No Test! Recomp Advise

[FRITZBLITZ]

I'm interested in doing a low or 0 Test recomp. I did a recomp that got interrupted and I had poor post cycle diet and gained some of the fat back. So rather than doing a dreaded cutt [I'm not competitive BB] I plan on doing another recomp. I have been reading diff cycles where ppl used low or no Test and for the labido and Test "feeling" they in some cases either ran a high dose of a DHT like EQ, Mast, Primo.

My last recomp cycle was Test 300mg/EQ 450mg/ Deca 450mg and was cut short around 10 weeks but I did drop alot of fat and gained alot of muscle. I did have some estro issues; at first I crashed it with Adex but switched to Aromasin that must have been under dosed and when I got my PCT BW my estro was high. I realize the bunk Asin was the problem but it got me thinking about the lowest E conversion cycle I could do, maybe even not need an AI. My idea was to do EQ 700mg/Deca 450mg and mabe adding 50mg of test if I'm just not right.

I have never done a NO test cycle so I'm open to suggestions except Primo cuz I would love to run Primo 1200mg/ Deca 450mg but I'm not RICH lol

 

[Chados]

Nah run test for sure. I don't see any reason to advice not to. I mean i could give you some awesome cycles for recomp but they all include test.

 

[AnabolicGuru]

Nah run test for sure. I don't see any reason to advice not to. I mean i could give you some awesome cycles for recomp but they all include test.

This.I’ll never run a cycle without test again

 

[Cgkone]

I'd like to know how it goes.
I know an older guy who says back in the day he would come all the way off test for 6-8 weeks and just stay on Deca and proviron.
I mentioned it on here and most people seem to think its really bad for you.
Also early 1990s in the bay area Deca was given to aids patience to keep them strong.
In paper Deca looks a lot like test so.........
If you do try it will you log it?

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

I would be interested in any recomp cycles you can recommend. Pm me or post. I'm wondering what your opinion of the least amount of test do I need to add with a high DHT compound in the cycle

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

I remember you mentioned your deca friend. I would be up for it and would log it if I can get some pros on the low/no test side of this topic

 

[Cgkone]

I remember you mentioned your deca friend. I would be up for it and would log it if I can get some pros on the low/no test side of this topic

You got a couple messages from me.
My buddy is 62.
He's traing for a show.
The last time I talked him out of doing just Deca and Mast because the response I got from this site was mostly negative.
Basically the idea was just keep a little test in you at all times.
I couldn't get any pros from anybody.
But its a fact that Deca was prescribed without test.
It won't convert to estrogen as much as test.
Maybe just start with real low test and try to ease into no test.

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

This.I’ll never run a cycle without test again

How much would you think is the low end that I could run? Is it even worth running low? I commented on another guy's post that I have up to now sworn by 300mg test on every cycle but I can evolve an learn other's ideas of Test needs

 

[Chados]

How much would you think is the low end that I could run? Is it even worth running low? I commented on another guy's post that I have up to now sworn by 300mg test on every cycle but I can evolve an learn other's ideas of Test needs

I think 125-200 is plenty, remeber deca is the builder now and you just want test to stay more healthy.

 

[Smont]

Mast, eq is the only thing I'd do without test. Or trest,. My uncle went off trt for a while with just EQ and was fine for a few months

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

You got a couple messages from me.
My buddy is 62.
He's traing for a show.
The last time I talked him out of doing just Deca and Mast because the response I got from this site was mostly negative.
Basically the idea was just keep a little test in you at all times.
I couldn't get any pros from anybody.
But its a fact that Deca was prescribed without test.
It won't convert to estrogen as much as test.
Maybe just start with real low test and try to ease into no test.

I just don't know where low is to start at. I mean since I'll have Deca which yes was prescribed to aids patients but is also a very potent but easy on the body as long as your running reasonable mg and not 3g of gear along with it. I hate uninformed ppl that think deca is wet and dirty gains cuz they run it at 800mg with 1gr of Test and a Dbol kick.

 

[Chados]

I just don't know where low is to start at. I mean since I'll have Deca which yes was prescribed to aids patients but is also a very potent but easy on the body as long as your running reasonable mg and not 3g of gear along with it. I hate uninformed ppl that think deca is wet and dirty gains cuz they run it at 800mg with 1gr of Test and a Dbol kick.

Yeah but 1. You don't have aids and 2. The dosage I assume was really low for these patients. And what year was this?

