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Super Confused - Should I buy 11-Keto or 11-oxo raw powder?! (Nutra-innovations)

drswsdc

drswsdc

Member
I keep hearing that these are two different compounds and then I hear other people say that they are the same thing! I am on the nutra-innovations website looking to purchase some raw powder because it's the best value but don't know if I should get the 11-oxo powder or 11-keto powder and if it is literally two different compounds? Also, I know people dose 11-oxo at up to 1 gram per day but what would a good/strong dose of 11-keto be?

Thanks guys!
 
11-oxo converts to 11-keto in the body
 
11kt is the hormone that 11-oxo converts to in your body, with that being said you " may need/want " to take more 11 oxo to get the same amount of 11 kt. So instead of using a spray, we offer the oral version of KT with Tetrasorb. KT range is around 350-500 per day. However, Alpha Carrier is a great delivery system for all of our raw powders.

lower doses of 11 oxo should help to lower cortisol and higher doses will start suppression- 850 mg and over-

NutraChem did I miss anything
booneman77 thank you sir
 
smith_69 said:
11kt is the hormone that 11-oxo converts to in your body, with that being said you " may need/want " to take more 11 oxo to get the same amount of 11 kt. So instead of using a spray, we offer the oral version of KT with Tetrasorb. KT range is around 350-500 per day. However, Alpha Carrier is a great delivery system for all of our raw powders.

lower doses of 11 oxo should help to lower cortisol and higher doses will start suppression- 850 mg and over-

NutraChem did I miss anything
booneman77 thank you sir
Click to expand...

you 100% need more 11oxo to get the same effect as 11kt. the coversion rate will not even be close to 100%... as smith stated, its typically 3-5x more oxo vs kt and even that depends on how you dose it (oral vs td) as that will impact bioavailability before you even get to conversion
 
booneman77 said:
you 100% need more 11oxo to get the same effect as 11kt. the coversion rate will not even be close to 100%... as smith stated, its typically 3-5x more oxo vs kt and even that depends on how you dose it (oral vs td) as that will impact bioavailability before you even get to conversion
Click to expand...

I ended up getting 50 grams of bulk 11-oxo and was thinking about running it at ~1 gram per day for 4-6 weeks. What are your thoughts? I was going to do Reduce XT and maybe Letrone for PCT...
 
drswsdc said:
I ended up getting 50 grams of bulk 11-oxo and was thinking about running it at ~1 gram per day for 4-6 weeks.
What are your thoughts? I was going to do Reduce XT and maybe Letrone for PCT...
Click to expand...


looks pretty solid. From all the research I've done, 11 Oxo oral is best around 900mg (close to a gram) per day.

For PCT I would also add a solid test booster with the Letrone & maybe throw in some Rebirth.

I will be running similar PCT after my 11 Keto run.
 
vujade said:
looks pretty solid. From all the research I've done, 11 Oxo oral is best around 900mg (close to a gram) per day.

For PCT I would also add a solid test booster with the Letrone & maybe throw in some Rebirth.

I will be running similar PCT after my 11 Keto run.
Click to expand...

Great to know thanks! Would Rebirth and Reduct XT be enough for a proper PCT?
 
drswsdc said:
Great to know thanks! Would Rebirth and Reduct XT be enough for a proper PCT?
Click to expand...

i would defintely run Rebirth over letrone in PCT. Rebirth has worked really well for getting the HPTA kick started again.

I also like to run test booster in PCT too. Not sure if you need to keep reducing cortisol during PCT after reducing it
for 6 weeks on cycle. Maybe sub out a test booster for the Reduce XT (nothing wrong with it during PCT, but if i
had to choose between it and a test booster, I go test booster myself)
 
vujade said:
i would defintely run Rebirth over letrone in PCT. Rebirth has worked really well for getting the HPTA kick started again.

I also like to run test booster in PCT too. Not sure if you need to keep reducing cortisol during PCT after reducing it
for 6 weeks on cycle. Maybe sub out a test booster for the Reduce XT (nothing wrong with it during PCT, but if i
had to choose between it and a test booster, I go test booster myself)
Click to expand...

Okay good info, thanks! I thought I had read somewhere that you want to keep your cortisol under control after the cycle because it could rebound?
 
drswsdc said:
Great to know thanks! Would Rebirth and Reduct XT be enough for a proper PCT?
Click to expand...

vujade said:
i would defintely run Rebirth over letrone in PCT. Rebirth has worked really well for getting the HPTA kick started again.

I also like to run test booster in PCT too. Not sure if you need to keep reducing cortisol during PCT after reducing it
for 6 weeks on cycle. Maybe sub out a test booster for the Reduce XT (nothing wrong with it during PCT, but if i
had to choose between it and a test booster, I go test booster myself)
Click to expand...

agree with vujade as well. I would only add if using a SERM then I, wouldn't go with a TB, otherwise I would do the same as he stated.
 
Is there a benefit to running Rebirth in addition to OL's Sup3r PCT for PCT, which already has 600mg of E. Cottonii?
 
I've used 11-oxo up to 1.2g/day and loved it. 11-KT should be stronger, but I wonder if the oxy actually has some effects that the KT lacks. Both are good products.

For PCT, if you want to be safe and bring the A game I would do:

SERM
Test Booster (Alphamax XT or even Super PCT are good)
Reduce XT.
 
I think they all covered you above ha...

rebirth or serm (this will be very light so no issue with just rebirth)
test booster
reduce xt
 
HIT4ME said:
I've used 11-oxo up to 1.2g/day and loved it. 11-KT should be stronger, but I wonder if the oxy actually has some effects that the KT lacks. Both are good products.

