You do not need "prolactin control" on a Deca/NPP cycle

[Spurfy]

You just need Masteron (or Proviron)

The issues with nandrolone is

1: That it binds to ER-alpha
2. It is 5-alpha-reduced to DHN, a very weak androgen that competes with DHT
3. Elevated DHT directly inhibits downstream firing from ER-alpha receptors

There is no such thing as "prolactin" gyno, otherwise every single guy with hyperprolactinemia would have gyno.

This is also why GYNO is a side effect of finasteride.

 

[Nac]

Mast:nand dose?

 

[Old Witch]

You do not need "prolactin control" on a Deca/NPP cycle

Mast:nand dose?

As little as 200mg masteron enanthate per week is enough to elicit sufficient anti progestational effects to combat even high doses of nandrolone or tren.

 

[Old Witch]

You just need Masteron (or Proviron)

The issues with nandrolone is

1: That it binds to ER-alpha
2. It is 5-alpha-reduced to DHN, a very weak androgen that competes with DHT
3. Elevated DHT directly inhibits downstream firing from ER-alpha receptors

There is no such thing as "prolactin" gyno, otherwise every single guy with hyperprolactinemia would have gyno.

This is also why GYNO is a side effect of finasteride.

Prolactin gyno... absolutely must be a thing. If my estrogen gets high I get puffy and red, headaches, water retention, rapid weight gain. Nipples unaffected. If my prolactin goes high my dick goes limp and my nips itch like crazy. So... yeah bull****.

 

[CatSnake]

good article, slightly off topic:

Winstrol, Deca and Your Joints - iSteroids.com


^the author asserts that the issue is nandrolone binding to the progesterone receptor, which DHT competes with.



I'M not sure how nandrolone binds to the ER, but I could be wrong....

.

 

[CatSnake]

Prolactin gyno... absolutely must be a thing. If my estrogen gets high I get puffy and red, headaches, water retention, rapid weight gain. Nipples unaffected. If my prolactin goes high my dick goes limp and my nips itch like crazy. So... yeah bull****.

worth a read:

https://www.steroidal.com/steroids-side-effects/prolactin/prolactin-anabolic-steroids/




.

 

[Old Witch]

worth a read:

https://www.steroidal.com/steroids-side-effects/prolactin/prolactin-anabolic-steroids/




.

What that says is indeed prolactin causes gyno. What it also says is progesterone should not release prolactin but instead inhibit it.

As I said, when my prolactin goes high I get progestogenic sides, namely itchy/leaky nipples and anorgasmia.

 

[Old Witch]

Also, I have seen study to suggest 19-nor steroids may cause gynecomastia via direct interaction with receptors, without other hormones involved. Hence my dislike of them. You can get gyno even on caber and ralox. No bueno.

 

[CatSnake]

What that says is indeed prolactin causes gyno. What it also says is progesterone should not release prolactin but instead inhibit it.

As I said, when my prolactin goes high I get progestogenic sides, namely itchy/leaky nipples and anorgasmia.

yeah, I think the author there made a great point that while deca "is a derivative of progesterone, it's a modification." so it's effects might not always be the same, either.... or be the same on one receptor, and entirely different on another receptor (much like how estrogen and SERMs differ in their actions).

 

[Spurfy]

Prolactin gyno... absolutely must be a thing. If my estrogen gets high I get puffy and red, headaches, water retention, rapid weight gain. Nipples unaffected. If my prolactin goes high my dick goes limp and my nips itch like crazy. So... yeah bull****.

Prolactin aggravates gyno, but there is no gyno without binding to ER-alpha in the first place.

 

[Spurfy]

Also, I have seen study to suggest 19-nor steroids may cause gynecomastia via direct interaction with receptors, without other hormones involved. Hence my dislike of them. You can get gyno even on caber and ralox. No bueno.

Yeah, they're acting on ER-alpha, same as E2.

 

[Spurfy]

I'M not sure how nandrolone binds to the ER, but I could be wrong....

.

Synthetic 19-nortestosterone derivatives as estrogen receptor alpha subtype-selective ligands induce similar receptor conformational changes and steroid receptor coactivator recruitment than natural estrogens.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16616843

 

[Spurfy]

This.

200 mg of Mast is adequate.
300 mg is great.
400 mg is overkill.

That's at any reasonable 19-nor dose.

 

[Old Witch]

Yeah, they're acting on ER-alpha, same as E2.

