Tbol solo

Renew1 said:
Brother, "Deca alone" isn't Test.... And doesn't include Test.
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I know it isn't test; that was another example I just put. I'm talking running **** that doesn't include test and how some people are able to keep gains without using test as a base. Im just saying many people are saying you need to run test with everything you do whether its tren, deca, orals, super suppressive sarms like S23, etc. My main thing is; why test for "keepable gains" why is it that it needs to be run with everything?
 
50Magnum said:
I know it isn't test; that was another example I just put. I'm talking running **** that doesn't include test and how some people are able to keep gains without using test as a base. Im just saying many people are saying you need to run test with everything you do whether its tren, deca, orals, super suppressive sarms like S23, etc. My main thing is; why test for "keepable gains" why is it that it needs to be run with everything?
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Ohhhhhh......
I misunderstood. I actually thought that you were taking the opposite stance.

Well, my personal experience is... Test (or a "Test base") on a oral cycle helps me during the cycle. But I don't think that is necessarily helps me to keep the gains after the cycle.
But all compounds are different (Test included). And each is different in terms of keepable mass.
I will say that Test isn't at the tops of my list (or bottom) for keepable gains.
 
Renew1 said:
Ohhhhhh......
I misunderstood. I actually thought that you were taking the opposite stance.

Well, my personal experience is... Test (or a "Test base") on a oral cycle helps me during the cycle. But I don't think that is necessarily helps me to keep the gains after the cycle.
But all compounds are different (Test included). And each is different in terms of keepable mass.
I will say that Test isn't at the tops of my list (or bottom) for keepable gains.
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What would you rank in keepable gains wise comparing different anabolics? I know with D Bol most of the weight is water and usually you lose like 60% of the gains, T Bol I've seen people sustain literally everything if they are under their genetic limit.
 
50Magnum said:
One question though; if you did run test with the tbol; wouldn't you hold your gains better pct than say doing tbol and a serm. Anyone who has experience please chime in; the tbol itself I believe won't really atrophy your testicles more than say running test with it; but then again thats what HCG is for.
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Why would running test mean you keep more gains? Longer cycles keep more gains because it's actually more muscle and not the quick glycogen and water fill up. There's nothing magical about any steroid that keeps more gains. What it comes down to is how much real muscle you built vs. Water. When ppl say you don't keep dbol gains there just retarded. You might have put on 20lbs in 4 weeks but it's not 20lbs of muscle. So they come off and loose 12-15lbs of bloat and they think they lost there gains.
 
And on a side note, no gains will be kept from any cycle unless you continue to work hard and eat enough food to maintain your bodyweight
 
Smont said:
Why would running test mean you keep more gains? Longer cycles keep more gains because it's actually more muscle and not the quick glycogen and water fill up. There's nothing magical about any steroid that keeps more gains. What it comes down to is how much real muscle you built vs. Water. When ppl say you don't keep dbol gains there just retarded. You might have put on 20lbs in 4 weeks but it's not 20lbs of muscle. So they come off and loose 12-15lbs of bloat and they think they lost there gains.
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Exactly i thought nobody understood this haha.
 
50Magnum said:
See the norm with everyone is holding gains when comparing orals vs running test. I've seen a thread where someone just ran deca alone with insulin gained 42 lbs; no pct(just took 5 grams of taurine everyday) and kept 35lbs or so after months down the line, but was also really skinny(didnt look like he worked out much). I might just make a thread on this so people can chime in; almost everyone on most of the "anabolic" forums from BOP, Promuscle, SST, Mesorx all preach that running your first cycle especially to keep the most gains test is the best to start with or having a base of test is the way to go.
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Well I'm gonna break this down for you and try to do it as simple as possible.

Oral cycle is recommended 4 to 6 weeks.. Why? Because when prohormone arrived the companies selling them doesn't wanna be sued by you taking them year round and die. Now most phs are actually aas and they are still sold under pH. Most real aas or old school aas is actually just as damaging as anything you'd buy legally and aas like anadrol has been prescribed for medicin at really high doses for months..

