Straight sets versus ramping weight
- Thread starter AntM1564
- Start date
3clipseGT
On my grind
Overall the load in the straight set would be marginally higher as you are lifting heavier weights. Do I think this is enough to really make a difference? No I dont.
In my opinion and in my experience a variety of training methods put together is really what creates a great environment for hypertrophy, density, strength etc.
Dustin07
Legend
I agree with this. To build upon it, I think building strength through your hypertrophy training is also important. Don't walk in and do a 3x10 db curl at 70lbs every time. work those numbers up.
I also like massive drop sets when doing isolation movements for hypertrophy training. I actually prefer 'ramping' down via drop sets over ramping up. I'll do lighter warm up sets to get to working weight, knock out my working weight work, then drop set for the arm numbing pump till I can't take my shirt off over my head. that, to me, is more effective than ramping up and not being able to even hit your training weight because you exhausted yourself at lower numbers.
AlexPowell
Well-known member
The problem with ramping sets is most people take jumps that are too big so they don't get their volume in
The problem with straight sets is that it's boring
The problem with straight sets is that it's boring
Whisky
Well-known member
Seen many studies that ultimately state volume is the main factor. Whether in ramped sets or straight sets. Whether using low rep/high weight or high rep/low weight it makes no difference.
Problem with those studies is that they normally set out with a very tightly defined hypothesis they are trying to prove and test it in an isolated way (I.e which increases muscle mass more 5 sets of 10 at 100 or 4 sets of 20 at 62.5, they take 10 guys, each do one or the other on leg extension for 4 weeks with measurements before and after. They conclude it’s the same). Too many other factors such as which can you recover quicker from (and therefore which lets you train more), which creates the greater boost in test which would increase muscle mass more elsewhere on any normal split etc....
As above I also think variety is important. I like layne Norton’s PHAT program for that reason, hits most muscles with lower rep and higher rep work in the week.
More specifically in regard to ramping I believe a lot of the rationale behind it is around the quality of the reps, I.e most people can really focus for one really heavy set and make it great whereas do you maintain the same quality on a 3 sets of 10 at relatively high weight. Ramping also means you do rep with higher weight for one set which can have a greater impact on the cns.
Sooo many variables though, which do you feel works best for you?
Problem with those studies is that they normally set out with a very tightly defined hypothesis they are trying to prove and test it in an isolated way (I.e which increases muscle mass more 5 sets of 10 at 100 or 4 sets of 20 at 62.5, they take 10 guys, each do one or the other on leg extension for 4 weeks with measurements before and after. They conclude it’s the same). Too many other factors such as which can you recover quicker from (and therefore which lets you train more), which creates the greater boost in test which would increase muscle mass more elsewhere on any normal split etc....
As above I also think variety is important. I like layne Norton’s PHAT program for that reason, hits most muscles with lower rep and higher rep work in the week.
More specifically in regard to ramping I believe a lot of the rationale behind it is around the quality of the reps, I.e most people can really focus for one really heavy set and make it great whereas do you maintain the same quality on a 3 sets of 10 at relatively high weight. Ramping also means you do rep with higher weight for one set which can have a greater impact on the cns.
Sooo many variables though, which do you feel works best for you?
Dustin07
Legend
Totally agree with everything you said.
franks009
Member
This. I feel like if I did 5 sets of 10 reps a piece I just wasted a lift. If I'm hitting 10 I'm 100% going up the next set. I feel I gain strength way faster then hitting lifts day after day at the same weight.
I dont do none of that logging sh!t or anything either. I pull up, set the weight. I hit 10 reps I go up. Simple.
