RickyBlobby
Well-known member
If you don't get gains from Var It is bunk, or you did something way wrong. Again, 10% lbm increases in bedridden patients in studies
Liver damage from oral AAS greatly exggerated
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Spurfy
Active member
Agreed.
44% increase in net protein synthesis with only 15 mg/day, in healthy young men. It doesn't get more clear than that.
MrKleen73
Legend
Wait? Are you referring to the wikipedia article that read like an opinion piece? I didn't see any cited references to give it validity... nor anything scientific stating that the rats prostate is not effected by androgenic compounds...
This is how the assay is done, I copied this from superiormuscle.com from the thread Understanding anabolic androgenic ratios of AAS
"To determine the A/A ratio, scientists utilized a test called the Rat Levator Ani Assay. In this test, scientists use two groups of castrated rats. The rats are castrated to remove any interfering influence from fluctuating natural androgen levels. The first group of rats are a control group that receives a placebo, while the second group receives the steroid (either by injection or orally). After a period of time (several days to weeks) the rats are sacrificed. Researchers then isolate three organs from each of the rats – the seminal vesicles, ventral prostate, and levator ani muscle.<<<<(not a skeletal muscle) These organs are all weighed and a comparison of the active group to the placebo groups is made. The differences in weights for the seminal vesicles and ventral prostate represent androgenic activity, while the difference in the weight of the levator ani muscles in the control and active group represent anabolic activity.
To give a landmark against which to gauge the relative activities of each steroid in this assay, a standard is used in some of the rats in the active group. This standard is usually testosterone, testosterone propionate, or 17alpha-methyltestosterone (MT) and the results obtained from the rats given this standard are designated an arbitrary number of 1 for anabolic activity and 1 for androgenic activity. Therefore these standard androgens are said to have an A/A ratio of 1."
When a rat shows that something is androgenic due to the enlargment of the prostate that is higher sexual function stuff. If it does it there, it does it with humans. This part is not in question.
No not all steroids are highly androgenic once in humans that is nonsensical. Again look to all of the different gear that women use and then look at the ratios and you will see that the androgenic side of things is the only guarantee when it shows high it is high... Can you think of one compound with a high androgenic rating that does not come with virilization? I can't.
Other than that it is just a tool. I will go back and look at that article you posted but it read like an opinion peice and i don't expect to get back and be swayed by it if there are not also a ton of legitimate references... Anyone can submit something to wikipedia.
Cgkone
Well-known member
I'm thinking that var might be best for me in a cruise.
Blow up on a blast
Try to hold as much as possible
15 mg for 16 weeks
Chados
Well-known member
I didn't say they were extremly androgenic but they are more so than on paper. Well Wikipedia is not always right that's true but it mostly is and I don't see any study proving differently. There at opinions on this forum that I should trust? I mean take anadrol which is a dht but doesn't act like a dht cause its been altered. I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm not saying I'm wrong, that's why I said where the article came from to create a discussion or to have someones opinion on it. There are people claiming deca is more powerful than tren too and that's just silly.
I have used deca tren test primo eq mast winstrol anavar anadrol dbol to name a few and I'm my opinion anavar is the absolute weakest massbuilder. You can argue primo just because it's so slow, or mast cause it might add less mass but that's not really what I use it for and during a cut it blows var out of the water. Proviron I not even worth mentioning. Now someone is telling me I've used anavar wrong which might be true, the person is telling me it's the strongest steroid out there. I'm just scratching my head.. I am pretty sure hairygrandpa already did this anavar routine and didn't notice anything, well then the var is fake?. I will therefore get var, run it as stated, come back and say what happened. If I'm wrong I'm gonna run var every time and say bye bye to 19 noirs.
Spurfy
Active member
That's a solid plan
210LBS
Well-known member
Looks like a lot of people say it's mild on hair loss but I cannot seem to find a definitive answer. Hmmm... maybe I can run it at a lower dose alongside the tbol to be safe...
Nac
Well-known member
Dude, Ive done that twice now, but 25mg IM. Best recomps Ive done with so little; I ended up having to eat more kcals than on the preceding bulk in order to prevent going from a recomp into a cut.
