Ape McGrapes
Well-known member
Good to know. Thanks.
Mk 677 What's the verdict
- Thread starter Godstrength
- Start date
DemntedCowboy
Well-known member
Why dont you try it out yourself and come to your own conclusion then. And who says that not everyone should use this product
mase1
Well-known member
Try it and see how you like it. I get lethargy and crazy hunger. But I am willing to try again. Great positives but I do get the above negatives for me. I do agree if you feel good on it then take it as long as you can afford it.
Gonna have to try mikes product at half dose and be golden
Gonna have to try mikes product at half dose and be golden
Todd boliek
New member
So mr medals research is good?
Ricky10
Well-known member
Sorry to play devil's advocate, but I found this article rather interesting...
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After having a renewed interest in MK-677 due to all the attention it is getting recently, I started MK-677 at 10mg/day which I had leftover from a prior "trial" or two. My plan was to start with this product, and then continue with one of the aforementioned products in this thread...now I am not so sure I am willing to give it another trial..
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After having a renewed interest in MK-677 due to all the attention it is getting recently, I started MK-677 at 10mg/day which I had leftover from a prior "trial" or two. My plan was to start with this product, and then continue with one of the aforementioned products in this thread...now I am not so sure I am willing to give it another trial..
alvin1
Well-known member
interesting!
mase1
Well-known member
I will say my muscle bellies love mk677 but my hunger and abdominal area increase too much. But much like Ricky 10 I have done several trials and after a couple weeks push it to the back if my cabinet. After my chaos and pain log I will try it again. The potential anti aging is all I care about, muscle pump is nice though.
Ricky10
Well-known member
Same thing here exactly. I ultimately always determine that I look worse and oddly enough, it does not take that long...so back into the supplement cabinet abyss it goes!
I have been doing 10mg for approximately a week. I have definitely noticed an increase in lethargy, and abdominal distention/water retention. Whatever it is, certainly is not an enhancement. I am always looking for the best supplements to enhance my fitness goals, but at this time, I am thinking that my last dose of MK-677 will be the one that I took last night.
Ricky10
Well-known member
Honestly, I think it is the decreased glucose tolerance and alteration in the way we metabolize and store energy...per the article above.
Ricky10
Well-known member
Yes...I am very tempted to give that a spin! I was going to wait for some reviews but I do like to experiment with new things so whatever...haha!
BamBam0319
Well-known member
On the contrary, I've never been less distended, even on 25mg... for me, it's all about what I eat.
Ricky10
Well-known member
Yeah, it's recent posts like yours that got me re-interested in it again. After finding the above article though, that seems to more accurately describe the effect it has with me...
Garyboy
Member
Same here. Girlfriend says I look pregnant when I'm relaxing my mid-section. This stuff packs on the weight even with a decrease in caps.
Wagz86
Member
What's funny is. I'm normally the fluffy guy. I've always had extra skin from being fat when I was in high school. And love handles etc are still a tad saggy. And honestly I've gotten nothing but compliments since starting this. People's say I look thicker up top and skinnier in the waist
Ricky10
Well-known member
Somatozine?
THOR 70
Well-known member
Same with my buddy that took it.
Let me know if you find a way to shrink it lol. Think I might work in vacuums daily and fast
Mike Arnold
Board Sponsor
If you're going to play the Devil's Advocate, I will accept the challenge.
Let me start off by stating the obvious. This study is totally inapplicable to MK-677 users in every way! Why?
Well, aside from the fact the study used rats as test subjects, let's look at what the study is actually all about...
First of all, this study was conducted--I know this next sentence is a mouthful--to determine what effects super-high levels of ghrelin would have on both appetite and fat mass in rats which had their ghrelin receptors genetically modified to become super-sensitive to the effects of ghrelin. In other words, not only are we NOT dealing with humans, but we're not even dealing with rats. We're dealing with unnatural rats which were genetically altered specifically so that they would NOT respond to ghrelin normally. In fact, it completely changed the way these rats responded to ghrelin--a fact which previous studies confirmed and which was readily acknowledged by the researchers. This alone makes any comparison to non-genetically modified human beings completely irrelevant, but we'll get back to that in a moment.