AlexPowell
Well-known member
From reading a lot on this forum and online, people overthink things wayyy too much. Reddit is the worse, sweet jesus
BlockBuilder
Well-known member
I do straight sets all the time. If I’m aiming for 4 sets of 10 reps I’ll increase the weight once I hit 4 sets of 10 reps. It’s merely a goal to obtain. I log everything and keep a timer for rest in between sets. The weight should be just challenging enough that you can reach 10 reps with a rep or two in the tank. Each consecutive set should be harder obviously. I have no issue if I’m lifting and end up hitting let’s say 10,10,9 7. The next time I lift I attempt to make that 10,10,10,8. Once I hit all my reps in my sets I increase the weight. It’s a lot more challenging if you time your rest periods IMO. It’s also seems pretty hard to judge your progress without a log. I’m not sure how people do that. I like to know if I’m plateauing and Why. A quick look at my log and notes shows me exactly what changes I need to make if I end up stalling. Sometimes I will ramp up or even down sets. It really all depends on my goals, what benefits me more etc. progressive overload matters more than anything else along with CNS and connective tissue preservation. Overuse injuries are something I’ve had to deal with unfortunately but I’ve been able to remedy that pretty well by leaving my ego outside of the gym
John Smeton
Legend
I say do both. I like to cycle my intensity where when im wanting to put on muscle I try to get stronger either in
1. reps
2. Weight used
so I might do this Intense phase for six weeks than take a three week break where im doing different exercises, angles, less weight and more reps. This gives my body a break from the stress Ive been doing the past six weeks. and maintains. You can do this maintenance training for months on end until your ready to up the intensity.
When maintaining muscle its nice to keep training fun , trying different exercises. hitting from different angles because the goal isnt to get stronger really, its just to maintain.
1. reps
2. Weight used
so I might do this Intense phase for six weeks than take a three week break where im doing different exercises, angles, less weight and more reps. This gives my body a break from the stress Ive been doing the past six weeks. and maintains. You can do this maintenance training for months on end until your ready to up the intensity.
When maintaining muscle its nice to keep training fun , trying different exercises. hitting from different angles because the goal isnt to get stronger really, its just to maintain.
franks009
Member
I see people all the time writing stuff down, looking at their stop watch every 5 seconds to see when there "allowed" to do the next set. GTFO
If people focused more on moving weight instead of their penmanship maybe they'll see results.
AlexPowell
Well-known member
Yeah I definitely blame reddit for this. There are a few younger guys in my gym that come in and do 3 sets of 5 on squats bench and rows, then leave the gym. The weights they're using, they could/should definitely be doing 10 sets of 5.
jmero2
Active member
I couldn't agree more.. I've been using a variable split system for 20+ years and I love it. I really don't have many injuries either. I had a minor tear in my rotator cuff but that was from playing football with my son....
My wife and I have him utilizing a similar split with lower volume, the kid is strong like bull.........
Dustin07
Legend
I guess it all just depends on what your goals are. If you're just "exercising".... then ok.... But I mean, I'm guilty of going too far on the other side, straining so hard on working sets that I risk over training regularly. it's always been a fault of mine.
AlexPowell
Well-known member
Yeah and I guarantee you have a lot more gains than most people for it
Whisky
Well-known member
Definitely better to be that side of the equation imo
BlockBuilder
Well-known member
Are you really trying to say that keeping a log is a bad idea? Lol
BlockBuilder
Well-known member
I guess these are the results keeping a log gets me as a 32 year old natural. Clearly I’m focusing on my penmanship way too much and not hitting the weights hard enough Invalid Link RemovedInvalid Link Removed
Attachments
Dustin07
Legend
Oh definitely, I have been happy with my progress, I just know I probably could eliminate 6-8 weeks a year of spinning my wheels through fatigue with better deload planning.
agreed
I highly doubt anyone is saying that. I've kept a log every day, every workout, for over 6 years. But it's pretty damn easy for me to remember what I did at the gym when I get home to log it.
AlexPowell
Well-known member
Nope, I didn't say that at all.
franks009
Member
Do you really need to keep a log every single day? Like I'm sure u have been doing this for a while, you can't just pick up where you left off? Maybe people just have trash memories idk.
AlexPowell
Well-known member
Imagine being so insecure you have to post a picture of your pubes if a random person online says you should focus more on training than obsessive planning
franks009
Member
Yes I'm sorry if none of my comments have swayed that way. But that's exactly what I mean. People just obsess way to much on things that don't matter that much.
AntM1564
Legend
What's wrong with that? You do realize there are really good training techniques that are out there which a person does need time time their rest, right? In addition, lets say I get 3 sets of 8 with a given weight this week with 90 second rest periods and then the following week, I use the same weight, get the same reps on the same number of sets, but rest shorter between sets; it's not all about weight.
Also, what's wrong with writing down one's routine? I do it. I like to see if I am making progress. This dictates accessory work and progression over time. Some of the strongest and biggest people I know keep a log, even if it is only of their main lifts. You sound like a jerk stuck in his ways to be honest, and judgmental.