I'm telling you this because the 4 to 6 weeks is a problem when comparing to injectibles because if you run a Cycle 4 weeks and compare it to 12-20 weeks of test you'll have a 2 to 3 times as much time to work out, to eat, sleep etc.

Orals are quick and will put on mass faster than any injectible but the gains will also slow down faster.

Last thing. You can definitely add 40lbs during 12 weeks.. It's possible but it's not gonna be 40lbs of muscle with or without insulin. People who gain 10 lbs during a cycle is realistic. You can still look amazing compared to before but it won't be all muscle.

Now using insulin for a year with aas will be very beneficial not to add fat while Gaining a lot of weight.
 
Smont said:
Why would running test mean you keep more gains? Longer cycles keep more gains because it's actually more muscle and not the quick glycogen and water fill up. There's nothing magical about any steroid that keeps more gains. What it comes down to is how much real muscle you built vs. Water. When ppl say you don't keep dbol gains there just retarded. You might have put on 20lbs in 4 weeks but it's not 20lbs of muscle. So they come off and loose 12-15lbs of bloat and they think they lost there gains.
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Well I know what you mean majority of dbol is just water/glycogen which I don't see the reasoning why one would run it if all that weight ends up going away anyway when coming off it; I can see it being useful powerlifting though cause that extra water looks to be good for quick strength. Yeah even with creatine; when I was in highschool running Gaspari Size On I literally would put on 8-10 lbs of bloat in a months supply; my bench would go from 225lb 8-10 reps to 255lbs 6-8 reps; but then when I came off it I got like 255lbs for like 3-5 reps, my original 225lbs would still be higher than before though like 12 rep range.
 
50Magnum said:
Well I know what you mean majority of dbol is just water/glycogen which I don't see the reasoning why one would run it if all that weight ends up going away anyway when coming off it; I can see it being useful powerlifting though cause that extra water looks to be good for quick strength. Yeah even with creatine; when I was in highschool running Gaspari Size On I literally would put on 8-10 lbs of bloat in a months supply; my bench would go from 225lb 8-10 reps to 255lbs 6-8 reps; but then when I came off it I got like 255lbs for like 3-5 reps, my original 225lbs would still be higher than before though like 12 rep range.
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It's best used to start a injectable cycle. Why with the bloat? Because it blows you up fast and those quick strength gains help you push more weight which will help you build more muscle in the long run. That being said , if your diet is on point you don't bloat that much.
 
Renew1 said:
Brother, "Deca alone" isn't Test.... And doesn't include Test.
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He knows that. He didn’t claim deca is or has test. He’s saying other people claim test is the way to go for your first cycle, especially if you’re trying to keep as much gains as possible, but he’s heard of a guy who ran deca solo for his first cycle and held onto 35 pounds.

I believe that people are too dogmatic with the idea that test, or some kind of test base, has to be included in every cycle. In the 1970’s, bodybuilders thought test was a sh!tty drug because it has a 1:1 anobolic to androgenic ratio, so they didn’t touch it.
 
YoungThor said:
He knows that. He didn’t claim deca is or has test. He’s saying other people claim test is the way to go for your first cycle, especially if you’re trying to keep as much gains as possible, but he’s heard of a guy who ran deca solo for his first cycle and held onto 35 pounds.

I believe that people are too dogmatic with the idea that test, or some kind of test base, has to be included in every cycle. In the 1970’s, bodybuilders thought test was a sh!tty drug because it has a 1:1 anobolic to androgenic ratio, so they didn’t touch it.
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My bad, I see you already cleared up the misunderstanding.
 
YoungThor said:
He knows that. He didn’t claim deca is or has test. He’s saying other people claim test is the way to go for your first cycle, especially if you’re trying to keep as much gains as possible, but he’s heard of a guy who ran deca solo for his first cycle and held onto 35 pounds.