Basically, the researchers wanted to know two things. One, what effects would super high levels of ghrelin have on the appetites of genetically modified rats and two, how it would it effect them in terms of fat loss/maintenance. How did these rats respond?
The genetically modified rats did not experience any increase in hunger when exposed to ghrelin. However, in previous studies using non-genetically modified rats, ghrelin DID increase the hunger response...just like it does in humans. I mean, being that we already know that both ghrelin and ghrelin mimetics (like MK-677) DO increase hunger in both non-genetically animals and humans, this aspect of the study clearly means nothing to us.
When it came to fat loss/maintenance, the researchers noticed that the genetically modified rats were more likely to maintain bodyfat (and lean mass) when exposed to periods of caloric deprivation, but once again, previous studies utilizing no-genetically modified rats showed that ghrelin did not have this effect.
Being that we already know that humans don't respond to MK-677 in the same way that genetically modified rats respond to super high levels of ghrelin (heck, not even normal mice respond like the genetically modified mice), I am straining to see the relevance of this study. MK-677 clearly DOES enhances appetite in the large majority of people...and many have reported significant fat loss. I don't know of a single person who said they had more difficulty losing fat while using MK, but I do know of countless others who said that not only did MK make fat loss easier, but it also enabled them to maintain lean mass far more easily. Of course, considering the fact that these numerous anecdotal reports also line up with clinical studies, I just don't see how the above study is relevant at all...let alone sufficient for swaying your opinion regarding MK usage.
I mean, it would be one thing if people were reporting results similar to what these genetically modified rats experienced, but they're not...not even close. Not even normal rats respond like the genetically modified rats! Normal rats respond like us! Of course, virtually every clinical study ever conducted on MK-677 has demonstrated similar results.
The bottom line is that we already know that MK-677 stimulates the appetite in the majority of users, adds significant lean mass, and speeds fat loss (it certainly doesn't add fat), so who cares if some group of rats, who weren't even using MK-677, didn't respond normally to ghrelin in their genetically modified state. They weren't supposed to! Their ghrelin receptors were genetically modified for that very reason!
Mike Arnold
Board Sponsor
LOL. No, bro. It's water retention. It happens with GH and insulin as well, but then again, Mk doesn't cause this effect in everyone either. I won't even acknowledge the GH gut comment, as it is so far outside the realm of reality I can't bring myself to elaborate on it again.
justhere4comm
Banned
So, if you gain fat without eating anything more than your usual caloric intake, you've been genetically modified = Alien. I think we have a litmus test for aliens. Queue 'aliens meme'. 
Mike Arnold
Board Sponsor
MK-677 is for mass gaining and mass retaining purposes. It's not for the guys who want to be as hard and dry as possible all year-round--the chronic winstrol and var types. It is for the guys who want to be big and round...and grow. GH has the same effect in many people--water retention (leading to possible distension, but not in everyone), but yet many people still love GH...just like they love MK. They love having that big, full, round look.
As long as they are sufficiently lean, most people don't consider slight water repetition too detrimental to their appearance, but what looks good to one person may not look good to another. There are some steroid users out there who won't use anything but the non-aromatizing AAS like primo, var, Winstrol, etc. They want to be as dry and hard as possible all year round. As soon as they gain even a little water, or their ab lines fade even the slightest bit (even though their bodyfat is the same) it is game over for them.
However, there are many other guys who love the test, Deca, Anadrol/SD, and insulin look. They love the massive size, fullness, roundness and vascularity. they would rather be big and strong than smaller and dry.
Like I've told people many times before, if they care more about being dry than they do about being big and growing, then MK/GH is not for them...and neither is insulin for that matter.
