bigbeaph
Well-known member
Time off will help. Eventually you will cross that ceiling. You'll get no more positive effects and just get the bad sides....I'd bet your pretty close to that number.
A week into cold turkey kratom withdrawals
- Thread starter RickyBlobby
- Start date
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
Pretty sure I was there, so like I said, been over a week off Kratom.
YoungThor
Well-known member
Yeah I had a hard time with it and was pretty nonfunctional for 10-14 days. That was after near daily dosing for several weeks. I was also taking klonopin a coupe days a week though and I believe that made the kratom withdrawal worse because it likely contributed to some rebound anxiety and maybe even super minor benzo withdrawal. Kpins have a pretty long half life so it’s possible that I basically had a little in my system for that whole time I was taking kratom and then stopped both at the same time. The kratom withdrawal I believe caused the majority of my symptoms though if not all of them. I’m not sure but it was pretty rough. Nothing compared to coming off hard opiates though.
Godstrength
Board Sponsor
The key with kratom is you have to taper. Because its only a partial agonist if you can get down to less than 10 total grams per day over a period of longer than a week its not bad at all. Especially if you can get it down even lower to like 5 grams a day or even less. The severity isnt going to be there that it will if your taking 20 grams a day or more.
Also I will say from my experience with kratom. You get to a point where higher doses are no longer working. Once you get over 10 grams and continue increasing your dose youre wasting your time. If you start to dial the dose back a couple grams (if you were taking 8 per serving take 6 for example) the reverse tolerance actually starts to increase your body efficiency resensitizing you to the effects. So after a couple days you actual feel more of 6 grams than you were off 8 a couple days earlier. When that dose stops working you drop it down again.
This has been my personal experience. This morning I woke up took 2.5 g. Took 4.5 at lunch and then 5g tonight. Now I'm not feeling too much from any of these doses at this point. My body is at a point again where it's waiting for me to make a move. I'm either going to go up or down. Personally ive gradually been stepping down and 2.5 does just about the same for me as 5 g right now. So I'll step down even further. Taking an average of 3g per dose now and not going past 4. I keep sliding down. And even if every so often I take a step back (7 grams is a big dose for me at this point) it will give me a buzz but it doesn't do the damage of having to start over lowering my tolerance. I can go right back to my 3-4 gram dose next time without any consequences or extra discomfort.
In my experience you have to a) really be tired of the merry go round and resolve to seriously come off and b) have enough discipline to keep moving in the right direction. I understand for some people this seems impossible but at some point point you can get low enough that instead of weeks of discomfort its limited to a couple days of minimal sides.
Oh and btw, I started using heroin and oxycontin at 18 and did so until I was 32. I sold dope, used dope, and walked the life of a hard opiate addict for years. I lived the life which involved a lot of things which werent pretty and usually involved harming and or taking advantage of others in order to keep the upper hand on my addiction and criminal capital. So I know what hardcore opiate abuse looks like, feels like and costs to withdraw from. Kratom can and does cause some withdraw but I feel like if you can really better understand how it works chemically you can use it to work with you rather than against you. I mean the threshhold dose (which for most people is 6-8 g) and no logical reason to go beyond that dose, as you will only see an increase in sides and abuse and addictive potential. Using it in moderate doses, and rotating strains depending on what is needed.
For example:
a.m. I take a small dose of red usually. For pain and to get my back working right. The first hour for me is rough.
Mid day usually a green, white or yellow strain for better energy.
Pm heres where I prefer a little higher dose of a red or yellow. For pain mgmt and relaxation.
I'll also add that for pain management kratom works as good as most pain meds without the same abuse potential. In the end it really all boils down to the person and their mindset that determines how it will be used. If youre mindset is: I need to take as much of this as possible to feel as,good as I can to help me escape from the reality of my life. Then youre going to have problems regardless of what crutch you turn to. However if youre able to understand and supplement with kratom rather than see it as the solution and a means to solving life's problems then it can be beneficial.
The beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder. Even as a former addict, ive learned to use it synergistically at lower doses. And while I still aim to jump off I am much much happier and joyful taking it in moderation.
YoungThor
Well-known member
Good post. The only thing I’d like to add is that not only reducing the total amount you take in a day, and reducing the size of each dose helps, but also reducing the dosing frequency. There’s been studies done on opiates that show limiting dosing frequency is even more important than how much you take per day in terms of how dependent your body becomes and how bad withdrawal will be. So an example with kratom would be something like this: a person who takes one mega dose each night after dinner of about 12 grams of kratom would likely have an easier time stopping than a person who also takes 12 grams a day but splits it up into four doses of 3 grams each. The more frequently you spike those chemical levels in your brain, the more addicted you become.
