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Rich Piana

That is such inconvenient timing. 2 deaths of VERY well known names in the industry within 72 hours of each other.
 
BamBam0319 said:
That is such inconvenient timing. 2 deaths of VERY well known names in the industry within 72 hours of each other.
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Piana has been on the way out for a couple weeks now. Was in a coma from xanax and sleeping pills. Everyone will still blame it on the juice though
 
yates84 said:
Piana has been on the way out for a couple weeks now. Was in a coma from xanax and sleeping pills. Everyone will still blame it on the juice though
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That's largely why I think it's so inconvenient. I'm not at all surprised by this, but still shocked at Dallas. My coach has an interesting theory about his death.
 
yates84 said:
Piana has been on the way out for a couple weeks now. Was in a coma from xanax and sleeping pills. Everyone will still blame it on the juice though
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Is that what the cause was? I hadn't seen anything about that. All the media seemed to be interested in was the 20 bottles of test.
 
SFreed said:
Is that what the cause was? I hadn't seen anything about that. All the media seemed to be interested in was the 20 bottles of test.
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What I heard from a few different sources but not confirmed
 
One source said he collapsed while his partner cut his hair and she was told to start cpr, that didn't work and when the paramedics arrived they noticed white powder white a straw and a credit card on a table
 
So I win?
 
BamBam0319 said:
That's largely why I think it's so inconvenient. I'm not at all surprised by this, but still shocked at Dallas. My coach has an interesting theory about his death.
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Does it have something to do with possible DVT/ Clogged artery from that nasty bronchial infections a few months ago?
 
jt75 said:
One source said he collapsed while his partner cut his hair and she was told to start cpr, that didn't work and when the paramedics arrived they noticed white powder white a straw and a credit card on a table
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Wouldn't be the first time the booger sugar stopped a heart in its tracks.

This sucks every which way though. I'm trying to imagine my YouTube experience without the occasional Piana perspectives on various subjects. I don't like it.
 
Apparently Rich is dead.

DAVE PALUMBO:

[video=youtube;UQ6dhkxVqW0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ6dhkxVqW0[/video]
 
fueledpassion said:
Does it have something to do with possible DVT/ Clogged artery from that nasty bronchial infections a few months ago?
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Yeah sorta. Clogged artery, dislodged by spending a bunch of time on his brand new inversion table. All that blood rushing to your head causing high pressure in areas that aren't accustomed to it. Plus he was doing crunches and stuff on it, putting himself into an even higher pressure situation.
I'm not so sure he ever actually had a respiratory infection btw
 
BamBam0319 said:
Yeah sorta. Clogged artery, dislodged by spending a bunch of time on his brand new inversion table. All that blood rushing to your head causing high pressure in areas that aren't accustomed to it. Plus he was doing crunches and stuff on it, putting himself into an even higher pressure situation.
I'm not so sure he ever actually had a respiratory infection btw
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well, that's taking things at face value. Passing out on stage is undoubtedly from dehydration. I just don't get why he took the approach of diuretics + cutting water. Always made him look soft and watery. He just needed to chug water and take in plenty of sodium and maybe take diuretics that way (which isn't dangerous when you are drinking 2-3G per day and supplementing the right salts and minerals).

Anyways, I actually met Dallas a few times at various competitions, as we grew up in the same area. He regularly attended the Memphis, Nashville and Tunica, MS shows.

regarding the inversion table...are you suggesting we should be careful with those? I would like for his coach or friends to reveal his supplement use (not his illicit gear). I want to know if this guy was actually taking care of his body with proper supplements to address arterial health or if he was still acting liking a typical 26 year old who wants to be huge.

BTW, that's not a slam on Dallas - dude was incredibly cordial and mature as far as I could tell and I spent enough time around him to get a decent impression of the guy. We won't see another set of calves like that for at least another 10-20 years. 24" calves (and ripped) is something to be seen in the flesh.

