Unanswered Alchemist's lean mass cycle (SD, Primo, Tren Hex and Var)

[Outofbody]

Just getting caught up in here. Looks like everything is going well! Tons of great info here too!

 

[Alchemist11]

Just getting caught up in here. Looks like everything is going well! Tons of great info here too!

Thanks man, read it all up

 

[SkRaw85]

Also, @Alchemist11 i am sure you could benefit from mk677 during this cycle. Other than minor gyno issues i am dumbfounded how much i eat and yet i am leaning out.

I wouldnt say it is overrated. Yes, it has sides (potentially gyno, loss of libido, lethargy) but only 2 weeks in i could see visual changes which i didnt expect.

Everybody saying holy bloat when it comes to mk but i am vascular as if i was on a severe calorie deficit. No bloat at all. And i eat a sh1t ton of carbs, i mean i increased my calories substantially since adding mk yet i aint getting fat.
It definitely isn't overrated. For a gh secretagogue to produce visual changes in 2 weeks is amazing imho.

it exceeded my expectations when it comes both to positives and negatives. More powerful compound than i believed.

I’ve found that ibutamoren is probably one of the most underrated compounds.

 

[CroLifter]

I’ve found that ibutamoren is probably one of the most underrated compounds.

Liking it a lot @ 20mg per day, although i have bumped my dose again to 25 mg in the last few days (wont go higher than this). Good sleep and fat loss so far.
Excited to stack it with cjc 1295 dac my next cycle.

Btw guys, do things like mgf or igf 1 des have any good use? Say using 100mcg of mgf immediately post workout in each delt, if getting bigger delts is the goal?

Would the effect be purely local or would some mgf leach into the system and affect other muscles too?

 

[manifesto]

I'm jealous of your lack of "bacne."

I'm only on TRT right now and dealing with it non-stop. Any tips bro?

 

[SkRaw85]

Liking it a lot @ 20mg per day, although i have bumped my dose again to 25 mg in the last few days (wont go higher than this). Good sleep and fat loss so far.
Excited to stack it with cjc 1295 dac my next cycle.

Btw guys, do things like mgf or igf 1 des have any good use? Say using 100mcg of mgf immediately post workout in each delt, if getting bigger delts is the goal?

Would the effect be purely local or would some mgf leach into the system and affect other muscles too?

Some here. 10 mg every 12 hours is quite nice

 

[CroLifter]

I'm jealous of your lack of "bacne."

I'm only on TRT right now and dealing with it non-stop. Any tips bro?

I broke out horribly on masteron. Multiple showers a day helped.

 

[Alchemist11]

I'm jealous of your lack of "bacne."

I'm only on TRT right now and dealing with it non-stop. Any tips bro?

Well, I noticed, when I started to use thd highest quality gear, I didn't get any acne or zits or anything. And I'm not even using an AI. But, I usualy use just regular soap, not shower gel. I find that to be realy good for skin.

 

[CroLifter]

You are the first person that i hear of using regular soap for showering, besides me.

I remember being too lazy to reach to the other side of the bathroom for shower gel one time years ago...and that is how me taking showers with ordinary soap has started.

 

[Alchemist11]

You are the first person that i hear of using regular soap for showering, besides me.

I remember being too lazy to reach to the other side of the bathroom for shower gel one time years ago...and that is how me taking showers with ordinary soap has started.

It dries skin and lets skin to breathe. No other chemicals in it, no parfume, etc, etc. I just tend to have red dots on my forearms in matter of minutes if I get stressed lol.

 

[Alchemist11]

Update time. As the time goes, I can't be happier with the gains and results. Strength, muscle density, hardness, everything. I'm currently at around 195-6 lbs, bf% is slowly going down, but I think I nailed it with this stack. Photos and posing is shittiest so far, but it's and honest update!

 

[CroLifter]

Damn that last pic with the pump is insane! Delts are looking real good.

Btw will be following closely when you throw in the anavar as i am kinda interested in throwing it in myself towards the end of the cycle but not yet sure.

 

[Alchemist11]

Damn that last pic with the pump is insane! Delts are looking real good.

Btw will be following closely when you throw in the anavar as i am kinda interested in throwing it in myself towards the end of the cycle but not yet sure.

