My fat loss is stalling! Abliderate? Eviscerate?

[leafy]

I'm 5'8 and 137 pounds. I don't have enough muscles to even consider this process as a 'cut' but I'd still rather get rid of all the fat despite of looking skeletal and starting bulking from there. I've been on a diet since early this year, so I'd say about 10 months and I don't think I have that much fat left, but the belly fat has been the same for more than 2 months. In terms of looking at the mirror, I haven't noticed any differences other than may be a slightly bigger arms. I still lift 4x a week.

I count calories and macros (500 deficit), but I do have at most 2 cheat meals a week, such as pasta or other noodle stuff like ramen, or fried foods (I weigh these as well unless my cheat meal happens at a restaurant).

I have used only norcodrene and Shift, but even with these, I'm stalling and almost no change has been since in the mirror for at least a month or two . I decided to research deeper into other fatburners and discovered various products like abliderate, eviscerate, (this sounded so appealing as it seems to directly targets SAT), DCP and so on.

Out of all of these fat burners, what would be recommended? I'd like to know a little difference between abliderate and eviscerate.. and each has like 4 or 5 different categories too lol. These look like they're getting a lot of love.

Also a recommendation of supplement prior to cheat meal would be great that would not interfere with Forskolin95 (I really like Shift)..

pheww. so stressful

P.S is cortisol control supplement also helpful? I just don't want my stack to be like 7+ or whatnot

 

[johnnyp]

That looks like it's extra skin and not fat, topical fat burners might be useful for tightening it but you don't need to be concerned about losing more weight.

 

[Misfit28]

That looks like it's extra skin and not fat, topical fat burners might be useful for tightening it but you don't need to be concerned about losing more weight.

This. If anything, you may want to reverse diet and try to focus on building muscle.

 

[cheftepesh1]

This. If anything, you may want to reverse diet and try to focus on building muscle.

This is where I was with the pictures. At 137 I would bulk up now. Add some lean muscle to your body.

 

[paul56778]

Agree with others. Lean muscle on your frame will help with overall appearance plus additional muscle mass will raise your resting metabolic rate which will allow for you to perform any future cuts with more calories than you are currently consuming.

 

[leafy]

This. If anything, you may want to reverse diet and try to focus on building muscle.

Well, once I get my hands on some of these supplements, I was thinking of doing at a surplus or maintanance.. What would you prefer between abliderate and eviscerate? I'm planning to get DCP too.. so I'm looking at either one+ forskolin+DCP.

 

[Misfit28]

Well, once I get my hands on some of these supplements, I was thinking of doing at a surplus or maintanance.. What would you prefer between abliderate and eviscerate? I'm planning to get DCP too.. so I'm looking at either one+ forskolin+DCP.

This is what I would advise:

Slowly add calories and lift heavy. Once you gain more muscle mass, you'll be better able to gauge what you're working with. You don't need any fat burners, topical or otherwise, at this point.

 

[Misfit28]

That looks like it's extra skin and not fat, topical fat burners might be useful for tightening it but you don't need to be concerned about losing more weight.

I also agree with this. Loose skin can be a problem psychologically, at least it is for me. Focus on building muscle and I think you'll be happier with how your body looks.

 

[leafy]

I also agree with this. Loose skin can be a problem psychologically, at least it is for me. Focus on building muscle and I think you'll be happier with how your body looks.

When you say building muscles, do you mean to eat at a surplus? I'd say I spend abour 4 hours a week on lifting 4x upper/lower. Considering the time spent, I do much more lifting than cardio. It's just that I've been eating at a deficit. But anyways, I was always hesitant to start bulking now because I thought I'd much prefer to bulk when I'm close to 10%-11% BF (even if I will look like a skeleton) hence seeing the gradual change/result of my body which would then also make me motivated to continue and continue, whereas if I bulk now, I'd be gaining fat while I still have that chunk of fat on my belly. It's actually fat although it has some loose skins, but quite fatty lol.

 

[Misfit28]

You don't have to go crazy with the calories. As I said, you might want to look up reverse dieting. You would gradually add calories over time.

Even a small surplus would build muscle. Yes, you may gain some fat as well but you can minimize fat gain by being smart about your caloric intake.

 

[gagandugan]

I feel you man, since I used to weigh only 130lbs @ 170cm (5' 6.5"). Interestingly enough, I was small, but I did not look like a skeleton. I looked like a regular small guy, but with a "bicycle tire" around my waist. It was pretty bad. I did not want to cut to 10% BF - it would make my face look gaunt, and all my clothes (it was size "S" back then) would be too loose. Additionally, people would start wondering if I got really sick or something. It's not a good look when you are that light, trust me.

