Test/Dien E w/ a DMZ kicker
- Thread starter Sparkss
- Start date
DemntedCowboy
Well-known member
Late but in
Sparkss
Well-known member
1 week weigh in (after today I will just do weigh-ins on Fridays, not after a weekend of no exercise and typically not so good diet 
).
194.2 lbs
Waist: 34.5"
Midsection: 35.5"
BP (Upon waking): 121/70
So weight is about the same, up a little, midsection a little down, but those fluctuations are normal for me.
I see the BP is up a little, but that is not much considering I am a week in. I will check it again later today. I have been checking it throughout the day during the week, but no significant spikes. The hawthorn berry and telmisartan appear to be doing their jobs, combined with my thinking that DMZ is just not that impactful to my BP as some others have been.
Observations: Workouts towards the end of last week were intense. Increased strength, endurance and focus. I powered through higher rep sets than the week before, and in some instances even some additional sets. I also noticed that my joints were much happier. I am not sure if that is a good thing or bad thing. What I mean is if it is an indication that my estro is going up then it is not so good. I have grade 3/4 arthritis in my right shoulder and most likely my right elbow. I know about the shoulder from being scoped for the rotator cuff surgery a couple of years ago. The surgeon told that that there was basically no cartilage in my shoulder socket from the accident (I fell down a flight of stairs). They never scoped my elbow, but I have been having joint pain there for some time since the accident, so that is m best guess. but it didn't hurt last week and I didn't need to take the anti-inflammatory that I normally take.
Since the dien and test are both long esters I can only attribute the improvements in the gym to the DMZ. Other than that I am not experiencing any sides at all. Although after working in the yard for a couple of hours yesterday I felt like a bottomless pit. I just could not get full.
).194.2 lbs
Waist: 34.5"
Midsection: 35.5"
BP (Upon waking): 121/70
So weight is about the same, up a little, midsection a little down, but those fluctuations are normal for me.
I see the BP is up a little, but that is not much considering I am a week in. I will check it again later today. I have been checking it throughout the day during the week, but no significant spikes. The hawthorn berry and telmisartan appear to be doing their jobs, combined with my thinking that DMZ is just not that impactful to my BP as some others have been.
Observations: Workouts towards the end of last week were intense. Increased strength, endurance and focus. I powered through higher rep sets than the week before, and in some instances even some additional sets. I also noticed that my joints were much happier. I am not sure if that is a good thing or bad thing. What I mean is if it is an indication that my estro is going up then it is not so good. I have grade 3/4 arthritis in my right shoulder and most likely my right elbow. I know about the shoulder from being scoped for the rotator cuff surgery a couple of years ago. The surgeon told that that there was basically no cartilage in my shoulder socket from the accident (I fell down a flight of stairs). They never scoped my elbow, but I have been having joint pain there for some time since the accident, so that is m best guess. but it didn't hurt last week and I didn't need to take the anti-inflammatory that I normally take.
Since the dien and test are both long esters I can only attribute the improvements in the gym to the DMZ. Other than that I am not experiencing any sides at all. Although after working in the yard for a couple of hours yesterday I felt like a bottomless pit. I just could not get full.
Sparkss
Well-known member
LOL
Sparkss
Well-known member
The hunger started kicking in yesterday, in a big way. I had read that DMZ can be "carb hungry" and I would have to agree. I have been craving carbs for the last 2+ days, much more so than my normal "carb cravings" (yea, I love my carbs ). My weight was up a couple of lbs this morning (196.2) and my waistline doesn't appear to be significantly increased, but I will measure that tomorrow morning. Yesterday I sort of took the restraints off and just attached a feed bag and ate (and ate and ate). So I honestly expected a bigger impact on my waist than I saw in the mirror this morning. My muscles look and feel fuller, like I just finished working out and still had a pump going. Strength has continued to be there when working out.
I am still on 30mg/day, split 15 morning/evening. I am not noticing any sides, although BP has started creeping up, coming in at 151/81 today, so I took a cialis and will check it again later this afternoon.
