A week into cold turkey kratom withdrawals

[Steeleydan]

Im thinking of giving kanna a try soon. Gonna research more on reddit and find a good vendor. I like the reddit community and they seem to have good sources for various things up there

 

[Matthersby]

I got a Fijian Waka right now called Loa Waka. It’s pretty strong, but balanced. It’s got a nice cerebral effect, definitely relaxing, but not too heavy on the body. I think it’s drinkable during the daytime if you don’t make a super potent batch.

I’d like to point out that kava requires a lot of experimenting with the water to kava ratio. With the stuff I’ve been drinking lately I’ve be been using 5-6 tablespoons of kava for about 16-20 fluid oz of water. I’ll drink that and see how I feel and then often I’ll make a second bowl by reusing the same kava I made the first bowl with. You won’t get all the kavalactones (the alkaloids that create the effect) out of the strainer the first time. I’ll sometime use the same kava for three separate bowls before I empty out the strainer.

Also, kava is not like kratom in terms of how it’ll effect you the first time. The majority of kratom users get a good sense of the drug the first time they try it. But with kava you need to learn what its doing and how to appreciate it. Some people claim it actually has a reverse tolerance, so you’ll feel the effects even more as you become a more seasoned kava drinker. If you don’t get anything out of it the first time then increase the dose. If you make a really strong batch and drink it fast then you’ll basically be drunk from it, which is unpleasant. But you’ll learn from that experience.

I’m trying to read through all this. What’s a good dose for Kava for a 230lb guy? I buy Yogi Tea and triple dose it but i fear it’s nowhere near enough to get real effects.

 

[Ricky10]

Chaos and Pain Bacchus has a solid dose of Kanna. The formula in general is quite effective for anxiety, relaxation, along with some good feels.

Invalid Link Removed

 

[YoungThor]

Hasnt kava been found to cause liver damage with continued use? I read up on this years ago trying to find an alternative and that kept popping up in my reading.

Those studies have since been debunked. It’s safe.

 

[YoungThor]

That’s so awesome man. You’re description is music to my ear. The stuff seems like it can be expensive. I’m 6’4” 260lbs, how many therapeutic doses do you think a guy my size would get out of the pound bag?

It’s really hard to say. I know body size matters when using most things but I’m not sure if that’s the case with kava. The strength of the kava could really effect how much you use in a sitting. I just used a half pound of some weak Somoan kava, that I was pretty disappointed with, in about six days. A stronger kava could’ve lasted double or triple that amount of time. I think if you use a pound of decent quality kava it could last you two weeks or it could last you several. I guess you’ll see how fast you go through it when you get it. It can be expensive if you’re drinking it all the time.

 

[YoungThor]

I’m trying to read through all this. What’s a good dose for Kava for a 230lb guy? I buy Yogi Tea and triple dose it but i fear it’s nowhere near enough to get real effects.

I tried the yoga tea method but they don’t put anywhere near enough in there to get an effect. And you don’t want your kava to touch boiling water. It degrades the kava and takes away from the effect. You want to use warm water, but cold will work as well.

If you use some kava root and make a bowl then I’d suggest using around 4 tablespoons and then adjust the dose from there. I’m usually in the range of 200 lbs and i like to use around 6 tablespoons. I’d probably use even more but that can get expensive.

I just watched some reviews the Kavasseur did on some of Bula Kava House’s stuff. He was saying it’s insanely strong. I’m gonna order from them next and hopefully I’ll be able to get the feeling I want from only 2-3 tablespoons.

 

[YoungThor]

Also, you can increase the effects by drinking it faster but that’s a big risk. The other day I used 6 or 7 tablespoons in about 16 oz of water and then chugged it all at once. It hit me like a f*cking brick. My vision was kinda wobbly, my balance was off, I got sluggish, my head felt kinda stoned and a little dizzy. I just had to lay down for about two hours until the intensity of the effects started to dwindle. So be warned! You may not feel any effects at all and then you’ll want to go really hard one session and WHAM!

 

[THOR 70]

Hasnt kava been found to cause liver damage with continued use? I read up on this years ago trying to find an alternative and that kept popping up in my reading.

I’ve read this too but people also say it’s false. I’d be surprised if it’s worse alcohol. I might do a test and see if it rises liver levels

 

[bigbeaph]

Im thinking of giving kanna a try soon. Gonna research more on reddit and find a good vendor. I like the reddit community and they seem to have good sources for various things up there

I used to buy these little drinks called "bliss shot" that was basically just kanna. Awesome stuff....been looking at that chaos and pain product - it looks great. Just hard to part with enough cash for an entire bottle for a test...their stuff can be a bit expensive. Maybe that's because it's a higher quality ingredient though????