What you need to do now is bulk, but try to clean bulk as much as possible. Get to around 165lbs, maybe 170 at your height. You can do this by eating good food and drinking, say, two protein shakes a day - and here comes the important part! - do a full body workout 3X/week. Forget about doing too many isolation movements. You need to squat, deadlift or rack pull, bench press, shoulder press and barbell row, and do pullups if possible. Find a good program (I like Greyskull LP, but there are many others) and stick with it. You will be surprised to see that you will be able to gain muscle mass and lose fat at the same time. And if you do add some fat, no worries. Once you get to 165-170, cut, but be smart about it. Go down from 170 to low 150's and you will look significantly bigger with your 4-pack clearly showing. I'm speaking from experience here. I just now completed a cut, went from 166 to 150 @ around 10% BF, and my body looks completely transformed. So, don't go "skeletal", just bulk, get some muscle on that frame (because right now you have no real muscle mass to speak of, no disrespect; that will change), and then cut until you are satisfied with your level of leanness. Hope that makes sense.

 

[Misfit28]

I feel you man, since I used to weigh only 130lbs @ 170cm (5' 6.5"). Interestingly enough, I was small, but I did not look like a skeleton. I looked like a regular small guy, but with a "bicycle tire" around my waist. It was pretty bad. I did not want to cut to 10% BF - it would make my face look gaunt, and all my clothes (it was size "S" back then) would be too loose. Additionally, people would start wondering if I got really sick or something. It's not a good look when you are that light, trust me.

What you need to do now is bulk, but try to clean bulk as much as possible. Get to around 165lbs, maybe 170 at your height. You can do this by eating good food and drinking, say, two protein shakes a day - and here comes the important part! - do a full body workout 3X/week. Forget about doing too many isolation movements. You need to squat, deadlift or rack pull, bench press, shoulder press and barbell row, and do pullups if possible. Find a good program (I like Greyskull LP, but there are many others) and stick with it. You will be surprised to see that you will be able to gain muscle mass and lose fat at the same time. And if you do add some fat, no worries. Once you get to 165-170, cut, but be smart about it. Go down from 170 to low 150's and you will look significantly bigger with your 4-pack clearly showing. I'm speaking from experience here. I just now completed a cut, went from 166 to 150 @ around 10% BF, and my body looks completely transformed. So, don't go "skeletal", just bulk, get some muscle on that frame (because right now you have no real muscle mass to speak of, no disrespect; that will change), and then cut until you are satisfied with your level of leanness. Hope that makes sense.

Absolutely! Not to mention that more muscle makes it easier to cut.

 

[HIT4ME]

Forget the fat burners. Slow bulk/recomp. What does your diet and training look like exactly? Evomuse BMP may be a better option than DCP (I think DCP is the best fat burner out there right now), or Follidrone 2.0 (just going by reviews).

 

[Bodybeast]

Bulk the ****kk up. Put on 50lbs of muscle and you'll have 10lbs more of fat if you do it clean. You will have a 6 pack. Stop doing cardio so much, increase your protein to minimum of 150-175 g a day. You cut more you'll look like a twig and not +aesthetic+. Put the money you'd spend to good food and maybe a mass gainer and put on muscle otherwise you'll cut down to 10% and it'll be impossible to maintain that without the increase of metabolic rate from having more muscle. Also lift more and lift heavy and your test levels will also help with your physique.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

How much did you weigh at your heaviest, and how long did you weigh that much? Welcome to the "Used to be wicked fat, but now I'm not, but my lower abs and back still are" club. Oh, and loose skin sucks too - no supp will fix it - including topicals. Like the other's said, I'd give your body a break and reverse (although guys like Helms and Hennsleman think reversing is just extending the cut, but Norton loves it) back to maint. or slight surplus and add mass. Then cut again.

 

[leafy]

Forget the fat burners. Slow bulk/recomp. What does your diet and training look like exactly? Evomuse BMP may be a better option than DCP (I think DCP is the best fat burner out there right now), or Follidrone 2.0 (just going by reviews).

4x upper/lower +1 hour of cardio a day except Sunday. Current diet:

200g brown rice + 100g chicken breast + bunch of veggies 3x a day
protein shake post workout
10 or so almonds between meals

Do you think DCP will help during recomp as well?

 

[leafy]

How much did you weigh at your heaviest, and how long did you weigh that much? Welcome to the "Used to be wicked fat, but now I'm not, but my lower abs and back still are" club. Oh, and loose skin sucks too - no supp will fix it - including topicals. Like the other's said, I'd give your body a break and reverse (although guys like Helms and Hennsleman think reversing is just extending the cut, but Norton loves it) back to maint. or slight surplus and add mass. Then cut again.

I was fat all my life, my peak was 235lb last year around July. Lol I definitely fit into that club.

Got myself to research a bit into reverse diet, and if I read correctly, it's slowly bringing calories up to the maintenance level and not necessarily going surplus?

