Tbol Vs Ostarine

I did my first cycle test winstrol. I gained 30 pounds and kept 20 and I got leaner. I want to add that my body responds insanly well to any steroid. Now tbol is a better bulker but I don't think I would have added that much more cause at one point the body says stop. I would say between 20-30 pounds can be done with this cycle no problem but seems like the majority gains somewhere between 15-20 pounds from their bulking cycles. Food is key here
 
MrKleen73 said:
I have definitely seen the same with gaining and dropping weight with gear after cycles. Heck my first 2 cycles I didn't have a clue about PCT, then again, that was 20+ years ago so not even sure they were being used at that point. Wasn't until the internet became saturated with information that I really started learning anything more than what a typical bro might.

RIght now I am pretty lucky, well not sure if lucky is the right word, but I am making the most out of my TRT by having mini cycles peppered in throughout this year, and tracking bloodwork to stay healthy. So the last 2 oral cycles the only thing I really lost were what I would call glycogen gains... that extra 4-5lbs that you are able to keep in due to the gear just like you mentioned.

As far as maintaining when I was not on TRT and this is obviously anecdotal evidence but the 2 cycles I kept the most from were ones that I was using a cortisol management supplement that I started using 1 week into the PCT. When I did that I did not lose that extra 3-ish lbs during PCT that I used too. So for me anyway that was the best post cycle maintenance of mass gains. Keeping an extra 3 or so pounds was definitely a pretty big deal.
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A lot of people are unaware of the normal physiological response to raise cortisol levels when on androgens for longer than a few weeks. This is a normal, healthy response but it isn't ideal in the first 2-3 weeks into PCT to have little or no anabolic androgens in your system and cortisol sky high as a residual effect from the cycle. It can get you fat and eat a good portion of muscle rather quickly in that vulnerable condition.
 
A great on cycle support is CEL CYCLE ASSIST. Used by many respected members here on AM.
 
YamahaC76 said:
Nice, so with good training and proper diet and macros, what Can I expect to gain/keep of solid muscle excluding water? The combination of Test and the oral (: I assume the oral helps as the Test C ester gets underway.
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...
 
Nice, So regarding Cortisol, this is what Arimistane is best at doing right? I have plenty of that if so. Regarding cycle support ill either run CEL Assist or OL K1ngs Guard snagging a Black Friday deal perhaps. I want to GAIN GAIN GAIN. I want solid muscle my friends. Ill be eating plenty of rice and proteins no problem, veggies, the goods. Regarding the appetite, ill have mk677 ill be using as well, and that stuff helps with appetite for sure.

Regarding PCT, could I run Osta @3mg (clinical study dose) during PCT. Also can we go over how this works with the 'C' ester? Clomid is supposed to start 2 weeks after last Inject? Why do people dose Clomid ED if it has. a long half life?

I'm not opposed to HCG post cycle as well. However I have heard multiple times it is suppressive itself, which is the opposite of trying to get your body to work on its own in the first place.
 
Iv'e seen lots of back and forth on Clomid, anywhere from 12.5mg EOD to 100mg ED for PCT, but I honestly feel that's way too extreme.

Will mk677 help preserve gains in PCT?
 
YamahaC76 said:
Iv'e seen lots of back and forth on Clomid, anywhere from 12.5mg EOD to 100mg ED for PCT, but I honestly feel that's way too extreme.

Will mk677 help preserve gains in PCT?
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I liked to stack with nolva so Clomid can be used lower. Nolva 40/20/20/20 Clomid 50/25/25/25
 
I'm basically just deciding if I want to use Nolva, Clomid, or Ralox. One at a time preferably and the one that prevents estrogen from binding to the breast tissue while On Cycle the most effectivley. I think I am very estrogen sensitive.

Could I possibly use 5mg of Nolva a day On Cycle to prevent binding or is an AI like exemestane good enough?
 