I believe that people are too dogmatic with the idea that test, or some kind of test base, has to be included in every cycle. In the 1970’s, bodybuilders thought test was a sh!tty drug because it has a 1:1 anobolic to androgenic ratio, so they didn’t touch it.
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Yeah, I got that. He and I discussed it above.

I like to include Test with most of my cycles, but it is far from my favorite.
 
Guys in the 70s probably didnt PCT with SERMs, either. This "argument" that guys in the 70s did or didnt do something advocated for now has little going for it prima facie.

Me, I personally see there are both pros and cons to using (or not) a "test base". But, Id nearly always lean towards doing so cos typically moar gainz and better feelz.
 
The best analogy I’ve heard regarding PCT: “You don’t have to wipe your ass after taking a ****, but it’s probably a good idea”, sums it up for me
 
whats this dermacrine I'm seeing in the threads though regarding it replacing injectable test though? Does it really enhance ones feeling like Test, and can it be ran with orals? I'm thinking maybe provirion is better with the orals when it comes to energy level and libido but see it as another suppressor to your Test even though it doesn't cause shutdown supposedly.
 
50Magnum said:
whats this dermacrine I'm seeing in the threads though regarding it replacing injectable test though? Does it really enhance ones feeling like Test, and can it be ran with orals? I'm thinking maybe provirion is better with the orals when it comes to energy level and libido but see it as another suppressor to your Test even though it doesn't cause shutdown supposedly.
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Dermacrine is transdermal DHEA which is a precursor hormone to testosterone. It can convert to many things though, so when you apply it you are basically hoping the majority turns into test in the body. It does enhance well-being but doesn’t add any gains. There are other hormonal ingredients I didn’t mention as well. It’s a good test base for lighter cycles but I highly doubt it would suffice if you were running something extremely strong like deca or tren.
 
50Magnum

I’ve heard proviron somehow increases free test, which basically goes against all common logic. But I believe it may be true. But it’s basically DHT, which means it comes with a decent probability that you’ll experience some shedding if you take a high enough dose. And it’s an oral steroid so it carries cholesterol and liver health risks. In my opinion dermacrine is a much safer alternative test base.
 
Nac said:
Guys in the 70s probably didnt PCT with SERMs, either. This "argument" that guys in the 70s did or didnt do something advocated for now has little going for it prima facie.

Me, I personally see there are both pros and cons to using (or not) a "test base". But, Id nearly always lean towards doing so cos typically moar gainz and better feelz.
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I agree. We shouldn’t emulate everything they did in the 70’s. But I’m pretty sure they weren’t experiencing low test symptoms on cycle like we assume they must’ve. Dbol basically worked as their test base.
 
I read a thread on another forum (not a very good one) while researching. It was a guy asking for advice on a planned tbol only cycle and predictably his questions for ignored and he got a ton of abuse for daring not to do the 500mg test e/c cycle you're "supposed" to do for your first time.

He ignored them and posted back with his results. If he's to be believed, he did 4 weeks on, gained 10 lbs and kept 6 after PCT. Obviously no-one came back to admit that were wrong or apologise.

I've seen the same pattern a bunch of times; someone asks for advice on a oral only cycle, gets shouted down and told they're an idiot and won't keep any gains and then proves them wrong. Which makes me conclude these people have no idea what they're talking about. What are they even basing this on? Have they done failed oral only cycles themselves or just mindlessly parroting the same broscience that's been said before?
 
BarryScott said:
I read a thread on another forum (not a very good one) while researching. It was a guy asking for advice on a planned tbol only cycle and predictably his questions for ignored and he got a ton of abuse for daring not to do the 500mg test e/c cycle you're "supposed" to do for your first time.

He ignored them and posted back with his results. If he's to be believed, he did 4 weeks on, gained 10 lbs and kept 6 after PCT. Obviously no-one came back to admit that were wrong or apologise.