Correct, however I am suggesting that serms do not block this action, which was the scope of that study I mentioned and the reason for my statement.

 

[Spurfy]

Correct, however I am suggesting that serms do not block this action, which was the scope of that study I mentioned and the reason for my statement.

Where did you post a study?

SERMs block the binding of ER-alpha ligands, that's what they are designed to do and they do so very well.

I'm running TE/NPP/Mast with 25 mg clomid per day and no AI and am having zero side effects. The cloimd is to prevent the hard HPG-axis shutdown that 19-nors cause, and the Mast is to prevent the ER-alpha effects of nandrolone in the body.

 

[Old Witch]

Where did you post a study?

SERMs block the binding of ER-alpha ligands, that's what they are designed to do and they do so very well.

I'm running TE/NPP/Mast with 25 mg clomid per day and no AI and am having zero side effects. The cloimd is to prevent the hard HPG-axis shutdown that 19-nors cause, and the Mast is to prevent the ER-alpha effects of nandrolone in the body.

Read it again a few more times.

Also, if clomid works so well to fully and completely block the binding of er alpha ligands, then you don’t need masteron here. Except... oh, wait. Yeah. I thought so.


Happy holidays. I have nothing more to offer.

 

[Spurfy]

Read it again a few more times.

Maybe I'm blind, but I don't see any study you've posted in this thread.

Also, if clomid works so well to fully and completely block the binding of er alpha ligands, then you don’t need masteron here. Except... oh, wait. Yeah. I thought so.

Because a saturation dose of clomid would cause side effects, just like a high dose of Masteron would. When you use smaller doses of each, you accomplish the same effect a single large dose of just one, but without the side effects. This is literally the definition of synergy.

No one will tell you 50-100 mg/day of clomid is fun, but almost no one is going to complain about 25 mg.

 

[Jinsun]

Clomid binds selectively to ER's. Depends very much so on the tissue's. At some tissue's it binds more in some less. So the estrogen that has build up in your system, due to not using an Ai, is having an effect in some tissue's. Doesn't mean chit if you feel alright or not; estrogen is still having an effect. I'm surprised you are not acknowledging this? What am I missing?

 

[CatSnake]

Synthetic 19-nortestosterone derivatives as estrogen receptor alpha subtype-selective ligands induce similar receptor conformational changes and steroid receptor coactivator recruitment than natural estrogens.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16616843

interesting.

 

[Old Witch]

Clomid binds selectively to ER's. Depends very much so on the tissue's. At some tissue's it binds more in some less. So the estrogen that has build up in your system, due to not using an Ai, is having an effect in some tissue's. Doesn't mean chit if you feel alright or not; estrogen is still having an effect. I'm surprised you are not acknowledging this? What am I missing?

Nailed it.

 

[BarryScott]

So stupid question but does this mean microdosing superdrol would do the same thing?

 

[Old Witch]

You do not need "prolactin control" on a Deca/NPP cycle

So stupid question but does this mean microdosing superdrol would do the same thing?

I had this same hypothesis. I think a more effective dose would be required. DMZ and methylstenbolone as well should do it. As long as there’s a 3 position ketone and a 2 position methyl attachment on a dht. I think.

 

[dvw]

I'm pretty sure trenbolone and nandrolone, trestolone all increase prolactin to and extent. Increase prolactin causes itchy puffy nipples.

 

[Spurfy]

Clomid binds selectively to ER's. Depends very much so on the tissue's. At some tissue's it binds more in some less. So the estrogen that has build up in your system, due to not using an Ai, is having an effect in some tissue's. Doesn't mean chit if you feel alright or not; estrogen is still having an effect. I'm surprised you are not acknowledging this? What am I missing?

Umm yeah, that's why you're running Masteron at the same time. Masteron is highly selective at shutting down ER-a signalling in breast tissue. That's why it used to be a first line breast cancer chemotherapy agent.

The clomid is highly selective at blocking hypothalamic ER-a.

 

[Spurfy]

I'm pretty sure trenbolone and nandrolone, trestolone all increase prolactin to and extent. Increase prolactin causes itchy puffy nipples.

"Serum prolactin level was markedly elevated during the control period. It fell during the administration of ND (nandrolone) and increased with the use of TE (test E)."https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/106002808001400705

19-nors are technically progestins. Progestins lower prolactin.

