"IGF-I (1,3)" Information/Assistance - neither DES nor LR3.

[saywutrly]

I was hoping someone around here would have some good information regarding this compound. I've searched high and low and looked through many research papers on IGF to no avail.

I've gotten a hold of some IGF which is not LR3 nor DES. I'm able to get either of those from the same place, but this was included as a bonus over cyber week.

My question is, what the hell is IGF-I (1,3) and how should this be dosed? As near as I can tell, this is just a weird name for regular IGF which has neither the Long Range addition nor the truncation to create the DES version. If so, this could likely be useful to a BB on a budget like myself as it is considerably cheaper than either DES or LR3. Any constructive input will be greatly appreciated!

 

[sespress]

I was hoping someone around here would have some good information regarding this compound. I've searched high and low and looked through many research papers on IGF to no avail.

I've gotten a hold of some IGF which is not LR3 nor DES. I'm able to get either of those from the same place, but this was included as a bonus over cyber week.

My question is, what the hell is IGF-I (1,3) and how should this be dosed? As near as I can tell, this is just a weird name for regular IGF which has neither the Long Range addition nor the truncation to create the DES version. If so, this could likely be useful to a BB on a budget like myself as it is considerably cheaper than either DES or LR3. Any constructive input will be greatly appreciated!

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'd this modification kind of like the conjugation they do to cjc-1295 W/DAC to prevent breakdown? I tried googling it too and came up with not much.

 

[saywutrly]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'd this modification kind of like the conjugation they do to cjc-1295 W/DAC to prevent breakdown? I tried googling it too and came up with not much.

I've been in and out of a bunch of search engines on this. When I say I spend days researching, I mean like waking till sleeping, not a couple hours a day. LOL

The problem you're running into is that due to the 1,3 part the search engine lumps in LR3 results. That happened to me also. You are correct that lr3 is just IGF modified for extended bioactivity similar to CJC-1295, but this isn't that. I know because the supplier stocks LR3 at a much higher price.

 

[sespress]

I've been in and out of a bunch of search engines on this. When I say I spend days researching, I mean like waking till sleeping, not a couple hours a day. LOL

The problem you're running into is that due to the 1,3 part the search engine lumps in LR3 results. That happened to me also. You are correct that lr3 is just IGF modified for extended bioactivity similar to CJC-1295, but this isn't that. I know because the supplier stocks LR3 at a much higher price.

Hmm let me try using wildcards and such. You can put things in quotes and then do a -thingidontwant in Google. So exact phrase, then filter for the term after the -. I need to get back to me desk to try. I'm in the company gym playing hooky from my shift at the moment. My co workers are all at the company holiday party so they can go eff themselves, I might as well workout (and get paid to do so!)

 

[saywutrly]

Hmm let me try using wildcards and such. You can put things in quotes and then do a -thingidontwant in Google. So exact phrase, then filter for the term after the -. I need to get back to me desk to try. I'm in the company gym playing hooky from my shift at the moment. My co workers are all at the company holiday party so they can go eff themselves, I might as well workout (and get paid to do so!)

But of course, brother! If I had a gym at my last corporate job, I'd probably still work there.

 

[sespress]

But of course, brother! If I had a gym at my last corporate job, I'd probably still work there.

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Hope this is the panoramic. Decent setup. Free weights in the back. Cardio. Etc.. it gets the job done. Typical though no straight bars or benches. That's a liability thing.

Edited think this time it's the panorama

 

[Evan Bageris]

Yeah, It doesn't look like you got your answer. If you did excuse the redundancy, please. (1,3) describes the DES, which is kind of disappointing but true nonetheless. Everyone has shortened the name but it is written DES IGF (1,3). Which denotes the truncation of 3 amino acids so that it can fit into IGF-1 receptors that have been mangled by lactic acid. Like from training. So IGF -1 rh is a 70 amino acid polypeptide chain, lr3 is 83 and DES is 67. The really good stuff, Increlex, is like pharma GH in that it is supposed be incredible. I saw a UGL that carried it for the first time about a week ago. 1 Mg: $2,200. You had to call and special order it but it was on their list. I think very little is made because of limited applications in real medicine. Hope that helps.