Thanks man, I'll throw it in on monday I think, can't wait

 

[SkRaw85]

Pretty epic cycle man! Looking massive. That lat wingspan is legit

 

[jrock645]

I'm jealous of your lack of "bacne."

I'm only on TRT right now and dealing with it non-stop. Any tips bro?

3000mg per day each of choline and inositol, 1500mg of methionine. 500mg cinnamon 5-6x’s per day. Neutrogena acne body wash(the grapefruit stuff), and panoxyl for your face and shoulders.

 

[jrock645]

Thanks man, I'll throw it in on monday I think, can't wait

Jesus fucking christ youre looking massive!

 

[Alchemist11]

Pretty epic cycle man! Looking massive. That lat wingspan is legit

Thank you brotha, I'm pushing as hard as I can

 

[Alchemist11]

Jesus fucking christ youre looking massive!

Effort is really starting to pay off

 

[Matthersby]

Damn Alchemist. You are on another level. Congrats I’ve enjoyed watching your progress this last few years

 

[Matthersby]

Plus you’re a good dude, so that helps too.

 

[CroLifter]

Damn Alchemist. You are on another level. Congrats I’ve enjoyed watching your progress this last few years

That last pic is insane, that is total steroid look hahah. I would totally settle for that. Fuk being shredded hahah as i aint gonna compete.

Seriously @Alchemist11 when you get competition level lean and if you manage to hold on to the mass, you will be classic physique material imho.

I would personally pound high dose of primo if you are going to cut.

 

[Alchemist11]

Plus you’re a good dude, so that helps too.

Awwww man, you make my heart melt Thank you for your support all the time! Love sharing knowledge and support!

 

[Alchemist11]

That last pic is insane, that is total steroid look hahah.

Seriously @Alchemist11 when you get competition level lean and if you manage to hold on to the mass, you will be classic physique material imho.

I would personally pound high dose of primo if you are going to cut.

Thats my goal, and to try to compete in tha division

 

[CroLifter]

The more and more i research, i am starting to believe that it is individual levels of myostatin that in the end dictates how much mass we can build, even with steroids.

Hence the reason some of us are lanky. I exploded on 500 test, week 2-5 gains were outright insane, i was putting 20lbs on my close griP bench WEEKLY. And then a sudden halt. Nothing more. Nada, as if someone switched the mechanism for growth off.

I have been researching and it seems that levels of myostatin increase significantly when either testosteronr and trenbolone are administered, more with trenbolone obviously as it builds more muscle than test.

Soooooo if only we could stop the myostatin from increasing while putting on muscle fast, not even talking about decreasing baseline myostatin, just inhibiting the rise which results from muscle gain when on cycle, i believe the resukts could be much more dramatic.

there is definitely a lot of room for improvement in this area of research. Imagine if you could keep gaining like you gain first few weeks on a cycle after you havent cycled in a long time. It would be insane.

edit: makes me think (also from what i have experienced myself) whether doing short cycles (say 2 6 week cycles with some time in between opposed to one 12 weeker ) would be advantageous. I gained 90% in the first 6 weeks. We need to find out how long does it take for the myostatin to return to baseline.

 

[Alchemist11]

The more and more i research, i am starting to believe that it is individual levels of myostatin that in the end dictates how much mass we can build, even with steroids.

Hence the reason some of us are lanky. I exploded on 500 test, week 2-5 gains were outright insane, i was putting 20lbs on my close griP bench WEEKLY. And then a sudden halt. Nothing more. Nada, as if someone switched the mechanism for growth off.

I have been researching and it seems that levels of myostatin increase significantly when either testosteronr and trenbolone are administered, more with trenbolone obviously as it builds more muscle than test.

Soooooo if only we could stop the myostatin from increasing while putting on muscle fast, not even talking about decreasing baseline myostatin, just inhibiting the rise which results from muscle gain when on cycle, i believe the resukts could be much more dramatic.

there is definitely a lot of room for improvement in this area of research. Imagine if you could keep gaining like you gain first few weeks on a cycle after you havent cycled in a long time. It would be insane.

edit: makes me think (also from what i have experienced myself) whether doing short cycles (say 2 6 week cycles with some time in between opposed to one 12 weeker ) would be advantageous. I gained 90% in the first 6 weeks. We need to find out how long does it take for the myostatin to return to baseline.