Itchy, puffy nipples are caused by E2, not prolactin. Prolactin can make this worse, but it's not the cause.

 

[RickyBlobby]

Spurf,

What are your thoughts on this. Specifically the fact that trest does not bind to shbg. How much more powerful would you say trearolone is compared to test based on this info

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/308073-5-10mg-im.html

 

[Spurfy]

Spurf,

What are your thoughts on this. Specifically the fact that trest does not bind to shbg. How much more powerful would you say trearolone is compared to test based on this info

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/308073-5-10mg-im.html

I only know about drugs that have been well-studied in humans. Sorry.

 

[dvw]

I thought 19 nor based compounds are anti estrogenic cause they bond to the progesterone receptors. But binding to progesterone receptor can lead to increase prolactin in body

 

[Old Witch]

You do not need "prolactin control" on a Deca/NPP cycle

Essentially you’re saying it’s better not to use testosterone with functional replacements like most 19-nor steroids we commonly use. I agree.

I still think they’re awful for every other possible reason. So they’re not the cause of the gyno symptoms they tend to elicit. No big deal. They still cause brain or nerve damage or both. Except dienolone. That one is an exception for some reason. It’s actually neuroprotective.

Now, I am not aware of any dhts which cause such effects, though I would not be surprised to find that they do.

With the exception of Trest, they’re not feel good compounds. And nothing is worse to me than a drug that’s unhealthy and also makes you feel like ****. What the hell would I want to lay awake at night sweating bullets with my heart pounding and paranoid delusions running through my head for? That ain’t how you get gains.

 

[Jinsun]

Umm yeah, that's why you're running Masteron at the same time. Masteron is highly selective at shutting down ER-a signalling in breast tissue. That's why it used to be a first line breast cancer chemotherapy agent.

The clomid is highly selective at blocking hypothalamic ER-a.

That's what I'm saying; there are plenty of other tissue's that matter, not just hypothalamus and breast. So if you want to stop e2 from causing problems, to which you don't even know it's happening, or maybe you do (skin problems for me), you need to control e2. And sorry, but using masteron or proviron for that is just silly, as we have far more effective substances for that
namely Ai's haha

So arguing that masteron was used for e2 control, when there weren't Ai's yet avaliable, is a moot point. Why go back in time and use non perfect protocols, when we live in the present and there are better thing's avaliable? It just sounds like complicating, so you feel like you are doing something special imo.

Also, clomid wont do anything for hpta on a proper cycle. You'll get completely shuttdown. You get completely shuttdown on much lighter cycles then yours, when using serm's. Seen it proven with bloods many times. I certanly wish a serm would help on a proper cycle, but the fact of the matter is it doesn't. Or do you think it's doing something inspite LH being shuttdown? Maybe in the gonads departement? The hpta doesn't react only to estrogen but also to androgens. Estrogen isn't the only negative feedback loop. Hell, I tried bringing back my hpta on 20mg dbol and 20mg var with 50mg clomid and 20mg tamox and literally nothing moved. Tried it with and andro stack, also got completely shuttdown.

Also regarding gyno, I only found that progesteron doesn't have a direct impact on it. Only indirect via estrogen. So I am very interested in some studies where it's been proven that prog has a direct effect on breast tissue. Tnx

 

[Spurfy]

That's what I'm saying; there are plenty of other tissue's that matter, not just hypothalamus and breast. So if you want to stop e2 from causing problems, to which you don't even know it's happening, or maybe you do (skin problems for me), you need to control e2. And sorry, but using masteron or proviron for that is just silly, as we have far more effective substances for that
namely Ai's haha

So arguing that masteron was used for e2 control, when there weren't Ai's yet avaliable, is a moot point. Why go back in time and use non perfect protocols, when we live in the present and there are better thing's avaliable? It just sounds like complicating, so you feel like you are doing something special imo.

Also, clomid wont do anything for hpta on a proper cycle. You'll get completely shuttdown. You get completely shuttdown on much lighter cycles then yours, when using serm's. Seen it proven with bloods many times. I certanly wish a serm would help on a proper cycle, but the fact of the matter is it doesn't. Or do you think it's doing something inspite LH being shuttdown? Maybe in the gonads departement? The hpta doesn't react only to estrogen but also to androgens. Estrogen isn't the only negative feedback loop. Hell, I tried bringing back my hpta on 20mg dbol and 20mg var with 50mg clomid and 20mg tamox and literally nothing moved. Tried it with and andro stack, also got completely shuttdown.