Nac
Well-known member
Dont want to overhype it, but straight talk. I dont know how lean you are, but end of my bulks I wouldve been between 15-20% bfat. So about perfect for a recomp.
Only bummer was both times I had to bail at about 7wks, or I wouldve gone much longer like you plan.
Hyde
Legend
In the OG Cube method Brandon Lilly actually laid out an accompanying drug protocol for the serious powerlifter. Basically after every meet there was 6 weeks of whatever your cruise was plus Var to recover some before he ramped the test and deca back up (then the last 4 weeks he recommended tren ace on top and last 2 weeks dbol).
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
Definitive answer is....There is no definitive answer since we are all individuals who react to compounds differently. But I did a LOT of research on this before I got my hair transplant and the concensus is Var is about as safe as it gets. In my research.
210LBS
Well-known member
Interesting... How do you like your hair transplant btw?
Cgkone
Well-known member
That sound good.
Real good.
Chados
Well-known member
Have you tried primo? I did a test, primo, mast, var cycle, loved it.
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
It changed my life lol. I was about 75% bald on top, now I just have a thin spot on top towards the back. Which can be easily concealed with Dermatch.
I got a FUE, which is the expensive form of transplant. Instead of cutting a slice out of the back of your head to pull replacement follicles from, they extract each follicle one by one with like, hollow drill bit. In the U.S. a good surgeon charges about $8 a graft, I got a total of 4,000 grafts.
But I flew to turkey, got a top surgeon to do mine and the total cost was only $5,600.
Chados
Well-known member
Haha wow, thank god they did a good job cause there are some countries that's a lottery with surgeries. I know , I don't understand why people think they're gonna walk around with a wig. It looks just like your original hair. Haven't done it personally but I've seen it be done
210LBS
Well-known member
Interesting... I've heard of people getting it done here in the USA for like $20k. From what I've seen the results are incredible. Would like to see the before and after. My hair line has receded but I'm not quite at the point where it would be ideal for me to get a hair transplant yet. I still have to lose some more first... but I'll get there haha
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
I did a LOT of research, trust me. Dr. Erkan Demirsoy had reviews on hair boards all over the internet and the whole experience was smooth and very pleasant. Had his own private hotel and everything.
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
I could Email pics if you want. Too big to upload here. I was 34 when I had it done.
If all you have is a receeding hairline, you would probably only need about 2,000-2,500 grafts max depending on how far back your hairline has receeded. I think he charges $1.50 a graft now
210LBS
Well-known member
I'm in NY and there are quite a few hair transplants surgeons in the city here... expensive? Oh yeah. But good.
210LBS
Well-known member
I'll PM you.
MrKleen73
Legend
I guess that was a one time deal? I remember when i went in and they told me I was a good candidate but then explained to me that I would need to keep coming back as my hair thinned out to get more grafts. Said I would likely need to go back in every 2-5 years until I stopped thinning. In the end it sounded like it was going to end up being a good 50 grand to maintain a full head of hair over the years as i thinned. I thought about it but then was like Nah, I can buy a bad ass convertible for that and deal with my insecurities that way...
Now I love being bald, I wish that parts that grew in would stop so I didn't have to shave and I would be in heaven.
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
The most important thing is my hairline, as it frames the face, and it is there for good. The top will thin out over time but I can use a concealer to hide it. Or I can fly back and get another HT. We'll see how it goes. Total cost was about $10k including flight, time off from work ETC. If I go back every 5 years that's only $2k a year out my 401k and I can deal with that.
I do NOT look good bald, I have a baby face and it don't look right lol. I wish I did though!
Cgkone
Well-known member
Nope havnt tried it.
I was told masteron is basically the same drug.
I actually got a strange reaction to mast p.
Achy crampy biceps and thighs.
I'm never dehydrated.
I couldn't take it so I tapped out.
My partner used the rest of the mast and loved it....
So I'm timid to try it.
