Donald Trump running for president

ax1 said:
What your doing is picking and choosing what "crisis" people should be concerned about and ramming it down people's throats.

My choice will save more lives and INSTANTLY both short term and long term. We are talking the lives of 4,000 Americans a month that can be just as easily stopped as easy as it is to force people to stay home because of a bad cold.
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No, I am not.

The “crisis” of car crashes will NOT grow at an exponential rate if left unchecked. COVID would.

Furthermore, every day we learn more about how to treat this virus, and drugs to treat it are being tested as we speak. There is no groundbreaking new treatment for car crashes coming soon.

It’s like talking to a wall, except a wall doesn’t give me back more BS.
 
Ge
muscleupcrohn said:
Say that the economic impact from extended quarantine isn’t worth it... at least you have an argument there. But this “cAr CrAsHes” BS is just that, BS.
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But really Ive said this and say it again, Im all for throwing our tax dollars at the medical community to both solve bed/respirator issues, funding a proper vaccine and treatment, giving better support to first responders and making sure they no longer need to stay in tents, etc......

I never meant to belittle the virus as a medical issue. My concern here is they (not the doctors) are using PRS (Problem Reaction Solution) as a power and money grab.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
No, I am not.

The “crisis” of car crashes will NOT grow at an exponential rate if left unchecked. COVID would.

Furthermore, every day we learn more about how to treat this virus, and drugs to treat it are being tested as we speak. There is no groundbreaking new treatment for car crashes coming soon.

It’s like talking to a wall, except a wall doesn’t give me back more BS.
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It grew at one point, and the curve flattened because regulations came into play and now its consistent which can be easily resolved with no drive orders. We are talking of 10s of thousands of lives a year including innocent pedestrians who cant even drive.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
The “crisis” of car crashes will NOT grow at an exponential rate if left unchecked. COVID would.
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And almost everybody who gets it will be fine, and eventually it will flatten out and drop as herd immunity comes into play.
 
thebigt said:
I am waiting for you to explain why the medical community not recommending wearing masks 3 weeks ago is trumps fault?
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Or blame the Governors, or blame the County Executives, Mayors, Dr. Oz RRROOFFFLLLLL!!!!!
 
ax1 said:
It grew at one point, and the curve flattened because regulations came into play and now its consistent which can be easily resolved with no drive orders.
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Holy hell are you dense... “it grew at one point” doesn’t indicate exponential growth. Nice try.

And, the HUGE point you seem to be missing is this:

-if we ban driving, it has to be PERMANENT. The day we allow driving as normal, crashes go back to what they were the day we enacted the ban; we aren’t coming up with new ways to prevent or treat car crashes in the near future, are we?

-with COVID, if we limit travel until we have better treatments, when we reopen fully, the death rate will be LOWER than it was the day before we enacted restrictions. We are learning more about the virus every day, and are testing new drugs/treatments was we speak.
 
ax1 said:
And almost everybody who gets it will be fine, and eventually it will flatten out and drop as herd immunity comes into play.
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Herd immunity wouldn’t come into play with COVID until like ~60% of the population gets it IIRC. At 2% death rate, that’s ~4 MILLION dead people. At 0.2% it’s still ~400,000 dead. No big deal, right?

Edit: I see a range of as low as 40% or as high as 80-95% for herd immunity. So 60% is the middle between 40 and 80. But even at 40%, were looking at 2.6 MILLION deaths at 2%, or 260,000 at 0.2%.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Holy hell are you dense... “it grew at one point” doesn’t indicate exponential growth. Nice try.

And, the HUGE point you seem to be missing is this:

-if we ban driving, it has to be PERMANENT. The day we allow driving as normal, crashes go back to what they were the day we enacted the ban; we aren’t coming up with new ways to prevent or treat car crashes in the near future, are we?