It could be beneficial from one side, yes. But what with the other side? Myostatin stops body from getting too much muscle, to slow down strain on your tendons, bones and ligaments, and also straing on you cardiovasculars system and other organs. For me, that part is really serious. Can you imagine how hard for heart is to pump and work properly with above averege amound of lean muscle, and if you add to that new 20-30 lbs, I really starts to add on.
To be honest, I don't mind the tempo with what I'm gaining muscle at this moment, especialy on this relatively low doses.

 

[CroLifter]

Maybe for you if you are gaining linearly its fine, but i have a problem because i explode for the first few weeks and then it totally stops, like i literally made no gains after week 7, i just got fatter.

Tried changing up the workouts, nope, didnt help.

I am 100% positive it was myostatin. I dont believe that 500mg test suddenly wasnt enough. It is as if the switch for muscle growth was turned off.

And as far as gaining "too much" muscle well the good thing is that you could get away with much less gear and still get the results desired.
And afaik heart has lesser expression of myostatin so ot woukd grow less, but it woukd still grow to support muscle mass.

But lets be real here, people will use more and more gear to get to where they want to be. Imagine if you could do it with as i said, much less. Maybe then we could argue that the decreased need to use higher dosages would counter the bad sides of decreased myostatin.



The problem is that afaik most if not all follistatin that you can buy from rc sites is 100% bunk.

for joints you can use some deca it should help.

And turning off the myostatin prolly aint gonna happen, i wasnt thinking of that, just keeping it at baseline and preventin it from increasing while on a cycle.

yk11 supposedly increases follistatin expression but tbh idk to what extent, and whether it woukd be beneficial as an add on to AAS cycle.

Creatine is also a slight myostatin inhbitor, 7 vs 17% decrease exercise only vs exercise + creatine.

but as you can see, myostatin increase is so significant that neither of those is going to make a substantial impact. Still, they may help a little.

Testosterone and trenbolone enanthate increase mature myostatin protein expression despite increasing skeletal muscle hypertrophy and satellite cell number in rodent muscle - PubMed

The androgen-induced alterations in adult rodent skeletal muscle fibre cross-sectional area (fCSA), satellite cell content and myostatin (Mstn) were examined in 10-month-old Fisher 344 rats (n = 41) assigned to Sham surgery, orchiectomy (ORX), ORX + testosterone (TEST; 7.0 mg week^-1 )...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Alchemist11]

Yes, but then again, this sport is just simply not for everyone. Genetics do play huge role in here. I think it's pointless to go on that detailed level, just to try to get more gains, with ALREADY taking AAS and other PED's. We all have to be honest with ourselvs, that's the only way to progress and improve. And above all, you don't need massive amounts of muscle to look good, you just have to be smart, and sculpt what you have. Bodybuilding is all about illusion, presenting your body in best way possible, even if you have some lagging bodyparts. So, in conclusion, I wouldn't spend that much time on things like that, just enjoy the process and have fun, bc in the end of the day, things and time will pass, and nothing really matters, so, relax and have fun.

 

[CroLifter]

just enjoy the process and have fun, bc in the end of the day, things and time will pass, and nothing really matters, so, relax and have fun.

Cant argue with that.

It is just me being me.

Me see a mechanism which upregulates preventing me from making moar gainzz. Me want to inhibit that mechanism .

Me simple guy.

 

[Alchemist11]

I have to say, I'm really happy with my back progress. Everything is coming along nicely. My biceps looks rearted when I pose, bc they're still pumped from workout, but overall I'm happy with this cycle.

 

[manifesto]

Looking good brother...keep it up. One day at a time

 

[Alchemist11]

Looking good brother...keep it up. One day at a time

Thanks man, have you started with your cycle?

 

[manifesto]

Not yet..

I have some TRT bloodwork coming up for the doc. I'm looking at starting around January.

It's been hard to show the restraint...want to start right now haha

 

[roidsarebad]

Damn dude, that’s great progress!

 

[Alchemist11]

Not yet..

I have some TRT bloodwork coming up for the doc. I'm looking at starting around January.

It's been hard to show the restraint...want to start right now haha

Soon brotha, waiting will pay off with glorious gains lol

 

[Alchemist11]

Damn dude, that’s great progress!