As many of you guys mentioned, I would love to clean bulk or recomp at maintenance but with minimal fat gains, and I guess this is really why I was looking into supps, to prevent fat gains as much as possible. I heard DCP was one of it.

 

[HIT4ME]

Ok, so here are my thoughts. You have made an amazing change. I mean, 100 pounds is a tough challenge to overcome ..You should be proud. The thing I learned was that I was 290+ and I barely directed at all and lost 40 pounds. Then I got my diet in check and got down to about 180. Seemed every time I would hit 180 I couldn't go any lower. My diet would no longer work.

Then I calculated my BMR and realized that without activity I only burn about 1700 calories a day at my new weight. When I was 290, eating what I was eating at 180 was a HUGE deficit and the weight melted off. At 180, the deficit was way smaller than I had thought before doing the new calculations. It just simply takes more energy to move 290 pounds than 180, regardless of if it is fat or muscle.

Then I got a Fitbit and realized that when I have a work day, if I don't dedicate time to a workout, my workday TDEE will often be under 2200 cals, I just do a lot of sitting between being behind a desk and driving all over. So my activity levels were way below what I thought. So instead of burning 2700 calories a day, I was burning 2200 and instead of a 1000 calorie deficit, it was 500.

It is hard to say to lose more because you aren't carrying a lot of muscle. I don't mean this as any insult, you just lost over 100 pounds and I think that is phenomenal. Going back to maintenance and focusing on getting some beef just may be a healthy idea. On the other hand, it is hard to say how you feel and what is healthy or not. If you feel you have fat to lose and that a recompile will be counter productive, you have to make the call.

Based on your diet, and a BMR calculator which says your BMR is 1500 or so calories your deficit may be around 500 calories, which is actually easy to wipe out with a couple of off-diet slip ups or cheats. How active are you really when you are not working out?

Sounds like you are doing a lot of work for workouts. Have you taken any breaks?

 

[Ray Donovan]

Bulk now, bro. It's bulking season. You're ready for a good solid bulk.

 

[Ray Donovan]

However if you're set on supplements for the fat I'd look into Evomuse Supernova.

 

[leafy]

Ok, so here are my thoughts. You have made an amazing change. I mean, 100 pounds is a tough challenge to overcome ..You should be proud. The thing I learned was that I was 290+ and I barely directed at all and lost 40 pounds. Then I got my diet in check and got down to about 180. Seemed every time I would hit 180 I couldn't go any lower. My diet would no longer work.

Then I calculated my BMR and realized that without activity I only burn about 1700 calories a day at my new weight. When I was 290, eating what I was eating at 180 was a HUGE deficit and the weight melted off. At 180, the deficit was way smaller than I had thought before doing the new calculations. It just simply takes more energy to move 290 pounds than 180, regardless of if it is fat or muscle.

Then I got a Fitbit and realized that when I have a work day, if I don't dedicate time to a workout, my workday TDEE will often be under 2200 cals, I just do a lot of sitting between being behind a desk and driving all over. So my activity levels were way below what I thought. So instead of burning 2700 calories a day, I was burning 2200 and instead of a 1000 calorie deficit, it was 500.

It is hard to say to lose more because you aren't carrying a lot of muscle. I don't mean this as any insult, you just lost over 100 pounds and I think that is phenomenal. Going back to maintenance and focusing on getting some beef just may be a healthy idea. On the other hand, it is hard to say how you feel and what is healthy or not. If you feel you have fat to lose and that a recompile will be counter productive, you have to make the call.

Based on your diet, and a BMR calculator which says your BMR is 1500 or so calories your deficit may be around 500 calories, which is actually easy to wipe out with a couple of off-diet slip ups or cheats. How active are you really when you are not working out?

Sounds like you are doing a lot of work for workouts. Have you taken any breaks?

First of all, thank you for your kind words on my success! For some reason I seem to be the one who feels least proud.. My parents are amazed as of today.
I was actually also aware of my TDEE being much lower than ever before. My profession is music producing so I'm very sedentary. Without Cardio, my 500 deficit could only happen at eating 1500kcal and it leaves me hungry a 'little bit', that's why I do an hour of cardio a day and eat 1800kcal and therefore maintained about 700cal deficit (ok now I realize it's 700 not 500 deficit). The day I don't workout and I barely move much, my TDEE is like 1800. With lifts+cardio, I expect my TDEE to be close to 2500

This is how my personal viewpoint is about dieting vs. bulking at this point.. so please take it with a grain of salt.
Bulking is a long process hence it would take me months and months or even a year to do so before I get into a cutting phase. By then, I have more muscles and fat, but at the same time I have to worry more about muscle loss during my cut. And I will look fatter for at least a year.
Cutting on the other hand , in my case, could be done in perhaps less than 2 months to get to 10-11% (I'm not too sure what BF I'm at but I'm gonna assume not too high) I'd look like a skeleton, but I could lean bulk for at least a year without any problem of worrying about looking fat, and I would be able to see the progress week by week, or month by month which the motivation from it would be just unimaginable. And at this point, losing muscle is not even a problem since I basically have none. That's why I was looking into supplements to quickly shred the fat so I can start bulking ASAP.