YamahaC76 said:
Iv'e seen lots of back and forth on Clomid, anywhere from 12.5mg EOD to 100mg ED for PCT, but I honestly feel that's way too extreme.

Will mk677 help preserve gains in PCT?
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MK677 can definitely help build LBM. it also increases water retention (by increasing aldosterone) and increases hunger (by increasing gastic motility). if you have a problem eating enough, then MK677 can rectify that pretty quick.... however, not the best compound for dieting, unless you are excellent at keeping your diet in check.

as far as the half life of clomid, the issue is that it is made up of 2 compounds: one has a 12 hour half life and the other has a 5 day half life. as such, daily dosing is needed (FWIW, there is a product called Enclomid, which is made up of the short acting version).

25 mg/day or 50 mg/EOD is the clinical dosing for clomid. many of us here have used that with great success and very little side effects..... one generally does not see side effects until they go up to 50 mg/day+

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/288103-info-serms.html
 
YamahaC76 said:
I'm basically just deciding if I want to use Nolva, Clomid, or Ralox. One at a time preferably and the one that prevents estrogen from binding to the breast tissue while On Cycle the most effectivley. I think I am very estrogen sensitive.

Could I possibly use 5mg of Nolva a day On Cycle to prevent binding or is an AI like exemestane good enough?
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if you need to manage gyno, then I would use Ralox on cycle.

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you also need an AI to control E2, as well (not a SERM)


Nolva also works well for gyno, but there is a mild interaction between Nolva and Arimidex that lowers blood levels of arimidex.

Invalid Link Removed
 
YamahaC76 said:
Iv'e seen lots of back and forth on Clomid, anywhere from 12.5mg EOD to 100mg ED for PCT, but I honestly feel that's way too extreme.

Will mk677 help preserve gains in PCT?
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If it were me...

-Somatozine @ 25mg/day X 8 weeks
-Clomid @ 25mg/day X 6 weeks
-HCG @ 5000 "ish" iu spread over first 10 days of PCT
-Aromasin @ 12.5mg/day X 4-6 weeks

Honorable mentions for those that prefer to overkill PCT, I'd probably also recommend Synthetek products like the B-Complex shot and Syntheselen, which is a B-Complex based ATP product with promising research behind it. I really like that stuff.
 
fueledpassion said:
If it were me...

-Somatozine @ 25mg/day X 8 weeks
-Clomid @ 25mg/day X 6 weeks
-HCG @ 5000 "ish" iu spread over first 10 days of PCT
-Aromasin @ 12.5mg/day X 4-6 weeks

Honorable mentions for those that prefer to overkill PCT, I'd probably also recommend Synthetek products like the B-Complex shot and Syntheselen, which is a B-Complex based ATP product with promising research behind it. I really like that stuff.
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Thank you, all I wanted was a PCT recommendation lol. PM for HCG would be appreciated. I Actually at the moment don't know if I should use ADEX or Aromasin on cycle?

Is nolva really not as effective as Clomid for the HPTA restart?
 
YamahaC76 said:
Thank you, all I wanted was a PCT recommendation lol. PM for HCG would be appreciated. I Actually at the moment don't know if I should use ADEX or Aromasin on cycle?

Is nolva really not as effective as Clomid for the HPTA restart?
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I prefer Aromasin but Adex is probably stronger initially. If you have a higher body fat %, Adex might be warranted. I don't usually need a ton of AI anymore unless I'm taking something like MENT so I am speaking from that POV.

Aromasin is more expensive but I tend to see more consistent results with it and I'm less likely to crush estrogen levels over time with it. Adex works too though. This is not me bashing on Adex just stating a preference.

Nolva is not as effective, but one could argue its a marginal difference in the grand scheme of things. The reason experts recommend Clomid over Nolva isn't directly releted to T levels but more to do with sperm quality. There is more than just T levels that we're trying to restore, you see. Clomid enhances FSH production significantly better than Nolva and that will lead to better sperm count and possibly better sperm life, but will likely not enhance sperm motility. HMG does a wonderful thing for overall sperm quality unlike the rest of them.
 
fueledpassion said:
If it were me...