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

Mast, eq is the only thing I'd do without test. Or trest,. My uncle went off trt for a while with just EQ and was fine for a few months

So I was originally thinking 800mg EQ but as a replacement. what is the lowest EQ that you think I should add to Deca if I'm adding 150mg Test?

I think 125-200 is plenty, remeber deca is the builder now and you just want test to stay more healthy.

When you say "healthy' what all do you mean? For some reason my unit works fine on ANY cycle but I always have really low sex drive except on Tren. But I want all the rest to be healthy especially my mood.

 

[Cgkone]

Late 80s early 90s

 

[Cgkone]

Yeah but 1. You don't have aids and 2. The dosage I assume was really low for these patients. And what year was this?

Well 100-200 would be a therapeutic dose

 

[MrKleen73]

I am running 600mg Eq and 150mg TRT doses of Test a week for 20 weeks. Running great, no real sides to speak of. Weight is coming on gradually while I also lean up. I am just using 50-100mg of formestane as my AI. 600mg of Eq should aromatize about the same as 300mg of test e does. According to most profiles it aromatizes at about a 50% lower rate than testosterone. So with this I am really fighting the aromatization of only about 400mg of test. Which is not hard to combat even for a gyno sensitive person.

The doses I am on will keep the size coming on slowly, while leaning me out a bit. Should also keep me relatively side free as well, and also not so many androgens that I am more aggressive than usual. I will more than likely bump to 800mg of Eq for the last 8-10 weeks on the cycle.

There really is no such thing as a recomp stack in my opinion. Certainly you pick some of your gear based on it's characteristics. IE how androgenic or anabolic it is. However to recomp is more of a training and nutritional strategy than it is picking the perfect gear. All gear helps you grow, but not all gear has a massive fat loss effect. So you want to pick things that will help you burn fat also if truly trying to make your recomp better. So Tren would be on that is ideal for that type of thing. With Tren all yo have to do is train and eat for your goal and it just works! It rips fat off of you, but I think if you are trying to get rid of Test due to sides then Tren is off limits for you.

I also think some of your issues probably came from running Deca too I don't think I saw you taking anything for prolactin, and with a little bit extra estro and a little extra prolactin things can compound quickly also.

Mostly though I would say whatever you do, make sure you get it from a rock solid source. Even if that means paying more for it.

Some options...
A cycle similar to mine. TRT levels of Test, and then Eq for the anabolism without too much of an androgenic kick. AKA Smooth sailing! Not in a hurry and don't want to feel overly aggressive with too much test or other stuff.

I have a buddy who cruises on 200test c, 200 masteron e, and 200 Eq, he really likes the combination.

A simple recomp 400mg test with a high quality AI.

400Eq, 200 Mast, 50mg var a day

the list just keeps on going.

Really though get your diet and training down for your goal then add in the gear based on what you are trying to do, and how you want to feel while doing it. I have plenty stuff and was actually going to kick start this run with orals but after a week on them I decided I wanted to wait run the orals later because I wanted to feel a certain way during the winter months. Orals are awesome for quick results but you don't always feel your best on them.

 

[Chados]

So I was originally thinking 800mg EQ but as a replacement. what is the lowest EQ that you think I should add to Deca if I'm adding 150mg Test?


When you say "healthy' what all do you mean? For some reason my unit works fine on ANY cycle but I always have really low sex drive except on Tren. But I want all the rest to be healthy especially my mood.

Well you kinda want test as a base in any cycle really. Deca will shut you down and preferably it's better to even extend the test beyond the deca a week or two. It'll also be easier to keep the gains from the cycle. It's not like you can't keep gains on dbol only but you'll loose almost everything without test. I don't know the percentage of deca but I can't imagine it's anywhere close. There's a reason the old school deca only is no more. If it was as simple people wouldn't even bother buying test right ? I mean I'm speculating cause I haven't done it but it makes sense. Science catches up.

 

[MrKleen73]

Well you kinda want test as a base in any cycle really. Deca will shut you down and preferably it's better to even extend the test beyond the deca a week or two. It'll also be easier to keep the gains from the cycle. It's not like you can't keep gains on dbol only but you'll loose almost everything without test. I don't know the percentage of deca but I can't imagine it's anywhere close. There's a reason the old school deca only is no more. If it was as simple people wouldn't even bother buying test right ? I mean I'm speculating cause I haven't done it but it makes sense. Science catches up.