With 500 deficit, it indeed may be easy to screw up the entire week's hard work. I tend to do intermittent fasting on the day I plan on cheating. And they aren't always big. But I do crave buffet sometimes TBH.

I see many of you generous people suggesting me to bulk, but at least this is how I personally feel. Very grateful to see all these suggestive posts though

 

[josun]

First of all, thank you for your kind words on my success! For some reason I seem to be the one who feels least proud.. My parents are amazed as of today.
I was actually also aware of my TDEE being much lower than ever before. My profession is music producing so I'm very sedentary. Without Cardio, my 500 deficit could only happen at eating 1500kcal and it leaves me hungry a 'little bit', that's why I do an hour of cardio a day and eat 1800kcal and therefore maintained about 700cal deficit (ok now I realize it's 700 not 500 deficit). The day I don't workout and I barely move much, my TDEE is like 1800. With lifts+cardio, I expect my TDEE to be close to 2500

This is how my personal viewpoint is about dieting vs. bulking at this point.. so please take it with a grain of salt.
Bulking is a long process hence it would take me months and months or even a year to do so before I get into a cutting phase. By then, I have more muscles and fat, but at the same time I have to worry more about muscle loss during my cut. And I will look fatter for at least a year.
Cutting on the other hand , in my case, could be done in perhaps less than 2 months to get to 10-11% (I'm not too sure what BF I'm at but I'm gonna assume not too high) I'd look like a skeleton, but I could lean bulk for at least a year without any problem of worrying about looking fat, and I would be able to see the progress week by week, or month by month which the motivation from it would be just unimaginable. And at this point, losing muscle is not even a problem since I basically have none. That's why I was looking into supplements to quickly shred the fat so I can start bulking ASAP.

With 500 deficit, it indeed may be easy to screw up the entire week's hard work. I tend to do intermittent fasting on the day I plan on cheating. And they aren't always big. But I do crave buffet sometimes TBH.

I see many of you generous people suggesting me to bulk, but at least this is how I personally feel. Very grateful to see all these suggestive posts though

But as soon as u start bulking ur just gonna gain the fat again

 

[paul56778]

First of all, thank you for your kind words on my success! For some reason I seem to be the one who feels least proud.. My parents are amazed as of today.
I was actually also aware of my TDEE being much lower than ever before. My profession is music producing so I'm very sedentary. Without Cardio, my 500 deficit could only happen at eating 1500kcal and it leaves me hungry a 'little bit', that's why I do an hour of cardio a day and eat 1800kcal and therefore maintained about 700cal deficit (ok now I realize it's 700 not 500 deficit). The day I don't workout and I barely move much, my TDEE is like 1800. With lifts+cardio, I expect my TDEE to be close to 2500

This is how my personal viewpoint is about dieting vs. bulking at this point.. so please take it with a grain of salt.
Bulking is a long process hence it would take me months and months or even a year to do so before I get into a cutting phase. By then, I have more muscles and fat, but at the same time I have to worry more about muscle loss during my cut. And I will look fatter for at least a year.
Cutting on the other hand , in my case, could be done in perhaps less than 2 months to get to 10-11% (I'm not too sure what BF I'm at but I'm gonna assume not too high) I'd look like a skeleton, but I could lean bulk for at least a year without any problem of worrying about looking fat, and I would be able to see the progress week by week, or month by month which the motivation from it would be just unimaginable. And at this point, losing muscle is not even a problem since I basically have none. That's why I was looking into supplements to quickly shred the fat so I can start bulking ASAP.

With 500 deficit, it indeed may be easy to screw up the entire week's hard work. I tend to do intermittent fasting on the day I plan on cheating. And they aren't always big. But I do crave buffet sometimes TBH.

I see many of you generous people suggesting me to bulk, but at least this is how I personally feel. Very grateful to see all these suggestive posts though

This is just an example of what other members are on about in terms of being skinny and why most of us have been recommending you add more lean body-mass.

Invalid Link Removed

well done on your current massive loss in fat btw,

remember body fat % is just a ratio of fat to muscle e.g. 10 % @ 200lbs would be 180lbs lean mass and 20lbs of fat, but this story changes when you are 137lbs, if you were currently at 10-11% you would have 13.7lbs of fat which is lower than someone heavier being leaner.

 

[leafy]

This is just an example of what other members are on about in terms of being skinny and why most of us have been recommending you add more lean body-mass.

