Donald Trump running for president

[ax1]

Anyone ever read into COINTELPRO? Yikes

Wow, been a while since I heard that one....I bought that up for a discussion a couple of times in my old 9/11 thread I think.

I guarantee nothing has changed.

 

[Jiigzz]

Wow, been a while since I heard that one....I bought that up for a discussion a couple of times in my old 9/11 thread I think.

I guarantee nothing has changed.

That's actually insane. I must have missed those posts of yours.

 

[ax1]

That's actually insane. I must have missed those posts of yours.

Ha thats totally exusable, you probably have other things to do although Im sure thats rare!

I gotta explain my Obobo being part of the system stance via his support for the War on Drugs. Im singling him out today because he had that "Town Hall" but to all those who think the answer is voting Dump out for a Demo-krap you arent getting any change.

The shocking story behind Richard Nixon’s ‘War on Drugs’ that targeted blacks and anti-war activists

This Sunday, June 17 will mark the 47th anniversary of a shameful day in US history — it’s when President Richard Nixon’s declared what has been the US government’s longest and costliest war — the epic failure known as the Invalid Link Removed. At a press conference on that day in 1971, Nixon identified drug abuse as “public enemy number one in the United States” and launched a failed, costly and inhumane federal war on Americans that continues to today. Early the following year, Nixon created the Office of Drug Abuse Law Enforcement (ODALE) in January 1972 to wage a government war on otherwise peaceful and innocent Americans who voluntarily chose to ingest plants, weeds, and intoxicants proscribed by the government. In July 1973, ODALE was consolidated, along with several other federal drug agencies, into the newly established Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) as a new “super agency” to handle all aspects of the War on Drugs Otherwise Peaceful Americans.

But as John Ehrlichman, Nixon’s counsel and Assistant for Domestic Affairs, revealed in 1994, the real public enemy in 1971 wasn’t really drugs or drug abuse. Rather the real enemies of the Nixon administration were the anti-war left and blacks, and the War on Drugs was designed as an evil, deceptive and sinister policy to wage a war on those two groups. In an article in the April 2016 issue of The Atlantic (“Invalid Link Removed“) author and reporter Dan Baum explains how “John Ehrlichman, the Watergate co-conspirator, unlocked for me one of the great mysteries of modern American history: How did the United States entangle itself in a policy of drug prohibition that has yielded so much misery and so few good results?” As Baum discovered, here’s the dirty and disgusting secret to that great mystery of what must be the most expensive, shameful, and reprehensible failed government policy in US history.

Americans have been criminalizing psychoactive substances since San Francisco’s anti-opium law of 1875, but it was Ehrlichman’s boss, Richard Nixon, who declared the first “War on Drugs” in 1971 and set the country on the wildly punitive and counterproductive path it still pursues. I’d tracked Ehrlichman, who had been Nixon’s domestic-policy adviser, to an engineering firm in Atlanta, where he was working on minority recruitment. At the time, I was writing a book about the politics of drug prohibition. I started to ask Ehrlichman a series of earnest, wonky questions that he impatiently waved away.

“You want to know what this was really all about?” he asked with the bluntness of a man who, after public disgrace and a stretch in federal prison, had little left to protect. “The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or blacks, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”

Nixon’s invention of the War on Drugs as a political tool was cynical, but every president since — Democrat and Republican alike — has found it equally useful for one reason or another. Meanwhile, the growing cost of the Drug War is now impossible to ignore: billions of dollars wasted, bloodshed in Latin America and on the streets of our own cities, and millions of lives destroyed by draconian punishment that doesn’t end at the prison gate; one of every eight black men has been disenfranchised because of a felony conviction.

Rest of story: Invalid Link Removed

 

[Aleksandar37]

Well, for starters I’m thinking the program that was originally set up to counter the Civil Rights movement of the 60s to oppress minorities which is the war on drugs, that one is huge and Obobo supports that.

Next, Obobo supports government ownership of American Minorities via gun flinging beurocrats stealing the fruits of their labor oppressing the most basics of personal freedom...sending and keeping minority troops overseas to fight unjust wars putting them in harms way.