). My weight was up a couple of lbs this morning (196.2) and my waistline doesn't appear to be significantly increased, but I will measure that tomorrow morning. Yesterday I sort of took the restraints off and just attached a feed bag and ate (and ate and ate). So I honestly expected a bigger impact on my waist than I saw in the mirror this morning. My muscles look and feel fuller, like I just finished working out and still had a pump going. Strength has continued to be there when working out. I am still on 30mg/day, split 15 morning/evening. I am not noticing any sides, although BP has started creeping up, coming in at 151/81 today, so I took a cialis and will check it again later this afternoon.
Sparkss
Well-known member
one hour later (post- 20mg cialis) and BP is at 133/76. Much more significant drop than I had expected. From what I have read EOD or MWF dosing is common. I will check my BP tomorrow morning and through the weekend to see what I need to do. Seeing the larger drop makes me wonder if my previous high BP reading was something transient and that I maybe didn't need the cialis.
hairygrandpa
Legend
BP spikes could be from pre-workout supps (vasoconstrictors), cialis nullifies it by vasodilation.
Burnfire
Well-known member
Msten raised mine really bad as well.
Sparkss
Well-known member
Sparkss
Well-known member
Msten raises mine fast and hard. The last time in under a week I was hitting 160/90 and that was with some support supps, although not to the level that I prepared this time
. Still, I had expectations of less of a rise with DMZ based on other logs and feedback.
Burnfire
Well-known member
If you weren't already taking something I would say try some Hawthorne berry. I usually start taking 2 weeks prior to my cycle. CEL cycle assist has hawthorne berry in their stuff as well along with celery and many other things. I also heard garlic can help with BP as well.Msten raises mine fast and hard. The last time in under a week I was hitting 160/90 and that was with some support supps, although not to the level that I prepared this time
Edit: I just saw where you said your on Hawthorne berry. Maybe look into adding some garlic as it has a few good benefits.
Sparkss
Well-known member
Thanks, I take garlic extract as part of my normal supplement stack.
. It does have a number of health benefits, both on and off cycle. So definitely great advice, thanks!
Sparkss
Well-known member
When using pharma test at my prescribed TRT dose I use a 27g 1/2" slin needle SubQ. When I am going for a higher dose (and UGL) I use a 26g IM in the VG.
Burnfire
Well-known member
Do you run hcg at all? I was thinking of adding in some dermacrine for the DHEA and Pregnenolone. Also thinking about adding in some zinc.
Sparkss
Well-known member
I don't run HCG, but I am 50 so not much interest in new kids
. I used to use OL Sup3r-DHEA, but I did not notice a huge difference for me. I also read a review of someone here on AM who got blood work before and after a run of the same. I also recall reading that both DHEA and Preg have poor bio-availability.
Burnfire
Well-known member
I don't run HCG, but I am 50 so not much interest in new kids
See I've read mixed reports on both the preg and DHEA. I've seen where some add it and it really helps with their levels and overall well being. Yeah I like the hcg having the hcg I really can tell a difference with it.
Sparkss
Well-known member
weigh in this morning
198.4 lbs
waist 35"
midsection 36 3/4"
So my midsection definitely increased. But I also did read that higher test can lead to some water retention. I went with DMZ for the kicker as I had read it was less likely to add water weight, but some have reported water gain while on it, so hopefully that is all it is, most likely is the case though, as I think it through the weight came on a bit quick to be fat (or muscle for that matter).
I still will try to dial back the calories a bit to see what that does for me.
My workout today was somewhat flat. I just didn't have the energy I had the last couple of workouts and even failed to hit the # of reps on a couple of exercises. I also sweat my *ss off today, which I don't normally do. I mean I normally sweat, but today it was just rolling off of me, so much so that it was even getting in my eyes.
My allergies have been kicking my *ss lately, and I am majorly congested, so maybe that is contributing to my fatigue. Hopefully that is all it is.
