Donald Trump running for president

nostrum420 said:
Why wouldn't the same thing happen when the FBI or CIA tries to infiltrate other organizations?

What would be the distinction between the 2?
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because fbi/cia have legal authorization to infiltrate criminal organizations.

to infiltrate the police with intent to solicit murder is a totally different situation, i don't think any judge would sign off on that?
 
thebigt said:
because fbi/cia have legal authorization to infiltrate criminal organizations.

to infiltrate the police with intent to solicit murder is a totally different situation, i don't think any judge would sign off on that?
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So you think when the FBI or CIA infiltrates the is civil rights groups it's always with a judge's approval?
 
nostrum420 said:
So, why isn't it up to the federal government to decide what's necessary on a federal level?
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Its not their role, its about balance of powers, setting up a country of mini countries,

Federal and centralized powers is dangerous to humanity, as we have all the history to prove its the worst of the worst.
 
ax1 said:
Its not their role, its about balance of powers, setting up a country of mini countries,

Federal and centralized powers is dangerous to humanity, as we have all the history to prove its the worst of the worst.
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Why aren't central governments of States just as dangerous?
 
nostrum420 said:
So you think when the FBI or CIA infiltrates the is civil rights groups it's always with a judge's approval?
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Nope, they have been totally compromised and need to go.

Currently, the government had the audacity to create its own court called the FISA court, its all in secret so perhaps they can go to court, claim elements of terrorism in BLM or other group or more realistically use "threat to national security" and they get their permission slips. More than likely FBI and CIA acts in rogue with shadow government in the case of civil rights groups.
 
ax1 said:
Its not their role, its about balance of powers, setting up a country of mini countries,

Federal and centralized powers is dangerous to humanity, as we have all the history to prove its the worst of the worst.
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I think there was an awful lot of history before centralized governments existed that was also really bad possibly even worse than what happened after centralized governments gained the power of state violence.
 
ax1 said:
Nope, they have been totally compromised and need to go.

Currently, the government had the audacity to create its own court called the FISA court, its all in secret so perhaps they can go to court, claim elements of terrorism in BLM or other group or more realistically use "threat to national security" and they get their permission slips. More than likely FBI and CIA acts in rogue with shadow government in the case of civil rights groups.
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So, again, what's to stop them from infiltrating the police force that you seem to be OK with having the power of extrajudicial execution?
 
nostrum420 said:
Why aren't central governments of States just as dangerous?
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They are, thats why we want to limit its powers and keep their role as minimal as possible.

We are trying to set up a situation that is minimally dangerous to the rights of people, but they are going to grow and expand no matter what, thats why the 2A was put in there, it wasnt there for hunting bunny rabbits.

Key here is balance of powers, not no powers.
 
ax1 said:
They are, thats why we want to limit its powers and keep their role as minimal as possible.

We are trying to set up a situation that is minimally dangerous to the rights of people, but they are going to grow and expand no matter what, thats why the 2A was put in there, it wasnt there for hunting bunny rabbits.

Key here is balance of powers, not no powers.
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So, if you have to use your 2nd amendment rights to defend yourself from a tyrannical government, who do you think you're going to be shooting at?
 
nostrum420 said:
I think there was an awful lot of history before centralized governments existed that was also really bad possibly even worse than what happened after centralized governments gained the power of state violence.
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Good, so we have a Constitution Republic as we have set and do our best to protect it.
 
nostrum420 said:
So, if you have to use your 2nd amendment rights to defend yourself from a tyrannical government, who do you think you're going to be shooting at?
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Hopefully we wont ever need to find out, but sounds like more fun than throwing bricks, sticks and malatove (how spell that? lol) cocktails.
 
ax1 said:
Good, so we have a Constitution Republic as we have set and do our best to protect it.
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Again, if we have to defend the Constitution against a government that has become tyrannical, who are we going to be shooting at?
 
ax1 said:
Hopefully we wont ever need to find out, but sounds like more fun than throwing bricks, sticks and malatove (how spell that? lol) cocktails.
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Are you admitting in that scenario you would be shooting at cops?

