brofessorx
Well-known member
Probably. I'd worry more about the sides from accutane
Best Andro Delivery systems?
- Thread starter zman86
- Start date
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
spot on. that stuff is nasty man.
i wouldnt suggest stacking the two, accutane takes a toll on ones liver, and we know 1-dhea has some impact on the liver, although not a huge one.
zman86
Member
I thought that's where cyclosome do its job
Aaron.Cole
Active member
Not quite. It's more like going to the ice cream shoppe, finding out ice cream is banned but being told the next best thing is frozen yogurt. Any literate person with some sense of intelligence would understand it's not Superdrol, but possibly the next best thing. If it is or not is an entirely different conversation; now we're just arguing semantics. That being said, totally understand and sympathize with where you're coming from.
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
Cyclosome allows the hormone to bypass the first pass on the liver. You still get a 2nd pass, and it will impact SOME liver toxicity, although again, very minimally.
I just view accutane as way more dangerous(and the sickness/side effects/deaths back that opinion up), so I don't suggest pairing it with any anabolics
De__eB
Well-known member
hamdysayed
Well-known member
Just looked it up , that $hit have NASTY NASTY side effects.
not even sure what it do or what's the benefit.
TexasLifter89
Well-known member
The "benefit" is that it rids acne. It just has terrible side effects that make it not worth it to most people.
hamdysayed
Well-known member
That's it ??? I thought it have anabolic effects etc, nah screw that.
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
some poeple get lucky with it. My wife had zero sides from it, and it worked like a charm for her when she was younger. other people however...can have life long issues
T-Bone
Banned
Nah, because it wouldn't be called an Ice Cream shop if ice cream was banned. The thing is, if it's not Superdrol than don't call it Superdrol. Same thing with all the other products that call themselves something they aren't. At least with some other companies they at least change the spelling or something. Remember SuperDrol NG?. People knew it wasn't Superdrol because of the NG. I guess you could just look at the profile on the back to know it's not SD...Maybe they should put, "April Fools!" on the back above the actual profile.
I'm sure it'll be a good product for people that like DHEA products or think they are worthwhile. I'm not questioning that at all. The only thing that bothers me and a lot of other people is naming a product a drug that it's not. If they changed this one thing I think a lot more people would take them seriously. That's all I'm saying. I'm not trying to bash anybody or any company.
Aaron.Cole
Active member
Well, maybe we can just both agree that ice cream is freaking amazing. Thank God it's not banned, too.
zman86
Member
Back acne
hamdysayed
Well-known member
for the sides not worth it.
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
Yes. Of course any supp company has a ton of leeway in what can be said in Ad Copy or in Forum Posts - I'd like proof something like SODASTM is actually being used in the product. Exactly *what* "Controlled Release Bead" tech is being used? What company, that was purchased, produced it? And what drugs has it been FDA approved for use in? The more posts I read, the louder the saying "If it sounds too good to be true..." rings in my head. But don't get me wrong - if the proof is shown (and the price/mg and transparent dosing is there) I'd consider using it.
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
we actually have very very very little leeway of what can be said via our written word. Make a false claim in a magazine ad or on your website, and the FTC will push your proverbial poop in.
The proof is starting to be shown in our pudding. We're consistently showing results as good or significantly better at 200mg/day of our 1-andro than other companies 1-andro at 330mg or even higher.
I get it, you're skeptical. I'm pretty sure we ALL get it now, as you find a way to discuss it in every single thread. Why not try a cycle out, hell, try it out on me, and see what type of results you get in comparison to other 1-andro products you've used in the past?
brofessorx
Well-known member
I would of tossed an app in your superdrol promo thread, as I used pp's andromass when it came out, for only 4 weeks back in '11, an it was good, but really needed 6-8 weeks at least , but the cost was too high for this.
Anyway, I can't as I've been on cycle since mid December, an it wouldn't be fair.
Anyway, I can't as I've been on cycle since mid December, an it wouldn't be fair.