BP this afternoon was 138/75, so the cialis appears to still be doing it's job. I know that it is working otherwise as I keep popping wood now. LOL
198.4 lbs
waist 35"
midsection 36 3/4"
So my midsection definitely increased. But I also did read that higher test can lead to some water retention. I went with DMZ for the kicker as I had read it was less likely to add water weight, but some have reported water gain while on it, so hopefully that is all it is, most likely is the case though, as I think it through the weight came on a bit quick to be fat (or muscle for that matter).
I still will try to dial back the calories a bit to see what that does for me.
My workout today was somewhat flat. I just didn't have the energy I had the last couple of workouts and even failed to hit the # of reps on a couple of exercises. I also sweat my *ss off today, which I don't normally do. I mean I normally sweat, but today it was just rolling off of me, so much so that it was even getting in my eyes.
My allergies have been kicking my *ss lately, and I am majorly congested, so maybe that is contributing to my fatigue. Hopefully that is all it is.
BP this afternoon was 138/75, so the cialis appears to still be doing it's job. I know that it is working otherwise as I keep popping wood now. LOL
christ83189
Well-known member
Rocket3015
Legend
I see what you did there!
Outofbody
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I work out 3 to 4 days a week, mainly because my joints won't tolerate much more than that, and I have found that my CNS exhausts quicker as I got older. I know some older guys can still hit the weights 4 to 5 days a week, or maybe more, unfortunately I am not one of them.
Look into hydrocortisone supplementation to help your CNS deal with the extra work/stress. That's what I do in my old age (I'm 40). Otherwise I get the shakes pretty bad after a tough/long workout. I also have to eat gummies/carbs during my workouts.
Sparkss
Well-known member
I noticed this afternoon that I had a little trouble catching my breath to take a big drink of water (I didn't notice it until I went to take a big drink). I have been known to drain an 18oz glass (my normal "carry" glass) in 1 or 2 "gulps" before, but today I cannot drink more than a couple of seconds at a time. I am so frikkin congested, even on multiple anti-histamines (two prescriptions and 2 OTC, all per doctor's instructions) Allergies suxxxxxx!
Sparkss
Well-known member
I drink tons of water normally. When I workout I use a large water jug that I keep a mix of Extend performance and EAAs. I also start my workout with a pre-shake that includes carbs + protein. Although maybe I need to up that a bit more during the DMZ run, as I keep hearing from multiple sources how carb-hungry is can be.
I will look into that hydrocortisone supplementation. I had not heard of that for CNS "revival" before. I know that I cannot workout more than 3 days a week (on or off cycle). Even at 3, if I do full-body workouts all 3 days (MWF) by the time I get to Friday my workout suffers significantly compared to Monday from that week. Just part of getting old *sigh*.
Outofbody
Well-known member
Outofbody
Well-known member
Some people opt for cortisone cream on cycle, and just applying a lot of it, at different times of the day. I just use straight hydrocortisone tabs though and supplement 25mg/day (10mg in AM, then 5mg 3 hrs later and so on, tapered through the day - I save a 5mg dose for pre-workout), which is the limit before you start having a negative effect on the adrenals. 20-25mg is a supporting dose. I supplement with this on and off cycle, year round, and it's had a huge effect on supporting my CNS.
Sparkss
Well-known member
Are the tabs OTC or a prescription? Either way works as my doctor is pretty reasonable, but I figured I would ask. I know that the cream is OTC
but I don't like dealing with a lot of TDs.
Outofbody
Well-known member
Are the tabs OTC or a prescription? Either way works as my doctor is pretty reasonable, but I figured I would ask. I know that the cream is OTC
I order mine from India and treat myself. I did this after a couple of years of research and being active on the anti-aging forum. My doctor knows what I'm doing but just would rather I not talk about it to him. Doctors can't really prescribe hydrocortisone because they don't really believe in "adrenal fatigue" even though it's a real thing.
Sparkss
Well-known member
I took a shower earlier to try to clear out the sinuses, but it didn't help, in fact it felt even harder to breath. I checked my oximeter and I was reading at 98%, a little lower than my normal 99% - 100%, but nothing to be overly concerned with. I went ahead and popped a cardarine about an hour ago I had and I seem to be breathing better now (O2 sats right at the bottom end of 99%). I just hope that I didn't screw my sleep up taking it as late in the afternoon as I did.
