SoupNaziNazi
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Interested in an over the counter T booster for my dad. Something that won't break the bank. Any suggestions/personal experiences is greatly welcome
I would second the recommendation for Alphamax XT. It contains a powerful natural test boosting profile including Urtica Dioica, Mucuna Pruriens, and Longjack - which are three highly studied and tested ingredients for increasing natural test. Alphamax XT also contains a natural AI, DHAA, which can help limit cortisol and estrogen production while the other ingredients work to boost test. It also contains Forskolin, which is studied to improve body composition (fat loss and muscle gain); and Ashwagandha, which can be beneficial for reducing stress and improving recovery.Interested in an over the counter T booster for my dad. Something that won't break the bank. Any suggestions/personal experiences is greatly welcome
Well then he will be disappointed if he is looking for "gains" from a test booster product. They are good for a number of things, but gains are not one of them. Please don't listen to the company reps telling you about gains from their test booster product.Thanks for the replies fellas. He does work out and is mostly looking for all the positive effects of higher T. Kinda broad but I'd say leaning towards gains the most if I had to pinpoint
i'm 58, I've been using test boosters for a little over 10 years...currently i'm using m-test [on week 3], m-test is already at the top of my list of favorite test boosters. m-test won't break the bank, it can be found for around $30...I highly recommend this product, and the price is very reasonable, imo!!!Interested in an over the counter T booster for my dad. Something that won't break the bank. Any suggestions/personal experiences is greatly welcome
nice...I will be trying kingsblood after my 2 bottles of m-test...but I have to say I am impressed so far with m-test...I am 52...the things that have helped me are the following:
KSM-66
Shilajit
HGW standardized to 50% icariin
Tongkat Ali (I have had good success with OL LJ100, Tonvara, and Alivel 3x100)
Butea Superba (Barlowe's)
Astragulus
Now, having said that, I have four bottles of M-Test that I just ordered which has a lot of what I just listed but some I didn't. I said to myself, finally, something that has a lot of what I want in one bottle. What I will do is that if I feel M-Test is lacking in any areas, I have the individual components to bring it up to what I want (there may be zero that I have to do...we will see). I have also ordered a couple bottles of OL K1ng's Blood...I plan on doing two bottles of M-Test, followed by one bottle of the K1ng's Blood, rinse, repeat. Danes thebigt and some others will have some good info for you as well.
I see the foe's of test boosters have been here, lol....I also advocate your dad get a blood test to see where he stands, but don't think trt is a miracle cure...I was on trt for 7 years and it was a almost constant headache. every time I would get my level to where I felt good they were always wanting to reduce dose- don't forget that testosterone is classified on the same level as narcotics...finally I developed polycythemia and was taken off trt cold turkey.Thanks for the replies fellas. He does work out and is mostly looking for all the positive effects of higher T. Kinda broad but I'd say leaning towards gains the most if I had to pinpoint
I too was on TRT and it didn't help me that much believe it or not....didn't even get 100 points over my base; now granted, they weren't pinning me, just the gel stuff. That was about 10 years ago and was on it for about a year or a bit more. Ditched that crap as it wasn't helping. Then came here. Started asking about what I should do. The usual answers came in...get your levels checked, already knew I was on the low end from testing before...then the really usual answers came in..."TRT bro, that's the only way"I see the foe's of test boosters have been here, lol....I also advocate your dad get a blood test to see where he stands, but don't think trt is a miracle cure...I was on trt for 7 years and it was a almost constant headache. every time I would get my level to where I felt good they were always wanting to reduce dose- don't forget that testosterone is classified on the same level as narcotics...finally I developed polycythemia and was taken off trt cold turkey.
test boosters have improved my quality of life immensely and I think your dad will enjoy the effects also.
I probably wouldn't judge TRT effectiveness based on a sh^tty doctor who scripted you Gel. We pretty much nailed down in another thread, where users reported their actual blood work numbers, that you get about a 100-200 point increase in Total, a possible nice jump in Free, and "Feel God/Libido" boosts. If you're not too low, this can push you into "feel good" range. But the 'Evangelists' need to mellow out on the claims, just like they think the 'foes' need to do about the detractors. I'm in the middle....now granted, they weren't pinning me, just the gel stuff.