 

[Steeleydan]

I used to buy these little drinks called "bliss shot" that was basically just kanna. Awesome stuff....been looking at that chaos and pain product - it looks great. Just hard to part with enough cash for an entire bottle for a test...their stuff can be a bit expensive. Maybe that's because it's a higher quality ingredient though????

Yeah i gotta read on how to dose. Im wanting to find like a raw kanna vendor but i suppose i could try something pre formulated and follow instructions on the bottle(unless its "not for human consumption")

Seems like people like the stuff, though not quite as popular as kratom and kava.

 

[Steeleydan]

I guess kratom exposed me to the world of these natural mood enhancing herbs lol. Before Kratom i assumed these herbs were just like everything else and didnt actually do anything. It seems these three actually have decent mood enhancement. (Kratom being the strongest, i would assume, havrnt tried kava and kanna yet)

 

[YoungThor]

I haven’t even heard of kanna. I thought that was a spelling error at first. I gotta look that up.

 

[Steeleydan]

Liftmode carries it in multiple sizes. I think its a powdered extract which comes with a measuring scoop so i might give that one a try. The measurement is what ive been looking for as i dont wanna buy raw kanna and just start putting powder in my mouth until i feel something, im thinking its something people do in 100mg-150mg a dose. I need to double check that though(for extracts).

Looks like kanna basically does something wih serotonin causing a calming, happy, and energetic mood lift of some sort. Which doesnt really tell me exactly how thats gonna feel lol so i guess ill just have to try. I dont think it has too much abuse potential as opposed to kratom, sounds similar to kava

 

[Ricky10]

I used to buy these little drinks called "bliss shot" that was basically just kanna. Awesome stuff....been looking at that chaos and pain product - it looks great. Just hard to part with enough cash for an entire bottle for a test...their stuff can be a bit expensive. Maybe that's because it's a higher quality ingredient though????

C&P claims they use a 2:1 Kanna extract in Bacchus, and 1g per 3 pills is generously dosed. I personally dose it one pill at a time, and never more than two per day. 1 bottle has lasted me for months and I just ordered another with the current sale of 25% off...

Now is a good time to try it with code “Kraken25” directly from their website..

I am not a rep

 

[Matthersby]

I tried the yoga tea method but they don’t put anywhere near enough in there to get an effect. And you don’t want your kava to touch boiling water. It degrades the kava and takes away from the effect. You want to use warm water, but cold will work as well.

If you use some kava root and make a bowl then I’d suggest using around 4 tablespoons and then adjust the dose from there. I’m usually in the range of 200 lbs and i like to use around 6 tablespoons. I’d probably use even more but that can get expensive.

I just watched some reviews the Kavasseur did on some of Bula Kava House’s stuff. He was saying it’s insanely strong. I’m gonna order from them next and hopefully I’ll be able to get the feeling I want from only 2-3 tablespoons.

Thanks a ton bro. Good insight here. I’ll give it a whirl.

 

[bigbeaph]

C&P claims they use a 2:1 Kanna extract in Bacchus, and 1g per 3 pills is generously dosed. I personally dose it one pill at a time, and never more than two per day. 1 bottle has lasted me for months and I just ordered another with the current sale of 25% off...

Now is a good time to try it with code “Kraken25” directly from their website..

I am not a rep

So what does it do for you Ricky?

 

[Matthersby]

I tried the yoga tea method but they don’t put anywhere near enough in there to get an effect. And you don’t want your kava to touch boiling water. It degrades the kava and takes away from the effect. You want to use warm water, but cold will work as well.

If you use some kava root and make a bowl then I’d suggest using around 4 tablespoons and then adjust the dose from there. I’m usually in the range of 200 lbs and i like to use around 6 tablespoons. I’d probably use even more but that can get expensive.

I just watched some reviews the Kavasseur did on some of Bula Kava House’s stuff. He was saying it’s insanely strong. I’m gonna order from them next and hopefully I’ll be able to get the feeling I want from only 2-3 tablespoons.

Thanks a ton bro. Good insight here. I’ll give it a whirl.

 

[Ricky10]

So what does it do for you Ricky?

It does a nice job of chilling me out and acutely relieves social and general anxiety- generally puts me in more of a content/happy mood. It’s not on the level of Kratom or Vicaine, but it definitely makes an impact..