Deca with no added test sucks due to almost no androgenic effect, and higher prolactin. On top of that Deca being moderately high with moderate to high test is often a recipe for sides.

Most of my buddies who run it like it with lower test levels and higher nandrolone to get more growth with less sides.

 

[Chados]

Deca with no added test sucks due to almost no androgenic effect, and higher prolactin. On top of that Deca being moderately high with moderate to high test is often a recipe for sides.

Most of my buddies who run it like it with lower test levels and higher nandrolone to get more growth with less sides.

Yeah I tend to go lower on test than the nandro. Estro-prolactin is a tough combo to deal with already without making it worse.

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

I am running 600mg Eq and 150mg TRT doses of Test a week for 20 weeks. Running great, no real sides to speak of. Weight is coming on gradually while I also lean up. I am just using 50-100mg of formestane as my AI. 600mg of Eq should aromatize about the same as 300mg of test e does. According to most profiles it aromatizes at about a 50% lower rate than testosterone. So with this I am really fighting the aromatization of only about 400mg of test. Which is not hard to combat even for a gyno sensitive person.

The doses I am on will keep the size coming on slowly, while leaning me out a bit. Should also keep me relatively side free as well, and also not so many androgens that I am more aggressive than usual. I will more than likely bump to 800mg of Eq for the last 8-10 weeks on the cycle.

There really is no such thing as a recomp stack in my opinion. Certainly you pick some of your gear based on it's characteristics. IE how androgenic or anabolic it is. However to recomp is more of a training and nutritional strategy than it is picking the perfect gear. All gear helps you grow, but not all gear has a massive fat loss effect. So you want to pick things that will help you burn fat also if truly trying to make your recomp better. So Tren would be on that is ideal for that type of thing. With Tren all yo have to do is train and eat for your goal and it just works! It rips fat off of you, but I think if you are trying to get rid of Test due to sides then Tren is off limits for you.

I also think some of your issues probably came from running Deca too I don't think I saw you taking anything for prolactin, and with a little bit extra estro and a little extra prolactin things can compound quickly also.

Mostly though I would say whatever you do, make sure you get it from a rock solid source. Even if that means paying more for it.

Some options...
A cycle similar to mine. TRT levels of Test, and then Eq for the anabolism without too much of an androgenic kick. AKA Smooth sailing! Not in a hurry and don't want to feel overly aggressive with too much test or other stuff.

I have a buddy who cruises on 200test c, 200 masteron e, and 200 Eq, he really likes the combination.

A simple recomp 400mg test with a high quality AI.

400Eq, 200 Mast, 50mg var a day

the list just keeps on going.

Really though get your diet and training down for your goal then add in the gear based on what you are trying to do, and how you want to feel while doing it. I have plenty stuff and was actually going to kick start this run with orals but after a week on them I decided I wanted to wait run the orals later because I wanted to feel a certain way during the winter months. Orals are awesome for quick results but you don't always feel your best on them.

I appreciate the info. If you have more aggressive cycle ideas for recomp please post them or PM me. I feel and felt like I was able to train much harder or at least in a more aggressive way when I was seeing my arms, chest, shoulders grow while I was also shrinking my belly. When I was on
Test 300mg/ EQ 450mg/ Deca 450mg I was also on caber but even when I was battling high estro I never felt any of the prolactin signs. miles away from leaky nipples. I have always used pharmy Asin except this cycle. I have already made sure I'll have mutiple options for AI including letro for this next cycle.

My diet I believe was great on cycle: Breakfast 3 raw eggs and PB and banana sandwich 1 pint skim milk, Lunch mixed veggies & lean protein and 2 cups carbs, Snack PB banana sw 1 pint skim milk, during WO 80 cal+ skim milk protein shake, Dinner mixed veggies and lean protein no carbs, Bed snack no sugar cereal. It may look like alot but I'm 6'4 and 255 without fat 275 now.I believe my weight gain was due to less than good diet post cycle along with high estro. and bloat from MK677

I would be open to a Tren cycle [ I have cycled tren 2 times] as long as it didnt interfere with my PTSD and Antidepressant meds. That is why I was leaning on Deca and keeping it dry and hard with low estro. Deca for me is similar to tren in the fact that it eats at my fat to make muscle as long as my diet is tip top it makes great lean gains not in the same ball park as tren where you just pin, eat, train, get angry and grow.