Also regarding gyno, I only found that progesteron doesn't have a direct impact on it. Only indirect via estrogen. So I am very interested in some studies where it's been proven that prog has a direct effect on breast tissue. Tnx

Since you clearly already know everything, there's really no need for me to reply.

 

[Jinsun]

Since you clearly already know everything, there's really no need for me to reply.

Sarcasm and offendednes aside, I do not know how you think clomid would help with big cycles that contain 19nor's?

Fyi, my statements are just as - or less - absolute then yours. They at least contain phrases as "imo", and leave open ended sentences with question marks. But your rhetoric is totally absolute and does not give way to a conversation, it does not try to open a discourse really. They are coming from a point of absolute point of knowledge. Are you a clinician, researcher or something?

If you put down some statements, you are defacto opening a discours. This is a FORUM nonetheless. Or are we all just missing the point of forums? Otherwise just writte a book, nobody will ask or try to confront you with anything there

 

[Spurfy]

Sarcasm and offendednes aside, I do not know how you think clomid would help with big cycles that contain 19nor's?

Fyi, my statements are just as - or less - absolute then yours. They at least contain phrases as "imo", and leave open ended sentences with question marks. But your rhetoric is totally absolute and does not give way to a conversation, it does not try to open a discourse really. They are coming from a point of absolute point of knowledge. Are you a clinician, researcher or something?

If you put down some statements, you are defacto opening a discours. This is a FORUM nonetheless. Or are we all just missing the point of forums? Otherwise just writte a book, nobody will ask or try to confront you with anything there

I'll post bloods the last week of this cycle and settle this once and for all.

 

[RickyBlobby]

That's what I'm saying; there are plenty of other tissue's that matter, not just hypothalamus and breast. So if you want to stop e2 from causing problems, to which you don't even know it's happening, or maybe you do (skin problems for me), you need to control e2. And sorry, but using masteron or proviron for that is just silly, as we have far more effective substances for that
namely Ai's haha

So arguing that masteron was used for e2 control, when there weren't Ai's yet avaliable, is a moot point. Why go back in time and use non perfect protocols, when we live in the present and there are better thing's avaliable? It just sounds like complicating, so you feel like you are doing something special imo.

Also, clomid wont do anything for hpta on a proper cycle. You'll get completely shuttdown. You get completely shuttdown on much lighter cycles then yours, when using serm's. Seen it proven with bloods many times. I certanly wish a serm would help on a proper cycle, but the fact of the matter is it doesn't. Or do you think it's doing something inspite LH being shuttdown? Maybe in the gonads departement? The hpta doesn't react only to estrogen but also to androgens. Estrogen isn't the only negative feedback loop. Hell, I tried bringing back my hpta on 20mg dbol and 20mg var with 50mg clomid and 20mg tamox and literally nothing moved. Tried it with and andro stack, also got completely shuttdown.

Also regarding gyno, I only found that progesteron doesn't have a direct impact on it. Only indirect via estrogen. So I am very interested in some studies where it's been proven that prog has a direct effect on breast tissue. Tnx

To say clomid fails to maintain htpa function on a proper cycle is incorrect. It worked for me. And others, with blood work to prove.

For some reason it doesn't work every time though.

 

[Old Witch]

To say clomid fails to maintain htpa function on a proper cycle is incorrect. It worked for me. And others, with blood work to prove.

For some reason it doesn't work every time though.

It also doesn’t work every time for pct either. Lots of horror stories I have read over the years.

 

[Jinsun]

To say clomid fails to maintain htpa function on a proper cycle is incorrect. It worked for me. And others, with blood work to prove.

500 Test, 400 deca, 50 tbol, for instace... no way a serm is going to keep hpta up. If that happens either; the gear is fake lol, or the person is a mutant or something XD

I've seen no bloods from proper cycles with a serm that prove this. All I've seen are oral only cycles, and even then test was always shuttdown.

Your 400 primo and 50 dbol is the only reference I've got. And even that must have probably been a fluke or something.

Literally haven't seen one blood test that had non severly suppressed test, ona an oral only cycle. And those are mild DHT's, compared to test, that shuts down the most.

 

[RickyBlobby]

LGD is known to shut you down hard. Hiddengains took it for 12 weeks with 10mg nolva here and there and his T stayed in normal range. Several other word of mouth reports of nuts not atrophying on cycle.