-Somatozine @ 25mg/day X 8 weeks
-Clomid @ 25mg/day X 6 weeks
-HCG @ 5000 "ish" iu spread over first 10 days of PCT
-Aromasin @ 12.5mg/day X 4-6 weeks

Honorable mentions for those that prefer to overkill PCT, I'd probably also recommend Synthetek products like the B-Complex shot and Syntheselen, which is a B-Complex based ATP product with promising research behind it. I really like that stuff.
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I actually really like your PCT. I'm just not a fan of all the sides I read about clomid. I think ill still take it, I just don't want ocular side effects. But I suspect at that dose I will be fine? Also when does one dose the HCG during the PCT? 1st day with clomid you mean? 500iu EOD is advised to me.

I'm about 15% BF. What dose of ADEX or ASIN would you recommend while 'on'?
 
YamahaC76 said:
I actually really like your PCT. I'm just not a fan of all the sides I read about clomid. I think ill still take it, I just don't want ocular side effects. But I suspect at that dose I will be fine? Also when does one dose the HCG during the PCT? 1st day with clomid you mean? 500iu EOD is advised to me.

I'm about 15% BF. What dose of ADEX or ASIN would you recommend while 'on'?
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I have never experienced any occular side effects and have not ever heard of that even being a side effect of any significant portion or expectation for users. Not to say it doesn't happen but it almost sounds like a bunch of misinformation is floating around the internet about SARMS perhaps being conflated with SERMS. SARMs do in fact have some occular sides, particularly the S-4. But I have not heard or seen such a thing in reasonable doses of Clomid, especially such a mild dose as 25mg/day.

As for HCG, I might would do 1000 EOD til I ran out or hit the two week mark - whichever comes first. Desensitization is a rather difficult thing to do and needs several weeks of use to cause it. 10 days of use would not be a problem and would only speed up recovery in a big way, particularly in bringing back the full size of the testicles and total sperm count.

Adex - start with .25mg ED. Adjust as needed. If your joints start hurting and feel dry or you experience erectile dysfunction, back off. Of course adjust upward if you notice persistent nipple pain or knots forming.

Aromasin - start with 12.5mg ED. Adjust as needed.

Many choose not to do every day dosing but I've come to realize smaller, more frequent dosing is superior in just about any application you can think of, exception being towards a handful of unique compounds and scenarios.
 
You guys have been the biggest help. Whatever happens, happens, but what have you guys found the most helpful for preserving a hairline?

MK677 greatly helped regrow and make all of my hair much thicker. I use Nizoral now, and I understand you leave it in for the ingredient. Rogain is used as well. My hairline is actually not bad at all, but Is slightly receded. So the solution shaving my head would be MORE extreme than just protective measures. Thanks in advance guys!
 
fueledpassion said:
I have never experienced any occular side effects and have not ever heard of that even being a side effect of any significant portion or expectation for users. Not to say it doesn't happen but it almost sounds like a bunch of misinformation is floating around the internet about SARMS perhaps being conflated with SERMS. SARMs do in fact have some occular sides, particularly the S-4. But I have not heard or seen such a thing in reasonable doses of Clomid, especially such a mild dose as 25mg/day.

As for HCG, I might would do 1000 EOD til I ran out or hit the two week mark - whichever comes first. Desensitization is a rather difficult thing to do and needs several weeks of use to cause it. 10 days of use would not be a problem and would only speed up recovery in a big way, particularly in bringing back the full size of the testicles and total sperm count.

Adex - start with .25mg ED. Adjust as needed. If your joints start hurting and feel dry or you experience erectile dysfunction, back off. Of course adjust upward if you notice persistent nipple pain or knots forming.

