Epistane, Trest, Super-11

Cgkone said:
So prolactin sides are hard to distinguish from estro.....one sure fire way is the don't go away with AI
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OK or... Peptides bloat sticking around a bit? I'm leaning towards giving it till Monday and then I'll add prami. What dose do you start at? I know there's an upward trend in the dose but Google has various opinions on file, curious what you start at.

Remember I took the dose of Trest down to 1/2 a pump am and PM so that's not still a "lot" anymore. Epistane is slightly anti estrogen also (so I've read?).

I've been reading a bit more about how the oral Trest messes with people especially with how I was gonna take it. Thanks to hairygrandpa for actually hitting me back via PM to discuss that and Peptide sides. Sounds like I'll just have a good amount of caps waiting for me when I'm ready for it.
 
I guess the DAC might make them stick around.
I started prami too strong got hella sick.
I'd do .25ml
About a quarter of a full dose
On a full stomach.
Increase slowly
 
Cgkone said:
I guess the DAC might make them stick around.
I started prami too strong got hella sick.
I'd do .25ml
About a quarter of a full dose
On a full stomach.
Increase slowly
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.25ml? Like 2.5 units on a syringe? What mg dose or what was the concentration of the liquid you use?

And yeah I've heard it'll put you down if you over do it.
 
sespress said:
.25ml? Like 2.5 units on a syringe? What mg dose or what was the concentration of the liquid you use?

And yeah I've heard it'll put you down if you over do it.
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.25 mg
Start with that and ramp up .05 eod.
You will know when your at a working dose.
It's a sexual enhancement. But it will also be a sense of well being once prolactin drops
 
OK!
So I've got an interesting update to make. Weighed in this AM at 268. Now I don't usually give a hoot about 2lb's over a 24 hour period but with what's going on I'm playing extra attention. I do FEEL less bloated, and I look MUCH less bloated. Weight is up though. I have been sticking to my diet - 2000 calories in about a 33% split between the Macro's.

I'll post a pic from this AM, you won't be able to compare to the bloat version of me b/c I didn't take any photo's last week - lol - I am not self conscious person but I felt terrible and looked it too. So it's still a round up of "was it E2 and I nailed it down with Letro" or "it was GHRP's and CJC and its going away slowly". There's the last possibility that it's Prolactin related. I'm leaning to that not being the issue currently.
I'll keep an eye on it. I'll take measurements and bf% tomorrow / over my weekend (next 4 days). I go for chest tomorrow. Shoulder willing I'll be testing my new max on straight bench, shoulder unwilling I'll be sticking to my normal chest day and I'll go into that then. I'm excited for tomorrow for sure, first "real" chest day with enough time for both substances to really be kicking in.

Here's the supplement totals and what I'll be sticking with (anyone see an issue with me just continuing Letro for the remainder of the cycle?
  • NO oral Trest
  • 25mg (1/2 pump AM and PM) dermatrest
  • 1 pumps a day (1/2 pump AM and PM) of Sup3r-11
  • 15mg x3 epistane (45mg Epistane)
  • 1.25mg Letro ED
  • Drop all GHRP's and CJC - No GH stimulation anymore due to MEGA bloat.
  • PEG MGF - Post workout only
  • TUDCA 1000mg/day

I'll post the photo from my phone in another post.
 
Cgkone said:
So you've been off peptides for how long?
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Didn't see your other question. Since the 3rd. I dialed back the CJC a week or so before when I started getting bloated, going from 3 down to like 1.5-2mg / week. See my most recent post I feel and look much better today. I think it was probably combo bloat, but really changing both things at teh same time I have no clue. Very unscientific I know.
 
mmorso said:
Cgkone why the cardio before cjc? Interested...

Also sespress what's your trest dose at? With the trest and all the Peptides it's prob hard to tell what's going on

Give us some updates man... how's weight and waist measurements? Where's your deadlift, squat and bench at? Any PR's? Noodz? The hell man
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mmorso - finally got updates on here and then you don't chime back in. The hell man! :P
 
sespress said:
mmorso - finally got updates on here and then you don't chime back in. The hell man! :P
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Lol man give a guy a little time. I was at the gym

Using Letro to control e, (from what I know) is like using a sledgehammer to swat a fly. I'd ask some guys that know their sh1t if taking letro ed is safe... might really fck your lipids up bro
 
mmorso said:
Lol man give a guy a little time. I was at the gym

Using Letro to control e, (from what I know) is like using a sledgehammer to swat a fly. I'd ask some guys that know their sh1t if taking letro ed is safe... might really fck your lipids up bro
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That's why I'm asking! I honestly picked the stuff up for this exact reason. To sledgehammer if needed... But now what?

