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Donald Trump running for president

ax1 said:
Here in NY King Cumho is taking the lead. Yesterday he gave every, and I mean every police police department 9 months to get with their communities and reform....no reform no more state money. Want no reform, fine but then no funding. Show reform then continue to get state funding. What reform? Well get with the communities and figure it out, there is no choice. State Police? They got their thing going too.

Im not a King Cumho guy, but he gets shyt done. He told all the protestors that they already won.
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He said the exact same thing in 2014.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
Show me where. This guy pointed a weapon at a cop and that makes him an idiot or suicidal. Under normal circumstances the cop getting fired wouldn't have happened at all, especially not so quickly and it's a shame that this shooting is going to get the same weight as George Floyd, because it's not the same. This is an example though of why better training is needed. Watch the video and you'll see that both of those cops are lucky that he didn't grab one of their actual guns and kill them both. Had he been a different man, he might have and that should never happen with a solo public intoxication.
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Admin said:
He said the exact same thing in 2014.
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He is actually passing real laws though in the books, banning choke-holds and increasing transparency. Im not saying I agree with all his reforms, just saying he is actually doing reform, some that makes sense to me. Personally I think reforms need to start with actual policies such as ending the war on drugs, eliminating ticket quotas and stopping the police from being the armed collection agency for the government, etc...I can go on but its a start. Being a cop these days suck and I feel most want to do a good job but are set up to fail both by the training and the system itself.

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ax1 said:
He is actually passing real laws though in the books, banning choke-holds and increasing transparency. Im not saying I agree with all his reforms, just saying he is actually doing reform, some that makes sense to me. Personally I think reforms need to start with actual policies such as ending the war on drugs, eliminating ticket quotas and stopping the police from being the armed collection agency for the government, etc...I can go on but its a start. Being a cop these days suck and I feel most want to do a good job but are set up to fail both by the training and the system itself.

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Great, so instead of chokeholds they'll just taze them more. Another shiny object to combat a failure of culture.
 
Admin said:
Great, so instead of chokeholds they'll just taze them more. Another shiny object to combat a failure of culture.
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Personally, Id rather regulate chokeholds and provide better training. Maybe its better to temporarily stop it until training reform occurs, but just banning or regulating chokeholds wont help.

I think people are a very misdirected and should focus on wiping out big government and replacing it with polititions that actually support the US Constitution rather than being overly narrow on the police and wanting even bigger government, thats why Im not on the same page as most of the protestors.

To be clear on my position, "Blue Lives" matters, Im not anti-police at all. I cant believe Id be called a racist by some just for saying that.
 
Admin said:
Thats why I said it "sounds" like because it is an assumption of your attitude thats impossible to prove unless you literally come out and say it.





True.


I think George Floyd murder has a ton of weight and no sane person disagrees the guy was murdered.


Maybe, but its certainly not going to fix it.



Which is probably in the cops mind as well....but impossible to prove.


When you have an organization that is continually assigned the task of dealing with the day to day dehumanization of its people.... the organization will eventually become dehumanizing itself...and the fix isn't to look at the cops, even though guilty at times...but the community as a whole. Until the you change the culture of dehumanization in a nation with 390 million guns....this problem will never go away and people will constantly argue over symptoms rather than the cause....and race, rather than class will be the constant shiny object...Have a nice night.
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What? We clearly need some level of police reform, and that can’t be done by looking at anyone but the police.

Too often police departments not only look the other way when their officers commit crimes, but even actively try to cover up said crimes. That needs to be changed, and that is solely an issue with police, not the general population or culture.

Would police reform fix all problems and police shootings? Of course not, but it would go a long way to helping to restore peoples’ trust in the police. Hell, did you know that as recently as 2018, 35 states (70% of them) didn’t have laws on the books explicitly barring an officer from having sex with someone in custody? That’s f**ked up man.
 
nostrum420 said:
Looks like being afraid to be tazed is cause to kill someone.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm... 🤔
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If an officer is tazed, he would incapacitated giving the suspect access to his firearm. Therefore, this is a justified shooting.
 
