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Tudca & Nac

TheBigBrodie said:
Could Tudca & Nac help protect and maybe even slightly heal a fatty liver??
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Studies say it can but i believe they're other factors involved.
I do believe there comes a point of no return.
 
Yes. It's even better than prescribed UDCA, and additional benefits of increasing insulin sensitivity.

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This article says it can. Invalid Link Removed

Just realized its the same as above. But it is correct
 
Great stuff. My father in law has been having some liver issues, I recently had him start 500mg Tucda and 1000mg NAC. He has follow up appointment in few weeks, however that will probably be too early for major changes.
 
justhere4comm said:
Yes. It's even better than prescribed UDCA, and additional benefits of increasing insulin sensitivity.

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Where on this page are you linking this proof? I can't see anything specific on there.

cheftepesh1 said:
This article says it can. Invalid Link Removed

Just realized its the same as above. But it is correct
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I'm sorry, what article? you have linked to examine which is a composition website (which does include links to some articles) but you never actually indicated which article, also theres no mention of evidence in treating fatty liver on there... Just that there is a upper limit dose used on fatty liver.

Just wondering if you guys are confused with what the condition of fatty liver actually is as opposed to the massive number of conditions we can get with the liver.

To OP maybe do a litter research into betaine easily available and extremely low toxicity, currently one of the researched drugs focusing on fatty liver disease (metformin is also another one).

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There is some evidence that in mice it may help reduce the inflammatory stages of fatty liver disease (steatohepatitis) but this is definitely not concrete, and although there is a lot of research going into fatty liver disease i don't think theres much involving TUDCA/UDCA as theres actually studies showing that their reduction on endoplasmic stress has no effect on reducing fatty liver disease (taken from examine...)

Henkel AS, et al. Reducing endoplasmic reticulum stress does not improve steatohepatitis in mice fed a methionine- and choline-deficient diet. Am J Physiol Gastrointest Liver Physiol. (2012)

TUDCA/UDCA has a role and definitely offers more benefits that originally thought given its MOA, but i think most people on here don't really understand its mechanisms as opposed to its ability to water down liver enzymes and give it far to much praise.

A more accurate statement would be, can it help with fatty liver disease? Maybe. But there are definitely things out there which would offer a more reliable benefit that actually have (or are having) research to support it.

NAC on the other hand, I'm a big fan of this and it does have evidence that it helps fatty liver regardless of the grade of steatosis

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scump said:
Where on this page are you linking this proof? I can't see anything specific on there.
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Metformin itself is a kind of miracle drug. It's too bad it's prescription only.

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If money is no object I would be looking at TUDCA, Berberine, NA-R-ALA, NAC and L-Carnitine.

TUDCA and NA-R-ALA are pretty dang spend though...but probably worth it.
 
TUDCA is king. Hard to believe milk thistle used to be the go to for on cycle liver support. We've come a long way.
 
Tudca costs a bit and it works

My Doc wanted to see my liver values lower, and while mine have been in this range for none yuears now, probally longer bc weight training esp intense elevated them, I took tudca at 750 mgs for a while and liver values came back in range. They were only like 75 and 65 or something like that, then got into range after tudca

NAC is good, ive heard it can cause a false positive on the liver ezymes test, so disconitnue nac a couple weeks before the test. Tudca is the best i know of according to my bloodwork. Ive had bloods on nac and hawthorn and they were still slightly elevated Only thing that got mine in range were tudca at 750 mgs a month or so
 
HIT4ME said:
If money is no object I would be looking at TUDCA, Berberine, NA-R-ALA, NAC and L-Carnitine.

TUDCA and NA-R-ALA are pretty dang spend though...but probably worth it.
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Mr. Supps has at a pretty reasonable cost.

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currently using TUDCArk that showed alittle issue with my gallbladder/bile salts....dr recommended milk thistle and nac, went with TUDCA, not sure when he wants me to go back to see if it helped at all

ppl seem to love it though
 
Anyone get horrific diarrhea from tudca? Only last about an hour but I can count on it every time I take it.
 
justhere4comm said:
Metformin itself is a kind of miracle drug. It's too bad it's prescription only.

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see this is my concern, all they mention is an upper limit dose used for fatty liver, but they provide no evidence of it being used to treat fatty liver other than that value.

1. reducing liver enzymes does not treat fatty liver, it just reduces your liver enzymes.
2. cholestasis is not fatty liver, its a different condition entirely. It could definitely contribute to fatty liver but it doesn't mean the treatment modalities are the same, will mention i definitely do support TUDCA/UDCA for treatment of cholestasis.
3. I agree with the benefits to insulin sensitivity but even those articles show that it didn't have an impact on fatty liver.