Personally, the addict in me always has a hard time tapering on anything. I know there’s many other people who can do it successfully though.
bigbeaph
Well-known member
I'd agree with that. Never been able to taper either...cold turkey or it's not happening. However when I was addicted to kratom a few years ago shortly after coming off a major oxymorphone habit that's how I did it. Kratom doses were 3 hours apart. Just slowly moved that so 3hr 15min apart today, maybe for a couple days, then 3:30 for a day or 2, etc. Before I knew it I was 6 hours between doses with very little discomfort involved and eventually my body just lost the hook for it.
Godstrength
Board Sponsor
What's HR
kisaj
Legend
Names mean little to nothing with kratom. All that matters is the batch and sometimes the color, but even then it comes down to harvesting and curing methods. Find a good batch that agrees with you, buy it up. Even the amount of alkaloids within a batch can vary, so to have anyone say that XYZ has a certain amount of alkaloids, there no way you will know if you are getting that same batch.
Agree on tapering and if you aren't already in the higher amounts- don't go there. It truly is one substance in which less is more. Then your tolerance breaks are much easier.
Agree on tapering and if you aren't already in the higher amounts- don't go there. It truly is one substance in which less is more. Then your tolerance breaks are much easier.
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
Yeah man for the most part. I feel good, not as motivated at work as before but it’s hard to remember just how motivated I was before I ever started, lol. But all in all I’m good man, thanks.
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
Moon kratom has $100 kilos use code heart. The green, yellow and meng da are all really good
YoungThor
Well-known member
I hope all who have quit kratom have stayed off it.
I’m trying to quit it again for the tenth time. Hopefully I can avoid using it at all ever again. Unfortunately my addict mind controls how much I use, instead of my rational mind. And my body becomes dependent on it in a matter of days, leaving me with ****ty withdrawals. The withdrawals from this plant are crazy for me. I won’t list them all but one weird one is difficulty breathing. It sucks.
To help me quit I’ll be drinking a lot of kava, smoking some weed, dropping cbd, drinking some tea that contains some relaxing herbs, and taking valerian root at night. I’ll take some melatonin if I need to and some ibuprofen. I’ll stick to light exercise for the first 4-5 days until I can resume working out harder.
Anyway that’s where I’m at in my kratom journey. I want to close this chapter of my life for good. It’s not worth the price I always have to pay.
I’m trying to quit it again for the tenth time. Hopefully I can avoid using it at all ever again. Unfortunately my addict mind controls how much I use, instead of my rational mind. And my body becomes dependent on it in a matter of days, leaving me with ****ty withdrawals. The withdrawals from this plant are crazy for me. I won’t list them all but one weird one is difficulty breathing. It sucks.
To help me quit I’ll be drinking a lot of kava, smoking some weed, dropping cbd, drinking some tea that contains some relaxing herbs, and taking valerian root at night. I’ll take some melatonin if I need to and some ibuprofen. I’ll stick to light exercise for the first 4-5 days until I can resume working out harder.
Anyway that’s where I’m at in my kratom journey. I want to close this chapter of my life for good. It’s not worth the price I always have to pay.
Renew1
Legend
This may be old news for some, but a US distributor (site) had a quantity of Kratom seized by the DEA (I think a couple of months ago). I was going to post a link to the recent article on this site, but I got tied up.
... If anyone needed any extra incentive to try and quit sooner, rather than later.
... If anyone needed any extra incentive to try and quit sooner, rather than later.
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
Agmatine 3x a day. KSM66 600mg daily minimum.
bigbeaph
Well-known member
I'll have to double check but I think that was before the DEA decided not to schedule it. It's been pretty quiet since the decision came down. I'm more than likely a kratom user for life...its kratom, hard opiates, or I'm a cripple....they better not be starting this up again
Renew1
Legend
You follow this much more closely than I do, I'm sure. I have used Kratom short term (a couple of times) when I had urgent need of pain relief, and couldn't easily get narcotics. I have no problem with people using it, I just hope people that don't need to take it (not like yourself) will be very careful with it, because I've seen people struggling with dependence to it.
I found the article I was thinking of. The article was published days ago, and the Kratom had been seized in November and never returned. By the secondhand comments in the article, it sounded like seizures were still taking place, but I'm not sure.........