Bought the same during Thanksgiving salesBut hey, what do you know one of those foes has just placed an order of M-Test + epiplex, following purchase of a bottle of Kings Blood (which I'm still waiting to arrive). I put my money where my mouth so feel quite entitled to share my unbiased and unsponsored opinions
I disagree I think people are too concerned with estrogen. And most if, not all, otc anti-e barely even effect E. Estrogen is a good thing, heck a great thing, it just needs be in normal range.The natural anti-estrogen products out there can be more effective at raising test and producing positive body changes than many actual test boosters. For some reason; this market has some of the most potent extracts in my experience. Most test booster ingredients are adaptogens which are great, but they are what they are.
Having said that; the first time I ever tried a test booster, I felt like I was on a prohormone. Dramatic increased in strength, endurance, and size. Random people were coming up to me and saying that I looked huge. Since then, my body has built up somewhat of a tolerance and it will never be like the first time again..
Agree completely, the natural anti estrogen/estrogen control supplements are not intended to annihilate estrogen which is why they are useful and in my experience highly effective at producing noticeable improvements in body composition and performance in and out of the gym. Myokem Alphadex happens to be the one that shined the most for me and people who have not given it a shot owe it to themselves to give it a run. Acacetin in itself is very impressive.I disagree I think people are too concerned with estrogen. And most if, not all, otc anti-e barely even effect E. Estrogen is a good thing, heck a great thing, it just needs be in normal range.
A lot of people do not realize how much of a role estrogen plays in libido either. Good postI disagree I think people are too concerned with estrogen. And most if, not all, otc anti-e barely even effect E. Estrogen is a good thing, heck a great thing, it just needs be in normal range.
Yes, I found that out 4 years ago when I decided to try a test "booster" which also had some AI ingredients. My estrogen plummeted to the point that my sex drive went into the dumpster. Once I figured out what was going on I quit taking it. But it took several months after that to get back in the game. Until then my marriage suffered because my wife thought my needs were being met elsewhere. Just something to be aware of.A lot of people do not realize how much of a role estrogen plays in libido either. Good post
You ever order from Bad Monkey?...add some Butea Superba...
Nope. Just barlowes for Butea.You ever order from Bad Monkey?
Well said man and congratulations on finding what work best for you. Also, you have picked some of the absolute best staple supplements around. They are more or less staples for myself as well. I have yet to try Butea Superba but I am going to order Evomuse Testruction very soon. Sounds like a fun supplement to run!I too was on TRT and it didn't help me that much believe it or not....didn't even get 100 points over my base; now granted, they weren't pinning me, just the gel stuff. That was about 10 years ago and was on it for about a year or a bit more. Ditched that crap as it wasn't helping. Then came here. Started asking about what I should do. The usual answers came in...get your levels checked, already knew I was on the low end from testing before...then the really usual answers came in..."TRT bro, that's the only way"
What helped was me just losing weight and exercising/lifting heavy. I cannot tell you how much that helped because not only did my physical appearance get better, my mind got a lot better...and we all know the mind is a very powerful thing.
I then started researching natural things to help me get back my libido and sex drive. Found the stuff I listed above...I take them all together and it works for me, and works well. I have no idea what my test levels are and frankly I don't care. I feel good and look good and that's what matters to me.
Yeah; In theory (studies) the Divana-Plex lowers DHT so I guess it may kind of even out with the Butea. It still kills me to see supplements that include ingredients that lower DHT and actually put it in the write up as that being a positive thing. Stinging Nettle will probably phase out a bit more as time goes on; much like Fenugreek (Testofen) is virtually non-existent in the top products.I appreciate the props...Even when I do the M-Test I will still have my "staples" of herbs...Butea ain't going anywhere! The HGW will stay...TA will be added since I feel the dose in M-test needs a little boost...Astragalus is staying...and I'll probably keep taking the Trib Alatus since I have so much of it (got it real cheap on a sale from AS)...I will start up the cocoa again...maybe more...we'll see.