For PCT, if you want to be safe and bring the A game I would do:

SERM
Test Booster (Alphamax XT or even Super PCT are good)
Reduce XT.
Click to expand...

Awesome man! I'm trying to avoid using a SERM so I would probably go with Rebirth. Do you think that would be okay? And how long did you run 11-oxo at 1.2 grams and what were your results/side effects? Thanks man!
 
drswsdc said:
I was going to get 20 grams of 11-keto from NI but found 50 grams of 11-oxo for a better deal - China lol
Click to expand...

well, hope that came with some dim sum
 
[video=youtube;mEB7WbTTlu4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEB7WbTTlu4[/video]
 
drswsdc said:
Haha no not quite lol! That's why you pay with Paypal credit with their interest free 6 months and payment protection!
Click to expand...

First of all, every single member that gave advise in this thread has been amazingly accurate! Smart fellows indeed and I agree (probably won't need a SERM so apply occam's razor if not necessary)

And about Alibaba, be careful my friend. I haven't heard of any specific Adrenosterone (11-oxo) scams lately, but years back I knew a dude who got burned several times trying to source it there. If the price looks too good to be true, it often is!

I know what you mean though, China is tempting with their pricing. Just like that stupid weird Al song, they love me on ebay, lol. But as an analyst I can say that if they think you won't test it, they might try to scam you with the bait and switch. It's more common than you might think. The extra cash for tested, legit material can actually save you $ from getting burned in the long run, ya know?
 
NutraChem said:
First of all, every single member that gave advise in this thread has been amazingly accurate! Smart fellows indeed and I agree (probably won't need a SERM so apply occam's razor if not necessary)

And about Alibaba, be careful my friend. I haven't heard of any specific Adrenosterone (11-oxo) scams lately, but years back I knew a dude who got burned several times trying to source it there. If the price looks too good to be true, it often is!

I know what you mean though, China is tempting with their pricing. Just like that stupid weird Al song, they love me on ebay, lol. But as an analyst I can say that if they think you won't test it, they might try to scam you with the bait and switch. It's more common than you might think. The extra cash for tested, legit material can actually save you $ from getting burned in the long run, ya know?
Click to expand...

This is really great advice and I appreciate it! I didn't source it from Alibaba but got it from another company who I have read about on other forums who had great success with them. I also talked them down big time on the price originally they wanted $150 plus shipping for 50 grams of Adrenosterone but I talked them down so HOPEFULLY they aren't pulling any baits and switches! So I'm hoping for the best lol
 
drswsdc said:
This is really great advice and I appreciate it! I didn't source it from Alibaba but got it from another company who I have read about on other forums who had great success with them. I also talked them down big time on the price originally they wanted $150 plus shipping for 50 grams of Adrenosterone but I talked them down so HOPEFULLY they aren't pulling any baits and switches! So I'm hoping for the best lol
Click to expand...

OK, well that doesn't sound so bad. :)

As far as 50g/$100, it is technically possible, i mean it's not an overt scam! But they are barely making anything on that deal, especially with free shipping, so you must be an exceptional negotiator, lol. ;)
 
The_Old_Guy said:
So all these Chinese Herbs, Stems, Leaves, and Roots in all these supplements...don't come from China? LOL
Click to expand...

Yup, except for the 10% of them that come from India, South America, or domestic, lol. :p (and they might come from China too, haha)
 
NutraChem said:
OK, well that doesn't sound so bad. :)

As far as 50g/$100, it is technically possible, i mean it's not an overt scam! But they are barely making anything on that deal, especially with free shipping, so you must be an exceptional negotiator, lol. ;)
Click to expand...

The shipping was actually $36 so out the door I paid $136... I'm not that good :-( haha
 
drswsdc said:
Awesome man! I'm trying to avoid using a SERM so I would probably go with Rebirth. Do you think that would be okay? And how long did you run 11-oxo at 1.2 grams and what were your results/side effects? Thanks man!
Click to expand...

I have no experience with rebirth, so it is hard for me to say if that will be enough. The thing with 11-oxo is that it is very very mild so you MAY not need anything. There are people who run dianabol with no PCT and get away with it. Is it smart? No. I'd say with 11-oxo you are quite a bit more likely to be OK without a SERM, but how will you really know if you aren't getting blood work done? Blood work will cost a lot more than a SERM anyway.

If you want to avoid RCs and stay away from SERMs, a good OTC PCT is probably sufficient. The more you take and the longer you take it...your chances of needing a SERM will go up accordingly.

Without blood work, I'd say my experience of running 1.2 grams (maybe for 4 weeks of an 8 week cycle as I ramped up)...I would bet it's 50/50 even at 1 gram that you will need one. But is it worth not using it?
 
as always, thanks mw1
 
The_Old_Guy said:
So all these Chinese Herbs, Stems, Leaves, and Roots in all these supplements...don't come from China? LOL
Click to expand...

I'm sure people are aware of this ;). The key is sourcing a good domestic importer for these herbal based ingredients as even these can be counterfeit or faked. One day you order some Longjack the next day your tribulus arrives ;)
 
NutraTeam said:
I'm sure people are aware of this ;). The key is sourcing a good domestic importer for these herbal based ingredients as even these can be counterfeit or faked. One day you order some Longjack the next day your tribulus arrives ;)
Click to expand...

How true you are, Sir!

One day you order some Longjack, then the next day your Tribulus arrive, but it arrives labeled as Cissus (or some other weird chemical name you can't even pronounce in english!) lol

Gotta test, test, test, no way around it. :)
 
[video=youtube;MYrY8aFCUCQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYrY8aFCUCQ[/video]

testing or you get him
NutraChem lmao had to do it
 
Hahaha, doody doody!! Best movie EVER. :p
 
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