I’d say Obobo caused the death of more black people globally his 8 years than all the police did in combination nationally.

Typical stuff my brain thinks with this flickering night light that keeps hovering over it.

Obama could have done much more in regard to the war on drugs, but were you expecting him to just ignore US laws? He pardoned quite a few drug convictions and tried to treat drug issues more as a health pandemic than a criminal one. Personally I would have liked to see him spend more energy on that subject than healthcare, but he certainly did better than Clinton or Bush did.

So who are we supposed to vote for? I've noticed that you haven't once mentioned the actual Libertarian nominee.

 

[Aleksandar37]

Anyone ever read into COINTELPRO? Yikes

Yep. Read more about Fred Hampton and see the same crap still happening in the US today.

 

[ax1]

Obama could have done much more in regard to the war on drugs, but were you expecting him to just ignore US laws? He pardoned quite a few drug convictions and tried to treat drug issues more as a health pandemic than a criminal one. Personally I would have liked to see him spend more energy on that subject than healthcare, but he certainly did better than Clinton or Bush did.

So who are we supposed to vote for? I've noticed that you haven't once mentioned the actual Libertarian nominee.

Was I expecting him to ignore US laws? No need, that was the norm! LOL

Obobo made it illegal for minorities to bypass the purchase health insurance plans. Being that I know what its like to be poor and unable to afford health insurance, at least I was able to scrap up some cash and the local health clinic would cut me deals when I got sick. Shyt, around that time was when I started to rise up (and stable) and able to afford health insurance so I wasnt effected by the law, but if I was a poor black kid waiting to get my tax check and the IRS stole my return because I couldnt afford insurance Id wanna kick Obobos azz and slap the crap out of that scamming thief.

 

[ax1]

but he certainly did better than Clinton or Bush did.

Ill just say I agree with that, but word it as....he wasnt as horrible as Bushy or William.

Off topic on War on Drugs, damn, I still think the Bushy era was a bit worse than the Dump era.

 

[Aleksandar37]

Was I expecting him to ignore US laws? No need, that was the norm! LOL

Obobo made it illegal for minorities to bypass the purchase health insurance plans. Being that I know what its like to be poor and unable to afford health insurance, at least I was able to scrap up some cash and the local health clinic would cut me deals when I got sick. Shyt, around that time was when I started to rise up (and stable) and able to afford health insurance so I wasnt effected by the law, but if I was a poor black kid waiting to get my tax check and the IRS stole my return because I couldnt afford insurance Id wanna kick Obobos azz and slap the crap out of that scamming thief.

You do realize that being a minority doesn't automatically mean you're poor, right? Sounded like Biden wrote your post for you lol

 

[ax1]

You do realize that being a minority doesn't automatically mean you're poor, right? Sounded like Biden wrote your post for you lol

With these discussions they are often referring to income equality and poverty as an issue so Im only going specifically off of that. From there Im picking out problems poor people face, since after all I have experience including being friends with other poor minorities and applying this experience to the issues we have today. In my personal life I only judge people individually.

Now, I do have to say, there is a difference between a national health insurance law and police departments targeting minority communities, the prior not being "racist" or discriminatory since its a one size fits all policy, but it doesnt help the problems of poor minority communities. Now I am aware also that some have been able to benefit from the Obobokare laws.

 

[ax1]

War mongering bloody genocidalist Up your Colon Powell is voting for Groper Joe....just more evidence Demicans and Republicrats are primarily the same pile of crap.

As far as policing goes, I think the best route to go is not to de-fund them, but reform the system. Police should be like anybody else in a profession, get personal liability insurance. No liability insurance no job. Use the Unions to administrate personal liability insurance. This way the entire system from the individual, to the Unions, and to the insurance companies will have better accountability to bad cops rather than the government policing itself.

Then to having better social services for minority communities, well...if you go that route police deserve better social services as well as police have the highest suicide rate of any profession, and they suffer triple the suicides than even dying on the line of duty! Invalid Link Removed

All lives matter, and police lives matter too. Programs shouldnt be one sided and based on the color of ones skin. If a impoverished community gets less public school funding than a better economic area, perhaps that should be addressed based off of that. Not because of skin color. The best way to keep people divided in society is to continue to divide them, fuq that crap. Alllivesmatters4life!

