FDA NDI Draft Guidance Document: PP Article

ma70 said:
Well, we'll see how everything plays out. I guess the Kratom community is much bigger/stronger than the general bodybuilding community cause their petitions got 135k+ easily.
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And the kratom community seem to care more. I shared this link on my Facebook page ( and I have a ton of meathead friends) not one comment or like. I don't get it. This is a huge issue.
 
I've brought this up with some people after finding out about it and the general response is that "it will never happen" so there is little care. And this is amongst people that take supplements religiously.
 
When and if they can no longer get the supps they want it will be those people who yell the loudest.
 
kisaj said:
I've brought this up with some people after finding out about it and the general response is that "it will never happen" so there is little care. And this is amongst people that take supplements religiously.
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This does seem to be true. Unfortunately, people are often overly trusting and/or apathetic until it's too late. I wonder why big stores like GNC and VS aren't making a bigger deal about this. Surely it would really hurt them, no? You'd almost think that they'd hand out little pamphlets or brochures and have a mention of the petition on their website; the majority of supplement users don't frequent the forums or sites like priceplow. Maybe I'll go in and talk to the manager of one of the VS stores I used to work at, see if he's even aware of this, and maybe he can pass it on to someone above his head, although I'm sure the higher-ups have to be aware of this, no?
 
Personally, I think it's partially because it's far too long, apparently not written well, and from one person I know that owns several Fit Republics around here who claims to have read it all, will never be accepted in the form it's in. So combine it all and the fact that there is no promotion of it anywhere and it's easy to see why people don't care, IMO. They'll see the cliffs and say, "meh, not worth my time"
 
kisaj said:
I've brought this up with some people after finding out about it and the general response is that "it will never happen" so there is little care. And this is amongst people that take supplements religiously.
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Not sure why people are saying that... because it is happening. That attitude is how you wake up with a ban.
 
kisaj said:
I've brought this up with some people after finding out about it and the general response is that "it will never happen" so there is little care. And this is amongst people that take supplements religiously.
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Not sure why people are saying that... because it is happening. That attitude is how you wake up with a ban.
 
So if the Kratom industry wins their fight against the FDA, this would essentially make it illegal anyway.
 
Ape McGrapes said:
So if the Kratom industry wins their fight against the FDA, this would essentially make it illegal anyway.
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Not at all. It'll just stop the fda from scheduling kratom. They aren't discussing scheduling supplements, they are discussing making them illegal for sale. Very different thing. The FDA could still go after kratom for use in supplements through this measure but buying bulk kratom or "research" kratom would still be legal.
 
enraged_chris said:
Not at all. It'll just stop the fda from scheduling kratom. They aren't discussing scheduling supplements, they are discussing making them illegal for sale. Very different thing. The FDA could still go after kratom for use in supplements through this measure but buying bulk kratom or "research" kratom would still be legal.
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Wouldn't this make Kratom illegal since no NDI was ever filed and it wasn't marketed before 94?

EDIT: Reread your post, and agree with the research loophole, but I'd expect some FDA raides from that. "Not for human consumption" isn't really an invincible cloak, let alone much of a safety net.
 
enraged_chris said:
Not at all. It'll just stop the fda from scheduling kratom. They aren't discussing scheduling supplements, they are discussing making them illegal for sale. Very different thing. The FDA could still go after kratom for use in supplements through this measure but buying bulk kratom or "research" kratom would still be legal.
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The FDA isn't scheduling Kratom, the DEA is. You can't sell schedule 1 drugs as research ingredients and expect to get away with it, or fly under the radar very long. Do you see online companies trying to sell heroin as a research compound given it's schedule 1 listing?

Most anabolics are schedule 3
 
Jiigzz said:
The FDA isn't scheduling Kratom, the DEA is. You can't sell schedule 1 drugs as research ingredients and expect to get away with it, or fly under the radar very long. Do you see online companies trying to sell heroin as a research compound given it's schedule 1 listing?

Most anabolics are schedule 3
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Same difference, but this is if the Kratom Industry wins and the DEA doesn't schedule it. hypothetically speaking of course.
 
Ape McGrapes said:
Same difference, but this is if the Kratom Industry wins and the DEA doesn't schedule it. hypothetically speaking of course.
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Apparantly a spokes person for the DEA has said it will schedule 1 it, until they can appropriately judge its use and safety etc. and then move to reclassify it if need be.