Aromasin - start with 12.5mg ED. Adjust as needed.

Many choose not to do every day dosing but I've come to realize smaller, more frequent dosing is superior in just about any application you can think of, exception being towards a handful of unique compounds and scenarios.
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ocular side effects (i.e. floaters) are a relatively common side effect from clomid, although I suspect it's very dose-dependent.
 
YamahaC76 said:
You guys have been the biggest help. Whatever happens, happens, but what have you guys found the most helpful for preserving a hairline?

MK677 greatly helped regrow and make all of my hair much thicker. I use Nizoral now, and I understand you leave it in for the ingredient. Rogain is used as well. My hairline is actually not bad at all, but Is slightly receded. So the solution shaving my head would be MORE extreme than just protective measures. Thanks in advance guys!
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MK677 helped you regrow hair??? You sure you didn't just start seeing the results of the Nizoral and Rogain?

You are already doing what you need to do to preserve your hairline. TBol won't cause any hair loss, and lower doses of test should be okay with all of the localized DHT blockers, and AI that you will be using. If it falls out after all of that then you are going to go bald regardless and it is time to accept it. That means you have very DHT sensitive hair follicles.

Also you mentioned you thought you were estrogen sensitive... what makes you think that you are estrogen sensitive? What have you done that increases estrogen enough for you have have an idea how sensitive you are to it? have you ever had gyno, do you have natural gyno?

WAY TOO OFTEN people bloat for some reason, quite often eating too many carbs, or carbs at the wrong time or with too much salt, then think they are estrogen sensitive. Way too many things can increase water retention but every damn time I see someone holding water they want to turn to an AI and it is not beneficial to them. If you are holding water don't mess with hormones drink more fugging water!!!!! That is exactly how you increase the hormones that actually control how much water you are retaining. YES dropping estrogen will make you hold less water, even if you are actually dehydrated and barely holding on to reserves under the skin. Estrogen is way to important of a key player in anabolism and sexual characteristic for it to be the first thing people modify every time they are holding water.

CatSnake said:
ocular side effects (i.e. floaters) are a relatively common side effect from clomid, although I suspect it's very dose-dependent.
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I got them when I was told to run it at 100/50/50/50, was the same time I turned into an overemotional 13 year old girl on her first period! Screw higher doses of clomid, 25mg a day is all you need if it is legit.
 
Thanks mate MrKleen73 . I say I am estrogen sensitive because I have a little pubertal Gyno on my left peck. When I took Ostarine the first time, I felt my sensitivity going up 4 weeks in on that same left side and it occasionally felt burny. I got my estrogen checked and estradiol was at 65. I figured since this is a low number but still above normal range, and already causing irritation I would need my AI to be careful.

You're right about the hair loss, I think I will be fine though. The reason I say mk-677 helped is because even using rogain on the frontal part of my scalp, I never saw such results until the mk677 about one month in. noticeably more hair. iv'e been using rogain here for years. So it is what it is with that! I guess it could be the Nizoral, but I use it EOD really.

EDIT: What counts as low dose Test? lol
 
As far as cycle support, I'm an OL fan boy. It's between ar1micare pro or K1ngsguard. However how strong are the anti-estrogens in the ar1imicare pro? It seems to have more ingredients and seems better overall for what ill be running. It also has the addition of NAC for liver care. Nac VS Tudca?

It's cardiovascular healthcare profile is on point though.
 
YamahaC76 said:
As far as cycle support, I'm an OL fan boy. It's between ar1micare pro or K1ngsguard. However how strong are the anti-estrogens in the ar1imicare pro? It seems to have more ingredients and seems better overall for what ill be running. It also has the addition of NAC for liver care. Nac VS Tudca?

It's cardiovascular healthcare profile is on point though.
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Tudca is great. What were you running again? Decided?
 
