Guest viewing limit reached
  • You have reached the maximum number of guest views allowed
  • Please register below to remove this limitation

Thoughts on Keto vs. IIFYM

ECWHY

Member
Keto has been pretty great for leaning me out, but as I get leaner I am thinking about my next bulk. I plan to go clean, but trying to decide if I should add carbs back into my diet or keep up with the keto.

From my experience:

I stay fuller longer on keto
I don't get major hunger pains (very dull hunger)
I tend to have a more consistent energy level


I am still wondering how well it would work for a bulk, and then my next cut since my protein is below the normal 1-1.2g per lb/lbm to help maintain my ketosis.
 
Bulking on keto is a little more difficult, only because it's super easy to eat at a surplus with carbs. Plus, higher fat keeps you full longer, making it a chore to eat the amount required to add size. IIFYM is kinda like flexible dieting but people use it as an excuse to eat crap. The problem with that is, that, sure you can eat a donut, but that's a lot of your calories and very little nutrition. A clean, flexible diet is what I would use to bulk, then keto or even HFLC to cut, depending on time frame and goals, ya know.
 
I am still wondering how well it would work for a bulk, and then my next cut since my protein is below the normal 1-1.2g per lb/lbm to help maintain my ketosis.

I think keto can be a great diet strategy for cutting, but as others have said it isn't ideal for building muscle. Technically you can build muscle on keto, but it isn't optimal.

Glycogen (carbs) is your bodies preferred source of fuel for high intensity exercise. Having readily available glycogen allows the body to work optimally which will allow you to reach muscle hypertrophy, which is what drive muscle growth. Restricting carbs and not providing glycogen will limit the amount of energy and power output that the muscle can deliver, which will short circuit your progress.

Some people will argue and claim that keto works better for them while bulking, but the science behind how the human body works shows that carbs will always be the preferred method for muscle gain.

I think the term IIFYM has gotten skewed over the last few years, and people use it as an excuse to eat garbage. IIFYM works, but there's no need to build your diet around sugary cereal, poptarts, and ice cream. If you want to stay lean while bulking you can definitely incorporate some fun foods, but don't turn it into a "how much garbage can I eat while fitting my macros" game. Eat whole food, keep your greens and vegetables in your diet, and learn to enjoy preparing and eating healthy balanced meals.
 
Generally I avoid keto all together with my clients. Their are a few however that thrive off it during prep, majority are women in my experience that get a positive benefit if I do use it and not so much men (not sure why & haven't really looked into to understand why). I would never consider it for bulking, I've tried it a few times over my lifetime and it failed. IIFYM, like most stated is probably a better option if done correctly.

I favor Carb Backloading & Carb cycling for both cutting and bulking. It's not better or worse then any other diet, it's just one method I have a good understanding of and very proficient at using it across a wide range of people.

Guess your wondering why the long set up? Lol

Yes, people mess up IIFYM. But it's mainly food timing and not choices. So many people fear foods, SUGAR in particular and that I've found to be a weakness and not a strength when doing any protocol for dieting or bulking.

Below is my take of the subject from one of my articles.

~Coaches Corner~

I'm known as the coach that feeds his clients doughnuts post workout.

Food choices around workout perimeter:

Progress is underpinned by adherence. Energy balance, in most people ( of course there are always outliers/anomalies ) is the bottom line. If we eat to our energy demands, we make progress towards our goals.

If our bodies Demand of us, 800g carbs a day, to make progress, because we maybe somewhat active, and then have the ability to train really hard, it's imperative we meet those demands if we are to make progress. I have clients that simply can't eat enough. So from an adherence perspective, we get around this by using food choices that are simply easy to eat. What's important to note, is there is nothing inherently bad about sugar. The notion of sugar being evil, has long been disproved. The current literature shows that provided we eat to our energy demands, sugar isn't going to be the cause of obesity or metabolic diseases such as diabetes. Simply being as we utilise that fuel, it is a demand that is being met. It is the over eating of calories that causes that decline in health and health markers. This is very much agreed on, in the academic community and there is a host of literature to draw upon here.

So as we diet down and carbohydrate needs decrease, we then focus on adherence again by then switching to a satiety emphasised diet. You are now really hungry, and have less calories to play with so you can't get all your micronutrient needs if your still using foods that just focus on the macros. So now is the time to swap out doughnuts and cereal for rice, sweet potato, quinoa, etc , to ensure your getting in everything you need from a recovery perspective, and we are meeting that bottom line of adherence and energy balance.

Shunning sugar, just illustrates a lack of understanding of the current literature. Eat to your needs, and not just adhere to the current "norms" of dieting...

So my recommendation to you would be to try them both for a period of 6-8 weeks and see for yourself which method works best. Our opinions are limited by our individual experience, go experience them & give them the proper time and adherence to produce results or not produce.

 
I think keto can be a great diet strategy for cutting, but as others have said it isn't ideal for building muscle. Technically you can build muscle on keto, but it isn't optimal.

Glycogen (carbs) is your bodies preferred source of fuel for high intensity exercise. Having readily available glycogen allows the body to work optimally which will allow you to reach muscle hypertrophy, which is what drive muscle growth. Restricting carbs and not providing glycogen will limit the amount of energy and power output that the muscle can deliver, which will short circuit your progress.

Some people will argue and claim that keto works better for them while bulking, but the science behind how the human body works shows that carbs will always be the preferred method for muscle gain.

I think the term IIFYM has gotten skewed over the last few years, and people use it as an excuse to eat garbage. IIFYM works, but there's no need to build your diet around sugary cereal, poptarts, and ice cream. If you want to stay lean while bulking you can definitely incorporate some fun foods, but don't turn it into a "how much garbage can I eat while fitting my macros" game. Eat whole food, keep your greens and vegetables in your diet, and learn to enjoy preparing and eating healthy balanced meals.