Invalid Link Removed

well done on your current massive loss in fat btw,

remember body fat % is just a ratio of fat to muscle e.g. 10 % @ 200lbs would be 180lbs lean mass and 20lbs of fat, but this story changes when you are 137lbs, if you were currently at 10-11% you would have 13.7lbs of fat which is lower than someone heavier being leaner.

Thanks for the grats!

True that I'd look better with more muscles along with more fat, but I'm worried if my fat gain ratio to muscle gain would suffer from more towards fat.

For example, if I'm 137lb with 20lb of fat (14.5%) and bulk at 250kcal surplus, I'd gain a little over 2 pounds of fat in 1 month. Even if I gained 2lb of muscles alongside, I'd be at 141lb with 22lb of fat which would be 15.6%. And I don't want my BF to be over 15%, which I would most likely be over that if I started bulking now. That's where I felt the desire to lose more fat hence I can bulk long without looking fatty (bulking up from 10% to 15% would be much more satisfying for me than say, 15% to 20% ). And I'd feel like there would be a risk of getting facial fat if I go over 15%.

Since it is what people call 'bulking season' before spring hits, I want to do that too, that's why I feel so desperate to shred these last pounds. I mean, I feel desperate to start bulking as much as getting these last few pounds of fat off of me.

Please let me know

And speaking of bodyfat, what % would you say I'm at?

 

[machinehead]

Good job so far!

It looks like you are doing lower intensity cardio. If possible, add some high-intensity work, even if only 3 sprints twice a week and don't change anything else yet. That would increase both partitioning and metabolism and initially you'd gain muscle while losing fat, even if it is the intramuscular kind. Bulking now would only work to your liking if you made substantial gains in strength and stayed at less than 200 calories above maintenance and did HIIT on top of all that.

 

[MidwestBeast]

Just want to echo my sentiments, OP, and say congratulations on a huge accomplishment. It is really awesome what you've done and I'm proud of you (even though I don't know you). I would agree with others here that I think slowly reverse dieting back up to at least maintenance at a bare minimum will make you happy. You'll feel satisfied from the additional (slowly added back in) calories and your body will definitely be prone to putting them toward new muscle assuming you keep the workouts on point.

You don't need any supplements to make this plan effective. I want that to be loud and clear. However, as someone with a ton of body image issues and mental hurdles that I've dealt with for years now (being chubby in jr. high, then lean and strong, then a jacked up pituitary leading me to 300 lbs, and now back down to ~220), I'll suggest options if you're set on adding something in. They can be helpful, but they're not necessary; but they can sometimes help more mentally/emotionally than anything else (e.g. not feeling like I'm losing the work I put in even though scientifically/logically I know it's not happening that way).

For my largest meals, I use Defuse. I try to use it sparingly so it's not a crutch or a bandaid to an eating disorder, but it's very helpful around the holidays in particular, but also for the one or two times a month I do allow myself to indulge more than normal. My preferred protocol is adding that to Slintensity, Na-R-ALA, and agmatine. Those 3 alone (or in combination) can be helpful before larger carb meals (I mention this since you talked about pasta). So if you're having a day where you're going to eat a lot of carbs in a sitting, but you're still planning on ball-parking around your daily calorie goal (even if it's over; but it's not absurd), this can be helpful (and again, mentally can help me feel comfortable with my decisions, too).

(Eviscerate) SuperNova was mentioned earlier. I'm currently on Day 4 of getting to use it, so it's too early to say much, but if it works like the ingredients do in their other forms, it's quite helpful. And IIRC, Matt ( dsade ) is working on a version of skin-tightening SuperNova -- which may be exactly what you would be looking for at some point.

I want to reiterate, this is not a sales pitch or a suggestion to load up on supplements. But I know as someone with an addictive personality and body image issues, it would be difficult for me to just go cold turkey and using some supplements is helpful to how I stay positive on a daily basis while following my plans and not letting the scale or a bad mirror day make me completely lose it and spiral out of control (been there way too many times before).

Again, congratulations on all your hard work. Happy to have you around as part of this community.

 

[HIT4ME]

I am reading your personal feelings and changing my stance, because I am in a similar boat and reaching goals is important. Finish your cut. Are you using ephedrine? Yohimbine? I us Alpha-Y before my cardio and I cannot tolerate regular Y.

Visually I would guess you are right around 15% ...maybe 17% ? Others may have a better idea.

What does your push/pull routine look like? Are you progressing at all with heavier weights?

You may want to start a log. Giving more details may help us give better feedback.

I know you mentioned being hungry, but dropping 200 cals/day from your diet and keeping protein high may be one possible avenue. Alternating normal/low calorie days may be another option ...one day like you are now, one day 500 cals less.