I can't preach enough to people why supplements like Curcumin, Nattokinase, Vit K-2, Garlic & Trimetazidine are important to take year round while using steroids, even if you are just cycling once or twice per year.
 
fueledpassion I'm suggesting to maybe not spend a ton of time on it or do a bunch of exercises with it right off the bat, as one is wont to do when you've got yourself a new toy.
I've met him as well and he was one of the nicest, calmest people I've met when attending shows, expos, etc.
 
fueledpassion said:
well, that's taking things at face value. Passing out on stage is undoubtedly from dehydration. I just don't get why he took the approach of diuretics + cutting water. Always made him look soft and watery. He just needed to chug water and take in plenty of sodium and maybe take diuretics that way (which isn't dangerous when you are drinking 2-3G per day and supplementing the right salts and minerals).

Anyways, I actually met Dallas a few times at various competitions, as we grew up in the same area. He regularly attended the Memphis, Nashville and Tunica, MS shows.

regarding the inversion table...are you suggesting we should be careful with those? I would like for his coach or friends to reveal his supplement use (not his illicit gear). I want to know if this guy was actually taking care of his body with proper supplements to address arterial health or if he was still acting liking a typical 26 year old who wants to be huge.

BTW, that's not a slam on Dallas - dude was incredibly cordial and mature as far as I could tell and I spent enough time around him to get a decent impression of the guy. We won't see another set of calves like that for at least another 10-20 years. 24" calves (and ripped) is something to be seen in the flesh.

I can't preach enough to people why supplements like Curcumin, Nattokinase, Vit K-2, Garlic & Trimetazidine are important to take year round while using steroids, even if you are just cycling once or twice per year.
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Those supps will do barely nothing with the doses the top pro's use. Beta blockers/ ace inhibitors/ statines and that Kinda stuff will do more at that level.

I do agree that the supps you listed are beneficial for the 'average Joe' cycles. I like red yeast Rice with co10 for cholesterol/heart health
 
J T Vest's 'tribute' is pretty moving.

[video=youtube;U9QzQFUYFvw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9QzQFUYFvw[/video]
 
Mucci said:
Those supps will do barely nothing with the doses the top pro's use. Beta blockers/ ace inhibitors/ statines and that Kinda stuff will do more at that level.

I do agree that the supps you listed are beneficial for the 'average Joe' cycles. I like red yeast Rice with co10 for cholesterol/heart health
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I'm not following. It's as if you think these supps do the same things as most of the pharma products - they do not. But that aside, Nattokinase is the same as warfarin just a shorter half life. The goal isn't to artificially keep blood pressure down - although there is obvious benefits to that and should be attempted on cycle. The goal is to avoid arterial inflammation via diet, cardio and supplementation. Avoid arterial damage and you avoid ever needing your LDL cholesterol to plug holes in the arteries to begin with. It's the constant repair of arterial damage that causes blockages. Vitamin K-2 is very effective at ensuring no calcium/plaque build-up in the arteries as well as ensuring healthy bones. It's even more effective than calcium at preventing/treating osteoporosis. It is a staple of staples for a blast and cruise cycler.

ACE-II inhibitors are good and are a staple that I happened to not mention in that list but the point isn't so much the exact supplements, the point is to address both BP and arterial damage-plaque build-up to avoid long term health consequences.

Natto, enalipril, vit K-2 and trimetazidine are in fact easily potent enought to combat BP and arterial wall hardening. The rest of the supps should be geared around avoiding inflammation. Also, while I can't be sure of what doses Dallas was taking, based on what I already know, these guys average less than a gram year round of androgens. That's a good bit of gear but not untreatable.

The trade secrets have gotten far more effective at keeping bodybuilders healthy. The new problem these pros face is not the direct effect from the gear itself, but from the sheer size of the body. The heart cannot reliably handle a lean 280-340lbs for indefinite periods of time. Lean tissue demands FAR more from a heart than fat tissue and as much as I hate to say it, in certain ways, a fat 300lb body has a better chance at avoiding a heart attack than lean 300lb body. This is why I've personally put a limit to how far I will go. I will not allow myself to exceed 190-200lbs stage ready, ever.
 
fueledpassion said:
I'm not following. It's as if you think these supps do the same things as most of the pharma products - they do not. But that aside, Nattokinase is the same as warfarin just a shorter half life.
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Have you looked much into the MoA specifics of nattokinase? Like fibrinogen etc? On a superficial look the compound seems like it would be synergistic with naringin, but fuk Im not even gonna pretend I understand all the finer points of those blood factors and what have you.
 