Got 2 vials coming so I was thinking of adding 150mg to my cruise
Chados
Well-known member
Mast is something I'd never run under 600 but if it's a cruise it could surely help. It's a bit hard to use of you don't see abs compared to winstrol or anavar perhaps but far better than both of these to sculpture a body. Using it with tren is out of this world but primo can really be a nice milder tren. Anavar have me cramps and winstrol my fingers were cracking for a while. Mast has been very easy to use
Hyde
Legend
If you go bald just lift heavy, fatten up and grow a beard. Maybe get some tats or earrings. You won’t pull any pu$$y but you definitely won’t look like a baby and nobody f*cks with you
Cgkone
Well-known member
I was using it as a primo replacement.
I'm getting some from a different supplier so ill be using it as a hardner and for sexual benefits if I use it.
Chados
Well-known member
I see, well I updated my post saying mast has been the mildest of the cutters personally, not that the others were that hard to deal with but. If I had to chose 3 compounds to run forever it would be mast primo and test for safety and results. Walking around lean all day every day and not having to deal with tren toxicity.
Renew1
Legend
MrKleen73
Legend
Yeah, by 23, I had gone bald enough I had to decide if I was going to get surgery, shave, or do some sort of comb-over. I had a Ceaser haircut at the time and one day I noticed myself pushing some of the hair up front toward the center where I was thinning more. I was like Oh ****, I am doing a form of a comb over now. Lucky for me this was right around the time that Natural Born Killers came out and Woody Harrelson gave white bald men another options. He looked so cool and tough in that movie, a total turn around for him from Cheers and everyone was loving the new look. I remembered in boot camp I looked better than most with my head shaved to a no guard. So the day noticed myself pushing hair into the thing spot I just grabbed my clippers and scalped myself down to a one. Then got some sun on it before shaving it completely so I didn't look like a whitewall tire. I haven't really looked back since, and am 45 now.
If you go bald just lift heavy, fatten up and grow a beard. Maybe get some tats or earrings. You won’t pull any pu$$y but you definitely won’t look like a baby and nobody f*cks with you
Haha, no man a really big bald dude with a thick beard can be ugly as fug and still pull tons of women. Hell I have seen straight up ugly guys get chicks off of a scruffy unkempt beard. Add being massive even if overweight and they still get women... It is like the beard turns almost any quality of man into vag candy... Interestingly enough my wife just tolerates it when I want to grow mine for a little bit. She can't stand them.
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
LMFAO!If you go bald just lift heavy, fatten up and grow a beard. Maybe get some tats or earrings. You won’t pull any pu$$y but you definitely won’t look like a baby and nobody f*cks with you
Yeah I have a beard now, but at the time I had to shave for refinery work. Still don't think it would work for me though as I have an egg shaped lump on top of by head to make things worse, no way my beard could distract from that b!tch
Chados
Well-known member
Normal is the word of use. Nothing noticible except great energy. I had a bit cramps from var though which is normal
MrKleen73
Legend
LMFAO!
Yeah I have a beard now, but at the time I had to shave for refinery work. Still don't think it would work for me though as I have an egg shaped lump on top of by head to make things worse, no way my beard could distract from that b!tch
My sons half brother has a head that looks like a softball that was beaten with a mallet! His Dad is bald too and we always told him he better hope he gets his hairline from is mother's side. Poor kid gonna look like Sloth from "The Goonies" if he goes bald.
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RickyBlobby
Well-known member
LMAO. That's exactly what I looked like after getting 8,100 holes poked in my head and all the fluid draining into my face. It was hideous, I had to miss 2 weeks of work lol
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
Similar thread from pm 
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RickyBlobby
Well-known member
Yeah, sin-ugly women lol
Hyde
Legend
Similar thread from pm
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Dang, 4 months of 300mg of combined orals including 100-300mg Anadrol at times...no issues.
Nahhh, just the kind that make you breakfast
MrKleen73
Legend
Spurfy - I have some at the house and am thinking I might try the methods you proposed for cycling OX. I will be recomping with a side of growth with it but still want to use as optimally as possible.
