Back to the topic at hand... I really don't agree with the whole mast vs Ai's topic. I just don't get it, why would you allow e2 to sky rocket if you can prevent it from doing that in the first place? What am I missing? Ai's aren't really toxic or anything, why not take them? Serm's have more sides then Ai's; for me notably a loss in libido, which translates to a lowering in self esteem and lot's of other stuff. And clomid, ugh, don't get me started on that chit. I get small zits, I get emotional as fuak, in a bad way... If I can just take an Ai and not experience any of those sides, then hurray. I don't mind viron though, but do mind loosing hair and getting acne. So again, I revert to Ai's...
1. E2 is highly anabolic itself. High levels of E2 directly equate to higher levels of nitrogen retention and protein synthesis.
2. I've yet to meet anyone who experiences negative side effects on Torem. I chose Cloimid for this experiement because I did not want a SERM that prevents or treats gyno. I wanted to see how well the Mast performed in this regard.
3. E2 is anti-inflammatory -- dose dependently
4. E2 directly repairs joints by increasing type I, III, and III collagen synthesis -- dose dependently
5. E2 is a
potent modulator of IGF-1
Bodybuilders in the 1970's had only two drugs to control E2: Proviron and Masteron. These drugs prevented the negative effects of E2 (by interfering with ER-a binding) while allowing for the positive effects of ER-b activation. I've never seen a pic from the 1970's of a BBer with gyno, even mild gyno -- and I've looked.
I understand being wary of having too-high E2 levels, but high E2 levels are irrelevant if ER-a binding and downstream cascade is suppressed. I'm not sure why this
proven scientific fact is so angrily disputed on here, especially among guys who have never even tried using DHT as their source of E2 control.
I get that this flies in the face of what has been parroted on bodybuilding forums for the past decades, but just because something gets repeated over and over doesn't make it true. I am really the only person here who consistently posts citations to science journal articles to back up my arguments, and instead of appreciation for sharing knowledge, I get angrily rebuked
without any proof other than speculation or anecdote.
I never claimed scientific proof for running SERMs on cycle other than one study, and my data for this is largely anecdotal. And for those saying, "SERMs lower IGF-1 = NO GAINZ!" I would offer that the IGF-1 reductions are very modest even at high doses, no more than 20%, and that both T and E2 potently elevate IGF-1 and would more than overcome the slight reduction that might occur from the modest use of SERMs.
Finally, to those who have criticized my method of explanation: You have to realize how difficult it is to explain some of these concepts to people who lack even a basic understanding of molecular biology. People who don't even understanding the basic of action potentials, inhibitory and excitatory neurons, downstream cascade signalling, and the difference between agonists, partial agonists, antagonists, mixed agonists/antagonists, inverse agonists, receptor subtypes, and receptor-mediated nuclear gene expression. These are
basic topics that any 1st year pharmacology grad student knows. Which is not to say I'm saying people here are stupid, they just generally lack the fundamental knowledge to even understand some of the concepts I'm trying to explain. Some get angry and defensive, some are open-minded and willing to learn.
So yeah, I'm not very nice sometimes, but you have to understand that my time is money. When I give detailed explanations, I'm offering graduate-level knowledge
for free. If people would at least give that a cursory consideration and show even an iota of appreciation, I wouldn't be so rude.
The only reason I post on this forum -- and this is the ONLY forum I post on -- is to try to stimulate discussion on new concepts and to educate people on bodybuilding pharmacology. If I can get one person to consider a new viewpoint then I've succeeded and my time has not been wasted.