Nac said:
Have you looked much into the MoA specifics of nattokinase? Like fibrinogen etc? On a superficial look the compound seems like it would be synergistic with naringin, but fuk Im not even gonna pretend I understand all the finer points of those blood factors and what have you.
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Took both to control elevated RBC and clotting, had bloods, minimal impact.
 
hairygrandpa said:
Took both to control elevated RBC and clotting, had bloods, minimal impact.
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Were you much out of range at all though? The studeez on nattokinase show, much like ashwagandga and cortisol, that it is more of a "normaliser" than absolute lowerer. Ie if your hcrit is low it will raise it, if its high it will lower it, if its normal it wont do diddly.

Even then, and again Im faaaar from understanding all these blood things and how they interrelate, Im not sure if hcrit measures are a wholly reliable indicator that nattokinase is being effective or not; its benefits may not be reducible or limited to its impact on hcrit. I just dont know.

I guess if you take it solely for the purpose of lowering rbc/hcrit/BP then you have fairly clear assessment measures. But like coq10 for example, its at least possible these compounds have arterial/plasma benefits that are not necessarily reflected by BP drops etc. To more thoroughly judge them you may need to get more specific tests done.
 
Nac said:
Were you out of range at all though? The studeez on nattokinase show, much like ashwagandga and cortisol, that it is more of a "normaliser" than absolute lowerer. Ie if your hcrit is low it will raise it, if its high it will lower it, if its normal it wont do diddly.

Even then, and again Im faaaar from understanding all these blood things and how they interrelate, Im not sure if hcrit measures are a wholly reliable indicator that nattokinase is being effective or not; its benefits may not be reducible or limited to its impact on hcrit. I just dont know.

I guess if you take it solely for the purpose of lowering rbc/hcrit/BP then you have fairly clear assessment measures. But like coq10 for example, its at least possible these compounds have arterial/plasma benefits that are not necessarily reflected by BP drops etc. To more thoroughly judge them you may need to get more specific tests done.
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I was on a 600mg NPP/w + 300mg test/w cycle with 600mg Nattokinase and 2 caps naringine/day.
BP went through the roof by week 3 and RBC was high. Donated blood twice in two month. Both times RBC was high.
Popped lisinopril, telmisartan and a diuretic to control BP. BP got only down by 15%, so I dropped NPP completely abandoning the cycle by week 7.
 
hairygrandpa said:
Nattokinase: 4000 f.u. per 200mg capsule
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Sh1t you were taking 3caps/12000fu? This has got me curious. If I recall right the studies used 2000-4000fu. Id be interested to see if there is any data showing higher doses had a reverse effect (possible, seen it before with some compounds).
 
Nac said:
Sh1t you were taking 3caps/12000fu? This has got me curious. If I recall right the studies used 2000-4000fu. Id be interested to see if there is any data showing higher doses had a reverse effect (possible, seen it before with some compounds).
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I started with 400mg (8000 fu) and upped after I gave my first blood. If the ordinary person takes 4000 fu, I figured a 225lbs male on a steroid cycle, would benefit from more. If blood would have got to "thin", I would have noticed bruising after training -or maybe profuse gum bleeding.
It had no- or marginal effect on RBC. maybe you are right and more = opposed effect. One incident was cited in a study, a guy took 400mg (8000 fu) and died of a stroke. Now the problem is, was the stroke due to clotting -or due to "blood thinning" ?
 
For sure bro. Im pretty much clutching at straws as to why it made no impact for you, on those measures at least.
 
I take the recommended dose, nothing more, which is 2000 Fu per day. I only took it for blood thinning properties, that's it. I depended on ACE-II's, garlic, diuretics, water & cardio for BP. Vit K-2 was strictly for preventing plaque build-up.

Between natto, enalipril and trimetazidine, I had zero issues with blood pressure. However, I didn't run a gram of gear either. I ran 500-600mg tops and many weeks of my prep I ran less than 400mg/wk.

Lastly, you have to consider that I was doing anywhere from 45-75 minutes of cardio daily for the last 4-6 weeks and a good portion of that was on a stairmill. I was also no higher than 7% BF during that portion of my prep.
 