 

[MrKleen73]

I appreciate the info. If you have more aggressive cycle ideas for recomp please post them or PM me. I feel and felt like I was able to train much harder or at least in a more aggressive way when I was seeing my arms, chest, shoulders grow while I was also shrinking my belly. When I was on
Test 300mg/ EQ 450mg/ Deca 450mg I was also on caber but even when I was battling high estro I never felt any of the prolactin signs. miles away from leaky nipples. I have always used pharmy Asin except this cycle. I have already made sure I'll have mutiple options for AI including letro for this next cycle.

My diet I believe was great on cycle: Breakfast 3 raw eggs and PB and banana sandwich 1 pint skim milk, Lunch mixed veggies & lean protein and 2 cups carbs, Snack PB banana sw 1 pint skim milk, during WO 80 cal+ skim milk protein shake, Dinner mixed veggies and lean protein no carbs, Bed snack no sugar cereal. It may look like alot but I'm 6'4 and 255 without fat 275 now.I believe my weight gain was due to less than good diet post cycle along with high estro. and bloat from MK677

I would be open to a Tren cycle [ I have cycled tren 2 times] as long as it didnt interfere with my PTSD and Antidepressant meds. That is why I was leaning on Deca and keeping it dry and hard with low estro. Deca for me is similar to tren in the fact that it eats at my fat to make muscle as long as my diet is tip top it makes great lean gains not in the same ball park as tren where you just pin, eat, train, get angry and grow.

What it sounds like is you want to run the big boy stack for gains and just modify your calories or surplus. I honestly don't want to give any suggestions based on how it effects PTSD because I really have no idea. However I would assume the lower androgenic effects are going to be better for you in that situation. So nandrolone makes sense. So does Equipoise. If you are going to run Eq run it for at least 14 weeks minimum it is a slow starter and really shows its worth later in the cycle.

I would probably run something similar to what you ran last time but lower test to 150-200mg and bump the doses on the nandrolone and equipoise to 600 then add in an oral kicker of something like TBol, or Var @ 50-75mg a day. Doing that with a tight diet is going to provide not only an easy opportunity to lean up but a lot of mass too. If you want it to be less noticeable for some reason then skip the orals.

Diet wise alternate from maintenance plus 20% and minus 10% either daily or +20% on workout days and -10 on off days. This will keep your intial gains lean. If you work out more than 4 days a week then do -20% at least 2 days a week until you feel you are lean enough to focus more on growth. Once at that point then start working yourself up in an overall caloric surplus.

Also those raw eggs, they are harder to process and MUCH less protein is useable if not cooked or at least pasteurized. So you might want to get some pasteurized egg whites or something or start cooking those. At least you aren't trying to do egg white only raw.

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

What it sounds like is you want to run the big boy stack for gains and just modify your calories or surplus. I honestly don't want to give any suggestions based on how it effects PTSD because I really have no idea. However I would assume the lower androgenic effects are going to be better for you in that situation. So nandrolone makes sense. So does Equipoise. If you are going to run Eq run it for at least 14 weeks minimum it is a slow starter and really shows its worth later in the cycle.

I would probably run something similar to what you ran last time but lower test to 150-200mg and bump the doses on the nandrolone and equipoise to 600 then add in an oral kicker of something like TBol, or Var @ 50-75mg a day. Doing that with a tight diet is going to provide not only an easy opportunity to lean up but a lot of mass too. If you want it to be less noticeable for some reason then skip the orals.

Diet wise alternate from maintenance plus 20% and minus 10% either daily or +20% on workout days and -10 on off days. This will keep your intial gains lean. If you work out more than 4 days a week then do -20% at least 2 days a week until you feel you are lean enough to focus more on growth. Once at that point then start working yourself up in an overall caloric surplus.

Also those raw eggs, they are harder to process and MUCH less protein is useable if not cooked or at least pasteurized. So you might want to get some pasteurized egg whites or something or start cooking those. At least you aren't trying to do egg white only raw.

Ok so since a recomp is mostly diet dependent on the side of fat loss with a few exceptions like Tren/Var.I would like 1 more favor from you guys, if you could post some solid recomp diet links and advise what my caloric intake and deficit should be I would appreciate it. I'm old school if the raw eggs didn't point that out, I just go for as low carb/no sugar as my body/energy can handle and keep it healthy with veggies and meat.