If you have the energy to swap a little cardio for HIIT it may also help (as mentioned above), but in a long deficit, that intensity can be hard to muster.

Finally, you have less than 10 pounds to lose I would say. But you are very thin. You are going to have to find a way to pack on some meat, and that will mean eating. Your math on the 250 calories per day is off too. That's 7500 calories or about 2.15 pounds of fat. Those calories can't go to both fat AND muscle...meaning you can't use them twice. If you put on 2 pounds of muscle with 7500 calories, it is likely that less than 1 pound of fat will come with it.

At any rate, the healthy range for a 5'8'' male is considered to be 125-160 pounds. You are getting close to the bottom of that range.

In my experience, people who take off more than 50 pounds usually have a STRONG reason why they are doing it. Do you mind if I ask why did you lose 100 pounds? What caused you to make the decision, what did you think about when things seemed to be failing that kept you going? Most people just quit. You didn't. Why is that?

 

[leafy]

Just want to echo my sentiments, OP, and say congratulations on a huge accomplishment. It is really awesome what you've done and I'm proud of you (even though I don't know you). I would agree with others here that I think slowly reverse dieting back up to at least maintenance at a bare minimum will make you happy. You'll feel satisfied from the additional (slowly added back in) calories and your body will definitely be prone to putting them toward new muscle assuming you keep the workouts on point.

You don't need any supplements to make this plan effective. I want that to be loud and clear. However, as someone with a ton of body image issues and mental hurdles that I've dealt with for years now (being chubby in jr. high, then lean and strong, then a jacked up pituitary leading me to 300 lbs, and now back down to ~220), I'll suggest options if you're set on adding something in. They can be helpful, but they're not necessary; but they can sometimes help more mentally/emotionally than anything else (e.g. not feeling like I'm losing the work I put in even though scientifically/logically I know it's not happening that way).

For my largest meals, I use Defuse. I try to use it sparingly so it's not a crutch or a bandaid to an eating disorder, but it's very helpful around the holidays in particular, but also for the one or two times a month I do allow myself to indulge more than normal. My preferred protocol is adding that to Slintensity, Na-R-ALA, and agmatine. Those 3 alone (or in combination) can be helpful before larger carb meals (I mention this since you talked about pasta). So if you're having a day where you're going to eat a lot of carbs in a sitting, but you're still planning on ball-parking around your daily calorie goal (even if it's over; but it's not absurd), this can be helpful (and again, mentally can help me feel comfortable with my decisions, too).

(Eviscerate) SuperNova was mentioned earlier. I'm currently on Day 4 of getting to use it, so it's too early to say much, but if it works like the ingredients do in their other forms, it's quite helpful. And IIRC, Matt ( dsade ) is working on a version of skin-tightening SuperNova -- which may be exactly what you would be looking for at some point.

I want to reiterate, this is not a sales pitch or a suggestion to load up on supplements. But I know as someone with an addictive personality and body image issues, it would be difficult for me to just go cold turkey and using some supplements is helpful to how I stay positive on a daily basis while following my plans and not letting the scale or a bad mirror day make me completely lose it and spiral out of control (been there way too many times before).

Again, congratulations on all your hard work. Happy to have you around as part of this community.

Thanks for the cheers and warm welcome!

I've heard of the reverse diet before and that's what I'm definitely gonna do when I'm ready to bulk. I'm still very worried about the issues that I mentioend above.

About the supplements- What is supernova? I heard about eviscerate smolder(think that's what it was) and that's it. So would it be helpful in whichever direction I go in terms of staying in deficit vs. surplus?

 

[MidwestBeast]

About the supplements- What is supernova? I heard about eviscerate smolder(think that's what it was) and that's it. So would it be helpful in whichever direction I go in terms of staying in deficit vs. surplus?

SuperNova is the newest creation in the topical line. Matt actually took the concepts from both Abliderate (VAT) and Eviscerate (SAT) and additionally BRITE (the browning of white fat cells) and rolled them into a new topical. So it's really new. I got it on Saturday and have been using since then so I can't say much, yet.

But other than this, the topical fat burning line up looks like:

Eviscerate Burn Free
Eviscerate Smolder
Eviscerate
Eviscerate +

All of those are effective at burning SAT, but range in the amount of heat from the cap. content in there from nothing at all (Burn Free) to fire (+).

And then for your VAT side, we've had:

Abliderate Advanced
Absolutely Abliderated

The only difference you're looking at there is the Absolutely has more actives crammed into it; so you could achieve the same effect from just using more of the Advanced.




But SuperNova is a new take by adding both of those into one product in addition to our oral fat-loss product, BRITE (which has been served as an oral liquid but will eventually be offered as gel caps). Matt researched for a long time and wasn't sure it would work as a topical, but found reason to believe it will. So you're looking at 3 completely different angles for fat loss at that local, topical application site. Pretty cool stuff. I'm hoping to have more definitive feedback to offer over the next few weeks.