The issue with the bronchaid is my BP on cycle. I am trying to stay away from any stims
.
Sparkss
Well-known member
Outofbody
Well-known member
Gotcha. Ok, so I know what I am including in my next order from India
I’ve got some coming now along with some rx quality caber and T3
I tend to get most of my ancilliaries from there.
Pleonastic
Member
I really want to hear more about dienolone acetate. Im thinking about grabbing some. Im not sure when id use it though. Anyone else ran dienolone or desoxy test?
Those 2 things interest me right now.
Those 2 things interest me right now.
Sparkss
Well-known member
Pleonastic
Member
Ok well how did it go?
Sparkss
Well-known member
Sorry, I am a bit behind on my updates.
I dropped the Dien completely and the test back to my TRT dosage. Still continuing ahead with the DMZ.
I traced the shortness of breathe/fatigue back to the dienolone. That is a known side effect to Tren and a possible side effect to dien. Apparently I am very sensitive to 19-nors. I also developed a little gyno, despite no other estro symptoms, another known side effect of 19-nors. I did not have sore or puffy nips, but started to develop small lumps behind my nipples, at the 11 oclock position on my left nip and 2 oclock position on my right.
I had scheduled a bood test for Wednesday, but then cancelled it since my estro levels are not really relevant at this time as I am stopping/reducing my dosages. Plus, 19-nors can cause problems even with estro within range, so knowing if it is in range or not right now is not of that much value. Knowing in a couple of weeks after the clearance period has past is another story.
I also had my TRT doc set up a blood test for just over 2 months from now, and since test cyp has a 44 day clearance window I decided it wasn't worth it to fight the potential effect of higher estro for what would amount to another 2 or 3 weeks of higher test. So I made the decision to drop back.
I started ralox at 60 mg/day and exem at 12.5 mg/EOD on Saturday. There are studies using Ralox to reverse gyno with good results.
Invalid Link Removed
For the DMZ portion of it I had a great workout yesterday. It was a little rough to get going, but once I started moving the weights I didn't want to put them down. I also added more carbs to my diet and my weight is up 7 lbs, with a modest increase in waistline, over the starting weight just a day over 2 weeks ago (my first DMZ dose). BP is manageable, no other sides to really report.
So that is where I stand on the cycle
Once I get everything stabilize and the gyno handled I plan to do a couple of test only cycles to determine what my highest dose (of test) is that I can run w/o an AI. I will probably just start at 300 mg/wk for the first one and work my way up from there and see what the blood work shows.
I dropped the Dien completely and the test back to my TRT dosage. Still continuing ahead with the DMZ.
I traced the shortness of breathe/fatigue back to the dienolone. That is a known side effect to Tren and a possible side effect to dien. Apparently I am very sensitive to 19-nors. I also developed a little gyno, despite no other estro symptoms, another known side effect of 19-nors. I did not have sore or puffy nips, but started to develop small lumps behind my nipples, at the 11 oclock position on my left nip and 2 oclock position on my right.
I had scheduled a bood test for Wednesday, but then cancelled it since my estro levels are not really relevant at this time as I am stopping/reducing my dosages. Plus, 19-nors can cause problems even with estro within range, so knowing if it is in range or not right now is not of that much value. Knowing in a couple of weeks after the clearance period has past is another story.
I also had my TRT doc set up a blood test for just over 2 months from now, and since test cyp has a 44 day clearance window I decided it wasn't worth it to fight the potential effect of higher estro for what would amount to another 2 or 3 weeks of higher test. So I made the decision to drop back.
I started ralox at 60 mg/day and exem at 12.5 mg/EOD on Saturday. There are studies using Ralox to reverse gyno with good results.