 

[ax1]

And yeah right, here i NY if you go to a mass protest you will now be taken care of and they will send tens of thousands of testing kits for the CCP Virus, but if you own a hair salon but dont have your own entrance on Tuesday inside a mall but are located next to the main entrance you get big fines and possible jail time even if you invested in social distance protocols.

Fuq King Cumho!

 

[Admin]

War mongering bloody genocidalist Up your Colon Powell is voting for Groper Joe....just more evidence Demicans and Republicrats are primarily the same pile of crap.

Strange this is a story. He's voted Democrat the last 3 elections.

 

[ax1]

Strange this is a story. He's voted Democrat the last 3 elections.

Im sure somehow someway it will be another story when the Bushy's vote for Groper Joe too who voted for Hitlery 4 years ago.

 

[ax1]

Up Your Colin Powell: Trump has 'drifted away' from the Constitution

Says the guy who propped up the unconstitutional invasion of a foreign sovereign nation based on lies.

 

[Aleksandar37]

Strange this is a story. He's voted Democrat the last 3 elections.

Exactly. In other news, the sky is blue.

 

[Aleksandar37]

Up Your Colin Powell: Trump has 'drifted away' from the Constitution

Says the guy who propped up the unconstitutional invasion of a foreign sovereign nation based on lies.

When Colin comes clean about his role in the My Lai Massacre, then I'll bother listening to anything he has to say.

 

[ax1]

I noticed a significant decrease in violence and looting with the dropping of these curfews. They even dropped it in NYC tonight.

Guess when you stop treating people wanting their voices heard like they are the Taliban, they stop responding like they are the Taliban. Fuqu Dump!!!!

 

[Aleksandar37]

I noticed a significant decrease in violence and looting with the dropping of these curfews. They even dropped it in NYC tonight.

Guess when you stop treating people wanting their voices heard like they are the Taliban, they stop responding like they are the Taliban. Fuqu Dump!!!!

I've seen multiple incidents in person and online of protesters stopping looters and those that are just out to destroy property as well.

 

[jswain34]

I noticed a significant decrease in violence and looting with the dropping of these curfews. They even dropped it in NYC tonight.

Guess when you stop treating people wanting their voices heard like they are the Taliban, they stop responding like they are the Taliban. Fuqu Dump!!!!

OR there has been a decrease in violence and looting which led to the mayors lifting curfews...

 

[Aleksandar37]

OR there has been a decrease in violence and looting which led to the mayors lifting curfews...

The curfews were bs anyway. Anybody that is going to loot doesn't care about a curfew and it was giving cops a reason to act in ways that are the reasons for the protests in the first place. I also saw several videos of cops looking the other way on white people walking around carrying guns and bats who were out after curfew because they were "helping".

 

[ax1]

OR there has been a decrease in violence and looting which led to the mayors lifting curfews...

Maybe...are partially...I think the unnecessary presence of police at peaceful protests led the the pressure and escalation that gave the distraction to go apeshyt at the levels it did, but thats just my own opinion...and I at least may be partially right, or partially right in certain areas. I think there is more than one answer to this.

 

[ax1]

The curfews were bs anyway. Anybody that is going to loot doesn't care about a curfew and it was giving cops a reason to act in ways that are the reasons for the protests in the first place. I also saw several videos of cops looking the other way on white people walking around carrying guns and bats who were out after curfew because they were "helping".

King Cumho primarily supported the curfews after the first couple of days of chaos, he just wanted to weed out the good people after assuring them most of the day to then go out of the way so they could take control of the choatic situation as night falls. It sounds like a fair deal but I think for the most part unrealistic on this level of peaceful protesting.

But now they went from fining people in NYC $1,000 for violating any social distancing rules to well....just be responsible and get tested while hair salons on the brink of bankruptcy still cant open inside of malls. And there goes the 24/7 CCP Virus coverage now that they have something else new and fresh that sells advertisements.