 

[saywutrly]

Yeah, It doesn't look like you got your answer. If you did excuse the redundancy, please. (1,3) describes the DES, which is kind of disappointing but true nonetheless. Everyone has shortened the name but it is written DES IGF (1,3). Which denotes the truncation of 3 amino acids so that it can fit into IGF-1 receptors that have been mangled by lactic acid. Like from training. So IGF -1 rh is a 70 amino acid polypeptide chain, lr3 is 83 and DES is 67. The really good stuff, Increlex, is like pharma GH in that it is supposed be incredible. I saw a UGL that carried it for the first time about a week ago. 1 Mg: $2,200. You had to call and special order it but it was on their list. I think very little is made because of limited applications in real medicine. Hope that helps.

Thanks for the information, brother! That's definitely helpful. The seller sells DES and LR3 at a much higher price than this IGF. I'm thinking that this may be the regular, vanilla 70 amino acid variant instead of the 67aa DES or the 83aa LR3. This would explain the fact that the two modified versions cost way more than this one and also explain why it has the 1,3 yet not the DES.

Now, you stated that the modification to DES served to make it more effective in damaged muscle. I knew that the modifications to make the DES compound served to make it stronger, yet shorter acting, though I wasn't aware of the mechanism of action. Do you postulate that regular IGF would be significantly less effective in damaged muscle tissue without this modification to allow it to interact with the damaged receptors?

Yes, unfortunately the pharma stuff is extremely expensive. I agree that the price is artificially higher than the increase in efficacy must be between the pharma and the research variants due to the inherent lack of supply you described. It also depends on how those pharma units were stored and handled. It is my understanding that IGF is even more unstable than HGH.

 

[Evan Bageris]

You have done your homework. Good to see. Yes, the DES can definetly lock onto receptors that aren't recognized by the other types. This is one reason it works well when pinned Preworkout. IGF as.you know is has both paracrine and autocrine subtypes. The systemic IGF created when HGH is broken down by the liver travels through the bloodstream and can bind to wherever receptors are located. By training we hope to guide preferentially to sensjtized muscle cells. The problem with systemic is,the intestines have a plethora of IGF receptors which is why I think doses of Lr3 should be kept to a minmum. With such a long life it has plenty of time to search for receptors and it doesn't take much to saturate muscle tissue. The DES mimics locally produced IGF and can access more receptors. It's short life is a blessing because it will be used by the muscle you injected it into and will spend the majority of it's life right where you want it. That's the theory anyway. It is also much more resistant to binding proteins because of the,aforementioned truncation. You might not get as much systemic growth but if that includes organs then there much better ways of. Promoting whole body anabolism.
S

 

[saywutrly]

You have done your homework. Good to see. Yes, the DES can definetly lock onto receptors that aren't recognized by the other types. This is one reason it works well when pinned Preworkout. IGF as.you know is has both paracrine and autocrine subtypes. The systemic IGF created when HGH is broken down by the liver travels through the bloodstream and can bind to wherever receptors are located. By training we hope to guide preferentially to sensjtized muscle cells. The problem with systemic is,the intestines have a plethora of IGF receptors which is why I think doses of Lr3 should be kept to a minmum. With such a long life it has plenty of time to search for receptors and it doesn't take much to saturate muscle tissue. The DES mimics locally produced IGF and can access more receptors. It's short life is a blessing because it will be used by the muscle you injected it into and will spend the majority of it's life right where you want it. That's the theory anyway. It is also much more resistant to binding proteins because of the,aforementioned truncation. You might not get as much systemic growth but if that includes organs then there much better ways of. Promoting whole body anabolism.
S

Oh yes, brother. I'm a big proponent of doing your own research. I also have preexisting chemistry knowledge from other forays, so understanding this stuff comes a little more easily. Some of the questions I post sit for awhile since I try to rule out the obvious first. I believe in always pushing others to do the same. Knowledge is both power and safety.

Thanks for taking the time with your in-depth replies. I have sampled what seems to be this regular IGF both pre and post workout. I did the pre times without any pre-workout or anything, and the pumps were noticeably better. My girlfriend said that my biceps matched my triceps for once lol (my biceps don't like to keep up with my tris.)

Next time I'll try some DES just to see the differences and post back since this seems to be the only thread on the internet involving IGF which is neither DES or LR3.

I must also agree with your distaste for LR3. Same thing goes for true CJC-1295 (with the DAC). Many bros love the results but I'm just over here like, "but, man, the human body isn't designed to have those growth factors floating around everywhere at static high levels all the time." It's my opinion that we are playing with enough fire shooting a quick variant directly into the muscle.