Edit: Hmmm...I'm wondering if the Divana-Plex in M-Test will counter the Butea? (Butea raises DHT which I wanted...not worried about balding as I have a full set of hair)
Stinging Nettle isn't so easily dismissed, IMO. The one rat study is only available for $$$, so you can't really see the details on 5-aR Inhibition. The abstract states:Yeah; In theory (studies) the Divana-Plex lowers DHT so I guess it may kind of even out with the Butea. It still kills me to see supplements that include ingredients that lower DHT and actually put it in the write up as that being a positive thing. Stinging Nettle will probably phase out a bit more as time goes on; much like Fenugreek (Testofen) is virtually non-existent in the top products.
I get the feeling that our supplement cabinets look quite similar...haha!
The Examine write up points out a few other things:In vitro studies were conducted to assess the 5α-reductase inhibitory potential of UD. Two biochemical markers viz., β-sitosterol and scopoletin, were isolated and characterised in the extracts utilising High-performance thin layer chromatographic, FTIR, NMR and overlain UV spectral studies
That last part indicates that it does a pretty good job at keeping DHT circulating, by preventing it's binding by SHBG - And - 3,4-Div SOLO, doesn't contain Beta-Sitosterol or Scopoletin, so I can't see that solo lignan interfering with DHT via 5-aR, like *maybe* a full spectrum extract *might*.One rat study noted increases in serum testosterone associated with Stinging Nettle, but all experimental groups also had testosterone supplementation.[6] Stinging Nettle was found to further elevate circulating testosterone levels, however, through a5-reductase inhibition.[6] However, Stinging Nettle root also possesses aromatase inhibitors which may contribute to this effect.[9]
Also, lignans from Stinging Nettle may interfere with Sex-Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) and prevent it from associated with androgens and estrogens. A 10% hydroalcoholic extract can decrease binding of DHT to SHBG by up to 67%, and slightly lesser effects are seen with aqueous extracts.[20][21] The inhibition appears to be dose dependent in vitro.[22] Isolated lignans retain this potency, inhibiting and even displacing DHT from SHGB by 60%(Secoisolariciresinol), 73%(enterofuran) and 95%((-)-3,4-divanillyltetrahydrofuran).[5]
If that was the case, any and all studies are inherently flawed. Bear in mind that studies are not conducted by sponsors, but rather by researchers.It seems that there are studies showing various results with the different extracts. I have read on several sites that focus on the efficacy of specific test boosting ingredients that stinging nettle in any extract does not effect SHBG at all. Tongat Ali holds that title now and always has. I suspect this may be why Olympus Labs does not include stinging nettle in any of their products.
Bottom line; it is all up for speculation when it comes down to it. Most if not all studies with published results are just skewed in favor of whatever the the desired outcome is by the study sponsor etc.
Not even close, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Science on my friend :thumbsup:It seems that there are studies showing various results with the different extracts. I have read on several sites that focus on the efficacy of specific test boosting ingredients that stinging nettle in any extract does not effect SHBG at all. Tongat Ali holds that title now and always has. I suspect this may be why Olympus Labs does not include stinging nettle in any of their products.
Bottom line; it is all up for speculation when it comes down to it. Most if not all studies with published results are just skewed in favor of whatever the the desired outcome is by the study sponsor etc.
m-test is treating me very well...results are the best data for this guy, lol.If that was the case, any and all studies are inherently flawed. Bear in mind that studies are not conducted by sponsors, but rather by researchers.
In any case, data does exist for Stinging Nettle and SHBG interaction. Not sure how one could say no interaction ocurs when it has been demonstrated.
I have the full text (PDF) to that study if you want to see it.Stinging Nettle isn't so easily dismissed, IMO. The one rat study is only available for $$$, so you can't really see the details on 5-aR Inhibition. The abstract states:
The Examine write up points out a few other things:
That last part indicates that it does a pretty good job at keeping DHT circulating, by preventing it's binding by SHBG - And - 3,4-Div SOLO, doesn't contain Beta-Sitosterol or Scopoletin, so I can't see that solo lignan interfering with DHT via 5-aR, like *maybe* a full spectrum extract *might*.
