Donald Trump running for president

So what's the answer in your opinion? Note, I'm not in favor of a single payer system.
I don't know I'm just not a fan of single payer. I do agree are health care has been in shambles well before Obama care. Frankly I'm not to against Obama care. It has some good thing in it. Just hate the lies are secret that was around it. Although it didn't benefit me at all as I had good health care, but for people whom had no or bad health care I think it was great. Just think they should be forced to pay a fine to not have it. Rather give tax incentive to have health care.
 
I don't know I'm just not a fan of single payer. I do agree are health care has been in shambles well before Obama care. Frankly I'm not to against Obama care. It has some good thing in it. Just hate the lies are secret that was around it. Although it didn't benefit me at all as I had good health care, but for people whom had no or bad health care I think it was great. Just think they should be forced to pay a fine to not have it. Rather give tax incentive to have health care.

I like the carrot approach a lot better than the stick....I thought the republican plan was to give tax credits, what happened to that?
 
I don't know I'm just not a fan of single payer. I do agree are health care has been in shambles well before Obama care. Frankly I'm not to against Obama care. It has some good thing in it. Just hate the lies are secret that was around it. Although it didn't benefit me at all as I had good health care, but for people whom had no or bad health care I think it was great. Just think they should be forced to pay a fine to not have it. Rather give tax incentive to have health care.

What about those that kicked off their good plans, and got worse plans that cost them more money?
 
What about those that kicked off their good plans, and got worse plans that cost them more money?

So what's the better system? I didn't get kicked off my plan, but changed jobs and all of the options are way more expensive now, but that's the fault of the insurance companies.
 
So what's the better system? I didn't get kicked off my plan, but changed jobs and all of the options are way more expensive now, but that's the fault of the insurance companies.

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I'd argue it's the fault of the ones that schemed up Obamacare. There's nothing I've seen that says insurance would have gotten as bad as it is today if they never passed Obamacare. It was a huge lying scheme, that half of the people fell for. The insurance companies are playing the game that the Democrats layed out with the structure of obamacare. Remember the plan was to collapse the insurance market to force the citizenry to beg for the government to move to single payer.
 
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I'd argue it's the fault of the ones that schemed up Obamacare. There's nothing I've seen that says insurance would have gotten as bad as it is today if they never passed Obamacare. It was a huge lying scheme, that half of the people fell for.
So Obama Care didn't help people with cheap or health insurance???
 
So Obama Care didn't help people with cheap or health insurance???

They hurt as many people as it might have helped, so it was a wash. Many people lost work hours due to the employer mandate to provide insurance to "full time" employees. The problem was that it lowered the threshold to 29 or 30 hrs/week is considered full time in Obamacare regulations. So many people, including my wife lost hours at work so companies wouldn't have to provide insurance or pay a tax penalty.

Look up the stats on the types of jos added under Obama, and the majority were part time jobs, as a result of obamacare mandates.
 
So what's the better system? I didn't get kicked off my plan, but changed jobs and all of the options are way more expensive now, but that's the fault of the insurance companies.

Better system would be remove employer and individual mandate. Allow companies to sell insurance across state lines. Pre existing conditions issue could point to some price increases, so I'm 50/50 on that. The minimum level of coverage created by obamacare was a big driver of increased costs. Why does a man or a woman in her 50's need to pay for prenatal care? Another big driver of price increases by insurance companies is the government subsidies. Government thinks subsidizing a product or service is a price control. But it isn't. It controls what a consumer may pay, but it doesn't control the actual cost. A seller or provider of a subsidized product can continue to raise prices because the government will pay the difference, or reimburse the purchaser. Look at college tuition. Student loans are killing people, so as part of the Corn husker kickback to get another vote to pass Obamacare, the government services or at least will underwrite the majority of student loans. Colleges know the government will pay them even if the student can't.

Remember obamacare was promoted and sold as a way to insure more people and lower costs, but it was never actually designed that way. Recently another large provider droped out of one of the exchanges in Ohio I believe, leaving those residents with less choice and certainty.
 
So Obama Care didn't help people with cheap or health insurance???

We had a basic "just in case" minimal high deductible plan (thats crap, but it was cheap as we can get because thats the risk we want) and we (my wife) were dropped off our plan and put on a new one that was pretty much exactly the same coverage except that our rates went up.