I've seen the save pattern a bunch of times; someone asks for advice on a oral only cycle, gets shouted down and told they're an idiot and won't keep any gains and then proves them wrong. Which makes me conclude these people have no idea what they're talking about. What are they even basing this on? Have they done failed oral only cycles themselves or just mindlessly parroting the same broscience that's been said before?
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They’re parroting the same old bro science. People who do oral only cycles themselves usually report decent results.

Parroting the same old bro science over and over again is a major issue on these types of forums. Basically all the top bodybuilders and fitness guru types warn against the narrow-mindedness of the internet community. This forum has to be one of the best communities out there for this type of information though.

I honestly like the physiques of of the 1950’s up until the 1970’s the best and they were really just experimenting at that time. They didn’t have the internet and all these resources we have but they got awesome results. Even though people want to create these ridiculous guidelines, like you have to do 500mg of test as your first cycle or something dumb like that, it’s up to us to learn and do what we think suits our interests. You got to sift through all that bro science and only retain the important shyt.
 
Yeah, that's why I joined this forum where people seem thoughtful and open minded as opposed to the others where your first cycle has to be 12 weeks of pinning test, or you have to be at least 200lbs and benching 8 plates before you think about doing AAS, etc.
 
yea to be honest thats why I am more into this community now when it comes to "anabolics" because of different views; actually the UK bodybuilding forums are kind of like that too; ****ing brits like to run all types of **** even if its an oral only cycle like dbol and winny LMFAO. But yeah imo I think running ****ing 500 mg of test e for 16 weeks has to be the stupidest ****ing **** you can do for your body in terms of recovering afterwards unless you want to cycle on and off for the rest of your life or start taking bodybuilding really seriously. 500 mg of test a week for 16 weeks will cause your body havoc afterwards in my opinion even if its your first cycle(if I did it I would hcg throughout for 16 weeks with AI and then probably even shoot 100mcg Triptorelin then go on Clomid/Nolva for 6 weeks). Rather have a beginner do 200mg of test or even a short ester of test and run it for 8-12 weeks rather than 16. Less gains but also less side effects afterwards. I read through a thread this ****ing kid did 500mg of test every week for his first cycle for 16-20 weeks. He did shoot hcg on last 2 weeks of cycle then 2 weeks later hoped on Nolva and Clomid but also ran an AI for some reason PCT and really ****ed himself up. Long story short 4 months after PCT kid's test, LH/FSH are still way below his normal baseline and he cant even get it up or have good energy.
 
BarryScott said:
I read a thread on another forum (not a very good one) while researching. It was a guy asking for advice on a planned tbol only cycle and predictably his questions for ignored and he got a ton of abuse for daring not to do the 500mg test e/c cycle you're "supposed" to do for your first time.

He ignored them and posted back with his results. If he's to be believed, he did 4 weeks on, gained 10 lbs and kept 6 after PCT. Obviously no-one came back to admit that were wrong or apologise.

I've seen the same pattern a bunch of times; someone asks for advice on a oral only cycle, gets shouted down and told they're an idiot and won't keep any gains and then proves them wrong. Which makes me conclude these people have no idea what they're talking about. What are they even basing this on? Have they done failed oral only cycles themselves or just mindlessly parroting the same broscience that's been said before?
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yeah someone on eroids his second cycle did like 50 mg var and 60 mg of tbol for 8 weeks or so got his bloods checked and his t levels were still in the 200s also was running n2guard. People literally bashed him so hard because of it; but supposedly he kept 80% of the 16lbs he gained. Also another guy posted kid had hemoglobin so was prescribed anadrol by the doctor in highschool; had to take 200mg a day for I think like 8-12 weeks went from like 133 lbs to 189lbs than after he came off he ended up at 168lbs much much bigger than before. So really the typical "beginner cycle" is based on ones genetics, training, protocol.
 
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