Invalid Link Removed
Steeleydan
Member
Welp. Started about a week in a half ago already hit rhe ceiling where no matter hos much kratom i take, i do not get any effects and essentially feel like i havent taken any kratom. Did some research and apparently kratom randomly stops working at times. Doesnt even feel like a tolerance issue, its as if its not digesting or all the antagonist alkaloids are just permanently latched to the receptors preventing thw opioid agonists from attaching. Probably for the best and i might just stop, even though there are apparently methods to getting the effects back like dropping the dose and such
Edit: damn i hate this phone keyboard, makes my spelling look like a childs
Edit: damn i hate this phone keyboard, makes my spelling look like a childs
YoungThor
Well-known member
Well you pretty much gotta choose if you wanna stay on long term and never come off or eventually face the challenge of going through withdrawals. Maybe you’re one of those people who can quit easily but maybe your one of those people who will experience hellish withdrawals that incapacitate you for weeks. It’s not something to take too lightly.
YoungThor
Well-known member
And for those who are interested in kratom and things of that nature, check out kava. Don’t bother with kava supplements, they’re overpriced and ineffective. Get the root powder and some type of strainer bag and make a batch to drink. You can abuse the shyt out of it with almost no consequences. Your body doesn’t become dependent on it. It helps with anxiety, sleep, pain reduction, it can be mildly euphoric, and some strains are kind of cerebral, creating a stoned type feeling. There’s many different strains and they produce different effects so you’ll have to do some research and experimenting.
Anyway, I’m not a kava salesman or anything but I want to spread some knowledge on this plant because it has some awesome medicinal and recreational value. I’m detoxing from kratom right now and kava (plus a little weed and cbd) are really helping me get through these first couple rough days. I’m about to brew up a strong batch right now.
Anyway, I’m not a kava salesman or anything but I want to spread some knowledge on this plant because it has some awesome medicinal and recreational value. I’m detoxing from kratom right now and kava (plus a little weed and cbd) are really helping me get through these first couple rough days. I’m about to brew up a strong batch right now.
bigbeaph
Well-known member
If it's not doing much for you I urge you to take a break. I know what you are talking about - i hit that wall years ago. I can say when all of the "felt" effects were gone i still experienced pain relief....great pain relief. It's kind of a good built in safety measure bc i have no reason to take it outside of when I'm hurting. Point is even if your not feeling it, it's still working. And if you continue to take it trying to catch a buzz you may get no recreation out of it but further build a dependence..digging a hole you'll have to climb out of.
Steeleydan
Member
Haha yeah. I waa like alright **** it im gonna just be wreckless and just stay faded! Followed by a slap in the face by kratom essentially like "nope, no you're not". Oh well. Putting it down for now i guess. Didnt do any today and felt fine. Waa essentially only 10 days of consistent every 4 hour dosing and worked every dose and then that came to a screetching halt lol. Was definitely a dumb decision to pick it up though.
YoungThor
Well-known member
Update:
Today is day 8 and I’m pretty much through the physical withdrawals. Any physical withdrawals I feel at this point are the result of heightened anxiety (sweaty palms, racing heart, etc.). The last two night I’ve slept very well, even deeper than usual. I attribute that to my body needing extra sleep because it’s recovering from the lack of sleep and overall abuse it was exposed to on those first 5 days of withdrawal. I exercised every other day for the first week and actually went pretty hard but that was literally the only physical exertion I had during those days. The rest of the day I would rest.
So what am I feeling at this point? The battle is definitely not over. It’s a mental game now. I’m dealing with anxiety, boredom, a sense of dread, agitation, anger, mixed with nostalgia and sentimental thoughts. To put it simply, I’m emotionally raw. The good news is that I have absolutely zero cravings to use any opiate at all. My outlook on the future is bright, I just have to get through this next stretch of detox.
Also, I’d like to mention that this withdrawal may not simply be from kratom alone. I used pain pills and kratom (switching it up day by day and mixing them together other days) for three months and then switched to just using kratom for the past two months. So I was using opiates for five months total (let’s please not argue about whether kratom is an opiate because it certainly functions as one for me). So maybe the damage I’ve done to my neurochemistry is cumalutve and I’m currently experiencing a withdrawal that is largely the result of kratom, but still partially the result of the pain pills I took previously. In addition to this, I’ve been addicted to opiates a couple times over the last seven years, including heroin (haven’t touched that for 3+ years), so my body is prone to getting addicted to them again very fast.
Last thing I’d like to mention is that I’ve withdrawaled cold turkey about four or five times over this five month period. Every time I would make it about seven to ten days and then relapse. So my body is beaten down from this shyt and I’m so sick of the sleepless nights, cold sweats, restlessness, mental anguish, and the other thousand withdrawal symptoms, even the minor ones like runny nose, goosebumps, and yawning. I’ve finally gotten over that hump and now have absolutely known desire to touch any of that stuff again. I can’t handle another withdrawal in my life.