On a separate note (doesnt effect me,) Obamacare also hurt alot of poor people who cant even afford health insurance and get punished and penalized for it....or if they chose to follow the law and buy a plan they were more broke because these plans have some $100 deductible and thousands of dollars of annual deductibles. Basically they are forced to buy a product that is no use to them unless something catastrophic happens and have less money and incentive to go see a doctor for regular checkups or for little **** because the money is now going to a useless service against their will at gunpoint. Obamacare was supposed to lower costs by "insuring" poor people (by forcing them ROFL!) so they get more preventative care thus reducing costs, but its really the contrary because the poor are now more poor and if they are too poor they are criminals now punishable by the IRS, at least for many I cannot say exact stats...there are the medicaid people but thats another story.
 
So what's the better system? I didn't get kicked off my plan, but changed jobs and all of the options are way more expensive now, but that's the fault of the insurance companies.

Obamacare limited options on the coverage of plans...that is one of the arguments against it-mandatory coverage even for things that are not relevant...for example, pregnancy coverage for men.
 
Obamacare limited options on the coverage of plans...that is one of the arguments against it-mandatory coverage even for things that are not relevant...for example, pregnancy coverage for men.

Did Ryan or somebody use this example of men paying for prenatal care and pregnancy-related expenses? I keep hearing it repeated, so it had to come from somewhere and it's dumb. When has there ever been a health insurance plan where we didn't have to pay to cover things we might never use or need? I don't have kids and sure as **** never will have kids, but that's part of how insurance works. Why should a woman in her 20s be paying to cover prostate cancer? Is it fair that I have to pay to help cover people that smoke and never exercise? No, but that's the system. It's a pool that we pay into and hope for the best.
 
Did Ryan or somebody use this example of men paying for prenatal care and pregnancy-related expenses? I keep hearing it repeated, so it had to come from somewhere and it's dumb. When has there ever been a health insurance plan where we didn't have to pay to cover things we might never use or need? I don't have kids and sure as **** never will have kids, but that's part of how insurance works. Why should a woman in her 20s be paying to cover prostate cancer? Is it fair that I have to pay to help cover people that smoke and never exercise? No, but that's the system. It's a pool that we pay into and hope for the best.
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It came from obamacare. If they didn't change the minimum standards of coverage, they wouldn't have had to "grandfather" existing plans, and they wouldn't have had to push the sunset date of getting off those grandfathered plans to go past another election. That goes back to my point of kicking millions off their existing plans.


"Health plans that don't count as coverage
Some products that help pay for medical services don't qualify. If you have only this kind of product, you may have to pay the fee. Examples include:

Coverage only for vision care or dental care
Workers' compensation
Coverage only for a specific disease or condition
Plans that offer only discounts on medical services"

If these types of plans are all that a person could afford and cover exactly what they want covered, then you get taxed foe not having a qualified plan.
 
Did Ryan or somebody use this example of men paying for prenatal care and pregnancy-related expenses? I keep hearing it repeated, so it had to come from somewhere and it's dumb. When has there ever been a health insurance plan where we didn't have to pay to cover things we might never use or need? I don't have kids and sure as **** never will have kids, but that's part of how insurance works. Why should a woman in her 20s be paying to cover prostate cancer? Is it fair that I have to pay to help cover people that smoke and never exercise? No, but that's the system. It's a pool that we pay into and hope for the best.

I never claimed to be an expert, i'm just trying to feel my way thru the process...most of my life my family was covered by insurance from my work, now I am covered by the VA but shopping for insurance for my wife is incredibly expensive...I will pay whatever it takes to have my wife insured, but I am afraid that the people who need insurance the most[SENIORS]will not be able to afford it.

my mom is covered by Medicaid but also has medicare to pay for expenses not covered by Medicaid, she is fearful that her medicare will be cancelled...the people who will be hardest hit by the republican plan are those aged 55-66 who aren't eligible for Medicaid and whose premiums will be skyhigh based on age. this is fair considering people 55-66 are going to need medical care more often, but fair isn't always fair when people will not be able to afford it.

I really don't see any good solutions....
 