Switching back to exemestane is fine, seems letro did the trick. What dose should I think about going back in on?

@ anyone with xp with letro?
 
Hey ok photos. One resting and the other two are posed.

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I don't know how much is visable. There's some puffyness in general but man three other day it was so much worse.

There's a bit of what looks like an issue on pic 2 but that's only happens to my chest when I pull my arm in close. No gyno, just fat.

I hope in another few days I'll show up leaner than I am now following the trend of this bloating going away
 
It's a journey.
Good for you to take the plunge.
Yourcycling complex drugs IMO.
Lots of sides with trest and epistane.
I would call it an advanced cycle.
Even though many call epistane a beginner prohormone.
Trest in my opinion is the strongest PH you can get.
So play it safe. Pay close attention to your body and vitals.
If your having fun, gaining some size and strength. And learning. Your suceeding
 
Oh and from what I know about letro is its very very very strong.
Letro is for emergencies.
I've had a bottle for 1.5 years and never even opened it.
Crashing e2 is the worse feeling I've ever felt
 
sespress said:
I don't know how much is visable. There's some puffyness in general but man three other day it was so much worse.

There's a bit of what looks like an issue on pic 2 but that's only happens to my chest when I pull my arm in close. No gyno, just fat.

I hope in another few days I'll show up leaner than I am now following the trend of this bloating going away
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That's more pseudo gyno.
No lump no gyno.
I hold water lower chest all the way around to armpit. And it's the last place to lean up on me.
Good news is ......way better than real gyno
 
Cgkone said:
It's a journey.
Good for you to take the plunge.
Yourcycling complex drugs IMO.
Lots of sides with trest and epistane.
I would call it an advanced cycle.
Even though many call epistane a beginner prohormone.
Trest in my opinion is the strongest PH you can get.
So play it safe. Pay close attention to your body and vitals.
If your having fun, gaining some size and strength. And learning. Your suceeding
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I ran Epistane way back when it was still out, had no issues, but of course I was also in much better shape to begin with. Trest does seem to be tricky, but if I can switch back to Exemestane, maybe at a little higher of a dose and keep the letro handy that's what I'll try to do. Thanks for your advice on everything. Is much appreciated.
 
sespress said:
I ran Epistane way back when it was still out, had no issues, but of course I was also in much better shape to begin with. Trest does seem to be tricky, but if I can switch back to Exemestane, maybe at a little higher of a dose and keep the letro handy that's what I'll try to do. Thanks for your advice on everything. Is much appreciated.
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I agree with trest and epistane being an advanced cycle, which is why the 11kt and all the Peptides are over complicating it and making it hard for you to tell what's going on... honestly, if it were me, I'd only run trest/epistane with an AI and save the 11kt for later and the peptides for PCT...

It just seem counterintuitive to me to be getting bloated while trying to recomp... fck that sh1t.

I'd also play around with your diet man.. watch sodium and maybe carb cycle or something
 
11kt is for sure not even being affective in that cycle.
I would up the cardio, tighten up the diet.
Upper body reps in the 15-25 range
Lower body reps 25-35 range
Run epistane as your main drug.
Use trest as pre workout and a go to if you feel libido loss or low energy because of testosterone supression
 
Cgkone said:
11kt is for sure not even being affective in that cycle.
I would up the cardio, tighten up the diet.
Upper body reps in the 15-25 range
Lower body reps 25-35 range
Run epistane as your main drug.
Use trest as pre workout and a go to if you feel libido loss or low energy because of testosterone supression
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I thought cycles all upped your cortisol, which is why I thought about it in here? Why not effective? I can def increase sets, I have days I'll do that with lighter weights cause something is bothering me anyhow but I usually go for 6-12 depending on the exercises. You think this will revolutionize results? I've always been told and probably not correctly that 6-12 was optimal for muscle building, higher sets for endurance. Will the overall increase in sets equate to more fat burn than putting on more muscle would through just general metabolic increase?