Today is day 8 and I’m pretty much through the physical withdrawals. Any physical withdrawals I feel at this point are the result of heightened anxiety (sweaty palms, racing heart, etc.). The last two night I’ve slept very well, even deeper than usual. I attribute that to my body needing extra sleep because it’s recovering from the lack of sleep and overall abuse it was exposed to on those first 5 days of withdrawal. I exercised every other day for the first week and actually went pretty hard but that was literally the only physical exertion I had during those days. The rest of the day I would rest.
So what am I feeling at this point? The battle is definitely not over. It’s a mental game now. I’m dealing with anxiety, boredom, a sense of dread, agitation, anger, mixed with nostalgia and sentimental thoughts. To put it simply, I’m emotionally raw. The good news is that I have absolutely zero cravings to use any opiate at all. My outlook on the future is bright, I just have to get through this next stretch of detox.
Also, I’d like to mention that this withdrawal may not simply be from kratom alone. I used pain pills and kratom (switching it up day by day and mixing them together other days) for three months and then switched to just using kratom for the past two months. So I was using opiates for five months total (let’s please not argue about whether kratom is an opiate because it certainly functions as one for me). So maybe the damage I’ve done to my neurochemistry is cumalutve and I’m currently experiencing a withdrawal that is largely the result of kratom, but still partially the result of the pain pills I took previously. In addition to this, I’ve been addicted to opiates a couple times over the last seven years, including heroin (haven’t touched that for 3+ years), so my body is prone to getting addicted to them again very fast.
Last thing I’d like to mention is that I’ve withdrawaled cold turkey about four or five times over this five month period. Every time I would make it about seven to ten days and then relapse. So my body is beaten down from this shyt and I’m so sick of the sleepless nights, cold sweats, restlessness, mental anguish, and the other thousand withdrawal symptoms, even the minor ones like runny nose, goosebumps, and yawning. I’ve finally gotten over that hump and now have absolutely known desire to touch any of that stuff again. I can’t handle another withdrawal in my life.
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
Stay strong man, the worst part is over, all downhill from here. Feels great to be off that shyte
Steeleydan
Member
Oh man i didnt realize you were currently dealing with this, otherwise i wouldnt have been posting about myself binging on it the other day. Keep your head up brother. While the physical symptoms are the most nightmarish parts of opioid withdrawal, the mental stuff that comes afterwards is what always catches me off guard and i either get bored and "try again" at "responsible use" or i get comfortable and forget the struggle that said substance put me through and think its no biggie to hop back on
CATdiesel76
Well-known member
I take about 2-3 grams anywhere from 3-4 times a week. I’m in medical sales so really helps when standing long periods with back and hip pain as well as feeling focused without having to megadose caffeine all day. Usually it’s for pain but sometimes just for a mood boost after a **** day. No signs of physical dependence and the same dose still seems to hit hard but probably going to try to lessen up a bit just to be safe
kisaj
Legend
Scott Gotlieb is resigning and all of a sudden I got 4 Reddit updates about cheap kilos. Seems vendors stocked up and now that it isn’t going to be scheduled any time soon, they are having sales.
Only thing I can say is to keep dosing low and take regular breaks. I have literally zero WD following this.
Only thing I can say is to keep dosing low and take regular breaks. I have literally zero WD following this.
YoungThor
Well-known member
No problem man. Back when I quit smoking people you used to light one in front of me and apologize but I’d tell them it’s fine. I realize even though I can’t use something responsibly, others still can.
And what you said about getting bored and tricking yourself into thinking you can use again or just totally forgetting how much it hurt to quit, all that is some serious truth. My mind has tricked me that same way so many times. But when it tries to do that this time I’m prepared to remind myself that it’s all lies. I can’t use that stuff without suffering the consequences.
Right now I have absolutely no desire to use. I like the feeling of being clear headed. It’s not like you can’t function on opiates but you certainly aren’t absorbing reality 100 percent. You kinda have blinders on all the time and the drugs just let some information seap through. Of course this is dose dependent. I remember RickyBlobby saying he feels much more clear headed when he quit and I’m dealing with the same thing now.
YoungThor
Well-known member
Thanks man. I’m glad to hear you stayed off. I remember a long time ago you talking about how bad you wanted to get off it. You said you’re sick of the nights when you’re drinking beers and having a good time at the casino but then you have to go out to your car to drink a disgusting green liquid or else start to feel shytty. That visual always stuck with me because it’s a great example of how demanding an addiction is. Being dependent sucks.
Smildj
New member
Maybe a stupid question, but is kratom withdrawal dose dependent? I’ve been taking kratom for 5 months but have never taken more than 10 grams a day. Typically take only 5grams. I haven’t noticed any symptoms when I go 3 or 4 days without using. When
Do the symptoms really start to hit you?