Could be promising for a potential revive in a couple of years time if more research comes to light: Invalid Link Removed
 
Jiigzz said:
Apparantly a spokes person for the DEA has said it will schedule 1 it, until they can appropriately judge its use and safety etc. and then move to reclassify it if need be.

Could be promising for a potential revive in a couple of years time if more research comes to light: Invalid Link Removed
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I'm sure by the time there will already a decent alternative, if there's not already.
 
rascal14 said:
I'm sure by the time there will already a decent alternative, if there's not already.
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Endless possibilities for replacements for Kratom. Until just recently, there were a number of fentanyl analogues (research chemicals with opiate effects) that were legal and readily available. DEA made those schedule 1 as well. There will always be research chemicals mimicking their effect until the 'grey area' loophole is abolished.
 
kisaj said:
I've brought this up with some people after finding out about it and the general response is that "it will never happen" so there is little care. And this is amongst people that take supplements religiously.
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And this is why many in this country deserve every sh**ty thing that happens to this country, the apathy and laziness is unbelievable. Too busy tweeting and watching dancing with the stars to give two craps about things that matter! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Even if people think it will never happen, I don't understand why people can't take 5 minutes from that IG lifestyle and fill something out that could potentially effect them? This is how you get the effing Hillary's and Donald's of the world running for president
 
Watch Zeitgeist. It's more than being a sheep. It's being influenced without much control.

No wonder so many are apathetic. I'm not surprised even though I signed it. It makes little difference.
 
BCseacow83 said:
And this is why many in this country deserve every sh**ty thing that happens to this country, the apathy and laziness is unbelievable. Too busy tweeting and watching dancing with the stars to give two craps about things that matter! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Sadly, this is a global phenomenon my friend
 
While I don't support this bill, there has always been a shady underbelly to the supplement industry. Companies pushing the envelope on stuff doesn't help IMO.
 
Misfit28 said:
While I don't support this bill, there has always been a shady underbelly to the supplement industry. Companies pushing the envelope on stuff doesn't help IMO.
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That's true, but this bill (I accidentally typed "bull," which is also fitting) clearly wasn't written with an honest intent of targeting gray-area supplements, unless pretty much everything on the market is gray-area.
 
Misfit28 said:
While I don't support this bill, there has always been a shady underbelly to the supplement industry. Companies pushing the envelope on stuff doesn't help IMO.
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Yeah, it's gotten to this point. Also, I'm also sort of apathetic at this point. I've done all I can, and I've tried to spread the news. Whatever happens will happen. I'll just be sure to stock up on supps for awhile if sh*t hits the fan.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
That's true, but this bill (I accidentally typed "bull," which is also fitting) clearly wasn't written with an honest intent of targeting gray-area supplements, unless pretty much everything on the market is gray-area.
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I think that's because the authors of this bill are as ignorant about supplements as the general public.
 
Either that or are in Big Pharmas back pocket and do what they are told
 
Misfit28 said:
I think that's because the authors of this bill are as ignorant about supplements as the general public.
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I don't think it's that innocent in intentions if I'm being honest. Some of these natural supplements that'd be taken off the market are actually pretty useful for certain things (as alternatives or adjuncts), and are cheap to produce, safe, and have a long history of use. Pharma influence here perhaps?
 
muscleupcrohn said:
I don't think it's that innocent in intentions if I'm being honest. Some of these natural supplements that'd be taken off the market are actually pretty useful for certain things (as alternatives or adjuncts), and are cheap to produce, safe, and have a long history of use. Pharma influence here perhaps?
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As I said, not going to rule it out. Smacks of conspiracy, but pharma is greedy as hell.
 
Misfit28 said:
As I said, not going to rule it out. Smacks of conspiracy, but pharma is greedy as hell.
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Look you can quickly and easily find solid evidence of massive scandals of Pharma companies directly bribing both politicians and caught doing it as well bribing the FDA directly and getting caught.

Serepta a more recent scandal look it up

There has been scandals for while now where they will give 700,000$ to a super pac than all a sudden legislation goes their way or they give few hundred thousands to some guy in the FDA or a job opening for said FDA head or chairmen opens up musical chairs ya.. all just a coincidence they just wanted to give a few hundred thousand dollars to someone for the goodness of society I mean come on lol

Look at Bayer selling known tainted drugs to the US killing thousands of people than shipping the rest out of the country selling the same exact tainted supply to another country this happens all the time.