And your recommendation would be Trest.. Oral PWO Only? I was initially thinking I could run it as a base and then PWO also, then heard about how bad jerking around the levels might be so went to use as a TD base. It was great PWO though, better than Epi andro.

Sigh. I'm googling things today as we've been talking but I'll admit this is day 3 of my 13 hour shifts and my brain power is gone. If I'm starting to sound stupider than normal it's probably that and I'll review all of this stuff tomorrow over my weekend.
 
sespress said:
I thought cycles all upped your cortisol, which is why I thought about it in here? Why not effective? I can def increase sets, I have days I'll do that with lighter weights cause something is bothering me anyhow but I usually go for 6-12 depending on the exercises. You think this will revolutionize results? I've always been told and probably not correctly that 6-12 was optimal for muscle building, higher sets for endurance. Will the overall increase in sets equate to more fat burn than putting on more muscle would through just general metabolic increase?

And your recommendation would be Trest.. Oral PWO Only? I was initially thinking I could run it as a base and then PWO also, then heard about how bad jerking around the levels might be so went to use as a TD base. It was great PWO though, better than Epi andro.

Sigh. I'm googling things today as we've been talking but I'll admit this is day 3 of my 13 hour shifts and my brain power is gone. If I'm starting to sound stupider than normal it's probably that and I'll review all of this stuff tomorrow over my weekend.
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I'd focus on the epi and use the trest as a base in the sense of keeping libido and energy.
I'm just judging from the pics. But yes I'd switch it up a bit. And go higher on the reps with the weight as high as possible but still achieve the intended reps.
So each set your burning and squeezing.
Short break and lower the weight a LITTLE and boom your at it again pushing for 25 reps.
Sweating panting and going for the biggest pump possible.
Lower body even higher reps same routine.
Time to freak your body out.
Force it to adapt.
The way you adapt to high reps high speed high volume???? Lean and harden out. Burn fat build muscle.
Try it. Give that a try
 
But 8-12 is the right rep range....
But not always. That's in a perfect scenario.
I'm judging by your pics not changing much and you desiring to recomp
Recomps usually turn into lean bulks.
Blast those sets hard and fast with minimum rest.
 
Cgkone said:
I'd focus on the epi and use the trest as a base in the sense of keeping libido and energy.
I'm just judging from the pics. But yes I'd switch it up a bit. And go higher on the reps with the weight as high as possible but still achieve the intended reps.
So each set your burning and squeezing.
Short break and lower the weight a LITTLE and boom your at it again pushing for 25 reps.
Sweating panting and going for the biggest pump possible.
Lower body even higher reps same routine.
Time to freak your body out.
Force it to adapt.
The way you adapt to high reps high speed high volume???? Lean and harden out. Burn fat build muscle.
Try it. Give that a try
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Alright, I will give that a shot!
 
mmorso said:
Exactly... and estrogen rebound from the epistane. Which is why he really needs to get sh1t under control now IMO
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That's the main reason I became so invested in this thread.
Lots of powerful drugs pics look about the same as the first ones
I could totally see that epustane trest combo being an overload of feeling that side track from training and diet.
He should feel like super man and there should be some more obvious changes.
At least he's open to suggestions.
 
mmorso said:
Exactly... and estrogen rebound from the epistane. Which is why he really needs to get sh1t under control now IMO
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Fair enough, I've cut down the Trest and dropped all the other fun stuff. Other than seeing if swapping exemestane back in will be ok I dunno what else to try. Was told the other day a blood test won't do me any good with all the AI floating about so other than drop the doses and whatnot the next step is discontinue early which is in the cards if needed. I'll be good.
 
Cgkone said:
That's the main reason I became so invested in this thread.
Lots of powerful drugs pics look about the same as the first ones
I could totally see that epustane trest combo being an overload of feeling that side track from training and diet.
He should feel like super man and there should be some more obvious changes.
At least he's open to suggestions.
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Uhm, well I'm glad for the advice, so thanks? Lol no it's cool man if I hadn't gotten into the Peptides I think I'd be much better off, it complicated things and this was a heavy one going in. I guess I miss the pre car wreck well built guy I was who did mess with gear. Problem likely is I've got more money to toss and there's new interesting things out like various Peptides. I tapped the breaks a fee times so far and I'm tapping them again. Regardless of anything I am learning a lot and progress has been made.