-with COVID, if we limit travel until we have better treatments, when we reopen fully, the death rate will be LOWER than it was the day before we enacted restrictions. We are learning more about the virus every day, and are testing new drugs/treatments was we speak.
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We have stay at home orders until you have better treatments (the regulations) and changed all the speed limit posts to 10mph, increase traffic enforcement using tech and AI and problem solved for the most part. At least we can reduce it from "crisis" status if you compare the death rate to Covid.

Then as we learn more about implementing AI technology every day, and are testing new forms of safety features as we speak we can save 100s of thousands of people over the next few years.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Herd immunity wouldn’t come into play with COVID until like ~60% of the population gets it IIRC. At 2% death rate, that’s ~4 MILLION dead people. At 0.2% it’s still ~400,000 dead. No big deal, right?
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2% my azz.
 
ax1 said:
We have stay at home orders until you have better treatments (the regulations) and changed all the speed limit posts to 10mph, increase traffic enforcement using tech and AI and problem solved for the most part. At least we can reduce it from "crisis" status if you compare the death rate to Covid.

Then as we learn more about implementing AI technology every day, and are testing new forms of safety features as we speak we can save 100s of thousands of people over the next few years.
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Dude, I have a degree in civil engineering; I work with roadway related things every day. “Tech and AI” are YEARS, at the least, away from being implemented on a scale sufficient enough to drastically reduce car crashes. And highway speeds are >60, limiting them to 10 would literally destroy trucks and transit; worse than it is now, since at least trucks can drive now. You just talk without any level of critical thinking...

Neither of us are experts on the economy or infectious diseases, but I actually have a fair bit of knowledge regarding roadway safety, and you’re talking out your ass...
 
ax1 said:
Or blame the Governors, or blame the County Executives, Mayors, Dr. Oz RRROOFFFLLLLL!!!!!
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the politicians were following the advice of medical 'professionals'...who over and over repeated that wearing of masks was unnecessary... and now they are recommending wearing of masks-why now and not then?
 
muscleupcrohn said:
I also gave rates at 0.2%. Is reading that hard for you?
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Keyboard...

As it is there are 690 "confirmed" cases and 35k deceased.

If you do the math thats 0.05% death rate, it is almost impossible to die from it.

Then add in an estimate of people 10s perhaps 100s of thousands who have it but never tested or confirmed I would bet it drops to 0.009% or lower.

Im more concerned with a helicopter dropping out of the sky and landing on me or getting a spider sting.

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But even if it is as high as .2% its still almost impossible to die from it statistically, and this can be dealt with by both funding the medical community and isolating those at more risk such as nursing homes.

Keep watching the Tube bro.
 
ax1 said:
Keyboard...

As it is there are 690 "confirmed" cases and 35k deceased.

If you do the math thats 0.05% death rate, it is almost impossible to die from it.

Then add in an estimate of people who have it but never tested or confirmed I would bet it drops to 0.009%.

Im more concerned with a helicopter dropping out of the sky and landing on me or getting a spider sting.

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But even if it is as high as .2% its still almost impossible to die from it statistically, and this can be dealt with by both funding the medical community and isolating those at more risk such as nursing homes.

Keep watching the Tube bro.
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35,000 out of 690,000 is 5% you absolute bellend...

Christ, you are a moron. 0.05 is 5%, not 0.05%. 0.05% is actually 0.0005.
 
thebigt said:
the politicians were following the advice of medical 'professionals'...who over and over repeated that wearing of masks was unnecessary... and now they are recommending wearing of masks-why now and not then?
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This whole thing is nothing but a shytshow. And I do recall myself the medical community saying you shouldnt wear a mask and to save it for the medical processionals.

Personally, I think they are right being that people both dont wear them properly if they got real masks, and touching it can expose them even more.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
35,000 out of 690,000 is 5% you absolute bellend...
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I think I did the division backwards lol

Thats against confirmed cases. What I understand is the CDC would always make the death rate for the regular flu to both confirmed and estimated guess so it not going to comes out nearly as bad as 5%.
 