*molotov
 
nostrum420 said:
So you think when the FBI or CIA infiltrates the is civil rights groups it's always with a judge's approval?
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do you want to know what i think or what comey/brennen says is the way it's done, lol...what i think is that the fbi/cia have guidelines, i would hope that if they infiltrated those groups that at least a few would not approve of the government soliciting them for assasinations.

you don't believe their are good people in civil rights groups who would be against government sanctioned assasinations? isn't this the kind of tyranny they are fighting against?
 
thebigt said:
do you want to know what i think or what comey/brennen says is the way it's done, lol...what i think is that the fbi/cia have guidelines, i would hope that if they infiltrated those groups that at least a few would not approve of the government soliciting them for assasinations.

you don't believe their are good people in civil rights groups who would be against government sanctioned assasinations? isn't this the kind of tyranny they are fighting against?
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It is. Precisely.
 
nostrum420 said:
Are you admitting in that scenario you would be shooting at cops?

*molotov
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You never know....thankfully here in NY at least we did enough to force reforms and its law all police have to get with their communities and and make that reform happen by April 1st or lose all State funding. Our history with the 2A and US Constitution has allowed this situation to happen, well it helped not be in a situtation where our protestors and BLM weren't run over by tanks.
 
ax1 said:
You never know....thankfully here in NY at least we did enough to force reforms and its law all police have to get with their communities and and make that reform happen by April 1st or lose all State funding. Our history with the 2A and US Constitution has allowed this situation to happen, well it helped not be in a situtation where our protestors and BLM weren't run over by tanks.
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A lot of those reforms would prohibit shooting in a case like Rayshard Brooks, a shooting which you've been defending. So which is it? Do you support the cops rights to shoot a drunkard with a taser or do you support the reforms that would make that illegal?
 
nostrum420 said:
It is. Precisely.
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and if you put your emotional feeling towards the police aside for a minute, the rational side of your brain will tell you there are a vast majority of police who would never tolerate being infiltrated by fbi/cia for purposes of assasinations, any more than civil rights groups would tolerate this!!!!!!!
 
nostrum420 said:
A lot of those reforms would prohibit shooting in a case like Rayshard Brooks, a shooting which you've been defending. So which is it? Do you support the cops rights to shoot a drunkard with a taser or do you support the reforms that would make that illegal?
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Everybody has their own ideas of what these reforms should be, personally police have a right to shoot in self defense. Part of reforms I support is investing more into training and continued education for the police. I feel they have been set up for failure in many ways but Im also a supporter in reforming the justice system as its too biased and slow.

Police need personal liability insurance paid out of their own pocket to better hold them accountable for their decisions.
 
nostrum420 said:
That opens the door to running over right wingers protesting lock downs too, though...
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i need empirical evidence that it is only right wingers against lock downs...many liberal are not happy about their businesses being shut down, imo.
 
nostrum420 said:
So, why isn't it up to the federal government to decide what's necessary on a federal level?
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Its hard to answer, we would need to clarify exactly what decisions and role they play. As Ive said, Im a fan of the Constitution, its all there and a pretty decent system of governance.
 
ax1 said:
Its hard to answer, we would need to clarify exactly what decisions and role they play. As Ive said, Im a fan of the Constitution, its all there and a pretty decent system of governance.
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i don't see how anyone could find fault with the constitution...it is the interpretation where people find faults.
 
thebigt said:
i don't see how anyone could find fault with the constitution...it is the interpretation where people find faults.
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I dont really wanna here it that its racist, of course we need to education our history and the worst of it but we win by applying and fighting to enforce the protections of our rights to each and all of us.
 
ax1 said:
I dont really wanna here it that its racist, of course we need to education our history and the worst of it but we win by applying and fighting to enforce the protections of our rights to each and all of us.
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huh?
 
Power-Lift said:
Would love to see that happen to those violent hate-groups, ANTIFA, BLM, etc.
Pure retards...
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Well, lol lets think this over. Not everyone is ANTIFA and BLM are violent. They are allowed to be "hate-groups." Thats their right and we ought to do all we can to protect their rights.