CatSnake said:
ocular side effects (i.e. floaters) are a relatively common side effect from clomid, although I suspect it's very dose-dependent.
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What are floaters anyhow? It's impossible to say but that's why I was only going with 25mg as a max dose for clomid, I just want my eyes to be fine. Plenty of Nolva however, can run that 6 weeks at 20mg.
 
YamahaC76 said:
Thanks mate MrKleen73 . I say I am estrogen sensitive because I have a little pubertal Gyno on my left peck. When I took Ostarine the first time, I felt my sensitivity going up 4 weeks in on that same left side and it occasionally felt burny. I got my estrogen checked and estradiol was at 65. I figured since this is a low number but still above normal range, and already causing irritation I would need my AI to be careful.

You're right about the hair loss, I think I will be fine though. The reason I say mk-677 helped is because even using rogain on the frontal part of my scalp, I never saw such results until the mk677 about one month in. noticeably more hair. iv'e been using rogain here for years. So it is what it is with that! I guess it could be the Nizoral, but I use it EOD really.

EDIT: What counts as low dose Test? lol
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To me 500 or under on a cycle. However it looks like between the dht blockers and an AI you really shouldn't have too much excess DHT. DHT is a byproduct of aromatization, and you are blocking that process with the AI so while controlling Estrogen you will also be somewhat controlling excess DHT as well.

Very cool on the hair regrowth with the MK677... I just want mine to stop growing back out all together. LOL

YamahaC76 said:
What are floaters anyhow? It's impossible to say but that's why I was only going with 25mg as a max dose for clomid, I just want my eyes to be fine. Plenty of Nolva however, can run that 6 weeks at 20mg.
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You ever wake up and blink and it almost looks like there is something on your eye. Like something that is barely distorting your view. Almost like looking through little water droplet and you blink them away. That is basically it. I noticed them when my eyes were adjusting to levels of light or first opening them, after being closed for a bit, but it takes a couple blinks and clears up... Wasn't anything like something there at all times. Just something that happens occasionally anyway happening more frequently. It goes away when you stop the clomid and has been a known side effect for a long time.
Nothing to worry about.
 
MrKleen73 said:
To me 500 or under on a cycle. However it looks like between the dht blockers and an AI you really shouldn't have too much excess DHT. DHT is a byproduct of aromatization, and you are blocking that process with the AI so while controlling Estrogen you will also be somewhat controlling excess DHT as well.

Very cool on the hair regrowth with the MK677... I just want mine to stop growing back out all together. LOL



You ever wake up and blink and it almost looks like there is something on your eye. Like something that is barely distorting your view. Almost like looking through little water droplet and you blink them away. That is basically it. I noticed them when my eyes were adjusting to levels of light or first opening them, after being closed for a bit, but it takes a couple blinks and clears up... Wasn't anything like something there at all times. Just something that happens occasionally anyway happening more frequently. It goes away when you stop the clomid and has been a known side effect for a long time.
Nothing to worry about.
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Yeah that's why you do nolva and clomid so you can keep Clomid lower. It kinda makes you tired and I hate it during pct.
 
Chados said:
Yeah that's why you do nolva and clomid so you can keep Clomid lower. It kinda makes you tired and I hate it during pct.
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Yeah or just go Clomid @ 25mg a day for 6 weeks. No issue there either. With this cycle I would think that would be enough. If you are talking about adding in 19-nors that are a little harder to recover from then yeah stacking the deck makes sense. Just running some TBol with some Test should be a pretty easy PCT.

Really comes down to what he wants to spend to feel self assured in the end. If 2 SERMS gives him more confidence then it isn't a bad idea and won't hurt anything. Ideally some HCG the first 2 weeks after Test shots stop then start whatever the SERM of choice is after 14 days and everything should go along swimmingly. Heck even without the HCG it will still be an easy recovery as long as his HPTA is healthy!
 