 

[Aleksandar37]

King Cumho primarily supported the curfews after the first couple of days of chaos, he just wanted to weed out the good people after assuring them most of the day to then go out of the way so they could take control of the choatic situation as night falls. It sounds like a fair deal but I think for the most part unrealistic on this level of peaceful protesting.

But now they went from fining people in NYC $1,000 for violating any social distancing rules to well....just be responsible and get tested while hair salons on the brink of bankruptcy still cant open inside of malls. And there goes the 24/7 CCP Virus coverage now that they have something else new and fresh that sells advertisements.

Malls have been obsolete for a while now. COVID is just forcing people to accept that fate.

 

[ax1]

So who here straight out supports of de-funding and abolishing the police out of their communities? What are you replacing that with, if anything?

I may be the smallest government guy here outside of the occasional anarchist that has stopped in the past, but to me this just seems naive and a load of reactionary lunacy.

 

[Admin]

So who here straight out supports of defending and abolishing the police out of their communities? What are you replacing that with, if anything?

I may be the smallest government guy here outside of the occasional anarchist that has stopped in the past, but to me this just seems naive and a load of reactionary lunacy.

Yeah..who's going to arrest you when you want to open your business now? lol

 

[Admin]

Invalid Link Removed


“What if, in the middle of the night, my home is broken into. Who do I call?” Camerota asked.

“Yes, I mean I hear that loud and clear from a lot of my neighbors, and myself, too, and I know that that comes from a place of privilege,” Bender answered. "




At this point, watching them eat themselves makes me want to vote Biden.

 

[ax1]

“What if, in the middle of the night, my home is broken into. Who do I call?” Camerota asked.

“Yes, I mean I hear that loud and clear from a lot of my neighbors, and myself, too, and I know that that comes from a place of privilege,” Bender answered. "

At this point, watching them eat themselves makes me want to vote Biden.

Invalid Link Removed

 

[Admin]

Invalid Link Removed

I know some guys that could do it. They need the work.



Invalid Link Removed

 

[ax1]

I know some guys that could do it. They need the work.



Invalid Link Removed

It’s ok, I haven’t seen any evidence people In Minnesota or other cities would ever cross the line and break into things. Everyone is too good for that. They can stay home safe from the CCP virus. Just vote for Groper Joe the next true black leader and the skies will shine!

 

[nostrum420]

War mongering bloody genocidalist Up your Colon Powell is voting for Groper Joe....just more evidence Demicans and Republicrats are primarily the same pile of crap.

As far as policing goes, I think the best route to go is not to de-fund them, but reform the system. Police should be like anybody else in a profession, get personal liability insurance. No liability insurance no job. Use the Unions to administrate personal liability insurance. This way the entire system from the individual, to the Unions, and to the insurance companies will have better accountability to bad cops rather than the government policing itself.

Then to having better social services for minority communities, well...if you go that route police deserve better social services as well as police have the highest suicide rate of any profession, and they suffer triple the suicides than even dying on the line of duty! Invalid Link Removed

All lives matter, and police lives matter too. Programs shouldnt be one sided and based on the color of ones skin. If a impoverished community gets less public school funding than a better economic area, perhaps that should be addressed based off of that. Not because of skin color. The best way to keep people divided in society is to continue to divide them, fuq that crap. Alllivesmatters4life!

I think in your insurance scenario, you'd see just as little accountability because the personal liability insurance for the cop would mean said cop being represented by a better lawyer than the alleged victim, in most cases. Also, defunding the police doesn't mean firing cops tomorrow it means shifting their toy budget to programs that have been shown to reduce/prevent crime rather than police it.

Economic justice is the first step toward racial and social justice, though. I deeply agree on that.

 

[New2this40]

I noticed a significant decrease in violence and looting with the dropping of these curfews. They even dropped it in NYC tonight.

Guess when you stop treating people wanting their voices heard like they are the Taliban, they stop responding like they are the Taliban. Fuqu Dump!!!!

Or they’ve stolen everything they wanted and don’t care about the “cause” anymore...