And I do feel pretty ****ing amazing now that some of that bloat resided =) I'm still certain I'm going to get some positive results regardless of set backs and hey if it turns out that I don't I won't be hitting the stash again until another 10-20 come off and with a lighter touch.
 
I would nail down *exactly* what my current maintenance intake is, using a macro app and a scale. Then I'd do a -500 to -750kcal cut using nothing but EC or ECY (or whatever other "normal", well studied ingredients you want to use) using Calipers and Tape Measures on the abdomen. In 8-12 weeks all that "stuff" you've been taking should have cleared, and you can get an accurate look at your blood markers. You'll also be down about 25lbs. More body fat = more estrogen. I get it, I was where you are once - but it's a lifelong marathon. Save the heavier stuff for when you're lighter. This thread is like throwing darts at a rotating board, on a boat in rough seas... blind folded :D
 
Oh I'm all over a macro calculator my friend, I'm keeping my calories at 2k. Maintenance was like 2300+ I did this a while ago and then got all my food worked out. I don't use the calc everyday anymore cause I eat the same crap everyday practically. Recalculate will be a good idea now that things have changed. About a 33% split over the board and the carbs are not breads, veggies and things like waffles with protien powder baked in. Breakfast is eggs and 1 step of bacon. I'm not totally out of touch eating ? and drinking beer.

Listen I effed up. Things were going swimmingly before I started tossing in Peptides and then cruised right into gear. I added a sudden 10+lbs. That's like over two weeks at the end of February into March, first week of this cycle. Now it's not really dropping, I'm starting to think there's no more water involved and I hit some circuit, some pathway that wasn't intended and it wacked out my metabolics.

I'm almost done with this dermatrest like 3 or 4 days from this which was a leaky bottle and short to begin with, them I'm done just epistane for the duration. I'm gonna stick in that for a week and watch everything else like a hawk.

For instance bp has been doing great, 113/72 this AM and the highest it's been is like 130 in months. I'm gonna get bloods done, I already have the voucher I just want to check my liver isn't in rebellion against the crown, and it'd be interesting to see how far down test dropped so far. The e2 numbers will be screwed but at least I'll see if my enzymes are up. And that's good peace of mind. I was even testing blood sugar for a bit.

Here's my issue. I way over think/do everything. Life in general right? I can't apply that to gear obviously, my little andro run proved nothing apparently. Lesson learned well. I can go minimalist which is likely to happen now. Remember a few months ago you posted about all the OTC supps I was trying? I ended up hitting the breaks then too but got back on the gas.

You all are great, I'm gonna keep this open but I'll just post when I have some crap to report other than mass confusion over gear lol. I'll stay with logging exercises while the epistane is going. It's gonna snow in like what 12 hours and I'll be buried so talk to y'all in a few days. Back day is tomorrow (grabs shovel).
 
Ok yesterday was chest. I tried the 25 rep sets. I'm not used to this and was suprised at how sore I was and how little weight adds up over 20 reps. I didn't always make it, over estimating my endurance vs strength. I kinda got the gauge of how much I could push to 25 and hit failure before I had to quit from the burn as I was going through so I think next time I'll be more organized and know where to start. Bench normals are like 155 starting for 8 and then down a few lbs and for 10 ... Etc. 1rm is probably like 165+? I haven't had anyone to spot me in forever so I haven't tried maxing out under a bar =)

I'm glad this was suggested because it's obvious that I'm going to want to work on endurance more, focusing on strength and rep weight increase over time and I've not tried high high rep since I came back to the gym after my accident.

We used to do these retarded curls back in the day. 20lbs x100 reps. You'll have to put it down before 100 so say you get to 45, 100-45=55 so 55 rest seconds and pick it back up at 46. Get to 73. 100-73=27 so 27 rest seconds and back up at 74, etc... Those exercises really really killed, I remember enjoying it.

Bench press: 95*25, 90*20, 85*20
Cable press: 70*14 (wrist turned and I had to drop the weight). 50*25, 45*25.
Cable fly: -- high to low -- 40*15, 30*15
-- mid to mid -- 30*20, 25*20
Cable "scoops" -- low to mid -- 30*25, 25*20, wrist turned again, dammit.

Gave my left hand some time and did a 3.5mph 12% incline for about 20 minutes. Heart rate was 125 getting on the thing and up to 135-140 near the end.