MrKleen73 said:
Yeah or just go Clomid @ 25mg a day for 6 weeks. No issue there either. With this cycle I would think that would be enough. If you are talking about adding in 19-nors that are a little harder to recover from then yeah stacking the deck makes sense. Just running some TBol with some Test should be a pretty easy PCT.

Really comes down to what he wants to spend to feel self assured in the end. If 2 SERMS gives him more confidence then it isn't a bad idea and won't hurt anything. Ideally some HCG the first 2 weeks after Test shots stop then start whatever the SERM of choice is after 14 days and everything should go along swimmingly. Heck even without the HCG it will still be an easy recovery as long as his HPTA is healthy!
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Definitely going to go with some HCG after my last inject. If that's ideal, then I'm game! I do have an interesting question though. I will run out of Test C before the end, would switching to the Test E ester for the last couple weeks be okay?

Regarding the SERMS, I have plenty of both, have even been advise 12.5mg of Clomid ED has raised numbers well. I just don't want permanent ocular side effects haha.

Possibly a silly question, but does TBOL need to be tapered up? I planned on tapering up with the Test just due to knowing how my body responds to exogenous stims. Ostarine starting at full dose knocked me down really hard. Had me feeling like garbage for days until I started lower and tapered up.
 
YamahaC76 said:
Definitely going to go with some HCG after my last inject. If that's ideal, then I'm game! I do have an interesting question though. I will run out of Test C before the end, would switching to the Test E ester for the last couple weeks be okay?

Regarding the SERMS, I have plenty of both, have even been advise 12.5mg of Clomid ED has raised numbers well. I just don't want permanent ocular side effects haha.

Possibly a silly question, but does TBOL need to be tapered up? I planned on tapering up with the Test just due to knowing how my body responds to exogenous stims. Ostarine starting at full dose knocked me down really hard. Had me feeling like garbage for days until I started lower and tapered up.
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Weird on the ostarine knocking you donw for days. I would taper up if you seem to have odd reactions to new compounds. If you notice there is no issue then just bump to the target dose.

Occular sides are completely transient. AKA they do not stick around even if you get them. Even if you get them they are not a big deal either. Really if you get them you will be like, "Oh that's what that is, no big deal..."
 
MrKleen73 said:
Weird on the ostarine knocking you donw for days. I would taper up if you seem to have odd reactions to new compounds. If you notice there is no issue then just bump to the target dose.

Occular sides are completely transient. AKA they do not stick around even if you get them. Even if you get them they are not a big deal either. Really if you get them you will be like, "Oh that's what that is, no big deal..."
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This seems to be the case with any "substance" haha. Concerning the Test E, there is no harm in finishing up with 2 weeks of that correct? I may even push to 16 weeks if I am side free long enough. Gotta get all the use out of this haha.

Never asked, but since you guys are here today, if I do get "puffy nipples", what is the protocol for this so I don't over-react to my situation. I definitely would freak out about gyno if this happened so I just want a handbook explanation/quick guide.
 
Gyno is not gonna happen overnight, it can take a while for it to develope to something bad but itcht nipples and kinda stinging pain, a lump under the nipple. Nolva 20 mg ed but go for an ai to keep estro down.
 
Chados said:
Gyno is not gonna happen overnight, it can take a while for it to develope to something bad but itcht nipples and kinda stinging pain, a lump under the nipple. Nolva 20 mg ed but go for an ai to keep estro down.
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Got it. With that said though, my concern is with my pre -existing lump under the nipple at the moment, rather than one developing. Although I suspect I would be dealing with it all the same.
 
YamahaC76 said:
Got it. With that said though, my concern is with my pre -existing lump under the nipple at the moment, rather than one developing. Although I suspect I would be dealing with it all the same.
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Clomid and bolva will probably remove that lump and you'll you'll surprise how flat the are under your nipple will be. I had one before that was quite big since I experienced estrogen, keep an ai on hand or use it during cycle. If you keep estrogen under check it won't develope even during cycle.
 