Ricky10
Well-known member
Mike Arnold
Thanks for your thorough responses, as always! As you may recall, I was excited to order Somatozine during this current sale (last day?). I then happened to randomly come across the above article, I don't even remember specifically what I was initially looking up to be honest. While what you say does make sense in that the rats were genetically modified, and the fact that they are rats to begin with, I think it still possibly puts a twist on our initial understanding of ghrelin..
A little fluid retention I can live with, the thing that concerns me the most are the potential metabolic consequences. I just read a couple more articles and they do state that ghrelin in is linked to metabolic disorders and adiposity. I think I recall that you have stated that MK-677 does in fact cause an elevation in blood glucose levels, opposing people's prior theory that they felt lethargic due to the fact that they were hypoglycemic.
I am really just trying to get a better understanding Mike, I just keep finding contradictory information. At the same time, I don't want to miss out on a great product!
This article seemed quite informative. I would have to take a few stimulants to actually get through all of it though...maybe later!
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Thanks for your thorough responses, as always! As you may recall, I was excited to order Somatozine during this current sale (last day?). I then happened to randomly come across the above article, I don't even remember specifically what I was initially looking up to be honest. While what you say does make sense in that the rats were genetically modified, and the fact that they are rats to begin with, I think it still possibly puts a twist on our initial understanding of ghrelin..
A little fluid retention I can live with, the thing that concerns me the most are the potential metabolic consequences. I just read a couple more articles and they do state that ghrelin in is linked to metabolic disorders and adiposity. I think I recall that you have stated that MK-677 does in fact cause an elevation in blood glucose levels, opposing people's prior theory that they felt lethargic due to the fact that they were hypoglycemic.
I am really just trying to get a better understanding Mike, I just keep finding contradictory information. At the same time, I don't want to miss out on a great product!
This article seemed quite informative. I would have to take a few stimulants to actually get through all of it though...maybe later!
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Mike Arnold
Board Sponsor
Mike Arnold
Thanks for your thorough responses, as always! As you may recall, I was excited to order Somatozine during this current sale (last day?). I then happened to randomly come across the above article, I don't even remember specifically what I was initially looking up to be honest. While what you say does make sense in that the rats were genetically modified, and the fact that they are rats to begin with, I think it still possibly puts a twist on our initial understanding of ghrelin..
A little fluid retention I can live with, the thing that concerns me the most are the potential metabolic consequences. I just read a couple more articles and they do state that ghrelin in is linked to metabolic disorders and adiposity
I'll address ghrelin's effect on both metabolism (as it relates to elevated blood glucose) and adiposity. Yes, ghrelin is "linked" to fat gain, but NOT because it directly causes fat gain. It is linked to adiposity because ghrelin is the body's hunger hormone, so the higher ghrelin levels rise, the more people want to eat. The research confirms this, with obese people having been shown to have above-average ghrelin levels. For some, this increase in appetite (which is well known) is a benefit of ghrelin mimetics like MK-677...and for others it's not. It just depends on the person's metabolic rate and goals.