Then Bbiceps ran it with car and got shut down hard ( although he said he felt 100% fine on cycle and during PCT.

It works but it's hit or miss.

 

[Jinsun]

We can and we have had a debated about this ad nauseum, so imo no point in beating up this horse any more. Let's just let people do - what they want to do. Also, this thread is not about a serm on cycle, we have one of those already XD

 

[Jinsun]

LGD is known to shut you down hard. Hiddengains took it for 12 weeks with 10mg nolva here and there and his T stayed in normal range. Several other word of mouth reports of nuts not atrophying on cycle.

Then Bbiceps ran it with car and got shut down hard ( although he said he felt 100% fine on cycle and during PCT.

It works but it's hit or miss.

SARMs are also really ubiquitous. They are often times faked, really underdosed and we have still no idea how they work. Osta at 25 shut me down hard.

If somebody had subjectively big balls on cycle doesn't mean a lot. Balls can be big, but still not produce test ... Also, the subjectivity part and no bloods ...

 

[Old Witch]

I can’t wait for they poor ******* who reads this thing, and does all this (or doesn’t do) and ends up as a performance art version of Bloodhound Gang ‘Hooray for Boobies’

Hey let’s all take a big dose of a 19-nor and not take any caber or raloxifene. Let’s also go **** a bunch of hookers without a rubber.

 

[Old Witch]

On a Deca ONLY cycle, yeah sure, no prolactin control works.

Add test and you’re gonna grow tits.

 

[Godstrength]

Spurfy it may be working for you at the moment. I believe this is your first experience w 19nors? And youre running a serm w mast?

So I could see this working for a while because the serm will block any excess estrogen from docking and mast may help to control regular estrogen. However 19nors do produce a whole different type of sides which are prolactin related. Its why people shoot white liquid out of their nipples on them lol seriously tho in my experience 19nor estrogen problems sneak up on you and once they do its too late meaning once they show themselves youre in a ****load of trouble trying to bail yourself out and get it in control. When that happens w 19nors its not as easy as take an ai. It's serm and caber or prami or youre fd.

I hate 19nors the gains are so great but the sides suck worse than any steroid ive ever run. Tren, deca, trest all of them. I dont think eq works the same way as traditional 19nors thats why it acts a little differently. (I could look up what exactly causes that). I'm tempted to try npp as I have some sitting here but I keep going back to the sides and so it sits.

I would like to see your bloods w test levels as well as estrogen. It would be interesting.

Also if I remember correctly you were supposed to post bloods on your torem and anavar (and I think you were on low dose test also) run last time? Wondering what happened to those bloods that were going to prove it the last time You were on and if you ever had them done?

 

[Old Witch]

Spurfy it may be working for you at the moment. I believe this is your first experience w 19nors? And youre running a serm w mast?

So I could see this working for a while because the serm will block any excess estrogen from docking and mast may help to control regular estrogen. However 19nors do produce a whole different type of sides which are prolactin related. Its why people shoot white liquid out of their nipples on them lol seriously tho in my experience 19nor estrogen problems sneak up on you and once they do its too late meaning once they show themselves youre in a ****load of trouble trying to bail yourself out and get it in control. When that happens w 19nors its not as easy as take an ai. It's serm and caber or prami or youre fd.

I hate 19nors the gains are so great but the sides suck worse than any steroid ive ever run. Tren, deca, trest all of them. I dont think eq works the same way as traditional 19nors thats why it acts a little differently. (I could look up what exactly causes that). I'm tempted to try npp as I have some sitting here but I keep going back to the sides and so it sits.

I would like to see your bloods w test levels as well as estrogen. It would be interesting.

Also if I remember correctly you were supposed to post bloods on your torem and anavar (and I think you were on low dose test also) run last time? Wondering what happened to those bloods that were going to prove it the last time You were on? I could be wrong just curious

EQ is not a 19-nor, it’s non methylated dianabol. A plain testosterone, just double bonded at both 4-5 and 1-2. Taking away the 4-5 double bond (called 5a reduction) leaves us with DHB or 1-Testosterone.

 

[Old Witch]

The deal with EQ is it can aromatize easily, but cannot 5a reduce very easily at all, and it’s 5a reduced byproduct does not have the traditional benefits of dht.