Since this is basically just us talking and it is IGF related, what is your view on the pegylated MGF. I don't see as much of an issue with that because if my research is correct it shouldn't have any affinity for the standard IGF receptors and would travel systemically searching solely for damaged tissue. Am I completely off base on that?

 

[saywutrly]

Hey saywutrly,

Been reading some ur posts. Need to make a comeback. Stopped training for a solid 2 years. No excuses..marriage..work..addiction. kids..this list goes on..other than sign up for a gym membership bought 2 years paid in advance got one year free 2014...Lmao..Exactly. Stacs u can recommend. Legit sites to order...etc..

Hey, man, it's a good reason to get back to it! Anyway, I'd encourage you to read the sticky threads in the appropriate forums and design a thoughtful cycle outline. Even if it needs some significant tweaking, we will help you out once you've put in the effort on your side.

Once you have an idea (or a few) post a new thread and we will help you make final decisions and dial everything in. Feel free to mention me in that thread so it lets me know and I'm more than happy to help.

 

[Smont]

I was hoping someone around here would have some good information regarding this compound. I've searched high and low and looked through many research papers on IGF to no avail.

I've gotten a hold of some IGF which is not LR3 nor DES. I'm able to get either of those from the same place, but this was included as a bonus over cyber week.

My question is, what the hell is IGF-I (1,3) and how should this be dosed? As near as I can tell, this is just a weird name for regular IGF which has neither the Long Range addition nor the truncation to create the DES version. If so, this could likely be useful to a BB on a budget like myself as it is considerably cheaper than either DES or LR3. Any constructive input will be greatly appreciated!

Ive been searching around for a while and cant find a damn thing.

 

[Smont]

Everything comes up as des(1,3)igf

 

[saywutrly]

Everything comes up as des(1,3)igf

We decided that our best guess, as stated in one of my later posts here, is that this is neither. As near as one can tell, there is the LR3 which has the addition of IGFBP3 to total 83 amino acids and increase the active timeframe, the DES which is truncated a shorter chain to increase it's ability to dock with damaged IGF receptors, then there's plain old IGF which is the 70aa chain and is closest to what the human body produces (albeit a synthetic version). I've been using it for a few weeks at 40mcg per muscle and it works more how DES is described. I'm sure DES would work even better, but this is a LOT cheaper which is why I thought it was of such a great interest to myself and the community.

If anyone can provide evidence that our conclusion is incorrect, please do for the good of the community, but this is the best information we have on it right now.

 

[Smont]

I got most of that. Keep us updated on how it works

 

[saywutrly]

I got most of that. Keep us updated on how it works

So far so good. Almost through the first vial using this standard IGF on workout days post-workout and PEG-MGF on off days and have seen very good results. My girlfriend and a couple buddies have all noted my arm development (previously a very tough area for me to develop). I did measure my arms at 15-3/4" before starting. I can grab a measurement tonight to quantify any improvements.

A note about the above, I've been told that short IGF (standard and DES) actually work better after a workout vs before. You trade the extra pump for extra results. That also seems to ring true as this is working well.

 

[Smont]

I dont know a ton about igf. Ive never got into it from seeing the price of legit igf vs the stuff around for sale, it just didn't make sense. That said, if its working for you awsome, maybe i need to start doing a lil research on it. Question, ypur taking it post wo, do you need to take carbs with it like insulin? Can you go hypo from igf? Im gonna start doing my research.

 

[saywutrly]

I dont know a ton about igf. Ive never got into it from seeing the price of legit igf vs the stuff around for sale, it just didn't make sense. That said, if its working for you awsome, maybe i need to start doing a lil research on it. Question, ypur taking it post wo, do you need to take carbs with it like insulin? Can you go hypo from igf? Im gonna start doing my research.

I suggest a ton of research. I've only heard of hypo from huge doses of LR3 because it goes systemic (not localized to the muscle). The other two are injected right into the muscle trained and are not capable of causing hypoglycemia as per my research.

We also touched on the cost issue earlier in the thread. The difference in cost between legit pharma IGF is because of the rarity more than the difficulty to synthesize or stabilize. There's no common medical indication for IGF as with, say, HGH. The amount manufactured as pharma is tiny, and the amount which gets diverted to the black market is even more tiny.

That's why I decided to give it a shot; a market factor much more strongly influences price than a manufacturing factor in many cases of my experience.