Invalid Link Removed
For the DMZ portion of it I had a great workout yesterday. It was a little rough to get going, but once I started moving the weights I didn't want to put them down. I also added more carbs to my diet and my weight is up 7 lbs, with a modest increase in waistline, over the starting weight just a day over 2 weeks ago (my first DMZ dose). BP is manageable, no other sides to really report.
So that is where I stand on the cycle
Once I get everything stabilize and the gyno handled I plan to do a couple of test only cycles to determine what my highest dose (of test) is that I can run w/o an AI. I will probably just start at 300 mg/wk for the first one and work my way up from there and see what the blood work shows.
Sparkss
Well-known member
I am not against taking an AI for a higher test run, I just want to dial in where the sweet spot is for me for test dosages. Then I can work my way up from there, depending on what that # is. On its own I may be able to run it at 500 or higher w/o an AI and then it is a win/win. I just know that an AI can be hard on the body, so the less I have to run the better. but I will always have an AI on hand just in case.
I have some caber tabs. I may give the dien another try later on down the road. But more than likely the next 19-nor I try will be trest, and at a lower dosage to start. Thanks for the advice and feedback!
It seems that I am in the same boat. Live and learn. Depending on how well it treats me these next couple of months I think ralox is going to become a cycle staple for me (for any estro heavy cycles)
Sparkss
Well-known member
I found a study that dosed 120mg/day to a number of older folks (50s - 70s) for an extended period. I think it was like 2 to 4 months. They were looking at it for overall health benefits, but mainly around hormone levels, if I recall. There were a few positives but no negative impacts, outside of it lowering HDL a bit (it lowered cholesterol across the board, LDL and HDL equally). Other than that they found no issues with taking it at the higher doses. So far I have not come across anything to indicate it is not a good staple supp, outside of the cost/expense of it. Then again a 1 year supply at 60mg/day is only $195 (delivered), so in the grand scheme of things I suppose not terribly expensive.
Sparkss
Well-known member
Day 16 Just a quick update.
Yesterday was a rest day. I noticed that the ravenous appetite seems to have subsided yesterday as well. I still have/had an appetite, but it is much more controllable than it has been in the last 7 to 10 days. I woke up this morning with fuller looking muscles and still down about 1.5 lbs from yesterday.
the lumps/gyno appears to be going away as well. The lumps are still there, but they are not sore/tender any longer. And the one under the left nip is more or less gone, but that one was small and sometimes hard to "find" to begin with.
Yesterday was a rest day. I noticed that the ravenous appetite seems to have subsided yesterday as well. I still have/had an appetite, but it is much more controllable than it has been in the last 7 to 10 days. I woke up this morning with fuller looking muscles and still down about 1.5 lbs from yesterday.
the lumps/gyno appears to be going away as well. The lumps are still there, but they are not sore/tender any longer. And the one under the left nip is more or less gone, but that one was small and sometimes hard to "find" to begin with.
Sparkss
Well-known member
Day 19
weight 201.6 (up a little over 8 lbs) waist is 35", midsection 36.5" ~ 36.75" (up a little also, but clothes/pants still fit)
Just a little over 2 weeks left. TBH I have not been that careful about diet, erring on the side of a fair bit more carbs than normal, but only minimal increase in belly fat so far. Workout this morning was pretty good. I had an early morning meeting so I had to really push through the workout in a shorter amount of time than I normally give myself. I was dripping sweat by the time I finally put the weights down.
BP was 140/77 this afternoon, which is not too bad. I am still giving serious thought to upping the DMZ dose for the last 1 to 2 weeks (to 45 mg/day). I may try it for a day or two just to see the impact on my BP, which is my main concern.
weight 201.6 (up a little over 8 lbs) waist is 35", midsection 36.5" ~ 36.75" (up a little also, but clothes/pants still fit)
Just a little over 2 weeks left. TBH I have not been that careful about diet, erring on the side of a fair bit more carbs than normal, but only minimal increase in belly fat so far. Workout this morning was pretty good. I had an early morning meeting so I had to really push through the workout in a shorter amount of time than I normally give myself. I was dripping sweat by the time I finally put the weights down.