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
I bring up critical thinking and deconstruction of *claims* made - seems those get brought up quite often as well... as a matter of fact, my posting on the matter is in direct proportion to the number of claims made. I know it's a PITA for the industry employees, but if this site was 100% fan boys, it would have little credibility. I'm sure I'm not the only one that wants to hear *something* besides "trust us" about supplements?
I just want reasonable questions answered. I've already laid out the numerous valid (I think) reasons that loggers using a bodyweight scale is the least desirable measure of what a PED is doing. Tell me about the "Reverse Bead Tech" that was brought up. Don't use my cost of $3,700 per kilo of 1-Andro powder as your cost. Don't say a 7 ingredient prop blend is dosed at "300mg", when at *most* the two primary ones listed by weight can only be around 150mg... and then go on about how 200mg does this and that - 150 isn't 200. It just goes on and on and I'm not supposed to point it out?
The same thing happened with the "Fake Ephedra that doesn't do anything" discussion. It was presented that there was some big "Ephedra Win!" when all it was, was the dumba$$ government halting the import of neutered Ephedra just because of the name (and yes, I agree, they were dumb and wrong on that one) - and the company getting it back to sell. Not a big deal - "Real" Ephedra, with intact alkaloids that actually liberate fatty acids, increase metabolism and thermogenesis, is still illegal.
Let's not even start on how "hard" US supplement laws are, L O F'n L. Would you rather be subject to Canadian or EU laws?
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
No one is expecting anyone to simply take "trust us" as an answer. Thus why I respond to each and every single one of your concerns, in every single thread.
I don't know how many times I need to review the dosing in Superdrol with you. each pill is 300mg, providing 600mg/day between the various compounds. Our users are getting 10-16.8lbs of size gains in 4 weeks on 200mg of 1-andro + cyclosome alone. Add to that additional ingredients are similar doses, and you get your 600mg total daily intake.
You can point out anything you'd like. The proof is being shown in each and every log we provide, as we're giving users just over 50% of the "recommended dose" of this ingredient, and getting results on par or significantly better than any other companies are, thanks to our delivery system which has TONS of proof/clinical backing thanks to it being invented by Indena.
I am still not sure what the price of these compounds has to do with the argument. Yes, our cost for raws is less than an end users, that much is obvious. An end user however doesn't have to pay for manufacturing, bottling/labeling, advertising, salaries, and work in distributor profit + retailer profit. We unfortunately do.
I have literally zero clue what you're talking about in regards to saying the US has "hard" supplement laws. When have I ever claimed that?
We offer ingredients which are clinically proven to be very effective prohormones. We add to them the most advanced delivery system available in our industry, and it cost us a LOT of money to get this technology. The facts are that despite the skepticism, end users are giving these products rave reviews due to their weight gain, strength gain, and other obvious benefits while on cycle.
I requested more information regarding various delivery/manufacturing options we offer in our various products(like pill inside a pill etc which I mentioned earlier), and will relay that info as soon as I receive it.
If you have an actual question, ask it...and I'll answer it like I do in every single thread. To simply continue to say "your prop blend sucks!" when in reality you have zero clue what the total amounts add up to...well that's on you. Don't like a prop blend? Use our single ingredient products which don't feature a prop blend. 1-Testosterone offers the highest single dose of 1-andro on the market, and it is not in a prop blend. I really dont get the cognitive dissonance here. Don't like Superdrol? Don't use it. Want to know EXACTLY what you're getting down to the mg in our prohormones? Then use one of the 6-7 products we offer which have completely transparent labels.
clown007
Well-known member
I have to agree with the above.
The questions posed are reasonable and legit.
I am interested to know how the technology works. These delivery system questions remain, because there is a lack of explanation as to how they work.
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
The whole dosing argument about the prop blend cracks me up.
Prior to HiTech offering 1-andro with cyclosome, EVERY SINGLE FORUM would have said "if you're not dosing this stuff at least 330mg+ you're not going to get gains".
Yet lo and behold...200mg/day of ours are providing insane gains for users. So what is causing the great results for users of ours at 200mg vs 330mg+ of other companies? We both know the answer.