 

[leafy]

I am reading your personal feelings and changing my stance, because I am in a similar boat and reaching goals is important. Finish your cut. Are you using ephedrine? Yohimbine? I us Alpha-Y before my cardio and I cannot tolerate regular Y.

Visually I would guess you are right around 15% ...maybe 17% ? Others may have a better idea.

What does your push/pull routine look like? Are you progressing at all with heavier weights?

You may want to start a log. Giving more details may help us give better feedback.

I know you mentioned being hungry, but dropping 200 cals/day from your diet and keeping protein high may be one possible avenue. Alternating normal/low calorie days may be another option ...one day like you are now, one day 500 cals less.

If you have the energy to swap a little cardio for HIIT it may also help (as mentioned above), but in a long deficit, that intensity can be hard to muster.

Finally, you have less than 10 pounds to lose I would say. But you are very thin. You are going to have to find a way to pack on some meat, and that will mean eating. Your math on the 250 calories per day is off too. That's 7500 calories or about 2.15 pounds of fat. Those calories can't go to both fat AND muscle...meaning you can't use them twice. If you put on 2 pounds of muscle with 7500 calories, it is likely that less than 1 pound of fat will come with it.

At any rate, the healthy range for a 5'8'' male is considered to be 125-160 pounds. You are getting close to the bottom of that range.

In my experience, people who take off more than 50 pounds usually have a STRONG reason why they are doing it. Do you mind if I ask why did you lose 100 pounds? What caused you to make the decision, what did you think about when things seemed to be failing that kept you going? Most people just quit. You didn't. Why is that?

I'm not too sure about which yohimbine, but the only stim product I'm using now is norcodrene as well as shift. I'm almost done with both, and my progress has been stalling so I wanted to try the eviscerate ones (randomly searched through the site and came to it).

With a higher TDEE due to cardio, I actually don't feel hungry at all at 1800 calories. I'd think that adding almonds really helped with hunger problems. I, for some reason, feel like doing an hour of cardio a day regardless of how much deficit I'm in. That way I feel a little less guilty about my cheat meals. Kind of feels like an insurance. At least I don't feel starving at 1800 calories. I tried doing HIIT and it's just too easy to cheat myself. Like sometimes I'd know that I'm not going 100% effort. I feel better controlled doing LISS. machinehead mentioned though about partitioning. Not sure what it is as I've never heard of it. I'm only aware of simple math of overall calorie deficit/surplus and macro splits. I do stationary bike, but I still make it to a decent resistant level so I'm still sweating like hell and could barely talk if someone tried to have a conversation.

My routine has been 3x a week with compound lifts, then moved to upper/lower. Now I'm doing chest/triceps, back/biceps and legs/shoulders. I started this routine last week.
I started my very first lifting from taking personal training for 3 months. And at my last session, the trainer gave me all these routines for compound lifts, upper/lower, and this 3-split. So I'm now a gymgoer 6 days a week. I first started lifting March this year. I think I definitely feel more pumps with 3day split routine and recovery has been no problem. I'm not smart about well-known routines. Before, I just kinda trusted what the trainer gave me cuz I have no clue about routines.
For weights, I do squats 220lb x 12 (definitely can add more weights, but never tried over 220), conventional deadlift 260lb x 1 (almost max), bench press 130lb x 12 (same case as squat, didn't measure max).

So, my weight loss anecdote. As I said, I've been fat almost all my life, since 13. I've tried diets many times in high school and all failed. My parents always insisted me to lose weight, and nothing moved me to do so. What motivated me was really when I heard about the high school friends reunion last year. We all decided to gather during Winter Break to chill, and I just felt like I wanted to show them a change, and that's really it. I can't specifically recall why I continued to diet after the reunion, but clean eating at that point became a everyday diet and I started enjoying working out. IIRC, I had no cheat meals at all back then. I was very less liberal than ever before. I started to add in cheat meals when I started lifting this March. I was 156lb back then and I stopped doing cardio for awhile. I also stopped counting calories and just ate well three times a day. It wasn't until when I hit 145lb and noticed that I'm still carrying a lot of fat. Then I counted macros and calories again. And here I am at 137lb. I've been at this weight for good 2 months almost, no longer seeing a progress of fat loss. Never tried to rely heavily on supplements but this stall for 2 months really got me into thinking of them. Hence I happened to find out about eviscerate, abliderate and DCP.

That's really it!

P.S Wowz.. I was somewhat expecting my BF to be around 15% but 17% may be a shocker if it's true!

 

[Misfit28]

If you just want to continue to cut, I would advise you lifting 3 times a week with compound movements (heavy weights, low reps). While cutting, you won't be building any muscle, so your focus should be on maintaining strength and preserving as much lean mass as possible.