 

[ax1]

I think in your insurance scenario, you'd see just as little accountability because the personal liability insurance for the cop would mean said cop being represented by a better lawyer than the alleged victim, in most cases. Also, defunding the police doesn't mean firing cops tomorrow it means shifting their toy budget to programs that have been shown to reduce/prevent crime rather than police it.

Economic justice is the first step toward racial and social justice, though. I deeply agree on that.

This lawyer situation is an area for concern, but at least insurance companies can drop clients for repeat offenses compared to the system in place now. Perhaps there can be a regulation in there for better public representation when a case is with a public official? I dunno but something needs to be done. By having the Unions administer the insurance there is another layer where instead of protecting officers at all costs they are more opt to let them go. Of course, more reforms to be done...combine that with better public transparency and accountability and figuring out how to also protect individual police privacy. Ending the War on Drugs would help things out alot.

In MN they are talking completely abolishing the police department. I dunno they are talking some "alternative" model, but they havent leaked details about that yet. Invalid Link Removed

 

[Aleksandar37]

This lawyer situation is an area for concern, but at least insurance companies can drop clients for repeat offenses compared to the system in place now. Perhaps there can be a regulation in there for better public representation when a case is with a public official? I dunno but something needs to be done. By having the Unions administer the insurance there is another layer where instead of protecting officers at all costs they are more opt to let them go. Of course, more reforms to be done...combine that with better public transparency and accountability and figuring out how to also protect individual police privacy. Ending the War on Drugs would help things out alot.

In MN they are talking completely abolishing the police department. I dunno they are talking some "alternative" model, but they havent leaked details about that yet. Invalid Link Removed

The union has to go too. They've protected bad cops for too long and follow the same model as the Vatican does with pedophiles. The existing police have been given more than enough opportunities to reform and a sensitivity workshop isn't going to fix this, so burn it down and start from scratch.

 

[nostrum420]

This lawyer situation is an area for concern, but at least insurance companies can drop clients for repeat offenses compared to the system in place now. Perhaps there can be a regulation in there for better public representation when a case is with a public official? I dunno but something needs to be done. By having the Unions administer the insurance there is another layer where instead of protecting officers at all costs they are more opt to let them go. Of course, more reforms to be done...combine that with better public transparency and accountability and figuring out how to also protect individual police privacy. Ending the War on Drugs would help things out alot.

In MN they are talking completely abolishing the police department. I dunno they are talking some "alternative" model, but they havent leaked details about that yet. Invalid Link Removed

This still doesn't mean "no police" or that 1/2 the cops will be fired tomorrow. It mostly means their toy budget goes towards crime prevention programs.

 

[ax1]

This still doesn't mean "no police" or that 1/2 the cops will be fired tomorrow. It mostly means their toy budget goes towards crime prevention programs.

You know this is really getting confusing, and I dunno how police who are trained to police all the sudden qualified to do something else they are not trained for. They better have a plan in place instead of rushing things and making it up as they go along. If there is anything you can rush its a ban on chokeholds, eliminating traffic quotas, tear gas...etc....but I dunno I will have to see how this goes down.

 

[ax1]

This still doesn't mean "no police" or that 1/2 the cops will be fired tomorrow. It mostly means their toy budget goes towards crime prevention programs.

Ok so lets say there is an active bank robbery, how is that handled by a social worker? Talk their way out of it then let them walk home? Im trying to sound slightly funny, but its a legitimate question.

How do you prevent crime before it happens? Yeah, I know more equal education and better opportunities and guidance support in poor communities equals overall less crime in the future, but your not going to prevent bad people from doing bad things so how is this addressed without policing." What if there is a chronic old lady mugger on the streets, how to do solve this issue without proper old fashioned police work?

Im hoping your as confused as I am, lol

 

[Aleksandar37]

You know this is really getting confusing, and I dunno how police who are trained to police all the sudden qualified to do something else they are not trained for. They better have a plan in place instead of rushing things and making it up as they go along. If there is anything you can rush its a ban on chokeholds, eliminating traffic quotas, tear gas...etc....but I dunno I will have to see how this goes down.