For me, anxiety relief is on par or better with Kanna, or Bacchus in this case. It’s not the energizing or euphoric supplement that Kratom can be though..

 

[YoungThor]

It does a nice job of chilling me out and acutely relieves social and general anxiety- generally puts me in more of a content/happy mood. It’s not on the level of Kratom or Vicaine, but it definitely makes an impact..

For me, anxiety relief is on par or better with Kanna, or Bacchus in this case. It’s not the energizing or euphoric supplement that Kratom can be though..

Damn, now I just had to look up tianeptine (vicain) and that stuff seems dangerous to an addict like me. I’m super curious about it but I’ll have to let it go. Still, an antidepressant that works on the opiate receptors is a little unusual, but technically tramadol is similar in ways. Would anyone who’s tried this like to elaborate on what kind of effect it produces? How does it compare to kratom? I’m not going to order any but I still am curious about what this stuff is.

 

[THOR 70]

Damn, now I just had to look up tianeptine (vicain) and that stuff seems dangerous to an addict like me. I’m super curious about it but I’ll have to let it go. Still, an antidepressant that works on the opiate receptors is a little unusual, but technically tramadol is similar in ways. Would anyone who’s tried this like to elaborate on what kind of effect it produces? How does it compare to kratom? I’m not going to order any but I still am curious about what this stuff is.

I would just forget about it . Playing with fire

 

[YoungThor]

I would just forget about it . Playing with fire

Yeah, I won’t try and it. Anything that has an opiate effect is a no no for me.

 

[bigbeaph]

Yeah, I won’t try and it. Anything that has an opiate effect is a no no for me.

I used it for a few months just a couple times a week and then fell down the rabbit hole....about 7 months of daily use. A lot like opiates but....better...in some ways lol. But for an addict it's nothing good. I've been done with it since about August

 

[Steeleydan]

Yeah, I won’t try and it. Anything that has an opiate effect is a no no for me.

I recently bought some a week ago when i was looking for something stronger than kratom lol. Havent used it yet for that reason as i have since realized i need to chill on both that anf kratom. Apparently its a lot stronger and more addictive

Kratom was our biggest hope for something opiate-like that doesnt cause ad many problems lol

 

[bigbeaph]

I recently bought some a week ago when i was looking for something stronger than kratom lol. Havent used it yet for that reason as i have since realized i need to chill on both that anf kratom. Apparently its a lot stronger and more addictive

Comes on faster and stronger. The rush and euphoria are great but very short lived. Causes a real drive to redose continually. Detox symptoms are identical to opiate detox. However they are not quite as intense and much more short lived. Usually 3-5 days of hell and then the mental crap sticks around for a few more days....but then your out of the woods. I remember with opiates not feeling right til roughly 8 or 9 months after going cold turkey. So in that regard it's easier to put your mind to it and get over the hump.

After the initial effects wear off it will leave you in a good mood for most of the day.

 

[Ricky10]

Yeah, I won’t try and it. Anything that has an opiate effect is a no no for me.

I have not had the best of luck experimenting with Tianeptine Sulfate, or Sodium as stand-alone products thus far. My source on the Tianeptine Sodium could be questionable though.

Vicaine was obviously so much more than just Tianeptine, and it was definitely my preferred supplement above Kratom. I found the results to be similar to a Green Maeng Da, but Vicaine has a cleaner feel and doesn’t run me down over time. I eventually end up feeling like ass after a month or so of daily use of Kratom, but I don’t have that issue with Vicaine which I took at a relatively low dose for something like 1.5 years with only a few very short breaks. I still have some that I am using very sparingly...

 

[YoungThor]

Comes on faster and stronger. The rush and euphoria are great but very short lived. Causes a real drive to redose continually. Detox symptoms are identical to opiate detox. However they are not quite as intense and much more short lived. Usually 3-5 days of hell and then the mental crap sticks around for a few more days....but then your out of the woods. I remember with opiates not feeling right til roughly 8 or 9 months after going cold turkey. So in that regard it's easier to put your mind to it and get over the hump.

After the initial effects wear off it will leave you in a good mood for most of the day.

That’s one thing I do appreciate about kratom, the withdrawal doesn’t last months. I’m on day 11 and I’m still having anxiety but I think I’ll be done with PAWS in another week or two. Sounds like tianeptine is the same.