Tricep cable extension - 55*20, (dropped weight a lot) 35*25, 30,*18.
Push-ups -- 20, 10, 5
Back to tricep cable extension - 30*15, 20*10... Ok I'm done the high rep low break period wore me down surprisingly soon. Taking like a minute and not two or three before the next set.

Oh and the pumps. Wow. I don't PWO drink really anymore, they just make me need to crap half way through the workout lol so I haven't used a "pump" product in a bit. I was getting them before, at the start of tht cycle, but the high rep made them almost painful. Maybe more Taurine.

Today would have been back and bi but I'll be shoveling my heart away in about 5 hours for the next... Uh two days so I made it a rest day.

Didn't weigh in before I got to my girls. Forgot while packing. Hers is out of batteries. Will weigh back in around Thursday.

I might log my snow digging lol. Could be a good time to write something funny.
 
sespress said:
Ok yesterday was chest. I tried the 25 rep sets. I'm not used to this and was suprised at how sore I was and how little weight adds up over 20 reps. I didn't always make it, over estimating my endurance vs strength. I kinda got the gauge of how much I could push to 25 and hit failure before I had to quit from the burn as I was going through so I think next time I'll be more organized and know where to start. Bench normals are like 155 starting for 8 and then down a few lbs and for 10 ... Etc. 1rm is probably like 165+? I haven't had anyone to spot me in forever so I haven't tried maxing out under a bar =)

I'm glad this was suggested because it's obvious that I'm going to want to work on endurance more, focusing on strength and rep weight increase over time and I've not tried high high rep since I came back to the gym after my accident.

We used to do these retarded curls back in the day. 20lbs x100 reps. You'll have to put it down before 100 so say you get to 45, 100-45=55 so 55 rest seconds and pick it back up at 46. Get to 73. 100-73=27 so 27 rest seconds and back up at 74, etc... Those exercises really really killed, I remember enjoying it.

Bench press: 95*25, 90*20, 85*20
Cable press: 70*14 (wrist turned and I had to drop the weight). 50*25, 45*25.
Cable fly: -- high to low -- 40*15, 30*15
-- mid to mid -- 30*20, 25*20
Cable "scoops" -- low to mid -- 30*25, 25*20, wrist turned again, dammit.

Gave my left hand some time and did a 3.5mph 12% incline for about 20 minutes. Heart rate was 125 getting on the thing and up to 135-140 near the end.

Tricep cable extension - 55*20, (dropped weight a lot) 35*25, 30,*18.
Push-ups -- 20, 10, 5
Back to tricep cable extension - 30*15, 20*10... Ok I'm done the high rep low break period wore me down surprisingly soon. Taking like a minute and not two or three before the next set.

Oh and the pumps. Wow. I don't PWO drink really anymore, they just make me need to crap half way through the workout lol so I haven't used a "pump" product in a bit. I was getting them before, at the start of tht cycle, but the high rep made them almost painful. Maybe more Taurine.

Today would have been back and bi but I'll be shoveling my heart away in about 5 hours for the next... Uh two days so I made it a rest day.

Didn't weigh in before I got to my girls. Forgot while packing. Hers is out of batteries. Will weigh back in around Thursday.

I might log my snow digging lol. Could be a good time to write something funny.
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Brother you keep the reps high for the next 4 weeks your gonna see change.
Shocking your body forces it to adapt and grow. I think it will make that epistane work better for you.
Chase that pump my man!!
 
Snow log! First let me Post this nice clean drivewayInvalid Link Removed

Great! So **** you mother nature. They was three trips outside. 2-3 hours each time. I'm gonna be effing sore tomorrow.

This obviously took the place of back and bi. I'll do shoulders tomorrow next day.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
You should have just Deadlifted the front of that Matchbox Car around to the right, and driven out your neighbors side :D
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Haha, yeah it's the smallest car for a 6' 260lb guy. My friends actually picked it up and moved it down the block on me at a party years ago. Only took 6 guys to literally move the car a block. Apparently they nearly threw out thier backs doing it lol. Funny stuff.

I had to park in a garage in the city once for a job interview the ONLY spot I found was not a spot but mini car got in there for me.... But I had to crawl out the hatch back trunk, fell over trying it, there's a cop in the garage watching me the whole time and he decides to just watch the show and laugh. Then tells me don't worry I won't tow the car, you tired so hard. And told me to get a larger car. It's got 175k on it and never in the shop so I'll be in that tiny thing for a while yet.