Do the symptoms really start to hit you?
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
3 days at 2g only, hit nicely. Then nothing. Everyone's body is crazy different.
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
You may never have withdrawal issues. Some have horrible. I don't withdrawal from caffiene, but some have horrible migraines if they stop.
Smildj
New member
Good to know. I will say that I have experienced rebound nasal congestion similar to severe allergy symptoms which was easily alleviated with a kratom dose. Only happened one time though. Had a similar experience from an unidentified ingredient in preworkout a few years back, ridiculous allergy symptoms that persisted for weeks then disappeared. I think that is likely the extent of my withdrawal. I truly feel bad for those that experience much worse. Hang in there guys.
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
Kratom is great when you have cold symptoms. Better than any OTC medicine.
Steeleydan
Member
Im interested in kava root as well. I like the idea of micronized kava as you just mix it with a drink as powder.
YoungThor
Well-known member
Yeah, I do. I’m the guy who brought it up in the previous post. If you get kava root you’ll need something to knead and strain it with like this:
Invalid Link Removed
I like to watch reviews on YouTube by a guy who calls himself Kavasseur. He’s reviewed so many products from a multitude of companies and he can give you a good idea of what to expect. Right off the bat I’d like to warn you that almost everyone hates the taste other than kavasseur. You drink it for the effect, not the taste.
YoungThor
Well-known member
I got a Fijian Waka right now called Loa Waka. It’s pretty strong, but balanced. It’s got a nice cerebral effect, definitely relaxing, but not too heavy on the body. I think it’s drinkable during the daytime if you don’t make a super potent batch.
I’d like to point out that kava requires a lot of experimenting with the water to kava ratio. With the stuff I’ve been drinking lately I’ve be been using 5-6 tablespoons of kava for about 16-20 fluid oz of water. I’ll drink that and see how I feel and then often I’ll make a second bowl by reusing the same kava I made the first bowl with. You won’t get all the kavalactones (the alkaloids that create the effect) out of the strainer the first time. I’ll sometime use the same kava for three separate bowls before I empty out the strainer.
Also, kava is not like kratom in terms of how it’ll effect you the first time. The majority of kratom users get a good sense of the drug the first time they try it. But with kava you need to learn what its doing and how to appreciate it. Some people claim it actually has a reverse tolerance, so you’ll feel the effects even more as you become a more seasoned kava drinker. If you don’t get anything out of it the first time then increase the dose. If you make a really strong batch and drink it fast then you’ll basically be drunk from it, which is unpleasant. But you’ll learn from that experience.
YoungThor
Well-known member
The intensity of drug withdrawals are always dose dependent. The duration you used the drug also matters, the amount of times you dose per day matters (example: 8 grams at night is better than 2 grams every 6 hours). This is because dosing once a day gives your body the opportunity to function at certain points without any kratom active in your system. Also you’re genetics play a role. And how many times you’ve previously withdrawaled plays a role. If I use the same amount of kratom in the exact same way over two different six month periods, the second withdrawal will be worse than the first.
THOR 70
Well-known member
Thanks for all the info brother! I am really excited to try it! One guy just blends it in the blender for a long time, let’s soak with some fat, blends again, then strains it and says its super strong. I like the traditional way too.
I need something for pain and not liking some of the Kratom stories. Hoping this will be a good substitute for alcohol as I’m probably going to be giving that up all together
YoungThor
Well-known member
No problem man. I was hoping I could influence some people when it comes to kava. It’s essentially risk free, and I think people need to know about it. It comes with a lot of medicinal uses and is also recreational.
There’s definitely other methods to making it that work. But ive just personally stuck to the traditional method. Using something called an aluball is another option. It’s pribably the most convenient way to make it, but I don’t have one yet.
I’m a relatively big drinker for someone who’s into fitness. I gotta admit I love craft beer. But kava definitely works as a substitute. It often functions as one for me.
I actually just made a bowl a couple minutes ago. I’ve had three glasses, about three fl. oz. in each, and my pain and soreness is greatly reduced. My muscles are super relaxed. I’ll probably have a few more yet. By the way, I’m drinking Kalm with Kava’s “Borongoru” which is considered their strongest kava by most people. I used six tablespoons in about 18 oz of water for my first batch. This time it turned out to be the perfect ratio. Each glass packs a punch.
THOR 70
Well-known member
That’s so awesome man. You’re description is music to my ear. The stuff seems like it can be expensive. I’m 6’4” 260lbs, how many therapeutic doses do you think a guy my size would get out of the pound bag?