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You read anything about this drug fueledpassion

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Interesting not just for the compound itself, but that mainstream medicine and pharma are latching onto the idea that inflammation, and not blood cholesterol, is the primary CVS health concern.
 
fueledpassion said:
Being unnecessarily condescending doesn't further qualify your statement nor does it bring anything constructive to the discussion.

Yes, homeostasis is in fact what I'm talking about. The greater point I made in that post was largely ignored as far as I can tell. You jumped from claiming one statement, which was the disbelief that top tier pros can and do use less gear than amateurs to now defending the idea that age-related sarcopenia always overcomes (which scientists and doctors have yet to put a finger on precisely ALL of the components responsible for that, btw).

Well yes, my statement in no way claims that sarcopenia doesn't win in the end. My statement was that top bodybuilders don't use as much gear as people want to think they do. We don't fully understand all that encompasses age-related sarcopenia. All we know is some experience it sooner than others, which further supports my claim that pro bodybuilders have superior genetics for this sport, which is why they are there to begin with and why they don't need 2-3g of gear per week to be that big.

Your argument seems to say that pros take stupid amounts of gear because they are still so big and lean even when they hit an age that most people would start experiencing performance decreases and sarcopenia. You're arguing the pros use way more gear than anyone else in bodybuilding on the claim that they aren't shrinking as fast as normal people would in the aging process. Nevermind, these guys are religious as they come with their regimine & diet, but even more than that, they already have the body. It's much easier to maintain and even improve on current status & when current status is 250lbs @ 7% BF, things get easier. I need you to recal my earlier post - that I use half the gear I used to but I maintain FAR more muscle mass now and I'm also considerably older now. On that basis alone, my argument is validated. Plus, do you know how much gear some of these amateurs use?!? Many of them are taking a 1.5-2.5g of Test/Tren/Mast/Winny combo each week. For larger amateur bodybuilders, this isn't uncommon...

To really understand the rub this statement has with natty and lower level competitors, you'd have to acknowledge human tendency to downplay someone else's natural born gifts and work ethic in order for them to feel like the only reason they aren't as amazing as Phil Heath is because of the drugs. It's obvious why people say such stupid crap - a good portion of our society believes in equality of outcome. That also explains the growing practice of expansive redistribution of wealth and participation trophies.

Nonetheless, I'm here to defend the obvious, that we don't look like Phil Heath simply because we aren't as gifted, aren't as motivated and aren't as disciplined.

This talk of crazy steroid doses being a trait of all pro bodybuilders is nonsense and a feel good tactic to make people think it'd be the same outcome for them "if only they were willing to take all those drugs".. You see how that takes a less successful person and makes them seem like they are taking the moral high road instead of being an awesome, successful bodybuilder? I'm only disucssing this becuase this lack-of-facts mentality that pro bodybuilders are the worst abusers of AAS is nonsense and harmful to the future of the sport itself.
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Man, now see I can empathise with guys who assume Heath is taking craploads of gear.

Ive watched a few of his training vids now, and whilst I certainly dont believe they show the whole story...he fukn cruises through his workouts lol. Like, the opposite in intensity to guys like Yates and Coleman. I can fully imagine brahs watching those same Heath training sessions and, seeing the absolute lack of effort (loooong rest periods, standing round watching the TV screens between sets, minimal sweating, etc), put his size down to "all the drugs, brah; I train way harder than him!!1!". I found it tempting myself.
 
Nac said:
Man, now see I can empathise with guys who assume Heath is taking craploads of gear.

Ive watched a few of his training vids now, and whilst I certainly dont believe they show the whole story...he fukn cruises through his workouts lol. Like, the opposite in intensity to guys like Yates and Coleman. I can fully imagine brahs watching those same Heath training sessions and, seeing the absolute lack of effort (loooong rest periods, standing round watching the TV screens between sets, minimal sweating, etc), put his size down to "all the drugs, brah; I train way harder than him!!1!". I found it tempting myself.
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funny u say that, I was watching his legs workout last night the one he doing for olympia and he was not even trying hard bro like not even I was like wtf!!!
but it could be editing not showing it when he going hardcore ??
 
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