 

[Godstrength]

EQ is not a 19-nor, it’s non methylated dianabol. A plain testosterone, just double bonded at both 4-5 and 1-2. Taking away the 4-5 double bond (called 5a reduction) leaves us with DHB or 1-Testosterone.

Youre right my bad.... I always lack remembrance on what exactly eq is lol as well as 1test cyp dbol is an alteration too correct?

 

[Old Witch]

Also, and I’ve been holding this in: Proviron absolutely does not control estrogen in any way whatsoever. That is a pure myth. It does lower SHBG, and that’s all. It’s worthless. Not even notably anabolic in women. But too androgenic for a woman.

 

[Old Witch]

Youre right my bad.... I always lack remembrance on what exactly eq is lol as well as 1test cyp dbol is an alteration too correct?

Yessir, dianabol is oral EQ. As you can tell just by that merit alone it’s highly susceptible to aromatase. It’s already halfway aromatized is why.

 

[Jinsun]

Yessir, dianabol is oral EQ. As you can tell just by that merit alone it’s highly susceptible to aromatase. It’s already halfway aromatized is why.

Yup.

But the methyl part of dbol makes it a whole other compound though...

 

[Old Witch]

Yup.

But the methyl part of dbol makes it a whole other compound though...

Oh **** yeah. That’s where 100% of the differences come from, of which there are many many. EQ is pretty much one of the weakest steroids ever, dianabol is ****ing dianabol. Very strong.

 

[Spurfy]

Spurfy it may be working for you at the moment. I believe this is your first experience w 19nors? And youre running a serm w mast?

Yes. Running TE, NPP, Mast P, Clomid and Naltrexone. No AI, no dopamine agonists, not even B6. The Clomid is solely to prevent hard shutdown, which happens with 19-nors because they bind ER-a in the hypothalamus and their concentration in serum is going to be tens of times larger than the concentration of E2. I usually run Torem as my SERM, but I didn't want a SERM with any anti-gyno effect, that's why I chose Clomid for this run -- I want to see if the Masteron alone is capable of handling any gyno issues. I do have Ralox, Torem, and Aromasin on standby if needed, because I'm not a reckless idiot.

So I could see this working for a while because the serm will block any excess estrogen from docking and mast may help to control regular estrogen.

As explained above, the SERM is solely to prevent hard HPG-axis shutdown. If I wanted a gyno-protection SERM, I'd have run Torem.

However 19nors do produce a whole different type of sides which are prolactin related.

This idea that 19-nors raise prolactin is utterly without any scientific proof, at least none that I could find. Progestins (which 19-nors are) inhibit prolactin release.

Its why people shoot white liquid out of their nipples on them lol seriously tho in my experience 19nor estrogen problems sneak up on you and once they do its too late meaning once they show themselves youre in a ****load of trouble trying to bail yourself out and get it in control. When that happens w 19nors its not as easy as take an ai. It's serm and caber or prami or youre fd.

I've had zero issues so far and currently running NPP at 600/week.

Masteron seems to be more than capable of blocking the pathways that would cause gyno or lactation from NPP. People don't understand the relationship between DHT and E2. You can have high E2 levels but if DHT levels are also high you're not going to have any high E2 sides because DHT inhibits the downstream firing and gene expression that E2 evokes.

There's a reason Masteron used to be used for breast cancer. The only reason it's not used today is because it's way off-patent.

I hate 19nors the gains are so great but the sides suck worse than any steroid ive ever run. Tren, deca, trest all of them. I dont think eq works the same way as traditional 19nors thats why it acts a little differently. (I could look up what exactly causes that). I'm tempted to try npp as I have some sitting here but I keep going back to the sides and so it sits.

This has been my smoothest cycle ever.

I would like to see your bloods w test levels as well as estrogen. It would be interesting.

I'll get bloods the last week: T, E2, PRL, CBC, CMP, LH, FSH, SHBG

Also if I remember correctly you were supposed to post bloods on your torem and anavar (and I think you were on low dose test also) run last time? Wondering what happened to those bloods that were going to prove it the last time You were on and if you ever had them done?

I didn't get them. I have a profound phobia of venipunture and I have to be given conscious sedation for blood draws. Yeah, go ahead and laugh... I can pin my quads all day long but the moment that alcohol wipe touches the inside of my elbow I get woozy. When that needle goes into my vein without conscious sedation any number of bad things happen.