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It came from obamacare. If they didn't change the minimum standards of coverage, they wouldn't have had to "grandfather" existing plans, and they wouldn't have had to push the sunset date of getting off those grandfathered plans to go past another election. That goes back to my point of kicking millions off their existing plans.


"Health plans that don't count as coverage
Some products that help pay for medical services don't qualify. If you have only this kind of product, you may have to pay the fee. Examples include:

Coverage only for vision care or dental care
Workers' compensation
Coverage only for a specific disease or condition
Plans that offer only discounts on medical services"

If these types of plans are all that a person could afford and cover exactly what they want covered, then you get taxed foe not having a qualified plan.

I think you might have misread what I posted. I'm asking where people are getting that Obamacare was the first time that people paying for insurance had to pay for some things that they would never use such as with men paying for prenatal care (although many men do that that coverage for their families). If you did respond to that question, can you please highlight it because I'm missing it.
 
there is no answer that will be fair to everyone, anyway you cut it there will be winners and losers...if done badly there will be many more losers than winners.
Except the examples of every other western country ;)
 
I never claimed to be an expert, i'm just trying to feel my way thru the process...most of my life my family was covered by insurance from my work, now I am covered by the VA but shopping for insurance for my wife is incredibly expensive...I will pay whatever it takes to have my wife insured, but I am afraid that the people who need insurance the most[SENIORS]will not be able to afford it.

my mom is covered by Medicaid but also has medicare to pay for expenses not covered by Medicaid, she is fearful that her medicare will be cancelled...the people who will be hardest hit by the republican plan are those aged 55-66 who aren't eligible for Medicaid and whose premiums will be skyhigh based on age. this is fair considering people 55-66 are going to need medical care more often, but fair isn't always fair when people will not be able to afford it.

I really don't see any good solutions....

I'm not asking for expert advice, but I keep hearing this argument from Republicans in regards to Obamacare so much that it can't just be a coincidence that everybody is using the same example. I'm curious who used the example first because it doesn't make sense as an attack on Obamacare since it applies to health insurance plans in general.
 
Except the examples of every other western country ;)

looking at the options the republicans are proposing I am starting to lean that way, it looks like single payer just might be inevitable.
 
I'm not asking for expert advice, but I keep hearing this argument from Republicans in regards to Obamacare so much that it can't just be a coincidence that everybody is using the same example. I'm curious who used the example first because it doesn't make sense as an attack on Obamacare since it applies to health insurance plans in general.

google...how did healthcare coverage change under Obamacare....everything is laid out for you!!!
 
Can you share the one that you think is the best? I hear very different stories from people and physicians in those countries.
Depends where you're from I suppose, and the stories you hear.

I can only speak from NZ, but ill try explain. in NZ, health care in govt. Funded, so in other words it is funded by all those who pay tax. If you are an NZ citizen or resident living here for X amount of years, you qualify for reduced health care costs. In my case, I pay $17 for a consultation to see my doc, and $5 for most, but not all, medications (prescription items). Not all medications or quantities are funded, but they'll find something that fits your requirement. I also pay nothing for blood tests if prescribed by a physician.

In some cases, consultations can be as high as $80+, but these are usually doctors you are not registered with (only one place at a time) or are privately owned.

If you pay tax, you pay for everyones health care, regardless if you are eligible to receive it. If you are on a working visa for example, you will buy health insurance in your country to cover the cost but your tax contributes.

A typical visit to the docs will cost me $22 including medication. I'll need to go back to the docs to get a new prescription, unless that specific medication allows for repeats which are $5 from an authorised pharmacy. Anything potentially used for illicit drug manufacturing is scrutinised, all all repeats must be doc assesed.

I have a friend who is a GP, and his salary is roughly $150,000-200,000 despite majority of people in his care receiving govt. funded subsidies.

Bearing in mind we don't have a large military spending.
 
google...how did healthcare coverage change under Obamacare....everything is laid out for you!!!

Are you also going to tell me the Supreme Court voted on this 9-0 as well lol. I don't need to google anything. I am EXTREMELY aware of how health coverage and pharma works as I get paid to be. You're attacking Obamacare and listed an example that makes no sense. I'm asking how that example is different from healthcare coverage that has come before it because that example DID NOT CHANGE BECAUSE OF OBAMACARE.