Trump Lied, more people died. Well, he played a lot of golf... not much else besides holding rallies.

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ax1 said:
I think I did the division backwards lol

Thats against confirmed cases. What I understand is the CDC would always make the death rate to both confirmed and estimated guess so it not going to comes out nearly as bad as 5%.
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No, you forgot to multiply by 100 to go from decimal to percent. 5% reported is high, agreed, because lots of people don’t get tested and don’t get included in the denominator. So even if we assume 10x more people have it than is reported, it’s 0.5%. Cut that in half again and it’s 0.25%. Cut a little more off and it’s 0.2%, which is what I also gave as a number. It’s likely not lower than that.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
No, you forgot to multiply by 100 to go from decimal to percent. 5% reported is high, agreed, because lots of people don’t get tested and don’t get included in the denominator. So even if we assume 10x more people have it than is reported, it’s 0.5%. Cut that in half again and it’s 0.25%. Cut a little more off and it’s 0.2%, which is what I also gave as a number. It’s likely not lower than that.
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Good, 0.2% is rather small but lets get that down to 0.0%.
 
ax1 said:
This whole thing is nothing but a shytshow. And I do recall myself the medical community saying you shouldnt wear a mask and to save it for the medical processionals.

Personally, I think they are right being that people both dont wear them properly if they got real masks, and touching it can expose them even more.
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you ever see the sign at doctors office or hospital that says..'if you have cough or sneezing please wear mask'...the signs and masks have been there for around a decade now. they are not there to protect the person with the cough or sneeze!!!!

they are there to prevent infection to those NOT infected....
 
So... like I stated, we need a lot more tests. Where are they? Trump?
NATIONAL. Not leave it up to the states. A coordinated effort.

BTW: The mortality rate now in the USA is 5.3%

“I wish someone had told me there was a problem with a pandemic”
-Trump 4/17/20
 
justhere4comm said:
So... like I stated, we need a lot more tests. Where are they? Trump?
NATIONAL. Not leave it up to the states. A coordinated effort.

BTW: The mortality rate now in the USA is 5.3%
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lol...you still haven't explained how the medical community saying wearing masks is not necessary is trumps fault...I wonder how many lives would have been saved if they would have recommended wearing of masks at least 3 weeks ago?
 
ax1 said:
This whole thing is nothing but a shytshow. And I do recall myself the medical community saying you shouldnt wear a mask and to save it for the medical processionals.

Personally, I think they are right being that people both dont wear them properly if they got real masks, and touching it can expose them even more.
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The "medical community" was worried about having supplies to do their job and still are. That messaging has not changed as you're clumping all kinds of masks together here. Doctors are not now saying to go and wear N95s or surgical masks, they're saying if you want to wear a cloth mask, then do so as people start to end social distancing. In the end, social distancing is still the best bet.

As for what has changed; what we know about the virus has changed and continues to change.
 
justhere4comm said:
So... like I stated, we need a lot more tests. Where are they? Trump?
NATIONAL. Not leave it up to the states. A coordinated effort.

BTW: The mortality rate now in the USA is 5.3%

“I wish someone had told me there was a problem with a pandemic”
-Trump 4/17/20
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dr.fauci on feb 29....the risk is low, you don't need to change anything you are doing.
 
thebigt said:
dr.fauci on feb 29....the risk is low, you don't need to change anything you are doing.
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What was China saying at the time of 2/29? The medical community’s recommendations can only be as good as the data theyre being provided with.
 
jswain34 said:
What was China saying at the time of 2/29? The medical communities recommendations can only be as good as the data theyre being provided with.
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exactly my point. china's deception/misinformation put the world behind the 8 ball, not just trump.
 
thebigt said:
exactly my point. china's deception/misinformation put the world behind the 8 ball, not just trump.
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Then stick to blaming china and get off your “medical community” soapbox if thats the point youre trying to make.
 
jswain34 said:
Then stick to blaming china and get off your “medical community” soapbox if thats the point youre trying to make.
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hell no...3 weeks ago they were still saying masks were not necessary, they knew better by then, or should have.
 