Now, you get to have your cake and eat it too with 1-Testosterone as it provides 330mg/day + cyclosome.
Prior to HiTech offering 1-andro with cyclosome, EVERY SINGLE FORUM would have said "if you're not dosing this stuff at least 330mg+ you're not going to get gains".
Yet lo and behold...200mg/day of ours are providing insane gains for users. So what is causing the great results for users of ours at 200mg vs 330mg+ of other companies? We both know the answer.
Now, you get to have your cake and eat it too with 1-Testosterone as it provides 330mg/day + cyclosome.
Aaron.Cole
Active member
I think you have reasonable questions. Why not take him up on the complimentary 1-Andro while you're waiting for ALL your questions to be sufficiently answered?
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
Here is how the phospholipid/liposomal portion (2nd part of "cyclosome") works via the direct patent itself: Invalid Link Removed
Here is how cyclodextrin portion (1st part of "cyclosome") works: Invalid Link Removed
I have posted these links and many others MANY times. Thus my frustration. I am answering the same questions over and over, yet no one seems to be reading and digesting any of the actual science being posted.
clown007
Well-known member
Excellent. Thank you Vaughn, I must have missed these links. I will read them now.
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
I will stand by my word and offer the cycle, however it's pretty obvious what the end result of his "test" will be.
Even running the product at the clinically studied 330mg/day dose, I highly doubt he is going to say he enjoyed his cycle much. So despite a study showing users gaining ~10lbs in a month at 330mg/day, I think his prior posting is going to show that no matter what Hi-tech offers (this would be different for companies he supports), he isn't going to be a fan.
I hope I am wrong however.
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
Man, you just go 'round and round. Taking just *1* example from above, YOU used MY cost of 1-Andro powder in an example of why YOUR products cost what they do - do I literally have to go find it and quote it? So apparently some things aren't obvious. I could rebut almost all of the rest ^ but I'm not that invested. Carry on.
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
SEDDS Delivery System
SEDDS or “Self-Emulsifying Drug Delivery Systems” is a new delivery system which is just about to hit the dietary supplement market. This method of delivery system claims to work as a result of: “SEDDS possess potential to improve oral bioavailability in poorly water soluble drugs. Following their oral administration, these systems rapidly disperse in gastrointestinal fluids, yielding micro- or nano-emulsions containing the solubilized drug. Micro/non-emulsified drug can easily be absorbed through lymphatic pathways, bypassing the hepatic first-pass effect, owing to their miniscule globule size” (National Institute of Pharmaceutical Education and Research).
SEDDS delivery vastly improves the effects from 1-DHEA and 4-DHEA by increasing overall bioavailability up to 9x greater than non-delivery system administration. This claim can be seen below:
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Source: Invalid Link Removed
This study showed that when using a hormone (in this case progesterone) SEDDS offers up to 9x greater bioavailability when compared to no delivery system. This means that while no delivery system offers 3-6% bioavailability, SEDDS offers up to 9x that, or a 27-54% bioavailability. Keep in mind however that the higher end of this bioavailability spectrum is highly unlikely for the average user as it assumes perfect conversions in the body, something which never happens in vivo quite the same as it does in vitro. That being said, SEDDS offers a VAST improvement from traditional dosing of these compounds, and users can expect far greater results, fewer side effects, and less overall HPTA shutdown when using the SEDDS delivery method over no delivery method.
In short, SEDDS provides a much higher rate of bioavailability, lesser chance for estrogenic conversion, and a much more effective cycle.
Cyclosome™ Delivery System/Phytosome Delivery System
Cyclosome™ delivery system is the first completely pharmaceutical grade delivery system utilized in dietary supplements. Originally designed by Indena® under the name Phytosome®, Cyclosome™ utilizes identical technology to increase the bioavailability and intensity of 1-DHEA and 4-DHEA. For quick reference, this video briefly explains how the technology works:
[video=youtube;extbuY3CvCk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=extbuY3CvCk[/video]
Studies on humans (not rats, rabbits, pigs, dogs, or anything else), have shown Cyclosome™ technology to enhance bioavailability 29xhigher than non-delivery system methods, bringing with it a minimum of 90% bioavailability (Source: Invalid Link Removed)
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This type of delivery system showcases what is currently known as the most effective way of increasing bioavailability for compounds such as 1-DHEA and 4-DHEA. This means much more potent and anabolic cycles, little to no estrogenic side effects, and minimal HPTA suppression.