Chokeholds have been banned in NYC since 93, so how did that work out for Eric Garner? Tear gas was supposed to be stopped in several cities, including here in Seattle, this past weekend, so instead the cops used flash bangs. If you're a good cop, then you'll be able to train and join what comes next. Bad cops can take the couple of months they got in training and **** off. An entire race of people needs to be able to stop being scared of dialing 911 because somebody isn't going to show up at all or is going to show up and possibly kill the very person that called the police.

 

[Aleksandar37]

Ok so lets say there is an active bank robbery, how is that handled by a social worker? Talk their way out of it then let them walk home? Im trying to sound slightly funny, but its a legitimate question.

How do you prevent crime before it happens? Yeah, I know more equal education and better opportunities and guidance support in poor communities equals overall less crime in the future, but your not going to prevent bad people from doing bad things so how is this addressed without policing." What if there is a chronic old lady mugger on the streets, how to do solve this issue without proper old fashioned police work?

Im hoping your as confused as I am, lol

Some police tactics have a place in certain crimes, but not all 911 responses. They're not going to have zero people working security, but this allows them to take a step back and see where the problem areas are. Again, no seminar on deescalation is going to help and they had their chance.

 

[ax1]

Chokeholds have been banned in NYC since 93, so how did that work out for Eric Garner? Tear gas was supposed to be stopped in several cities, including here in Seattle, this past weekend, so instead the cops used flash bangs. If you're a good cop, then you'll be able to train and join what comes next. Bad cops can take the couple of months they got in training and **** off. An entire race of people needs to be able to stop being scared of dialing 911 because somebody isn't going to show up at all or is going to show up and possibly kill the very person that called the police.

When the Eric Garner thing happened I proposed abolishing the income tax and ending the war on drugs. Thats what that was all about, he was selling Lucy cigarettes on the street and the government doesn't like it when you take a cut of the dirty cheese and not hand some back over.

I dont hear too much talk on laws that have police on the street doing government's hit-man work in the first place, and Id bet most of these people will continue to vote for government that props up these policies....in many cases in the name of voting for lesser of evils.

I agree bad cops need to **** off and that includes cops of all races and colors.

 

[nostrum420]

Ok so lets say there is an active bank robbery, how is that handled by a social worker? Talk their way out of it then let them walk home? Im trying to sound slightly funny, but its a legitimate question.

How do you prevent crime before it happens? Yeah, I know more equal education and better opportunities and guidance support in poor communities equals overall less crime in the future, but your not going to prevent bad people from doing bad things so how is this addressed without policing." What if there is a chronic old lady mugger on the streets, how to do solve this issue without proper old fashioned police work?

Im hoping your as confused as I am, lol

Like Aleksander said, there would still be cops for bank robberies but they're gonna take some of the cop money and put it into social workers for non-violent issues like mental health problems etc that we agree the police are not qualified to handle and shouldn't be expected to.

 

[ax1]

Some police tactics have a place in certain crimes, but not all 911 responses. They're not going to have zero people working security, but this allows them to take a step back and see where the problem areas are. Again, no seminar on deescalation is going to help and they had their chance.

I found a problem area of interest, they can all start there and defend the Constitution they swore to protect. Its very convenient, when in session, the worlds filthiest criminal scum are all usually located in 1 building.

Invalid Link Removed

 

[nostrum420]

Ok so lets say there is an active bank robbery, how is that handled by a social worker? Talk their way out of it then let them walk home? Im trying to sound slightly funny, but its a legitimate question.

How do you prevent crime before it happens? Yeah, I know more equal education and better opportunities and guidance support in poor communities equals overall less crime in the future, but your not going to prevent bad people from doing bad things so how is this addressed without policing." What if there is a chronic old lady mugger on the streets, how to do solve this issue without proper old fashioned police work?

Im hoping your as confused as I am, lol

Here are some answers for you.

Invalid Link Removed

 

[ax1]

Like Aleksander said, there would still be cops for bank robberies but they're gonna take some of the cop money and put it into social workers for non-violent issues like mental health problems etc that we agree the police are not qualified to handle and shouldn't be expected to.

Like medical clinics for people with issues with drugs, as after all its a medical condition, not a criminal condition.

 

[ax1]

Here are some answers for you.