How many of them were sent to prison? Answer: Nobody

Yaz anyone? how many sent to prison over that: 0

Greed does not even begin to describe Bayer or many others they are downright evil when you sell AIDS infected drugs to people knowingly. Pharma is directly behind and supporting a lot of things such as keeping pot illegal as a sched 1 drug has been caught with leaked emails talking about how it will harm synthetic THC sales even.
 
Rob1882 said:
Look you can quickly and easily find solid evidence of massive scandals of Pharma companies directly bribing both politicians and caught doing it as well bribing the FDA directly and getting caught.

Serepta a more recent scandal look it up

There has been scandals for while now where they will give 700,000$ to a super pac than all a sudden legislation goes their way or they give few hundred thousands to some guy in the FDA or a job opening for said FDA head or chairmen opens up musical chairs ya.. all just a coincidence they just wanted to give a few hundred thousand dollars to someone for the goodness of society I mean come on lol

Look at Bayer selling known tainted drugs to the US killing thousands of people than shipping the rest out of the country selling the same exact tainted supply to another country this happens all the time.

How many of them were sent to prison? Answer: Nobody

Yaz anyone? how many sent to prison over that: 0

Greed does not even begin to describe Bayer or many others they are downright evil when you sell AIDS infected drugs to people knowingly.
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Never said that, man. I'm not a fan of big pharma.

All supplement companies are stand up citizens, though, right?
 
Misfit28 said:
Never said that, man. I'm not a fan of big pharma.

All supplement companies are stand up citizens, though, right?
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I am just pointing out they def without a doubt bribe politicians as well they clearly own and control the FDA they have cut funding to them through lobbying they absolutely without a doubt are in control them bribing to keep or push to make something illegal is absolutely happening and has happened they have been caught doing it this is established.

There is no conspiracy in that they gather about and discuss how to wrek the world; it is just a byproduct of unregulated industry in charge with very very deep pockets and no concern or value of human life. Look at the Aids tainted drugs they paid out a some millions so what they banked way more in profits just the cost of business.

Look at the recent Elizabeth Warren discussion with the CEO of Wells it is just another example of what is going on in corporate America. And people say the supplement business is shady.. it does not even touch the ballsack of the giants in down right scandelous evil.

Monsanto and Bayer merger titans of death

It's not an attack but some observations and things to perhaps look at directly as examples that are established you can see directly the backing of the kratom **** by large interests

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Congress Calls Out the DEA on Kratom was just posted earlier
 
muscleupcrohn said:
I don't think it's that innocent in intentions if I'm being honest. Some of these natural supplements that'd be taken off the market are actually pretty useful for certain things (as alternatives or adjuncts), and are cheap to produce, safe, and have a long history of use. Pharma influence here perhaps?
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Exactly my point
 
lol...I can see it now, supplement pushers hanging out in front of gyms-hey man, wanna buy some creatine?

another whole black market industry waiting to happen...I don't know why the government doesn't understand that if people want something they will find a way to get it-if there is profit in it...just look at how successful prohibition was, and how is that war on drugs going?


yup, lets fill up the prisons with creatine pushers, that should go over real well!!!
 
i think what is more interesting

Much of the agency’s fees come from Big Pharma, as drug companies not only pay to get their meds through the approvals process but also pony up extra fees for faster decisions.


i understand paying to speed up the process to get your passport back, but paying extra to get approved faster? that alone should be a red flag and how the F is that legal or allowed to happen?
 
smith_69 said:
i think what is more interesting

Much of the agency’s fees come from Big Pharma, as drug companies not only pay to get their meds through the approvals process but also pony up extra fees for faster decisions.


i understand paying to speed up the process to get your passport back, but paying extra to get approved faster? that alone should be a red flag and how the F is that legal or allowed to happen?
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DEA and ATF are nearly useless and have their own agendas $$$. They mine as well expand the FBI's field offices and incorporate those two agencies. More scrutiny from the Department of Justice would certainly solve the already corrupt system.
 
When you lie to the government it is a crime. When they lie to you it's called politics.
 
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