I just went back through trying to get a collection of best practices from here so I can run my cycle in that way and see how it goes compared to how I have run it before. I never knew that Var was actually the reason I was losing my appetite during the day... interested to see how this works out. Can you look this over and let me know if I missed anything.
1) Do not use an AI,
2) Use a SERM and not tamoxifen - can I ask why not tamox? Should I use a SERM if on TRT?
3)Use Intermittent Fasting - I already do this most days breaking my fast between 12:00-2:00PM
4) Ensuring an adequate intake of a mixed bag of high-quality cardio-protective antioxidants on cycle (mixed tocopherols, CoQ10, acetyl-L-carnitine, alpha-lipoic acid, melatonin)
5) A weekly dose of 50,000 - 100,000 iu of vitamin D + 500 mcg of vitamin K2, taken with a high-fat meal -- is the Vit K2 taken each day?
Dosing - full dose taken at 6:00PM every night.
Coffee in the AM with 30mg of creatine. - Does all 30 need to be at once or can it be spread over a few cups of coffee throughout the morning, is one method preferred over the other?
- As far as diet - are you also doing keto dieting, or are you taking in carbs peri-workout and do you think that it matters for how your protocol works? I was considering more of a IF / Carb back loading approach to get most of the nutrients in post workout while the anabolics were at their highest levels too.
I just went back through trying to get a collection of best practices from here so I can run my cycle in that way and see how it goes compared to how I have run it before. I never knew that Var was actually the reason I was losing my appetite during the day... interested to see how this works out. Can you look this over and let me know if I missed anything.
1) Do not use an AI,
2) Use a SERM and not tamoxifen - can I ask why not tamox? Should I use a SERM if on TRT?
3)Use Intermittent Fasting - I already do this most days breaking my fast between 12:00-2:00PM
4) Ensuring an adequate intake of a mixed bag of high-quality cardio-protective antioxidants on cycle (mixed tocopherols, CoQ10, acetyl-L-carnitine, alpha-lipoic acid, melatonin)
5) A weekly dose of 50,000 - 100,000 iu of vitamin D + 500 mcg of vitamin K2, taken with a high-fat meal -- is the Vit K2 taken each day?
Dosing - full dose taken at 6:00PM every night.
Coffee in the AM with 30mg of creatine. - Does all 30 need to be at once or can it be spread over a few cups of coffee throughout the morning, is one method preferred over the other?
- As far as diet - are you also doing keto dieting, or are you taking in carbs peri-workout and do you think that it matters for how your protocol works? I was considering more of a IF / Carb back loading approach to get most of the nutrients in post workout while the anabolics were at their highest levels too.
MrKleen73
Legend
Luckily for me I have never had any issues like that. I have only gone up to 20mg a day for a week back in the day when they said you needed a loading phase. I will definitely need to increase my water intake though. That much will have me feeling dry mouthed if not so the increase in water will not be hard to do.
Spurfy - why does the creatine need to be so high, isn't the saturation point lower than this? Is it the reaction between the two we are trying to get with the higher dose and not just muscular creatine saturation? I honestly haven't researched on creatine in probably 10-15 years but I remember reading about saturation limits and stuff back then.
210LBS
Well-known member
I've noticed my stomach actually becoming more sensitive to things over the years... I don't remember having stomach issues when I was loading creatine at 18 years old but now my stomach doesn't handle more than 3 grams very nicely.
Spurfy
Active member
I can't tell you the mechanism because it's my discovery and it's my secret. I intend to publish on this down the road.
Sorry.
MrKleen73
Legend
You know, I might find myself in the same situation. I haven't had more than 10g of creatine in a day in a very long time! I remember reading many years ago that anything over 5g a day gets excreted, part of the reason I am curious to hear why the 30g for creatine. I am going to try it either way and see what happens.
MrKleen73
Legend
Okay, that is very cool, but that being said you seem to have a very good reason for this, so I will follow the suggestion to the t.
Did you happen to see my other questions regarding the protocol? I know not looking for free coaching here just if I got the info you already shared right, and the tiny things about the application.