Those that have committed violence all need proper due process. Looters of course, prosecute them, and you will find that most probably were not even associated with those groups. They you have cases where police struck first, so there is a case of self defense when the riots were happening. Burning buildings down? Well thats certainly a crime, burning a police station down? Well....I dont support that but lets just say I can understand...lol.
 
thebigt said:
huh?
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You never hear people trying to invalidate the contents of the US Constitution because some of the founders were pro slavery and slaughtered Natives? They will say its a racist document and it doesnt protect the rights of black people, which technically is not true?
 
nostrum420 said:
A lot of those reforms would prohibit shooting in a case like Rayshard Brooks, a shooting which you've been defending. So which is it? Do you support the cops rights to shoot a drunkard with a taser or do you support the reforms that would make that illegal?
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To be clear about the tazer, if your behind the wheel drunk and fail a sobriety test then resist arrest and facing punishment for your crimes I would love the police to call me so I can go there and taze the crap out of them. Non-lethally of course.
 
ax1 said:
You never hear people trying to invalidate the contents of the US Constitution because some of the founders were pro slavery and slaughtered Natives? They will say its a racist document and it doesnt protect the rights of black people, which technically is not true?
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if i find a bakery that makes the most delicious baked goods i have ever ate....then find out i don't agree with owners politics does that make the baked goods any less tasty?
 
thebigt said:
if i find a bakery that makes the most delicious baked goods i have ever ate....then find out i don't agree with owners politics does that make the baked goods any less tasty?
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To bad you can no longer order Aunt Jemima Pancakes pancakes from that bakery.

Did you hear her great grandson is flipping out over this?
 
ax1 said:
I think the police should just walk off for a week since they arent wanted and see what happens.

I heard in Atlanta alot of them called in sick, so the local govenrment is giving each cop a $500 bonus...rRRRRrrROROOFLLLLFFFFFFFFF thats $100 less than a burger flipper gets on unemployment these days for staying home each week!
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Local government isn’t giving them the bonus. It’s coming from the Atlanta Police Foundation. They’re also paying to replace patrol cars that were damaged during the riots.

Agreed $500 is a joke, the Atlanta DA is a joke also. He knew he was going to charge him the night it happened.
 
thebigt said:
if i find a bakery that makes the most delicious baked goods i have ever ate....then find out i don't agree with owners politics does that make the baked goods any less tasty?
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You know, you may have been to young but when I was a kid people looked at drinking and driving as a indefensible crime on humanity, now they are martyrs of injustices for defending their erroneous irresponsible acts.

Damn the world has changed.
 
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thebigt said:
and if you put your emotional feeling towards the police aside for a minute, the rational side of your brain will tell you there are a vast majority of police who would never tolerate being infiltrated by fbi/cia for purposes of assasinations, any more than civil rights groups would tolerate this!!!!!!!
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Precisely.
 
sammpedd88 said:
You know they would jump on that bandwagon in a heart beat.
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they still need to be asked where they stand for the record....i'm not certain they would be so eager for that bandwagon. baby Jesus no matter color represents something sacred for many southern baptist blacks and blacks today report higher memberships in churches than do any other group including whites.
 
Democrats: Where do the candidates stand on ending police brutality and better preparing our nation against infectious diseases?
Republicans: What color do the candidates think the tooth fairy is?
😂
 
Aleksandar37 said:
Democrats: Where do the candidates stand on ending police brutality and better preparing our nation against infectious diseases?
Republicans: What color do the candidates think the tooth fairy is?
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Liberals: triggered from the use of “fairy”.
 
thebigt said:
they still need to be asked where they stand for the record....i'm not certain they would be so eager for that bandwagon. baby Jesus no matter color represents something sacred for many southern baptist blacks and blacks today report higher memberships in churches than do any other group including whites.
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I love in NC, born and raised. I know exactly what you mean about the black churches. Those are some of the most devoted people to their religion you’d ever meet. Also some of the nicest and most welcoming people. I actually taught a concealed carry class at a black church standing in the sanctuary at the pulpit. It was my favorite class I’ve ever taught.

Extreme liberals have downed Christianity but have bent over backwards for religious freedom for other religions. Makes no sense.
 
thebigt said:
they still need to be asked where they stand for the record....i'm not certain they would be so eager for that bandwagon. baby Jesus no matter color represents something sacred for many southern baptist blacks and blacks today report higher memberships in churches than do any other group including whites.
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I live in NC, born and raised. I know exactly what you mean about the black churches. Those are some of the most devoted people to their religion you’d ever meet. Also some of the nicest and most welcoming people. I actually taught a concealed carry class at a black church standing in the sanctuary at the pulpit. It was my favorite class I’ve ever taught.

Extreme liberals have downed Christianity but have bent over backwards for religious freedom for other religions. Makes no sense.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
True and I do suppose the word tooth is offensive to Republicans and their lack of them. This is complicated!
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Republicans lack teeth? Pelosi almost loses her denchers everytime she speaks....lol
 
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