Is Arimistane really an anti-estrogen or not? I can't seem to find a real consensus on this. I want to use Ar1micare pro for the cycle but won't if it could be counter-productive.


Also, Not intending for this to sound ridiculous, but how can I avoid injury on cycle? I saw some users experience tears from the gear helping them push harder and harder.
 
YamahaC76 said:
Is Arimistane really an anti-estrogen or not? I can't seem to find a real consensus on this. I want to use Ar1micare pro for the cycle but won't if it could be counter-productive.


Also, Not intending for this to sound ridiculous, but how can I avoid injury on cycle? I saw some users experience tears from the gear helping them push harder and harder.
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Warm up and supplement with taurine and potassium.
 
YamahaC76 said:
Is Arimistane really an anti-estrogen or not? I can't seem to find a real consensus on this. I want to use Ar1micare pro for the cycle but won't if it could be counter-productive.


Also, Not intending for this to sound ridiculous, but how can I avoid injury on cycle? I saw some users experience tears from the gear helping them push harder and harder.
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Yes it is. You're not gonna crush the gains of you don't overuse it. you do tbol/test ? That's is a quite mild cycle if you don't go super high on the test or you're prone to gyno. life with too much estrogen sucks, pimples, bloat, painfull nipples. Nah not worth it.
 
Chados said:
Yes it is. You're not gonna crush the gains of you don't overuse it. you do tbol/test ? That's is a quite mild cycle if you don't go super high on the test or you're prone to gyno. life with too much estrogen sucks, pimples, bloat, painfull nipples. Nah not worth it.
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Yeah just be careful not overusing it. Whatever you think you should take, start with a bit less then adjust only if you experience sides.
 
If one could do a favor, check out the profile on OL Ar1micare pro. Ill be taking half of a serving on that, which equates to about 25mg of Arimistane plus another anti estrogen. I Would assume this, plus .25mg of ADEX E3D would be enough?

How much more potent is Exemesatne vs Arimistane? I'm guessing exponentially. Chados , you said it. I think my test serum is low and estrogen naturally a bit higher than others. Ill drop my estrogen from time to time with Arimistane or 6.25mg of exemestane and feel MUCH better for days.

Test serum naturally sits around 500, E2 is around 35
 
YamahaC76 said:
If one could do a favor, check out the profile on OL Ar1micare pro. Ill be taking half of a serving on that, which equates to about 25mg of Arimistane plus another anti estrogen. I Would assume this, plus .25mg of ADEX E3D would be enough?

How much more potent is Exemesatne vs Arimistane? I'm guessing exponentially. Chados , you said it. I think my test serum is low and estrogen naturally a bit higher than others. Ill drop my estrogen from time to time with Arimistane or 6.25mg of exemestane and feel MUCH better for days.

Test serum naturally sits around 500, E2 is around 35
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I think you can run adex at 0.25 here with no problems. If not you can go to 0.5. We're all different keep that in mind but i ran tren 0.25. The dosing for each person is impossible to guess. There's a chance you won't notice gyno even without ai.

Strongly suggest you to run gw also known as cardarine through cycle and pct. Extremly good energy, fatburning, lowers cortisol and helping with blood pressure. It'll make the cycle cleaner and easier to keep the gains since the cortisol will hit you during pct which will increase your fatgains.
 
I had a question. Researching TBOL online, I routinely find that it says its anabolic/androgenic ratio is something like 56/6 And the article will state it's half as anabolic as test. What's the point of stacking it with test if it isn't as potent anabolically? Or clearly I'm missing something?
 
YamahaC76 said:
I had a question. Researching TBOL online, I routinely find that it says its anabolic/androgenic ratio is something like 56/6 And the article will state it's half as anabolic as test. What's the point of stacking it with test if it isn't as potent anabolically? Or clearly I'm missing something?
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The on paper ratio doesn’t necessarily translate to real life results. But, Tbol would be more for lean gains, strength, hardening, things like that.
 