Thanks man, I appreciate it

 

[manifesto]

I'll be keeping it simple bro...I havent ran anything in years

Prob Test Cypionate (300 mg)
Pheraplex (20-30mg)

 

[Alchemist11]

I'll be keeping it simple bro...I havent ran anything in years

Prob Test Cypionate (300 mg)
Pheraplex (20-30mg)

Man, I tried to find Pheraplex for a long time now, but here is non existent. I'm sure you'll enjoy that

 

[CroLifter]

Btw @Alchemist11 you are not using an AI, right?

 

[Alchemist11]

Btw @Alchemist11 you are not using an AI, right?

Nope. Just Nolvadex from time to time

 

[CroLifter]

Nope. Just Nolvadex from time to time

Yep, ai's are not to be abused. Tbh if i had done lasting damage to my body during last cycle then it is likely from abuse of ai's.

Next cycle i am ditching aromasin and going with proviron. Both fuk with lipids so why not at least use something that doesnt decrease igf 1.

 

[manifesto]

How much test you on right now @Alchemist11?

 

[Alchemist11]

How much test you on right now @Alchemist11?

375-500 mg

 

[manifesto]

Injecting twice per week?

 

[Alchemist11]

Injecting twice per week?

Yes

 

[Cmseabee24]

Amazing progress man. I just picked up a few tren hex vials for my next run want to see how it differs from a and e. I personally like the long esters and I’ve heard the gains per mg compared to a and e are night and day. Plus I’ve heard sides are almost non existent but only one way to find out.

 

[Alchemist11]

Amazing progress man. I just picked up a few tren hex vials for my next run want to see how it differs from a and e. I personally like the long esters and I’ve heard the gains per mg compared to a and e are night and day. Plus I’ve heard sides are almost non existent but only one way to find out.

Thanks man, you'll love it. At what dosage will you take it? The main reason why I decided to try Tren Hex is my concern with temper, and yet, I'm perfectly fine on it. It's verry clean, supposedly Hex ester is specialy made for humans, so it's milder in terms of sides.

 

[CroLifter]

I am pretty sure tren a, e and hex powders are all made in china, so the only thing that may make hex more user-friendly is slower speed of release, although i dont see it being much different from e. You can always dose the shorter ester more frequently.

Hex has the most ester mg per mg but tbh most people use tons of tren, so actually having less sides and sleeping better, and having less issues with digestion ie being able to down more food is imho what causes the hex to have a reputation of more gains per mg's of compound used.

I mean if you cant eat and you cant sleep, you wont grow.

The only other way of acquiring tren, other than using esentially chinese powders is to convert finaplix cartridges (ace), unless another form of vet grade tren is out there that i am not aware of.

And yes, tren hex was a pharmaceutical drug back in the day (parabolan). I believe it was intended to be used by aids patients to counter muscle wasting.

 

[manifesto]

@Alchemist11 , do you do cardio?

I know you play volleyball, which definitely is legit cardio. Just wondering what else you do...

I feel like keeping the cardio up, keeps water retention down, and helps avoid too much AI

 

[manifesto]

I run like 15 miles a week, and mix in some HIIT stuff, on top of the hypertrophy lifts

 

[Alchemist11]

I am pretty sure tren a, e and hex powders are all made in china, so the only thing that may make hex more user-friendly is slower speed of release, although i dont see it being much different from e. You can always dose the shorter ester more frequently.

Hex has the most ester mg per mg but tbh most people use tons of tren, so actually having less sides and sleeping better, and having less issues with digestion ie being able to down more food is imho what causes the hex to have a reputation of more gains per mg's of compound used.

I mean if you cant eat and you cant sleep, you wont grow.

The only other way of acquiring tren, other than using esentially chinese powders is to convert finaplix cartridges (ace), unless another form of vet grade tren is out there that i am not aware of.

And yes, tren hex was a pharmaceutical drug back in the day (parabolan). I believe it was intended to be used by aids patients to counter muscle wasting.

Yes, I adressed all of that info im my previous cycle log, and that slow release is why I decided to go with hex. There's a good reason why hex ester is much more expensive than enanthate. And honestly, I see much more people having problems with enanthate