How do the 3 types perform when compared using identical doses?
To help you determine which delivery system (or lack thereof) is best for you in your search for the best cycle possible, here is a quick and easy guide. No delivery system will be abbreviated using “NDS”, SEDDS will be abbreviated as “SED”, and Cyclosome™ technology will be abbreviated as “CST”.
100mg/day dosing:
NDS x 100mg (3-6% bioavailability) = 3-6mg 1-DHEA/4-DHEA in the blood
SED x 100mg (3-6% bioavailability) x 9 = 27-54mg 1-DHEA/4-DHEA in the blood
CST x 100mg (3-6% bioavailability) x >90% bioavailability = greater than 90mg 1-DHEA/4-DHEA in the blood
To understand which delivery system is best for you, it’s crucial that you understand how the product you’re planning on purchasing is dosed, as this varies greatly from manufacturer to manufacturer. For example, if one product gives you 60srv of 50mg capsules, versus 60srv of 100mg capsules, this may play a role in how you decide which is the better overall value.
Aaron.Cole
Active member
It's because answers aren't good enough. They want answers!
Aaron.Cole
Active member
Okay, now I'm confused. And I study philosophy and metaphysics.
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
Yes, i quoted your post and used those numbers becuase you posted them, and I was responding to you.
In this post just now, I mentioned specifically that obviously our raw prices are lower, but that we have MANY fees that go into the production of a product.
What are you not understanding about the cost of bringing a supplement to the market? Do you think manufacturing is free? Magazine ads? Salaries? Rent/utilities? Research? Each of these is factored into the cost of every single dietary supplement.
When you go to buy bulk creatine raws, your price is more expensive than a companies. Yet a company offers you a product at a higher overall cost because packaging, flavoring, advertising all play into the product price. What is it about these prohormones being very expensive to product that you cannot mentally grasp?
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
I appreciate the offer, but I don't think I could ethically accept anything, or even pay - I just don't like the business model/practices. I wouldn't lie however, but thanks for that vote of confidence
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
I appreciate the offer, but I don't think I could ethically accept anything, or even pay - I just don't like the business model/practices. I wouldn't lie however, but thanks for that vote of confidence
Has questions.
Receives direct responses to each and every question asked.
Is offered more and more information as requested.
Is offered a free cycle of $120 worth of prohormones to be used at his discretion so he can see the impact of our claimed technology first hand.
Declines.
So...now we're "round and round". Let me know actual questions you have, and I will answer them. Simply standing there and saying "ahah screw prop blends!" doesn't help anyone on this forum learn anything.
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
Well, no offense, but that is a really strange way to respond to a post about why your product is priced what it is.
Our stuff is expensive to produce
Uh, I can get 10g for $37
Yeah, but that's $3700 a kilo and then we have R&D, labeling, distro, carrying costs, etc....
Not how I'd have answered it, but ok. Yes, I know more than raw costs are involved in the end price.
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
still...no discussion of our non-proprietary blend prohormones like 1-Testosterone, 1-AD, Androdiol, Decabolin, Equibolin, and more.
How someone is THIS hung up over 1 product, when we offer so many non prop blends is absolutely mind blowing
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How someone is THIS hung up over 1 product, when we offer so many non prop blends is absolutely mind blowing
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VaughnTrue
Well-known member
And you questioning the pricing is weird to me when we're very similarly priced to every other competing product on the market.
We have 1-Testosterone at the same dose as OL 1-andro product, with our advanced delivery system. So for the few extra bucks ours cost, you get enhanced bioavailability.
Where am I not understanding you here? The final cost of our products to end users is a result of raw materials, manufacturing, advertising, building in profit for distributors and retailers, and more.