All the articles are down the bottom of the page and the only ones who focus on fatty liver show that it didn't actually show any improvement (in spite of its regenerative capabilities). I'm not denying that TUDCA/UDCA offer a lot of benefits just in this instance there isn't any research showing a benefit other than the small amount of evidence showing a benefit to steatohepatitis on mice (which afaik doesn't have a lot of follow up going into it).
 
John Smeton said:
Tudca costs a bit and it works

My Doc wanted to see my liver values lower, and while mine have been in this range for none yuears now, probally longer bc weight training esp intense elevated them, I took tudca at 750 mgs for a while and liver values came back in range. They were only like 75 and 65 or something like that, then got into range after tudca

NAC is good, ive heard it can cause a false positive on the liver ezymes test, so disconitnue nac a couple weeks before the test. Tudca is the best i know of according to my bloodwork. Ive had bloods on nac and hawthorn and they were still slightly elevated Only thing that got mine in range were tudca at 750 mgs a month or so
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See this is one of the concerns though, TUDCA knowingly reduces liver enzymes but not necessarily the cause. So if you take TUDCA they will read lower, but is the cause for elevation treated? unless you plan on taking TUDCA life long to continue to mask it, it would be potentially pointless. In your instance its very possible that the rises are just transient in relation to intense workouts, but if there was a pathological cause all it would do is mask it.

Here is an equivalent example, if you have an infection you spike fevers, acetaminophen is used as an anti-pyretic to reduce fevers, if you take the acetaminophen you (potentially) won't spike fevers, which will make it look good on paper. However the infection hasn't been treated so as soon as you stop the acetaminophen the fevers will come back because we haven't treated the actual cause.
 
scump - I think you are right. Tudca has a lot of health benefits, and can improve liver health in certain ways, but we often think that normal enzyme levels are all that matter when it is not.

It seems that non-alcoholic fatty liver has very few treatment options.

Berberine does have some data suggesting it will treat steatosis. I believe ALA does as well and it's MOA actually would make sense for reducing fatty deposits.

Also, we often look for too much from just one ingredient. As if we have a problem and if we just find the one right thing, it will be all better. But a lot of diseases require a multifaceted approach.

On the other hand, fasting for weight loss cam have a big impact on the reversal of NAFLD.
 
scump said:
See this is one of the concerns though, TUDCA knowingly reduces liver enzymes but not necessarily the cause. So if you take TUDCA they will read lower, but is the cause for elevation treated? unless you plan on taking TUDCA life long to continue to mask it, it would be potentially pointless. In your instance its very possible that the rises are just transient in relation to intense workouts, but if there was a pathological cause all it would do is mask it.

Here is an equivalent example, if you have an infection you spike fevers, acetaminophen is used as an anti-pyretic to reduce fevers, if you take the acetaminophen you (potentially) won't spike fevers, which will make it look good on paper. However the infection hasn't been treated so as soon as you stop the acetaminophen the fevers will come back because we haven't treated the actual cause.
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Maybe if there is an underlying cause that is not known. However, with most people who take tudca they know there issue, they drink too much, or oral steriods, or to much Tylenol, etc.

Most liver diseases that are not self inflicted are actually kind of uncommon in the USA.

Either way tudca will have a positive benefit.

Lastly your understanding of tudca is off. It does not directly lowers liver enzymes. It lowers them by opening the bile ducts which allows for healing, thus lowering of enzymes follow suit
 
scump said:
see this is my concern, all they mention is an upper limit dose used for fatty liver, but they provide no evidence of it being used to treat fatty liver other than that value.

1. reducing liver enzymes does not treat fatty liver, it just reduces your liver enzymes.
2. cholestasis is not fatty liver, its a different condition entirely. It could definitely contribute to fatty liver but it doesn't mean the treatment modalities are the same, will mention i definitely do support TUDCA/UDCA for treatment of cholestasis.
3. I agree with the benefits to insulin sensitivity but even those articles show that it didn't have an impact on fatty liver.

All the articles are down the bottom of the page and the only ones who focus on fatty liver show that it didn't actually show any improvement (in spite of its regenerative capabilities). I'm not denying that TUDCA/UDCA offer a lot of benefits just in this instance there isn't any research showing a benefit other than the small amount of evidence showing a benefit to steatohepatitis on mice (which afaik doesn't have a lot of follow up going into it).
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Thanks a bunch! Your really helping! Covering every aspect of this it means a lot.
 
I like TUDCA. I don't know about my liver but I've been pooping a gigantic amount of rich brownie looking poop since taking them. I think my liver is cleaning itself out.
 
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