If you don't want to get shot, don't take weapons away for an officer. Pretty simple really.
 
anyone see similarities between todays rioting and looting and the ira bombings of the 70's?

google the reason for the ira bombings.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
What? We clearly need some level of police reform, and that can’t be done by looking at anyone but the police.

Too often police departments not only look the other way when their officers commit crimes, but even actively try to cover up said crimes. That needs to be changed, and that is solely an issue with police, not the general population or culture.

Would police reform fix all problems and police shootings? Of course not, but it would go a long way to helping to restore peoples’ trust in the police. Hell, did you know that as recently as 2018, 35 states (70% of them) didn’t have laws on the books explicitly barring an officer from having sex with someone in custody? That’s f**ked up man.
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i don't think we need to look at reform or defunding...no one wants to be a cop.
 
nostrum420 said:
My nephew does.
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your nephew has brass balls. he has my respect...

i remember enlisting right after nam, the military was about as popular back then as police are today. i caught a lot of flack from people i had grown up with.
 
thebigt said:
i don't think we need to look at reform or defunding...no one wants to be a cop.
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We don’t need to look at reform? So it’s fine for officers to have sex with people in their custody? It’s fine to continue the crazy number of no-knock raids, often at the wrong houses? It’s fine for departments to continue to cover up for bad officers when they do bad? GTFO with that BS. Most cops aren’t bad, but that doesn’t mean we can’t try to make it so the bad ones are weeded out, and especially that they’re not protected by the department.
 
thebigt said:
your nephew has brass balls. he has my respect...

i remember enlisting right after nam, the military was about as popular back then as police are today. i caught a lot of flack from people i had grown up with.
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Wouldn’t you have to know WHY he wants to be a cop before you give him your respect? Serious question. Wanting to be a cop to help protect the community is noble, wanting to be a cop to drive a cop car with lights and sirens and have a gun isn’t exactly.

Thank you for your service by the way!
 
muscleupcrohn said:
We don’t need to look at reform? So it’s fine for officers to have sex with people in their custody? It’s fine to continue the crazy number of no-knock raids, often at the wrong houses? It’s fine for departments to continue to cover up for bad officers when they do bad? GTFO with that BS. Most cops aren’t bad, but that doesn’t mean we can’t try to make it so the bad ones are weeded out, and especially that they’re not protected by the department.
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look at the minneapolis police situation...over a year ago i was saying that there was such a shortage of police there that cops couldn't respond to all 911 calls. all over this country there were shortages of police, recruitment was almost non-existent. and that was before george floyd.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Wouldn’t you have to know WHY he wants to be a cop before you give him your respect? Serious question. Wanting to be a cop to help protect the community is noble, wanting to be a cop to drive a cop car with lights and sirens and have a gun isn’t exactly.

Thank you for your service by the way!
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driving a cop car with lights and sirens sounds pretty cool, actually...as far as having a gun, i have quite a few myself and i am not a cop.
 
thebigt said:
driving a cop car with lights and sirens sounds pretty cool, actually...as far as having a gun, i have quite a few myself and i am not a cop.
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You know what I mean haha. I mean that if you want to be an officer to protect the community, that’s awesome, but if you want it because you get to speed in a car and are allowed to pull a gun on people at work, in short, for the power the position affords you, that isn’t quite so noble IMO. Granted, I’m not saying most officers are in the latter group, only that motives matter too, and not all things that appear noble actually are.
 
thebigt said:
driving a cop car with lights and sirens sounds pretty cool, actually...as far as having a gun, i have quite a few myself and i am not a cop.
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You know what I mean haha. I mean that if you want to be an officer to protect the community, that’s awesome, but if you want it because you get to speed in a car and are allowed to pull a gun on people at work, in short, for the power the position affords you, that isn’t quite so noble IMO. Granted, I’m not saying most officers are in the latter group, only that motives matter too, and not all things that appear noble actually are.
 