BP was 140/77 this afternoon, which is not too bad. I am still giving serious thought to upping the DMZ dose for the last 1 to 2 weeks (to 45 mg/day). I may try it for a day or two just to see the impact on my BP, which is my main concern.
christ83189
Well-known member
I love dmz. I run it at 60 usually. 30 once because it was a stack with equal parts dmz/msten and didnt want to go above 30 on the msten so i went 30/30 and it treated me nice
Sparkss
Well-known member
Thanks for the feedback! I don't really "feel" it at 30mg right now. I do see slow progress, but aside from the initial appetite spike (and BP rise) I couldn't really tell that I was on anything.
I am also considering extending this DMZ run to 6 weeks, with the last week dropping back to 30 mg/day (if I bump it up before then) and using it to cut down (with a calorie restricted diet), since the first week, before the appetite kicked in, I noticed I leaned out a little on it.
Funny that you mention it, because I have some msten/dmz too (at 15 each per capsule). I loved msten the last time I ran it (solo), but it didn't love me back *sigh*. My liver took a little bit of a beating and my BP went through the roof, but so did my size, much of which I kept even after I stopped the msten, having run it for less than 2 weeks ramping up to 30 mg/day. For my next oral run I am thinking of using 1 of those (msten/dmz) in the morning and just a dmz pill at night (msten also keeps me up if I take it too late, DMZ does not).
Sparkss
Well-known member
Well, I decided not to up the dose to 45/day and ended up sticking with 30 mg/day. Reason being that I check my BP prior to the "extra" dose on Monday and it was 153/77. Anything over 150 and I back off. So instead of adding another DMZ I added another Hawthorn Berry to my pill regime. The next day (roughly the same time) my BP was down to 143/71.
I have noticed a couple of things about how my body responds to DMZ
- If I eat less I end up a couple of lbs leaner (on the scale) the very next day, pretty much guaranteed. This is not so much of a guarantee when I am not on "something", so at least I can tell that the DMZ is "working"
- If I eat more, but it is heavier in fats, I gain a bit more in the midsection (ok, so this one doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out).
- If I eat more carbs, even later in the day, I am bloated a little that night, but up a little in weight (scale) and still leaner (mirror) the next morning
- I see a much higher swing from my nighttime/bedtime weight to my waking/morning weight than I did before starting DMZ. I would always swing 3 ~ 5 lbs from night to morning. Now I have seen swings of 5 ~ 9 lbs, especially if I ate more carbs the day before.
- High vs low glycemic carbs don't seem to matter as much. I don't see a significant different in weight/comp if I focus more on eating one over the other on a specific day.
- The hunger is there, just below the surface. I can keep it in check if I exhibit some will power, but once I give in and eat, especially anything with carbs, the "flood gates" open. This is while still taking a 1/2 phentermine each day (prescribed by my doctor).
I have noticed a couple of things about how my body responds to DMZ
- If I eat less I end up a couple of lbs leaner (on the scale) the very next day, pretty much guaranteed. This is not so much of a guarantee when I am not on "something", so at least I can tell that the DMZ is "working"
- If I eat more, but it is heavier in fats, I gain a bit more in the midsection (ok, so this one doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out
).- If I eat more carbs, even later in the day, I am bloated a little that night, but up a little in weight (scale) and still leaner (mirror) the next morning
- I see a much higher swing from my nighttime/bedtime weight to my waking/morning weight than I did before starting DMZ. I would always swing 3 ~ 5 lbs from night to morning. Now I have seen swings of 5 ~ 9 lbs, especially if I ate more carbs the day before.
- High vs low glycemic carbs don't seem to matter as much. I don't see a significant different in weight/comp if I focus more on eating one over the other on a specific day.
- The hunger is there, just below the surface. I can keep it in check if I exhibit some will power, but once I give in and eat, especially anything with carbs, the "flood gates" open. This is while still taking a 1/2 phentermine each day (prescribed by my doctor).