IMO, LISS is a waste of time. The calorie burn is quite inconsequential as well, IMO.

 

[paul56778]

SuperNova is the newest creation in the topical line. Matt actually took the concepts from both Abliderate (VAT) and Eviscerate (SAT) and additionally BRITE (the browning of white fat cells) and rolled them into a new topical. So it's really new. I got it on Saturday and have been using since then so I can't say much, yet.

But other than this, the topical fat burning line up looks like:

Eviscerate Burn Free
Eviscerate Smolder
Eviscerate
Eviscerate +

All of those are effective at burning SAT, but range in the amount of heat from the cap. content in there from nothing at all (Burn Free) to fire (+).

And then for your VAT side, we've had:

Abliderate Advanced
Absolutely Abliderated

The only difference you're looking at there is the Absolutely has more actives crammed into it; so you could achieve the same effect from just using more of the Advanced.




But SuperNova is a new take by adding both of those into one product in addition to our oral fat-loss product, BRITE (which has been served as an oral liquid but will eventually be offered as gel caps). Matt researched for a long time and wasn't sure it would work as a topical, but found reason to believe it will. So you're looking at 3 completely different angles for fat loss at that local, topical application site. Pretty cool stuff. I'm hoping to have more definitive feedback to offer over the next few weeks.

Would you get away with Supernova only e.g. to target fat burning in similar way BRITE does or would it be best to run the two together, e.g. topical Supernova and Oral BRITE, just asking, because if Supernova works on same pathways i would rather invest more money into more bottles of Supernova and run it for longer than using a combination of the two products and maybe run BRITE standalone further down the line, also i am currently using Hydroxyelite as my stimulant based fat burner and Exotherm and DCP as the non stim options and Eviscerate OG version on abs once a day in the AM so it does not interfere with sleep.

 

[MidwestBeast]

Would you get away with Supernova only e.g. to target fat burning in similar way BRITE does or would it be best to run the two together, e.g. topical Supernova and Oral BRITE, just asking, because if Supernova works on same pathways i would rather invest more money into more bottles of Supernova and run it for longer than using a combination of the two products and maybe run BRITE standalone further down the line, also i am currently using Hydroxyelite as my stimulant based fat burner and Exotherm and DCP as the non stim options and Eviscerate OG version on abs once a day in the AM so it does not interfere with sleep.

Matt ( dsade ) would probably have a much better answer for this, but my thought/understanding would be that the SuperNova will act at the site of application. So as long as you're applying it where you want that browning effect, then I'd invest more there. However, the oral ingestion should systemically impact that vs. just the location of application of SN.

So for me, I haven't had BRITE in a few months now, but when I have the chance to get it back, I plan to add it back in to have the impacts of it everywhere and not just around my midsection (I'm only applying SN to my obliques/lower back/abdominal area at the moment).

But that's just my conjecture. Assuming you're not someone with fatty issues elsewhere or those where you intend to apply locally anyway, I'd probably just opt for that assuming this ends up working as well as BRITE (I can comment on that more because I ran like 8 bottles of it vs. the 5 days of SN I've used).

 

[Rand0m]

I think paul56778 hit the nail on the head with the bodyfat/muscle comparison. You're bodyfat may only be higher because you don't have much lean mass, but you don't have that much fat overall. The % isn't really the important part, it's how you look. I'm guessing you want abs before you bulk? Everyone here made good suggestions on how to take your cut further. Some further fat loss is definitely possible but personally I think you should try transitioning into a lean gain. Don't get too obsessed over reaching a hypothetical level of leanness when that isn't your end goal in the first place. Don't be scared of gaining excess fat at +250cal because you won't as long as you keep it consistent and slow and progress in your training. I'm guessing you have never bulked before with proper training so you still have a ton of newbie gains to be had. You will be surprised how much you can grow even in a slight surplus and as long as you keep the gains slow and steady it will be mostly muscle. You may very well experience some recomposition in this period too and lose some fat.

This is all speaking from experience. After losing roughly 50lbs I was in a similar situation as you and spun my wheels for years trying to get shredded before trying to put on muscle. Some people can certainly do it but I wasn't one of them. It got too draining physically and mentally. When I finally decided to bulk that's when everything changed. I put on 20lbs then cut down 20lbs over the course of a year. To be honest, at the peak of my bulk I didn't look much fatter in the midsection but I filled out everywhere else. I ended the diet at the same weight as where I started but looked completely different. I wasn't "shredded" by any means but had full visible abs compared to where I started (my stomach looked like yours). Now when I look back I wish I could tell myself from the beginning to bulk sooner and even longer. Dieting was infinitely easier with some added lean mass. Simply put, the more muscle you gain the better you will look and the leaner you can get. But that just takes time. My 2cents