thebigt said:
look at the minneapolis police situation...over a year ago i was saying that there was such a shortage of police there that cops couldn't respond to all 911 calls. all over this country there were shortages of police, recruitment was almost non-existent. and that was before george floyd.
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In South Florida, there’s no shortage at all. Hell, I know multiple people who couldn’t even get into the academy here despite having no criminal record or anything even remotely disqualifying. They pretty much require a two year degree at minimum around here, at least a few months ago anyway.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
In South Florida, there’s no shortage at all. Hell, I know multiple people who couldn’t even get into the academy here despite having no criminal record or anything even remotely disqualifying. They pretty much require a two year degree at minimum around here, at least a few months ago anyway.
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florida is a red state. if it goes bule look for this to change, imo.

from the little i know about law enforcement in florida i think the cubans are kinda like the irish were back in new york, law enforcement is a preferred job choice-from what i know the cubans are big on law enforcement?
 
muscleupcrohn said:
You know what I mean haha. I mean that if you want to be an officer to protect the community, that’s awesome, but if you want it because you get to speed in a car and are allowed to pull a gun on people at work, in short, for the power the position affords you, that isn’t quite so noble IMO. Granted, I’m not saying most officers are in the latter group, only that motives matter too, and not all things that appear noble actually are.
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everyone here where i live drives too fast, hardly ever see a car pulled over for speeding.

maybe you should check on background of surgeons, could be they just like cutting people with sharp instruments? lol

oh yeah, more often than not people i see daily are carrying. try going to a gun store and buying a gun-probably won't have any.
 
nostrum420 said:
Maybe between the two that were on him, they could have been competent enough not to lose it to a drunk guy in the first place.
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in all fairness, i was a mean, angry, fearless drunk. there was a time when i would have been jailed for assault on several cops had they not beat the **** out of me, i consider myself lucky, they would have been justified if they had shot me. back then my family would have thought they were justified also, there would have been no protests.
 
nostrum420 said:
Maybe between the two that were on him, they could have been competent enough not to lose it to a drunk guy in the first place.
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Good point. We should defund them so they can't afford to train anymore.
 
thebigt said:
everyone here where i live drives too fast, hardly ever see a car pulled over for speeding.

maybe you should check on background of surgeons, could be they just like cutting people with sharp instruments? lol

oh yeah, more often than not people i see daily are carrying. try going to a gun store and buying a gun-probably won't have any.
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What? Your surgeon example makes no sense man. Yeah, let’s go to school for over a decade and go hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt because you like cutting people? That makes zero sense...

Are you saying no one ever became a cop because they wanted power and authority? Come on man, there are some bad apple out there, and too often departments look the other way, or even help cover up for them.

Surely you agree that if a cop murders someone, or acts in a clearly racist way, they should be in trouble, and the department shouldn’t cover up their wrongdoing? No?
 
thebigt said:
in all fairness, i was a mean, angry, fearless drunk. there was a time when i would have been jailed for assault on several cops had they not beat the **** out of me, i consider myself lucky, they would have been justified if they had shot me. back then my family would have thought they were justified also, there would have been no protests.
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As far as Atlanta goes, where is all the outrage on another civilian behind the wheel drunk???!!?
 
muscleupcrohn said:
What? Your surgeon example makes no sense man. Yeah, let’s go to school for over a decade and go hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt because you like cutting people? That makes zero sense...

Are you saying no one ever became a cop because they wanted power and authority? Come on man, there are some bad apple out there, and too often departments look the other way, or even help cover up for them.

Surely you agree that if a cop murders someone, or acts in a clearly racist way, they should be in trouble, and the department shouldn’t cover up their wrongdoing? No?
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It’s a Union job. Different rules for different folks.
 
ax1 said:
It’s a Union job. Different rules for different folks.
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I can tell you that if a firefighter had sex with someone they were bringing to the hospital, their coworkers wouldn’t usually cover up for them, and their department wouldn’t cover it up. Maybe the union still appoints them a lawyer/rep to defend them, but the department themselves doesn’t cover it up, trust me.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
What? Your surgeon example makes no sense man. Yeah, let’s go to school for over a decade and go hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt because you like cutting people? That makes zero sense...

Are you saying no one ever became a cop because they wanted power and authority? Come on man, there are some bad apple out there, and too often departments look the other way, or even help cover up for them.