Now real opiates are another beast all together. It took me two years after my final relapse on H to finally stop having dreams of me trying to score in the ghetto. Then I went through a period where I still dreamed I would be around it but I would turn it down. I have goosebumps just thinking about it. The mind is a strange and marvelous thing and our dreams often reveal underlying thoughts that we try to burry during our waking hours. I knew when I started dreaming that dope was available and offered to me but I said I didn’t want it that I had turned a corner in my life.

Strangely enough I never dream about kratom, but I still have dreams about pain pills. The last time I used a pain pill was December 27th. I’m hoping after a year of staying away from them I won’t dream about them anymore.

Anyway, I’m not interested in using tianeptine because I’m done setting myself back. It’s not worth it. But it definitely blew my mind when I found out earlier today that a synthetic opiate is legally available on the internet. That shyt is nuts. A lot of people are going to f*ck themselves over with that stuff.

 

[Matthersby]

That’s one thing I do appreciate about kratom, the withdrawal doesn’t last months. I’m on day 11 and I’m still having anxiety but I think I’ll be done with PAWS in another week or two. Sounds like tianeptine is the same.

Now real opiates are another beast all together. It took me two years after my final relapse on H to finally stop having dreams of me trying to score in the ghetto. Then I went through a period where I still dreamed I would be around it but I would turn it down. I have goosebumps just thinking about it. The mind is a strange and marvelous thing and our dreams often reveal underlying thoughts that we try to burry during our waking hours. I knew when I started dreaming that dope was available and offered to me but I said I didn’t want it that I had turned a corner in my life.

Strangely enough I never dream about kratom, but I still have dreams about pain pills. The last time I used a pain pill was December 27th. I’m hoping after a year of staying away from them I won’t dream about them anymore.

Anyway, I’m not interested in using tianeptine because I’m done setting myself back. It’s not worth it. But it definitely blew my mind when I found out earlier today that a synthetic opiate is legally available on the internet. That shyt is nuts. A lot of people are going to f*ck themselves over with that stuff.

Bro I haven’t messed with pills in 5 years easy. I still have dreams tryna score oxy and this and that, hustling and manipulating, once every 3-6 months. Fearing I was running out etc. Don’t know if they ever fully go away if you were hooked bad enough for 1-2+ years. Even though I struggle with my Kratom intake, the amount of freedom I have over everything else is amazing. Once Kratom is out of my life, I never intend to let a substance have ANY power over me. The sobriety I do have over things that can destroy me, has given me a life I didn’t think was possible.

 

[THOR 70]

BULA! Just drank my first batch of kava and I like the small euphoria I got from it. Tomorrow I’ll push the dose higher and see how i feel!

 

[bigbeaph]

BULA! Just drank my first batch of kava and I like the small euphoria I got from it. Tomorrow I’ll push the dose higher and see how i feel!

Care to share the brand and dose?

 

[THOR 70]

Care to share the brand and dose?

Wakacon KAVA Fijian WAKA powder,... Invalid Link Removed

4 heaping tablespoons in about 16 oz of water.

Left it in vitamix for about 20 min on low. Added maybe a teaspoon of half and half since I’m fasting then strained through a dishcloth. Need to get some nylons and will make it the traditional way tomorrow. I drank 3/4ths of it but gave a couple shots to a friend that was too cautious to drink more. My knee pain is significantly reduced. Feels like a small hit of weed tbh.

 

[YoungThor]

Wakacon KAVA Fijian WAKA powder,... Invalid Link Removed

4 heaping tablespoons in about 16 oz of water.

Left it in vitamix for about 20 min on low. Added maybe a teaspoon of half and half since I’m fasting then strained through a dishcloth. Need to get some nylons and will make it the traditional way tomorrow. I drank 3/4ths of it but gave a couple shots to a friend that was too cautious to drink more. My knee pain is significantly reduced. Feels like a small hit of weed tbh.

That’s awesome man. I’m glad you tried it. I hear people try to compare it to booze more than weed but I think that’s only because they’re both things you drink. I also think it feels like a light dose of weed.

 

[THOR 70]

Thanks for turning me on to kava YoungThor !

 

[YoungThor]

Bro I haven’t messed with pills in 5 years easy. I still have dreams tryna score oxy and this and that, hustling and manipulating, once every 3-6 months. Fearing I was running out etc. Don’t know if they ever fully go away if you were hooked bad enough for 1-2+ years. Even though I struggle with my Kratom intake, the amount of freedom I have over everything else is amazing. Once Kratom is out of my life, I never intend to let a substance have ANY power over me. The sobriety I do have over things that can destroy me, has given me a life I didn’t think was possible.