So, The cycle looks like this.

Weeks 1-12 (maybe16) Test C @500mg
Weeks 1-8 50mg Tbol
Adex @ .25mg E3D
HCG: 250 IU EOD considering it's 36 hour half life.
Ar1imicare pro half serving daily w/ 250mg added tudca
(6 weeks worth of ostarine, may throw it in for joint and tendon benefits. They're real for sure)

HCG continued following last injection up until Term @ 250IU

Clomid 25/25/0/0
Nolva 0/0/20/20/10/10
Adex when needed.

I have a question regarding HCG. I always thought using on cycle was pointless, because you're shut down anyway but was looking at this from the wrong angle.I read an extensive article on this forum about how the Leydig cells become damaged if they don't receive LH for an extended period of time, and thusly following, nobody that didn't use HCG on cycle regained full function of their testicles. This is CRAZY. I had no idea guys and plan to use HCG on cycle for sure now. Can maybe somebody elaborate on this? I want to be G2G when all is said and done after the cycle, and not royally screw up my jewels!!!
 
Just think 8 weeks oral is overkill, you don't really wanna exceed 6 and I doubt you'll notice much not with 8
 
YamahaC76 said:
So, The cycle looks like this.

Weeks 1-12 (maybe16) Test C @500mg
Weeks 1-8 50mg Tbol
Adex @ .25mg E3D
HCG: 250 IU EOD considering it's 36 hour half life.
Ar1imicare pro half serving daily w/ 250mg added tudca
(6 weeks worth of ostarine, may throw it in for joint and tendon benefits. They're real for sure)

HCG continued following last injection up until Term @ 250IU

Clomid 25/25/0/0
Nolva 0/0/20/20/10/10
Adex when needed.

I have a question regarding HCG. I always thought using on cycle was pointless, because you're shut down anyway but was looking at this from the wrong angle.I read an extensive article on this forum about how the Leydig cells become damaged if they don't receive LH for an extended period of time, and thusly following, nobody that didn't use HCG on cycle regained full function of their testicles. This is CRAZY. I had no idea guys and plan to use HCG on cycle for sure now. Can maybe somebody elaborate on this? I want to be G2G when all is said and done after the cycle, and not royally screw up my jewels!!!
Click to expand...

I think it just depends on the length of the cycle and the condition of your Leydig cells prior to cycling. One cycle per year at 12-16 weeks is probably not going to cause much damage, assuming HCG and Clomid are used in proper dosages and length thereafter.

Its the oxidation that causes issues though. Taurine reduces testicle oxidation as well so for those not able to run HCG can use that during cycle instead.
 
fueledpassion said:
I think it just depends on the length of the cycle and the condition of your Leydig cells prior to cycling. One cycle per year at 12-16 weeks is probably not going to cause much damage, assuming HCG and Clomid are used in proper dosages and length thereafter.

Its the oxidation that causes issues though. Taurine reduces testicle oxidation as well so for those not able to run HCG can use that during cycle instead.
Click to expand...

My issue is preserving HCG shelf life. Most of the time they come in 5000-10000 IU kits, and at the dose I'd be using weekly, (750iu) I cannot justify wasting 3/5ths of an HCG kit before it is no longer active after reconstituted. So does anybody have a remedy for this?
 
I don't remember ifyou can freeze it. I think you can but someone else can verify that. If so then just mix it all up, pull into pins and freeze the pins. I know I did this for peptides that were safe to freeze once. I can't remember on HCG because I don't use it on my TRT,
 
MrKleen73 said:
I don't remember ifyou can freeze it. I think you can but someone else can verify that. If so then just mix it all up, pull into pins and freeze the pins. I know I did this for peptides that were safe to freeze once. I can't remember on HCG because I don't use it on my TRT,
Click to expand...

I believe you can freeze it prior to reconstituting it, but could be wrong....
 
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