I would like to start with Test 150mg/ EQ 600mg/ Deca 500mg [If you disagree with Deca 500mg tell me]. and if I need to boost Test up to 200 I will at the 4 week mark. I will run it for 20 weeks as long as my BW stays healthy. I got some cracked ribs now but am still working out [ no pullovers for me lol ] but will have time to drop more weight, I topped out at 285 but immediately started dieting and lost 10, now 275. My overall target is 290 cut, and will probably take another cycle but when I get there I plan to cruise since I've already gone through enough shirt sizes lol

 

[Chados]

I think 200/400 is good test /deca, var is not gonna help you get rid of a lot of fat. It's some misconception people have. The best oral to shred is winstrol and recomp tbol and injectible tren.

Invalid Link Removed

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

So I would love to use winstrol as a 6 week kicker but it trashes your lipids and I don't know of any ancillary that will control it. I checked your link but 1 I'm not an average guy at 6'4 275 and 2 at 255 none of those meals have enough protein to sustain 255 let alone on cycle.

I could really use a link to point me in a good direction for on cycle diet for my recomp.

 

[Distilled Water]

I’ve seen people run just EQ and have solid results. Not sure on the blood work. EQ/Winstrol is popular. Look into injectable l-carnitine, game changer IMo

Peri workout carbs would be ideal with Pro/veggies the rest of the day with some sort of EFA supplementation. Burn fat all other times of the day with cardio. Two shorter HIIT sessions. Throw a refeed in every few weeks

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

I’ve seen people run just EQ and have solid results. Not sure on the blood work. EQ/Winstrol is popular. Look into injectable l-carnitine, game changer IMo

Peri workout carbs would be ideal with Pro/veggies the rest of the day with some sort of EFA supplementation. Burn fat all other times of the day with cardio. Two shorter HIIT sessions. Throw a refeed in every few weeks

I did a brief search on injectable l carnatine and what I saw was doing a bunch of sub q slin shots in abdominal area then WO. I also read to combine it with insulin for best results. I'll be taking 2iu of novalin R each big meal. This would coincide with what I read about the l carnatine.* Is this about accurate to what you've done?

 

[Distilled Water]

I did a brief search on injectable l carnatine and what I saw was doing a bunch of sub q slin shots in abdominal area then WO. I also read to combine it with insulin for best results. I'll be taking 2iu of novalin R each big meal. This would coincide with what I read about the l carnatine.* Is this about accurate to what you've done?

No sir. God, that would burn so bad lol.

Taking with insulin will help in the initial weeks (I cannot remember the literature). Then dosing on its own should be fine.

400-600mg pined IM before fasted cardio or before training. I took it with 2iu humalog before my workout for the first two weeks then just took a GDA with it before cardio (500mg berberine)

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

No sir. God, that would burn so bad lol.

Taking with insulin will help in the initial weeks (I cannot remember the literature). Then dosing on its own should be fine.

400-600mg pined IM before fasted cardio or before training. I took it with 2iu humalog before my workout for the first two weeks then just took a GDA with it before cardio (500mg berberine)

What I read was sub q was best for spot injections and burns really bad but only for 10 min. Also read if you inject sub q but in a zero fat area like shin, knee elbow it has no burn and hits right away

Where do you pin IM? And how long before meals or WO?

 

[Distilled Water]

What I read was sub q was best for spot injections and burns really bad but only for 10 min. Also read if you inject sub q but in a zero fat area like shin, knee elbow it has no burn and hits right away

Where do you pin IM? And how long before meals or WO?

Don’t believe what you read. Pinning it IM anywhere will be just fine. Spot injections don’t work nearly as well as promoted by very few ppl. GH has better spot reduction then l-carnitine. Plus you’re injecting 2-3mll of water sub-q. That’s just silly to me

15min

 

[MrKleen73]

I’ve seen people run just EQ and have solid results. Not sure on the blood work. EQ/Winstrol is popular. Look into injectable l-carnitine, game changer IMo

Peri workout carbs would be ideal with Pro/veggies the rest of the day with some sort of EFA supplementation. Burn fat all other times of the day with cardio. Two shorter HIIT sessions. Throw a refeed in every few weeks

Distilled has this nailed.

SHort of this you can choose to do do a bit of a deficit non training days and a surplus on training days. Make it average out to your maintenance and you will recomp. YOu want to lean bulk just increase the calories a bit.