This is the problem. People like to attack things and tear other people down, but can't answer a basic question of how would you do it better? That's exactly what we're seeing in the Senate.
 
Thank you. Sounds like a reasonable system, but would never happen here (US). My experience is mostly here and EU countries, so I'm always curious to hear how others have figured it out.
The US having insurance companies involved is a stupid system IMO based on what I've read. The amount you pay is absurd. I don't have health insurance, but we do have that here for around $7 per week (i got a quote, so that's based in my age and my background). I couldn't imagine paying hundreds per month to support a family, especially on top of regular taxes.

That just seems criminal
 
Thank you. Sounds like a reasonable system, but would never happen here (US). My experience is mostly here and EU countries, so I'm always curious to hear how others have figured it out.

Keep in mind it's far easier to manage a country such as NZ with only 4.5 million people and no borders than 300 million here with a history of serious immigration issues and the most corrupt murderous, genocidal government in the history of the universe and all of space and time.

Jigzz got it good down under.
 
I think you might have misread what I posted. I'm asking where people are getting that Obamacare was the first time that people paying for insurance had to pay for some things that they would never use such as with men paying for prenatal care (although many men do that that coverage for their families). If you did respond to that question, can you please highlight it because I'm missing it.

You're correct. Insurance is hedging risk and you may pay for things you won't use. But the changes that came about as written in Obamacare have been the most recent and had the most negative impact on a large portion of the population.
 
Are you also going to tell me the Supreme Court voted on this 9-0 as well lol. I don't need to google anything. I am EXTREMELY aware of how health coverage and pharma works as I get paid to be. You're attacking Obamacare and listed an example that makes no sense. I'm asking how that example is different from healthcare coverage that has come before it because that example DID NOT CHANGE BECAUSE OF OBAMACARE.

This is the problem. People like to attack things and tear other people down, but can't answer a basic question of how would you do it better? That's exactly what we're seeing in the Senate.

why would you ask me a question in the 1st place since you are an expert in the field and have all the answers already?
 
Keep in mind it's far easier to manage a country such as NZ with only 4.5 million people and no borders than 300 million here with a history of serious immigration issues and the most corrupt murderous, genocidal government in the history of the universe and all of space and time.

Jigzz got it good down under.
I still don't see how thats an issue, and you can't blame It all on the mexicans. In NZ it applies to citizens and lawful residents, not aliens. How would they mess up the system?
 
I still don't see how thats an issue, and you can't blame It all on the mexicans. In NZ it applies to citizens and lawful residents, not aliens. How would they mess up the system?

I never blamed Mexicans, I blamed illegal immigration which is part of the issue I never blamed it all on them. As you can see as my statement laid out I hope I sounded like my primary beef against socialist policy is the most corrupt government on the globe. As long as the corporations and banks run our fascist government any idea of socialist policy should scare the crap out of people.

Its easy to manage that law in a small country where you at least appear to have somewhat of a legitimate goverment. Here in the USA laws apply when wanted....here illegal immigrants in some places have far more rights than citizens. They use our broke services, and the primary beneficiary of welfare are statistically those with an immigration background. Thats one of the reasons so many come here, they know they will get free healthcare if they show up at the hospital (they get a bill but the tax payers, insured, and overall medical costs make up for that) and pop a baby and then they are legalized citizens and being poor they qualify for welfare and other social services. Big government goblin politicians in the long run get their votes and our freedoms and liberties are incrementally destroyed.

More of speaking of laws applying to citizens...the past 8 years they can simply cross the border with no ID by order of the White House while my wife and I are getting my genitals groped at the airports by drunk unprofessional fast food workers without ever aka TSA. At least they use rubber gloves...rrrr...nevermind not one in my life have I seen them change it from ones genital to another's bunghole.

Again, you say laws only apply to NZ Citizens but thats easy to implement when you dont have a history of wide open borders and millions upon millions of illegal immigration flooding in.

Health care system needs to revert prior to Nixon and corrupt managed care. We can possibly having some type of aid for the poor (without income taxing people) on a local state level to minimize corruption, but before government interventionism the US didnt have much issues with the poor getting free or cheap health care. The poor and lower income people were more hurt as a whole after corrupt government interventionism came along and people kept begging for more of the problem to come up with the solutions creating the mess we have today.
 