You basically have to make the decision of if you think it's *possible* 5-aR interactions (shown in a test tube), are outweighed by it's pretty awesome looking Aromatase Inhibition and SHBG interfering capabilities.
I can tell you for sure that SN *definitely* helps with urine flow.
As an aside, the term "95% 3,4-Divanil" is always thought to be the purity or quantity in/of the extract... Uh, look at the data above - that "95%" is its displacement % of DHT, to SHBG - come on people!
Just like you stated earlier:The effects of tongkat ali in restoring normal testosterone levels appears to be less due to actually “stimulating” testosterone synthesis, but rather by increasing the release rate of “free” testosterone from its binding hormone, sex-hormone-binding-globulin (SHBG). In this way, eurycoma may be considered not so much a testosterone “booster” (such as an anabolic steroid), but rather a “maintainer” of normal testosterone levels and a “restorer” of normal testosterone levels (from “low” back “up” to normal ranges)
The precise mechanism by which eurypeptides or tongkat ali root extract restores normal testosterone levels is unknown, but has been suggested as influencing the release rate of “free” testosterone from its binding hormone, sex-hormone-binding-globulin (SHBG)
Chaing HS, Merino-Chavez G, Yang LL, Wang FN, Hafez ES. Medicinal plants: conception/contraception. Adv Contracept Deliv Syst. 1994;10(3–4):355–63. [PubMed]
Tambi MI. Proceedings of the SupplySide West International Trade Show and Conference. Virgo Publishing; 2003. Water soluble extract of Eurycoma longifolia in enhancing testosterone in males. Oct 1–3.
Anyway, even if SN/3,4 Div does suck (and I actually agree with the concept of not trying to mess with SHBG when PCT'ing off of DRUGS) - "All studies are bias and have conflicting interests" was not the smartest comment to make....stinging nettle in any extract does not effect SHBG at all. Tongat Ali holds that title now and always has.
Thanks man, but I'm not that investedI have the full text (PDF) to that study if you want to see it.
A lot of people have suggested ingredients such as tongkat ali and ashwagandha. Both of which are in AlphaMax XT and at complete doses.Interested in an over the counter T booster for my dad. Something that won't break the bank. Any suggestions/personal experiences is greatly welcome
Besides just improving testosterone levels, AlphaMax XT will boost libido as well, which may or may not be a problem for your dad.Male subjects in a 12-week trial experienced a 16.77 +/-33.77% increase in total testosterone compared with a 1.08 +/- 18.35% decrease in the placebo group.
True. I lowered my estrogen too much one time and it killed my libido. not good!I disagree I think people are too concerned with estrogen. And most if, not all, otc anti-e barely even effect E. Estrogen is a good thing, heck a great thing, it just needs be in normal range.
I don't "believe in so strongly", it's just that you haven't presented any counter data based on science. The only way to tell if/how it affected your SHBG - would be to run blood tests. These are natural plants - not 1000mg of Test Cypionate that you could "feel". I don't know about you, but I don't feel my Vitamin D or K2 working either. Like the Police say: People make the worst witnesses - same with supplements: people make the worst self-reporting research subjects.If you recall, I have run it solo twice (back when I trusted the studies you believe in so strongly) and it was like taking a sugar pill. Kind of supports the theory of 3-4 divanyl having no bioavailabilty
Just going by Examine.com, Stinging Nettle research beats Long Jack research by 3 studies: 56-53 - Tribulus Terrestris has 101 studies listed, and Fenugreek has 103 - so... And while I personally believe that Long Jack *does* do some cool things in regards to SHBG, Libido, and some other areas - It is sorely lacking in the Testosterone production department - with most of *that* data coming from Tambi with Hypogonadal men, and not in peer reviewed material.On the other hand, Eurycoma longifolia has more studies behind it than probably any other test booster ingredient. None of which have questioned its bioavailabilty, ability to lower SHBG and here is the kicker, it has also been shown to lower cortisol, aromatase/estrogen, and potentially have mild SERM properties.
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