jswain34 said:
“I dont do links”
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Well he doesn't do science or medical data either, so he wouldn't have been wearing a mask unless Trump was selling them with MAGA on the front. He wants to keep getting digs in on health care workers and researchers when it's those attacks that got us to this place of not being able to handle a virus like this. Instead of focusing on the actual people dying, it's the what ifs and theoretical deaths.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
Then show who it is that you consider the medical community saying that 3 weeks ago.
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When it comes to "specifically masks" and what the medical community was what I witnessed watching mainstream media and various select doctos being on for discussion. It went from no masks at all wont help, to a topic of discussion to just go ahead wear a pantyhose on your head for all we care, lol not like that but thats how it seemed to me.

I do know when it comes to the medical community your naturally going to here different things from different people and the media is going to usually have things lean one way or another, whatever they want.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
Well he doesn't do science or medical data either, so he wouldn't have been wearing a mask unless Trump was selling them with MAGA on the front. He wants to keep getting digs in on health care workers and researchers when it's those attacks that got us to this place of not being able to handle a virus like this. Instead of focusing on the actual people dying, it's the what ifs and theoretical deaths.
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Fantastic point. BigT, Im not trying to talk shît but this is 100% the truth. If the medical community was pushing masks and Trump said otherwise and everyone followed Trump’s lead youd be sitting here still finding a way to blame someone other than Trump. You seem literally incapable of admitting that Trump can do any wrong simply out of your love for the Republican Party, or maybe its because your hatred for the Democratic Party. You dont care about anything other than trying to make the Republican Party appear “better” than the Democratic Party. At least thats how it seems to me.
 
If you:

- End the pandemic team
- Cut funding to the CDC
- Give away 18 tons PPE to China
- Ignore every warning about the coming crisis while golfing

Then you don't get to complain and blame the President before you.
 
ax1 said:
When it comes to "specifically masks" and what the medical community was what I witnessed watching mainstream media and various select doctos being on for discussion. It went from no masks at all wont help, to a topic of discussion to just go ahead wear a pantyhose on your head for all we care, lol not like that but thats how it seemed to me.

I do know when it comes to the medical community your naturally going to here different things from different people and the media is going to usually have things lean one way or another, whatever they want.
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This is the same discussion we've had concerning climate change: getting info from the media vs the actual researchers. The media and whatever random doctor they have on do not represent the medical community as a whole, particularly if those doctors don't seem to actually treat patients and just spend all of their time on talk shows and news programs. For something like the public wearing masks, this needs to be a coordinated effort with clear messages and that has not happened. The CDC doesn't have a daily news conference, the supposed task force created by the President does and that responsibility falls on them. Rather than wasting time on people getting their feelings hurt by "nasty" reporters, they need to get to the bullet points that the American people can remember and follow. As we learn more about the situation, those bullet points may change, but what doesn't help is when there isn't coordination within the team. So if the President says one thing, somebody on his task force says another, and the Surgeon General says yet another different thing, people get confused and upset.
 
jswain34 said:
Fantastic point. BigT, Im not trying to talk shît but this is 100% the truth. If the medical community was pushing masks and Trump said otherwise and everyone followed Trump’s lead youd be sitting here still finding a way to blame someone other than Trump. You seem literally incapable of admitting that Trump can do any wrong simply out of your love for the Republican Party, or maybe its because your hatred for the Democratic Party. You dont care about anything other than trying to make the Republican Party appear “better” than the Democratic Party. At least thats how it seems to me.
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At the same time people who look for the big centralized Federal Government to provide people with effective and efficient services need to point the finger at themselves because this is what the country as a whole collaborated (and that include both democraps and repulsive-cins) to allow this system of extreme bureaucracy and corruption to exist in the first place.
 
