 said:
Bro, not only is he ignorant, but hes also a troll. An ignorant troll - you will not win my friend. Apparently, by his logic, anyone who isn’t a virologist or Infectious Disease Physician shouldn’t have an opinion about COVID, but i didn’t see that stopping him.

What was that quote you posted a few pages ago about not feeling sorry for people who cant appreciate logical reasoning...?
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This. You can spend time helping people - that is commendable. But spare yourself from dealing with ignorant trolls and focus on the people actually open to a conversation who you could help, ya know?
 
jswain34 said:
Bro, not only is he ignorant, but hes also a troll. An ignorant troll - you will not win my friend. Apparently, by his logic, anyone who isn’t a virologist or Infectious Disease Physician shouldn’t have an opinion about COVID, but i didn’t see that stopping him.

What was that quote you posted a few pages ago about not feeling sorry for people who cant appreciate logical reasoning...?
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True, I'm glad you see it too. And it's "I have no respect for those with no respect for logic." I do feel sorry for him, sorry that he is so misguided and so ignorant. to paraphrase Socrates, nobody does wrong intentionally, it is only through ignorance of right and wrong that people do wrong. I'm very sorry someone like Quest is so blind to reason. I have no respect for him, but I do pity him.
 
Hilltern said:
This. You can spend time helping people - that is commendable. But spare yourself from dealing with ignorant trolls and focus on the people actually open to a conversation who you could help, ya know?
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Very good point. But I don't think it's been a complete waste. At least now I have some talking points, and data points, ready when I do have this discussion with rational people who are not blind to reason and logic. And who aren't trolls. Silver lining. I've enjoyed talking to the majority of people here, even the people I don't see eye to eye with.Most people here at least discuss things, even if we don't always see eye to eye, but some ignorant trolls are just that, ignorant trolls, and you're absolutely right, there is no reasoning with these people.
 
Quest said:
You are calling me ignorant and you have absolutely zero knowledge or experience in the topic.
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Not just ignorant, an ignorant troll. And I'm not the only one saying it. And it's no just on this topic. You're an ignorant troll in general. Have a nice night ignorant troll. It's been fun. ;)
jswain34 said:
Bro, not only is he ignorant, but hes also a troll. An ignorant troll - you will not win my friend. Apparently, by his logic, anyone who isn’t a virologist or Infectious Disease Physician shouldn’t have an opinion about COVID, but i didn’t see that stopping him.

What was that quote you posted a few pages ago about not feeling sorry for people who cant appreciate logical reasoning...?
Click to expand...
Hilltern said:
This. You can spend time helping people - that is commendable. But spare yourself from dealing with ignorant trolls and focus on the people actually open to a conversation who you could help, ya know?
Click to expand...
 
Oh **** what to do.
Maybe I should write a document for Google that ranks well for on how to handle trolls
 
Quest said:
Oh **** what to do.
Maybe I should write a document for Google that ranks well for on how to handle trolls
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What if I told you I've been using DuckDuckGo this whole time, not Google? What then ignorant troll? Or what if I'm one of those crazy people who uses Bing on Microsoft Edge? That changes everything!
 
Quest said:
Well being pulls all of the data from Google as does edge
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Edge is a browser, not a search engine. Ignorant once again. But I would like to know your funny names for Bing and DuckDuckGo like you had with "goofle." You like that one so much you've used it like a dozen times tonight. I know you have it in you to come up with some more. Let's hear them.
 
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