In terms of blood glucose levels, it's been well established that ANY rise in GH levels (such as those caused by MK-677) causes a corresponding decrease in insulin sensitivity, which can and often does result in an increase in blood glucose concentrations. However, the research is abundantly clear that this increase in BG concentrations (when using MK-677 at doses up to 50 mg/day) is minor and certainly nowhere near what is required to cause metabolic diseases such as type II diabetes, etc. In fact, not only is this increase in BG concentrations easily ameliorated through the implementation of OTC sensitizers (berberine is a great example), but many of the risk factors society engages in every day (ex. poor diet, a lack of exercise,obesity, etc) are FAR more problematic from a BG control standpoint and way more likely to lead to diabetes and other metabolic disorders. It is these things we need to watch out for. The likelihood of a bodybuilder who engages in regular exercises (often both weight training and cardio) and clean eating habits stands ZERO chance of developing even semi-serious blood sugar regulation issues from MK-677 usage. The fact that almost all bodybuilders are significantly leaner than the average citizen (and way leaner than the typical obese person, which is a huge risk factor is the development of type II diabetes), just makes a bodybuilder even less likely. Oh...and another thing bodybuilders have in their favor is that they carry a relatively large amount of muscle mass, which GREATLY reduces the likelihood of developing any type of BG related issues. Basically, it is almost impossible for someone living the bodybuilding lifestyle to develop even semi-serious blood glucose regulation problems. Pretty much the ONLY time we have ever seen this happen is when bodybuilders are abusing massive dosages of both GH and insulin long-term; a scenario not even remotely comparable to MK usage. Even under these circumstances, few bodybuilders end up developing actual Type II diabetes. There have been a decent number of heavy GH and insulin abusers who have been diagnosed as "pre" diabetic, but this diagnosis usually reverses itself upon discontinuation of the offending substances. The bottom line is that while MK use can cause slight elevations in BG levels, it is nowhere even close to what we see with diabetics or even pre-diabetics. The fact that we can completely eliminate this issue through the concomitant use of OTC sensitizers really makes it a non-issues in my opinion, but even without the use of an OTC sensitizer, not a single researcher that clinically studied the effects of MK-677 in human beings thought that its effects on BG regulation merited any sort of concern. All in all, I think MK is one of the last things bodybuilders should be worried about from a BG regulation standpoint. If someone is concerned about their insulin sensitivity (which is directly related to poor BG regulation), they should focus on eliminating/minimizing the risk factors that are far more likely to cause problems.
. I think I recall that you have stated that MK-677 does in fact cause an elevation in blood glucose levels, opposing people's prior theory that they felt lethargic due to the fact that they were hypoglycemic.
I believe the lethargic feeling (not everyone experiences it) sometimes encountered with MK-677 is from elevated GH levels, not elevated BG levels. For one, lethargy is a common side effect of GH elevation. This also happens when using injectable growth hormone. However, hyperglycemia-induced lethargy typically isn't even noticeable until one gets FAR outside the normal range. People often don't even realize they have a problem until they are 200+...and often even then they aren't aware. Going from a BG reading of 95 to 110 (a fairly normal increase for MK) is hardly comparable and will be imperceptible to almost everyone.
I am really just trying to get a better understanding Mike, I just keep finding contradictory information. At the same time, I don't want to miss out on a great product!
I understand.
This article seemed quite informative. I would have to take a few stimulants to actually get through all of it though...maybe later!
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See bold above.
Ricky10
Well-known member
Excellent info, and thank you for taking the time to go so in depth! Maybe I will change my mind again and order Somatozine after all...haha
The way you describe ghrelin was more or less how I originally understood it when I bought my bottle of MK last year. I was also definitely under the impression for the longest time that the potential lethargy was caused from hypoglycemia, as that was the belief everyone seemed to bounce off each other for some odd reason. Now it really does not make any sense..
I actually just started working in a GDA (really for the first time on a consistent basis) just a few days ago. Not sure I like this one so I do have another on the way to try. Are there any specific GDA ingredients that go well (or not well) with MK-677 that you are aware of?
Also, I was curious about how effective you think ingredients such as Hesperidin, Atractylodin, and Gentian are as ghrelin agonists?
justhere4comm
Banned
I've just begun using a GDA supplement with Berberine (97%), and Banaba Leaf Extract. It was on sale and fairly well regarded so no real investment, and I missed the Predator special which I would have jumped on. Nice profile there too. The main player here is the Berberine as it acts in the same way Metformin does but better.
I think it will help greatly with a less than stellar clean diet, along with keeping insulin sensitivity.
I think it will help greatly with a less than stellar clean diet, along with keeping insulin sensitivity.
Ricky10
Well-known member
Yup, I remember reading that, along with Huperzine-a. Mike says it is all about the Melatonin though..