I'm just going put this out there: In Austrlia, on Feb27, our federal government activated a state of emergency and isolation rules were slowly implemented from there, starting with travel restrictions then shutdown of non-essential business within the following 2 weeks. On our TVs we were watching as your government was still denying the impact that COVID would have on your medical system, and as a nation we were somewhat divided over how to react. Today, there is very little of that division, and even many small businesses who have had to shut their doors are behind the isolation strategy.

To be fair, I'm pretty sure our government has also injected more money (per capita) into our economy and spent it far more wisely (refusing to bail out large companies, and the "Jobkeeper" payment plan whereby employers can claim $1500 per fortnight to pay employees rather than firing them). The other great administrative difference is, state and federal governments have acted in unison, and there has been no opposition to welfare bills so that legislation has been quickly enacted and inter-state travel bans coordinated. Of course, we are also an island nation so controlling our borders is much easier.
 
jswain34 said:
Fantastic point. BigT, Im not trying to talk shît but this is 100% the truth. If the medical community was pushing masks and Trump said otherwise and everyone followed Trump’s lead youd be sitting here still finding a way to blame someone other than Trump. You seem literally incapable of admitting that Trump can do any wrong simply out of your love for the Republican Party, or maybe its because your hatred for the Democratic Party. You dont care about anything other than trying to make the Republican Party appear “better” than the Democratic Party. At least thats how it seems to me.
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I am really pissed that the medical professionals have known for a long time that wearing masks prevents spread of disease-why the f*ck were they so late in recommending masks?

to be frank I haven't be pleased with trump on a lot of things lately, but that does not excuse the late call for masks on part of virus specialists, in my honest opinion.
 
Our borders are fine as well.. Mexico was worried about us going there and getting them sick.
Somebody (TRUMP) failed in getting China to really stop coming here.

Poll: 2 in 3 Americans say Trump failed America in response to Covid-19.

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thebigt said:
I am really pissed that the medical professionals have known for a long time that wearing masks prevents spread of disease-why the f*ck were they so late in recommending masks?

to be frank I haven't be pleased with trump on a lot of things lately, but that does not excuse the late call for masks on part of virus specialists, in my honest opinion.
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An 8 year old knows that masks prevent disease. If you need a doctor to tell you this, then you're beyond hope. As data continued to come out and actual medical professionals (not the imaginary ones that you keep referring to and have yet to show evidence of) were sounding the alarm, you continued to say this was no big deal and a hoax in another thread on this very forum. So keep clutching those pearls as you reap what you have sown.
 
I rarely agree with democrats but this is one of those times...if the government prints out 2 trillion there NEEDS to be oversight on how it's spent.

I just found out that the money meant to go to small businesses is being 1st dibbed by hedge-funds and small law offices who are still profitable but qualify by keeping employees employed even though they are working online AT HOME!!! THEY ARE GETTING 1ST DIBS DUE TO COZY ARRANGEMENTS WITH BANKS....by the time the businesses who really need the money to stay afloat get application filed there is very little left.
 
thebigt said:
I rarely agree with democrats but this is one of those times...if the government prints out 2 trillion there NEEDS to be oversight on how it's spent.

I just found out that the money meant to go to small businesses is being 1st dibbed by hedge-funds and small law offices who are still profitable but qualify by keeping employees employed even though they are working online AT HOME!!! THEY ARE GETTING 1ST DIBS DUE TO COZY ARRANGEMENTS WITH BANKS....by the time the businesses who really need the money to stay afloat get application filed there is very little left.
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I dont think you need much oversight on top of what was already admitted that this was a total con job on the tax payers.
 
ax1 said:
I dont think you need much oversight on top of what was already admitted that this was a total con job on the tax payers.
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by both parties involved, including trump!!!
 
justhere4comm said:
Our borders are fine as well.. Mexico was worried about us going there and getting them sick.
Somebody (TRUMP) failed in getting China to really stop coming here.

Poll: 2 in 3 Americans say Trump failed America in response to Covid-19.

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both parties including trump have failed miserably!!!
 
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