Sparkss
Well-known member
Day 29
Yesterday's measurements (@ day 28, the 4 week mark)
weight 201.2 (up a little over 8 lbs) waist is 35.25", midsection 36.25"
I feel tighter across the chest and upper back although I also feel a little bloated around my midsection. It has not been a massive bulk, but it remains to be seen how much is left after I stop.
A couple of things I learned about DMZ
- It is carb hungry, as others have reported. I saw the most gains (and not just in my midsection) when I upped my clean/complex cab intake. When I stuck with high protein/low carbs I gained pretty much nothing.
- Taking the last dose just before bed leads to nighttime acid indigestion. Taking it around 90 minutes before bed works much better. No sleep issues either way (outside of the acid indigestion making it a little harder to sleep)
- 1g of TUDCA was likely over kill. I have had no sides/signs of liver distress. Eyes still clear white, pee still clear.
- It does noticeably increase protein synthesis, especially while sleeping. I would eat like a horse during the day and the next morning be lean(ish) again.
One thing I also noticed, which I am not sure it is related to the DMZ or not, is that I can control the hunger pretty easily in the morning, but once I have any decent amount of carbs (usually around early afternoon, as part of lunch) then the "bottomless pit hunger" kicks in.
I have 1 week left in this bottle (@ 30mg/day). I am also still running ralox, having added in some bioperine (in addition to the bioperine in the other supps that I take) specifically to ensure good absorption of the ralox.
I seem to keep coming back to around 201/202 lbs in the morning, no matter how much I weigh going to bed the night before. The smallest swing was 204.4 at night 201.6 in the morning, the biggest swing was from 211.6 at night to 202.2 upon waking.
As I seem t be stuck right around the 202 lbs mark I am giving serious consideration to starting my cut now, dieting down while still on DMZ, to see if that will help lean me out. However I am not sure how well that will work since even going with lean eating before did not really result in any dramatic change in weight or waistline.
I did start masteron this morning, as I plan to run that through the cut to help preserve muscle. Right now I am stacking prop and enan, but will switch to just enan in 3 weeks or so, once I am sure the enan has kicked in enough.
Yesterday's measurements (@ day 28, the 4 week mark)
weight 201.2 (up a little over 8 lbs) waist is 35.25", midsection 36.25"
I feel tighter across the chest and upper back although I also feel a little bloated around my midsection. It has not been a massive bulk, but it remains to be seen how much is left after I stop.
A couple of things I learned about DMZ
- It is carb hungry, as others have reported. I saw the most gains (and not just in my midsection) when I upped my clean/complex cab intake. When I stuck with high protein/low carbs I gained pretty much nothing.
- Taking the last dose just before bed leads to nighttime acid indigestion. Taking it around 90 minutes before bed works much better. No sleep issues either way (outside of the acid indigestion making it a little harder to sleep)
- 1g of TUDCA was likely over kill. I have had no sides/signs of liver distress. Eyes still clear white, pee still clear.
- It does noticeably increase protein synthesis, especially while sleeping. I would eat like a horse during the day and the next morning be lean(ish) again.
One thing I also noticed, which I am not sure it is related to the DMZ or not, is that I can control the hunger pretty easily in the morning, but once I have any decent amount of carbs (usually around early afternoon, as part of lunch) then the "bottomless pit hunger" kicks in.
I have 1 week left in this bottle (@ 30mg/day). I am also still running ralox, having added in some bioperine (in addition to the bioperine in the other supps that I take) specifically to ensure good absorption of the ralox.
I seem to keep coming back to around 201/202 lbs in the morning, no matter how much I weigh going to bed the night before. The smallest swing was 204.4 at night 201.6 in the morning, the biggest swing was from 211.6 at night to 202.2 upon waking.
As I seem t be stuck right around the 202 lbs mark I am giving serious consideration to starting my cut now, dieting down while still on DMZ, to see if that will help lean me out. However I am not sure how well that will work since even going with lean eating before did not really result in any dramatic change in weight or waistline.
I did start masteron this morning, as I plan to run that through the cut to help preserve muscle. Right now I am stacking prop and enan, but will switch to just enan in 3 weeks or so, once I am sure the enan has kicked in enough.