Aaron.Cole
Active member
I appreciate the offer, but I don't think I could ethically accept anything, or even pay - I just don't like the business model/practices. I wouldn't lie however, but thanks for that vote of confidence
Then what has been the point of this whole series of conversations I've just wasted my time on?
You're basically going to attack a company's claim and then, when they offer you a chance at deciding for yourself, you hide behind a veneer of the ethically higher ground. It's almost laughable. Almost.
"Nothing requires a greater effort of thought than arguments to justify the rule of non-thought."
TexasLifter89
Well-known member
So you don't use your costs to decide your pricing on things? Wat.
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
I would love for ANYONE in here who is interested in our products to head to either of these two links, post up and app and you will be given VIP preferential treatment in regards to chance to win/log the product:
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hvactech
Legend
does it come with a life size poster of your lat spread to hang over my bed?
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
I disagree that you have provided any substantive answers, but I guess that's subjective.
This all started with a claim of "Reverse Bead Technology" and I asked some questions about that (that you didn't post, someone else did). Did I miss all those answers?
I love how declining free product is seen as a detractor, but you did hedge your bets in case I accepted by implying I'd lie about the results. I don't take any free product (as you know when you offered me some Finish Line) - another company that I actually use offered some and I declined as well - FREE can taint results, even subliminally IMO.
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
I posted our exact claims about our pill in pill technology. I did not claim to use "reverse bead technology", as I am unsure if the two are one in the same, but like I mentioned 2x now, I have requested more information in regards to that specific delivery method.
Every single question you post, I answer fully, or tell you I am looking for more information.
Type up your list of questions, and I will get EACH of them answered fully. How much more simple can I make this?
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
I didn't "attack" anything. Me and Brofessor were talking about SODAS after an HT poster said they use/will be using "Reverse Bead Technology". I went out and found SODAS and then asked for some details. A lot of this other stuff is a carryover from other threads (raw costs, etc...) I'm not "hiding" anything - I don't like a number of things they do, so I *would* be laughable if I took product. If you can't understand that, cie la vie.
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
No, I stated we use a "pill inside pill" technology, and then I posted the EXACT claim from our website. I stated we utilized similar technology, but since I don't know if we use that EXACT technology, I never stated as such.
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
I know you didn't, but you took up the banner when you replied to my reply to Brofessor... and here we are.
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
Double Tap
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
now you're just being childish.
He mentioned a unique delivery method, and I stated we offered something in the same vein.
You then claim I stated we use Reverse Bead Technology, and then 3 minutes later say "I know you didn't claim that"
Make up your mind, pick a position, and stick with it.
Again:
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
Oh Good God! I never said "You"
Lets put it down to somewhere in the excitement, we got some wires crossed.
You can't answer the questions I have, so while it looks good to say that...
How much 4-Ad and 1-Andro in Superdrol? See? I'm good if you are... I gotta get some dang work done...
T-Bone
Banned
It's the same thing, but opposite with fanboys though. They get free product and then will tell you the product is amazing, no matter what...Because they fear if they don't post positive results they won't get more free products. They also feel guilty that the product was free and feel like if they posted something negative than that would be selfish. The main goal is to get more free products to log from more companies. That's how it works. Everyone knows it, yet no one is going to say anything because there will probably be consequences....Just like I may get in trouble for this post. All you have to do is take a look at the logs and reviews from sponsored loggers and you will see the same users again and again logging with the same stellar reviews . You'd have to be blind not to see this going on.
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
I requested more information about that claim, as well as the pill in pill(which Is what claim I thought you were referencing), so I will have answers on both ASAP.
Does any supplement company release proprietary formulas? No.
Now, you can answer one of my questions for once. Why worry about Superdrol when we have 6-7+ prohormones with no proprietary blends, which show exactly what you're getting in each serving?
We get it. You don't like prop blends, so Superdrol would be out with you. Got it. So, why is 1-Testosterone or any of our other non-prop blend products ****ty? Please elaborate.
Post up your questions, and I will get them answered. In this instance, will we disclose proprietary blends? No, we will not.