Where does it say that?

Brock Lesnar almost died because of Canada. "They couldn't do nothing for me. It was like I was in a third world country. I had to get out of there."

The services here in the USA are fantastic, they used to be better overall (when it comes to costs) but I really would rather have US medical care than pretty much anywhere else in the world in terms of speed and services. They preform miracles here and innovation has been incredible.

We get looked down alot on health care globally, I dont get it....but really I feel we are in a terrific position. Its not difficult to cut costs but the voters keep voting for corrupt Demicans and Republicrats so they get what they get.
 
The services here in the USA are fantastic, they used to be better overall (when it comes to costs) but I really would rather have US medical care than pretty much anywhere else in the world in terms of speed and services. They preform miracles here and innovation has been incredible.

We get looked down alot on health care globally, I dont get it....but really I feel we are in a terrific position. Its not difficult to cut costs but the voters keep voting for corrupt Demicans and Republicrats so they get what they get.

Innovation here is great, but nobody can afford the innovation because the insurance companies always choose the cheapest option. I sit with physicians all the time that tell me they want to run this test or prescribe this treatment, but the insurance company rejects it or makes the process so annoying that they go with the cheaper, less complicated, and often far less effective option. I see this the most in oncology, where pharma companies have made progress in creating diagnostic tests to find what type of cancer treatment might work better for an individual based on markers in their body that may differ between patients. However, the insurance companies don't want to pay for the tests and would rather they just get chemo.

All that said, the US is still the best bet for quality, but things need to change or it might not be for long.
 
Innovation here is great, but nobody can afford the innovation because the insurance companies always choose the cheapest option. I sit with physicians all the time that tell me they want to run this test or prescribe this treatment, but the insurance company rejects it or makes the process so annoying that they go with the cheaper, less complicated, and often far less effective option. I see this the most in oncology, where pharma companies have made progress in creating diagnostic tests to find what type of cancer treatment might work better for an individual based on markers in their body that may differ between patients. However, the insurance companies don't want to pay for the tests and would rather they just get chemo.

All that said, the US is still the best bet for quality, but things need to change or it might not be for long.


I am really interested in knowing if we do go to single payer, will that eliminate insurance companies from the picture altogether?

I truly don't see insurance companies going down without a massive fight, would it really be that easy to get rid of them from healthcare?
 
I am really interested in knowing if we do go to single payer, will that eliminate insurance companies from the picture altogether?

I truly don't see insurance companies going down without a massive fight, would it really be that easy to get rid of them from healthcare?

Insurance is just supposed to be a "just in case" setup anyways, it should have anything to do with healthcare. If we ever did have a single payer system I certainly would want to still get an insurance policy to back me up in case the system which would be broke to start out with (We are 20 trillion broke already, so this notion of adding a bigger socialist policy is crazy imo) collapses.
 
Insurance is just supposed to be a "just in case" setup anyways, it should have anything to do with healthcare. If we ever did have a single payer system I certainly would want to still get an insurance policy to back me up in case the system which would be broke to start out with (We are 20 trillion broke already, so this notion of adding a bigger socialist policy is crazy imo) collapses.

my wife found a policy for $180 a month with a $6,000 deductible, so that is pretty much what she has since outside of a major illness she will never meet the deductible.
 
I am really interested in knowing if we do go to single payer, will that eliminate insurance companies from the picture altogether?

I truly don't see insurance companies going down without a massive fight, would it really be that easy to get rid of them from healthcare?

Insurance will always be there, but it would help to get them under control. Unfortunately, they're only part of the problem. Pharmacies and pharmacy benefit mangement companies like Express Scripts along with the countless other health organizations all have a hand in the pot. There is absolutely no good reason why paying for health care has become so complicated.
 
Insurance will always be there, but it would help to get them under control. Unfortunately, they're only part of the problem. Pharmacies and pharmacy benefit mangement companies like Express Scripts along with the countless other health organizations all have a hand in the pot. There is absolutely no good reason why paying for health care has become so complicated.

very complicated...I suppose it would even be a lot worse if/when you were to contract a major illness or trauma.
 
Brock Lesnar almost died because of Canada. "They couldn't do nothing for me. It was like I was in a third world country. I had to get out of there."