How do you know they should be doing 10 sets of 5, maybe they are following a routine that calls for that. I also have friends that powerlift that will come in the gym and just do two main exercises and leave. There is nothing wrong with that. In addition, maybe those kids only had a set time for their workout that day and needed to get in and out. Better than missing the day. Sounds like you are focusing on others too much instead of your own routine if you can tell us what others are doing.
AntM1564
Legend
I can't speak for BlockBuilder but i keep a log to see progression. I wouldn't say I have a bad memory. More like I have more important things to remember than what I did in the gym a week ago.
What difference does it make? He is obviously in contest prep in those photos. To get that lean, no matter what one weighs is a feat. Not to mention, if he is 145 in those photos, he isn't a skinny 145. He is a lean 145 with muscle. I can tell from your posts you would find anything to nit pick. If he was on gear and a lean 220, you'd probably call him out for that, if he had a lean powerlifting physique, you'd probably tell him he needs to cut. You won't admit to it, but one can tell by your posts you'd look for something to bring him down.
Insecure how? He was trying to prove a point that was brought up by frank. The point being that people who write stuff down focus more on that then lifting and thus their training suffers. He was proving him wrong. But like most posts, it went over your head, as usual.
Dustin07
Legend
I had a hard time reading your quote because it's right at his pube level.
franks009
Member
I lift at a gold's and there's dozens who compete and even ifbb pros and not one of them keeps a notebook and pen on them. You do you I don't care what it is, I just don't see why logging is needed to see progress?
Also I feel there can also be a down side to them. People will log, see progress, but then one day they can't lift the same weight they did last week or whatever. Then there like oh damn something's not right and they will change there diet or routine.
Nooo, there's just good days and bad days. Your not always gonna feel 100%. Progress is changes in the mirror and or lifting more than u did last time. Log isn't really thaaat necessary.
Whisky
Well-known member
I’m guessing a few of those without a paper and pen are simply using an app on the phone.
I also don’t think anyone is saying that having a bad day means a jerk reaction, most of us are experienced to know that you can’t just expect to overload every week (off cycle anyway) and progression would be viewed in meso or even macro cycles.
Personally I like to track the weight and rest intervals for just my main compound (rest intervals are of course less important if the goal is pure strength). It’s simply fact that progression can be based on a number of factors and that includes lifting the same weight in a shorter time frame as well as more weight in the same time.
Sure you don’t need to log workouts, I tend to go by feel for accessory work and when I’m not following any program for a spell but if you want to make the most of your training why wouldn’t you log at least the key lifts?
Necessary and optimal are different questions.......
AlexPowell
Well-known member
I know that because I see them train every day, I see how hard they train and I've coached and competed in powerlifting for more than 5 years now.
Definitely not focusing too much on others, it's my habit as a coach
AntM1564
Legend
Couldn't have said it better myself
How can you tell how hard one trains? You cannot feel their muscles under whatever load they are using. If you're just going off sweat or hoe red they turn, that can happen to people from the first couple of reps. And if that is what you notice, I stand by the point you're focusing on them too much.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
That’s a good point. Some people just end their sets before they show outward signs of struggling, like noises, color, or even slowing or degradation of form; it doesn’t mean they aren’t working hard and lifting properly. Conversely, someone can turn beet read and shout on the first rep of every set haha. Maybe he knows something we don’t, like people taking 10 minute rests to text and hit on people between clearly-not-powerlifting sets?
Especially if they’re using decent weight; they had to make progress to get to a decent strength somehow, and progress is more important than simple outwardly expressed exertion.
AlexPowell
Well-known member
You're just guessing and assuming something without any knowledge of the situation at hand. You're doing this for no other reason than to be argumentative. Sorry "AntM1564" but I'm not going to take the bait
Dustin07
Legend
It's pretty easy to tell how hard people are working. There is a such thing as perceived exertion and different people may look different through their sessions but if a guy knocks out his 3x5 squat day at the speed of light without so much as breaking a sweat, taking a breath, or needing to warm up then you can pretty easily tell who's working harder when you look at the guy next to him pulling against the rack to cinch down his belt, sinks heavily into position to rack the bar, then grinds through his sets and wobbles out of the gym after.
I mean I've seen people who supposedly are power lifters but don't really put effort into it even when compared to the folks who have no idea what they're doing, but are breathing hard and dripping sweat after a set of double unders, wall balls, situps or trx ropes.
ericos_bob
Active member
Well said.