I went back out at 9 PM and finished the damn thing. I'll throw up if I see another shovel.
 
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This chick does it to a Fiat 10 times. About the same weight as my car.

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One thing I've noticed is a bit of an up and down feeling from the dose timings. Am I doing this right? In the AM I wake up and feel... Bleh. Am half pump Trest and 1 15mg epistane. Feeling great 10 minutes later. Noon 15mg epistane. Start to feel...Bleh again around 3pm. 6pm another half pump of Trest and 15mg epistane. Seems like the Trest is the emotional rollercoaster effect. It's not crazy strong I just feel like I'd rather play a video game and not talk. After the dose I'm ready to conquer. I'm assuming this is.. semi normal? It isn't holding me back just noting that even with slow TD absorbtion it's still a spike and let down effect, much like all drugs (except esterified testosterone from what I understand being very even).
 
Another​ thing to note, in case someone who is learning reads this (the rest of you guys know this), water intake on this stack is Anand l amazingly crucial. Now I've always drank near a gallon a day. When I was on 4ad and Epi andro if I had a busy day at work and didn't drink anything for a while my pee would darken a bit. Well. This stuff is like way way more is needed. I bumped it up and I'm actually forcing water when I'm not thirsty. I didn't drink much yesterday while shoveling, I drank water but not like the normal amount. Last evening my urine was very dark. Chugged a liter of water and sat down with a San Pellegrino (my treat yourself to a soda lie) and killed it, then another few glasses. Next urination was better but not clear. As if this am I've gotten back to a normal color. So keep the intake at 1Gal+ ED. I imagine that the sulphur grip on epistane is going a long way to producing that urine color and smell.

BP this am was 113/70, perhaps I'll take it again once I've been moving that's like I was asleep. More water and now I've gotta shovel the entrance since the plows came back
 
I'm just on trest still because my epi got lost in the mail. Zero rollercoaster here. I'm dosing TD 1mlx2 morning and 4pm and oral 50-75mg PWO. Very even feeling for me. I've also had a day when I slipped and ran way short on water. No dark urine.
 
sespress said:
Another​ thing to note, in case someone who is learning reads this (the rest of you guys know this), water intake on this stack is Anand l amazingly crucial. Now I've always drank near a gallon a day. When I was on 4ad and Epi andro if I had a busy day at work and didn't drink anything for a while my pee would darken a bit. Well. This stuff is like way way more is needed. I bumped it up and I'm actually forcing water when I'm not thirsty. I didn't drink much yesterday while shoveling, I drank water but not like the normal amount. Last evening my urine was very dark. Chugged a liter of water and sat down with a San Pellegrino (my treat yourself to a soda lie) and killed it, then another few glasses. Next urination was better but not clear. As if this am I've gotten back to a normal color. So keep the intake at 1Gal+ ED. I imagine that the sulphur grip on epistane is going a long way to producing that urine color and smell.

BP this am was 113/70, perhaps I'll take it again once I've been moving that's like I was asleep. More water and now I've gotta shovel the entrance since the plows came back
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Blood pressure is perfect.
Are you taking something to achieve that
 
Your urine is dark due to your liver being stressed... your enzymes were high to begin with right? What are you taking for supports? Have any TUDCA and Ar1macare Pro?
 
habajaba said:
I'm just on trest still because my epi got lost in the mail. Zero rollercoaster here. I'm dosing TD 1mlx2 morning and 4pm and oral 50-75mg PWO. Very even feeling for me. I've also had a day when I slipped and ran way short on water. No dark urine.
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Fcking gay as fck bro! Your epi got lost in the mail!!! Sh1t bud that sucks ass!!!
 
I'd be sketchy if my piss was anything but clear. 2 gallons on workoutdays for sure. 1.5 otherwise
 
habajaba said:
I'm just on trest still because my epi got lost in the mail. Zero rollercoaster here. I'm dosing TD 1mlx2 morning and 4pm and oral 50-75mg PWO. Very even feeling for me. I've also had a day when I slipped and ran way short on water. No dark urine.
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Yeah it's not that bad, I think I'm overstating the effect. Just a up and down in energy.
 
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