Damn man, that’s deep. I have those same dreams with pills. I steal them instead of buy them. It’s dark. That’s the nature of pain pills. They were in our friends’ and loved ones’ medicine cabinets at times. My heroin dreams involve street deals, and now I walk away from those. Kratom I bought online or in a headshop and I don’t dream about that (maybe I have a couple times but I’m not sure). But those pill dreams are haunting. They cross all kinds of moral boundaries. And it’s not our fault. Chances are high that our first opiates were obtained through over-prescription. I had my teeth knocked in and they sent me home with Percocet. That’s the first time I ever felt high. I was about 16.

 

[Steeleydan]

Damn man, that’s deep. I have those same dreams with pills. I steal them instead of buy them. It’s dark. That’s the nature of pain pills. They were in our friends’ and loved ones’ medicine cabinets at times. My heroin dreams involve street deals, and now I walk away from those. Kratom I bought online or in a headshop and I don’t dream about that (maybe I have a couple times but I’m not sure). But those pill dreams are haunting. They cross all kinds of moral boundaries. And it’s not our fault. Chances are high that our first opiates were obtained through over-prescription. I had my teeth knocked in and they sent me home with Percocet. That’s the first time I ever felt high. I was about 16.

Its crazy man, and its like in these dreams i either do get high or almost get high and wake up with a craving or pissed that it didnt work, regardless of how many years of abstinence. I dont think these dreams ever really go away but the impact they make on us certainly lessens with time, ime.

 

[YoungThor]

Thanks for turning me on to kava YoungThor !

No problem man, I’m super glad I got someone to try it and that you like it. It’s a mystery to me why it’s so underground in the US.

 

[THOR 70]

Have any of you looked into ibogain treatment? Also another one that seems to be having good success is multiply day IV NAD+ infusions. Resets the brain chemistry/receptors to over simply it. Dm me for more on this topic if you want to continue the conversation

 

[Matthersby]

Have any of you looked into ibogain treatment? Also another one that seems to be having good success is multiply day IV NAD+ infusions. Resets the brain chemistry/receptors to over simply it. Dm me for more on this topic if you want to continue the conversation

I was struggling so badly back in 2013 that I probably read 20 studies about ibogaine and dmt. I even found a source online and I was going to take a week off work and try to follow a protocol for it. There’s reports of full blown heroin addicts doing a 5 day run or something, not noticing and withdrawals and never craving opiates again. Super interesting stuff.

 

[bigbeaph]

I was struggling so badly back in 2013 that I probably read 20 studies about ibogaine and dmt. I even found a source online and I was going to take a week off work and try to follow a protocol for it. There’s reports of full blown heroin addicts doing a 5 day run or something, not noticing and withdrawals and never craving opiates again. Super interesting stuff.

I believe it worked the same for alcohol and benzo addiction too....crazy stuff!

 

[YoungThor]

Yeah, ibogaine seems like a miracle plant. The last time I ever relapsed on heroin I took mushrooms the day after a three day run. My GF was also on mushrooms. That’s the only time she’s ever tripped and I ruined our experience by admitting to her that I had relapsed. Needless to say, it was a very dark experience, but the outcome was great. I never touched heroin again.

I’ve obviously have still had some struggles with other opiates but quitting heroin saved my life. I live in philly and the heroin here is extremely potent. Much of it is laced with fetanyl. People are dropping dead left and right. I often pass people on the streets or subway stations and it’s pretty hard to tell if they’re on the nod or dead. When I get off the train there’s typically 5 to 20 people just laying on the ground. It’s like a zombie apocalypse.

Thank you magic mushrooms.

 

[THOR 70]

Yeah, ibogaine seems like a miracle plant. The last time I ever relapsed on heroin I took mushrooms the day after a three day run. My GF was also on mushrooms. That’s the only time she’s ever tripped and I ruined our experience by admitting to her that I had relapsed. Needless to say, it was a very dark experience, but the outcome was great. I never touched heroin again.

I’ve obviously have still had some struggles with other opiates but quitting heroin saved my life. I live in philly and the heroin here is extremely potent. Much of it is laced with fetanyl. People are dropping dead left and right. I often pass people on the streets or subway stations and it’s pretty hard to tell if they’re on the nod or dead. When I get off the train there’s typically 5 to 20 people just laying on the ground. It’s like a zombie apocalypse.

Thank you magic mushrooms.

That’s intense man. Thank you for sharing your path to recovery