Invalid Link Removed

I agree with alot of what that guy says, it just that the message I was getting was full defundment and abolishment. Shrinking the foothold of policing and allocting funds to more necessary services is something Ive supported most of my life. This to me is just basic police reform, I think maybe I need to look beyond the definition these days. I hear blanket statements of de-fund and abolish it doesnt wound right.

Personally Id lean towards defunding and significantly rolling taxes back on the taypayer rather than finding other ways to grow monster government as that is an issue that helps address poverty and oppression. Id stick to the most basic needs if anything.

 

[Aleksandar37]

When the Eric Garner thing happened I proposed abolishing the income tax and ending the war on drugs. Thats what that was all about, he was selling Lucy cigarettes on the street and the government doesn't like it when you take a cut of the dirty cheese and not hand some back over.

I dont hear too much talk on laws that have police on the street doing government's hit-man work in the first place, and Id bet most of these people will continue to vote for government that props up these policies....in many cases in the name of voting for lesser of evils.

I agree bad cops need to **** off and that includes cops of all races and colors.

So you're proposing that when Saudi Arabia attacked us on 9/11, we should attack Iraq? No more of this roundabout crap. Burn it down and start over.

 

[ax1]

So you're proposing that when Saudi Arabia attacked us on 9/11, we should attack Iraq? No more of this roundabout crap. Burn it down and start over.

I think we should start over, and it needs to start from the top and clearing out all big government oppressive Demicans and Republicrats that have propped up all these policing policies for decades down to the police departments themselves and resort back to the US Constitution.

Im down with starting over, patching up cancer doesnt solve crap. Unfortunately I think Im in the minority in this country with really solving the issues.

 

[nostrum420]

I agree with alot of what that guy says, it just that the message I was getting was full defundment and abolishment. Shrinking the foothold of policing and allocting funds to more necessary services is something Ive supported most of my life. This to me is just basic police reform, I think maybe I need to look beyond the definition these days. I hear blanket statements of de-fund and abolish it doesnt wound right.

Personally Id lean towards defunding and significantly rolling taxes back on the taypayer rather than finding other ways to grow monster government as that is an issue that helps address poverty and oppression. Id stick to the most basic needs if anything.

Well, the left is terrible at branding. It's something I argue with others on the left about A LOT.

 

[ax1]

Well, the left is terrible at branding. It's something I argue with others on the left about A LOT.

Wow I made some funny spelling errors in that last post lol! The way I was allocting my wording didn’t wound right.

 

[Jiigzz]

So who here straight out supports of de-funding and abolishing the police out of their communities? What are you replacing that with, if anything?

I may be the smallest government guy here outside of the occasional anarchist that has stopped in the past, but to me this just seems naive and a load of reactionary lunacy.

I worked in police, and US policing has always boggled my mind. they police through force and fear and not through speaking to people (I know not all the time, but watch how many times they draw a gun to force compliance). In my training, we used US policing as examples of what NOT to do lol.

If cops are constantly pointing guns at you, that's a problem. It seems like that is the norm, rather than the exception. Officers in NZ dont carry firearms on their person, and instead rely on non-lethal measures like tasers and pepper spray IF verbal compliance doesnt work. They don't default to pulling out their tasers or pepper spray - rather only use if their is an imminent threat to their safety.

So in my opinion, policing doesnt need defunding or abolishing, but a complete overhaul of tactics that focus on verbal compliance as opposed to policing by force. I got MUCH greater compliance from those I was human toward than from those I came down on hard.

I get that there are people who are dangerous and can't be reasoned with. But that is not the norm. However if you treat everyone like they are violent and dangerous, a lot of people will push back.

Watch an episode or 2 of Police 10-7 and compare it to Cops or something and you'll see what I mean.

 

[Jiigzz]

As an example:

Trust and confidence in Police nationally remains high and stable this year at 77%, unchanged from 2015/16. This reflects respondents who said they have full or quite a lot of confidence in Police,” Mr Evans says.

Police release results from the latest Citizens’ Satisfaction Survey

The results from the latest Citizens’ Satisfaction Survey are now available on the Police national website.

www.police.govt.nz