Suvtwo
New member
Some research says that cortisol gose threw the roof first ten to twelve day of starting mk677.Then gh pushes levels way back down then the lethergy starts to kick in.i have used 11oxo 7 keto before many times and have the same issue of feeling lethargic it is after all an adrenaline and energy hormone.could the lethargy be a cortisol issue on mk677 ?
The Whizard
Member
I felt lethargic about the first 2-3 weeks then fine after using Mikes MK. Just have to wait it out then you're good to go. Get as much sleep as you can and it handles the lethargy.
fordmandiesel
Member
I just ordered some somatozine from mike, hopefully I can report back with good results, my last mk run didn't go so hot for me, headaches, ichy scalp, and some nip issues, some say it may have been prolactin issues, ive been on the fence past couple years about trying again but i always read good things about it, should I stack somatozine with something els?
Wagz86
Member
Actually that's what I was just wanting to steer this thread to being about. I'm reading a lot of guys are dosing EGCG throughout the day while on MK there's also somastatin inhibitors. I probably spelled that way wrong. These are things I'm looking into as well. If I'm going to be on long term (which I am) may as well make the most out of every day.
Nac
Well-known member
StanleyG mentioned using green tea extract a few times in his mk677 thread. You migh have to do a search through his posts to find out his scientific justification
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justhere4comm
Banned
L-Arginine is another somastatin inhibitor.
Ape McGrapes
Well-known member
Just popped my 2nd 25mg dose with a cap of slintensity.
Ricky10
Well-known member
I think I already know the answer to this question but I will ask it anyway:
Has anyone been dosing Somatozine not particularly before bed, or possibly in the morning? I realize this would be somewhat contraindicated given the melatonin content. If anyone has...how did it go?
I only ask because I do shift work and sometimes I am up for 36, sometimes 48 hrs. I have a normal sleep schedule during my off days so that is no problem. On the nights I have to go in to work, I am not so sure a hit of melatonin would be the best idea
Has anyone been dosing Somatozine not particularly before bed, or possibly in the morning? I realize this would be somewhat contraindicated given the melatonin content. If anyone has...how did it go?
I only ask because I do shift work and sometimes I am up for 36, sometimes 48 hrs. I have a normal sleep schedule during my off days so that is no problem. On the nights I have to go in to work, I am not so sure a hit of melatonin would be the best idea
Mike Arnold
Board Sponsor
Actually, every study I've ever seen says that cortisol levels either barely increased (remained within the normal range), or they didn't go up at all. Furthermore, as you mentioned, this effect was transient.
So no, the lethargy wouldn't be cortisol related, as mild cortisol elevations don't cause lethargy. In fact, cortisol INCREASES energy levels. Cortisol is a fight or flight hormone which prepares the body for stress. MK induced lethargy is GH related.
Mike Arnold
Board Sponsor
LOL.
Not everyone experiences this...and of those who do, it usually goes away after just a few weeks of regular use.
BamBam0319
Well-known member
No lethargy 4 me... Mike, did you see my question for you in my log?
Mike Arnold
Board Sponsor
Not yet. I'll look.
Mike Arnold
Board Sponsor
I didn't say its all about the melatonin. LOL.
It's just one of several compounds clinically proven to further assist with GH, IGF-1, and IGFBP-3 production.
BBiceps
Well-known member
Lol, I was semi serious, I have Adderall and was thinking that that should take care of it, it's no interaction between the 2 right?
fordmandiesel
Member
Does anyone recommend training differently on mk677 vs naturally? ive been training for many years and different PHs and DS cycles but past 2 naturally and have been following an every other day, half push half pull routine with decent results, i ordered some somatozine i know its not a bulker but I'm going to be in a caloric surplus for sure not looking to get any thinner I'm in decent shape as is just looking to heal some injuries and see what kind of lbs i can gain in the same run, think i should try to do something geared more towards training every day?