Surely you agree that if a cop murders someone, or acts in a clearly racist way, they should be in trouble, and the department shouldn’t cover up their wrongdoing? No?
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There are bad people in every profession. Sociopaths will have zero problem making it through the hiring process
 
manifesto said:
There are bad people in every profession. Sociopaths will have zero problem making it through the hiring process
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I’m not talking so much about trying to weed out the bad apples before they get the job, I’m talking about preventing departments from covering up the wrongdoings of said sociopaths, or at the least turning a blind eye to them, once they are hired and show themselves to be sociopaths on the job. Come on, surely we can agree on that?
 
muscleupcrohn said:
What? Your surgeon example makes no sense man. Yeah, let’s go to school for over a decade and go hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt because you like cutting people? That makes zero sense...

Are you saying no one ever became a cop because they wanted power and authority? Come on man, there are some bad apple out there, and too often departments look the other way, or even help cover up for them.

Surely you agree that if a cop murders someone, or acts in a clearly racist way, they should be in trouble, and the department shouldn’t cover up their wrongdoing? No?
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surely you agree if looters/rioters injure a cop politicians should not come to their defense?

i think bad behavior should be punished, there is no where i have have said differently.

the cops in the george floyd case are being punished, i want to see those injuring/killing cops being punished.

btw-of all people killed[total number]by cops, how many were black?
 
muscleupcrohn said:
I’m not talking so much about trying to weed out the bad apples before they get the job, I’m talking about preventing departments from covering up the wrongdoings of said sociopaths, or at the least turning a blind eye to them, once they are hired and show themselves to be sociopaths on the job. Come on, surely we can agree on that?
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I agree, and I dont department coverups are widespread....at all. The liberal media would have you believe every department is corrupt
 
muscleupcrohn said:
I can tell you that if a firefighter had sex with someone they were bringing to the hospital, their coworkers wouldn’t usually cover up for them, and their department wouldn’t cover it up. Maybe the union still appoints them a lawyer/rep to defend them, but the department themselves doesn’t cover it up, trust me.
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There is a lot of pressure on NYC within the departments. There is a club like mentality, let’s say you live in Staten Island and are Staten Island police....you complain about another officer .... then they relocate you to another precinct, let’s say the Bronx. Now your daily travel to and from work is another additional 3 hours a day which is time away from your kids and family. They can make your life miserable if you don’t stand for the “club.”
 
thebigt said:
surely you agree if looters/rioters injure a cop politicians should not come to their defense?

i think bad behavior should be punished, there is no where i have have said differently.

the cops in the george floyd case are being punished, i want to see those injuring/killing cops being punished.

btw-of all people killed[total number]by cops, how many were black?
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Wayyyyy more unarmed white people are killed then black people.
 
thebigt said:
surely you agree if looters/rioters injure a cop politicians should not come to their defense?

i think bad behavior should be punished, there is no where i have have said differently.

the cops in the george floyd case are being punished, i want to see those injuring/killing cops being punished.

btw-of all people killed[total number]by cops, how many were black?
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Yes, these cops in the Floyd case are being charged, but surely you can acknowledge that for many times, departments covered up wrongdoing (internal investigations), or turned blind eyes to it. And you never acknowledged my point that as recently as 2018, 70% of states didn’t have laws against officers having sex with people in their custody. That’s f**ked up, no? And all the no-knock raids on the wrong homes?

Surely those things should be fixed, no? That’s some police reform I think most people can get behind that won’t hurt good officers at all.
 
"No knock raids" are necessary at times when and armed suspect is perceived to be inside. Now, i heard the story about the wrong house getting hit. The officers on that should be in trouble.
 
ax1 said:
There is a lot of pressure on NYC within the departments. There is a club like mentality, let’s say you live in Staten Island and are Staten Island police....you complain about another officer .... then they relocate you to another precinct, let’s say the Bronx. Now your daily travel to and from work is another additional 3 hours a day which is time away from your kids and family. They can make your life miserable if you don’t stand for the “club.”
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Which is BS. But I see how it could make good officers hesitant to try to stand up to, or tell on, bad ones. That needs to change.
 
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