The services here in the USA are fantastic, they used to be better overall (when it comes to costs) but I really would rather have US medical care than pretty much anywhere else in the world in terms of speed and services. They preform miracles here and innovation has been incredible.

We get looked down alot on health care globally, I dont get it....but really I feel we are in a terrific position. Its not difficult to cut costs but the voters keep voting for corrupt Demicans and Republicrats so they get what they get.
One guy says it and that's a case for the argument. Ok.

Lol you better hope its worth it! you pay an arm and a leg for it!
 
One guy says it and that's a case for the argument. Ok.

Lol you better hope its worth it! you pay an arm and a leg for it!
You clearly haven't talk to anyone from Canada about there health care. Everyone that I know says it's great if you have the flu or strep but any thing other than basic medical care it sucks dick and you usually have to pay for it still.
 
my wife found a policy for $180 a month with a $6,000 deductible, so that is pretty much what she has since outside of a major illness she will never meet the deductible.

Would you think it would be better if half your income went to taxes if a single payer system was implemented?

Often people overseas brag about how cheap it is to go to the doctor and get medicine yet they have over half their money stolen from them whether you use social services or not.
 
[rant]new employer offers free coverage to me only - child or spouses, child and spouse - is at my cost. Child and spouses is $490 bi weekly or ~&1100month.

Had wife go to affordable care website to get herself and child a quote - $901 month. She earns $22k annually. That equates to HALF her salary. The deductible is $6500/$13000. Basically her entire ****ing salary!

This system sucks. I am tired of being ****ed by MY government and the medical and insurance industry.

Once her and my preventives are done I'll let it run out. When open enrollment comes I'll drop it and pay the $175/month fine I'm levied (last years I missed several month between employers).

My coverage for my family equates to near 25% of my gross salary.

God bless the uneducated white blue collar middle class/aged American male...please![/rant]
 
Would you think it would be better if half your income went to taxes if a single payer system was implemented?

Often people overseas brag about how cheap it is to go to the doctor and get medicine yet they have over half their money stolen from them whether you use social services or not.

In norway its very common to pay 32% Tax and in cities even more.
When we pay so much tax,a good health care is the minimum we deserve !
 
In norway its very common to pay 32% Tax and in cities even more.
When we pay so much tax,a good health care is the minimum we deserve !

The government's obligation here are to the lobby, private fed-reserve along with their connections and military industrial complex.

Its really really corrupt here, Id say on the biggest scale anywhere on the globe.
 
The government's obligation here are to the lobby, private fed-reserve along with their connections and military industrial complex.

Its really really corrupt here, Id say on the biggest scale anywhere on the globe.

Its just sad!
I shall not complain at all. Health care is good here.
20$ for visiting a doc and 40$ visiting a specialist/do a surgery. No matter what surgery it is. Those who are poor , government pay for them (even that small deductible)
 
Its just sad!
I shall not complain at all. Health care is good here.
20$ for visiting a doc and 40$ visiting a specialist/do a surgery. No matter what surgery it is. Those who are poor , government pay for them (even that small deductible)

I come across very anti-socialism on here, but thats because I do not accept the political nature of the current government.

I do actually like ideas of having some socialism especially health care. Id be more supportive of individual states running health care programs with the Federal Government's primary role only being regulation and a consumer watchdog.

There are alot of other complex issues here with the health care system and its costs but Id have to write a small book in a single post and I think we have other things to be doing today lol !
 
I come across very anti-socialism on here, but thats because I do not accept the political nature of the current government.

I do actually like ideas of having some socialism especially health care. Id be more supportive of individual states running health care programs with the Federal Government's primary role only being regulation and a consumer watchdog.

There are alot of other complex issues here with the health care system and its costs but Id have to write a small book in a single post and I think we have other things to be doing today lol !

At the end of the day, its regular people who are always biggest losers. Rich people, politicans ++ dont feel the negatives made by bad policy
 
In norway its very common to pay 32% Tax and in cities even more.
When we pay so much tax,a good health care is the minimum we deserve !

when you add it all up we pay way more than that...fica/Medicaid/federal tax/state tax/county tax/sales tax/gasoline tax/license fees/property tax/inheritance tax/capital gains tax, I am sure there are others but americans are taxed out the ass.
 
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