Yeah, I do agree with what you said.

I was thinking of either doing CKD or 40/40/20 (possibly 50/30/20) for my next bulk. I definitely know that carbs don't just get you fat, you just gotta eat well/in a deficit, etc. I have learned a lot about how much food effects my body with my time on keto because I have looked into the macros of so many ****ing foods lol.

I know that carbs are great for building muscle which is why I was thinking of doing CKD since in general, I feel a lot fuller on keto but might have to just play around with it and see what works for me.
 
Yeah, I do agree with what you said.

I was thinking of either doing CKD or 40/40/20 (possibly 50/30/20) for my next bulk. I definitely know that carbs don't just get you fat, you just gotta eat well/in a deficit, etc. I have learned a lot about how much food effects my body with my time on keto because I have looked into the macros of so many ****ing foods lol.

I know that carbs are great for building muscle which is why I was thinking of doing CKD since in general, I feel a lot fuller on keto but might have to just play around with it and see what works for me.

CKD would be a good option to try out. I've always done CKD while on keto - the first few workouts after the high carb day are incredible.

Everyone is different, and everyone responds differently to different foods and diets. It's great that you're experimenting and learning what works best for you. If you're enjoying keto, I would definitely try a lean bulk on keto and see how it goes. I personally wasn't a fan of how I felt, but you might find that it works better for you than a traditional 40/40/20 diet
 
Out of the two, I would avoid keto, especially when bulking. Like others have mentioned, carbs are very important when bulking.

Regardless, carbs are very important to maintain thyroid function, proper hydration, produce insulin, avoid Gluconeogenesis and maintain healthy levels of vitamins and minerals.

Invalid Link Removed'

You could carb cycle. I like carb cycling no matter the goal. You can go low carb on rest days and eat carbs on days you work out. This will not deplete you, but can help avoid a spill over.

IIFYM, does not mean eat anything and everything that fits into your macros though. Some people take IIFYM to the extreme and do this. You still want to eat your lean meats, veggies, healthy fats, etc. I would suggest following the 80/20 or 90/10 rule. This means that 80-90% of your calories come from "clean" or "healthy" foods. The rest come from "dirty" foods. In my opinion, this creates a healthy relationship with foods and helps people avoid binging "dirty" foods.
 
Good info in here already and I'll just echo that IIFYM is great, IMO. Just like anything else, you can have people manipulate it in a non-ideal way (think about Crossfit -- I have plenty of friends who do it and it works well, but there is that small sub-set of people who just constantly won't shut up about it and make us all hate it). They're the minority. And I'd say the same for IIFYM. Because it's not really a diet; we act like it's novel, but it isn't. It's what we were always taught -- eat smart/well, but never restrict yourself completely from something (barring allergy/medical reasons) or you'll go crazy!
 
Out of the two, I would avoid keto, especially when bulking. Like others have mentioned, carbs are very important when bulking.

Regardless, carbs are very important to maintain thyroid function, proper hydration, produce insulin, avoid Gluconeogenesis and maintain healthy levels of vitamins and minerals.

test.t-nation.com/articles/5-scientific-reasons-to-eat-carurl]'

You could carb cycle. I like carb cycling no matter the goal. You can go low carb on rest days and eat carbs on days you work out. This will not deplete you, but can help avoid a spill over.

IIFYM, does not mean eat anything and everything that fits into your macros though. Some people take IIFYM to the extreme and do this. You still want to eat your lean meats, veggies, healthy fats, etc. I would suggest following the 80/20 or 90/10 rule. This means that 80-90% of your calories come from "clean" or "healthy" foods. The rest come from "dirty" foods. In my opinion, this creates a healthy relationship with foods and helps people avoid binging "dirty" foods.
Appreciate all of that great info. I think I'll try the CKD approach on my next bulk and see how I like it after a month or so. If, I don't like the results, I think I'll move to a more traditional BB diet.
CKD would be a good option to try out. I've always done CKD while on keto - the first few workouts after the high carb day are incredible.

Everyone is different, and everyone responds differently to different foods and diets. It's great that you're experimenting and learning what works best for you. If you're enjoying keto, I would definitely try a lean bulk on keto and see how it goes. I personally wasn't a fan of how I felt, but you might find that it works better for you than a traditional 40/40/20 diet
Probably the best idea. Gotta find what works for me with trial and error. I know a lot of people respond differently to carbs so I may have to just play around with it for a bit.

Curious what you eat in terms of macros on your bulks/cuts?

Good info in here already and I'll just echo that IIFYM is great, IMO. Just like anything else, you can have people manipulate it in a non-ideal way (think about Crossfit -- I have plenty of friends who do it and it works well, but there is that small sub-set of people who just constantly won't shut up about it and make us all hate it). They're the minority. And I'd say the same for IIFYM. Because it's not really a diet; we act like it's novel, but it isn't. It's what we were always taught -- eat smart/well, but never restrict yourself completely from something (barring allergy/medical reasons) or you'll go crazy!

Yeah, I should probably have not put IIFYM in the title. Brings back some horrible memories of people who completely butcher the ideology
 
Curious what you eat in terms of macros on your bulks/cuts?

I usually do some form of carb cycling regardless of my goals. For bulking, my macros are usually 50c/30p/20f on training days, 30c/40p/30f on rest days. For cutting it's usually 30c/45p/25f on training days and 25c/45p/30f, or somewhere around there haha. I'll usually incorporate a high carb refeed day once a week while cutting too that is closer to 55c/30p/15f
 
Back
Top