SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

Chrisko said:
If i came across as rude, I am sorry. That was not my intention.
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Didn't bother me & it was actually a good reference back to those planned cycles, so thanks for the tip :fing02:
 
cheeky1 said:
That's a fair question I think. There's been much water under the bridge since the inception of this thread. A better question now would be "is that still the recommended cycle for running Rad? And what other products am I best to use during & post cycle?"
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I still stand behind the reccomendations for cycle dosing from the first page, especially for beginners. Of course, someone with much more experience will want to go higher than my somewhat conservative dosing but my op is still gtg.
 
NoAddedHmones said:
Invalid Link Removed
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I take it then that Enobosarm/GTx-024 is also Ostarine/MK2866?

Interesting read, thanks for posting :bigok:

Those poor mice..."castration" :34:
 
yates84 said:
I still stand behind the reccomendations for cycle dosing from the first page, especially for beginners. Of course, someone with much more experience will want to go higher than my somewhat conservative dosing but my op is still gtg.
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Awesome, good to know. Thank you.
 
Chrisko said:
How long have you been on? Are you going to run the osta pass your lgd/mk or end it at the same time? How is it treating you?
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I've been 5 weeks of LGD/MK-677, started at 8mg LGD and 10mg mk for 2 weeks, bumped up to 12mg LGD and 20mg mk until last week dropped the mk back to 10mg because of bloating and hunger (LGD still at 12mg). My plan is to run the LGD 12 weeks and the ostarine 12-16 weeks while running the mk a full 6 months, maybe longer. That will put the ostarine 4 to 8 weeks past the end of the LGD. Ostarine dose plan is to stay at 15mg for 2 weeks then increase to 20mg and stay there for a while. The cycle so far has been great. Highly recommended. But it's too early to tell if the ostarine is doing anything additional yet since it's only been a week since adding it.
 
On first page yates84 you have

Ostarine example cycle:
Beginner cut
Ostarine - 15/15/15/15/15/15
PCT:
OL Super PCT as indicated on label
*AI of choice on hand


Why no serm posted for this cycle?
 
Bigdumogre said:
On first page yates84 you have

Ostarine example cycle:
Beginner cut
Ostarine - 15/15/15/15/15/15
PCT:
OL Super PCT as indicated on label
*AI of choice on hand


Why no serm posted for this cycle?
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I guess I forgot to type it in there! I always reccomend a serm, even for a short osta cycle. Serms are so cheap and work so good that there is no reason it shouldn't be included imo. Sorry for any confusion.
 
yates84 said:
I guess I forgot to type it in there! I always reccomend a serm, even for a short osta cycle. Serms are so cheap and work so good that there is no reason it shouldn't be included imo. Sorry for any confusion.
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I totally agree and will be using clomid
Just womdering why it wasent in that cycle
 
Bigdumogre said:
I totally agree and will be using clomid
Just womdering why it wasent in that cycle
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Facepalm on my part, guess I need to edit my op
 
yates84 said:
Serms are so cheap and work so good that there is no reason it shouldn't be included imo. Sorry for any confusion.
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No reason? They are cheap, indeed. But they are the opposite of healthy...
If you rate the financial situation higher than your health...

Once you have a carcinoma triggered by SERM (only one side effect with increases with higher probability) you won't be able to use anabolic substances for the rest of your life (better said: you shouldn't).
To use such chemicals bombs is - in my opinion - appropriate at serious condition. In our case: shutdown/strong decrease of HPTA. If that's not the case the intake of a SERM is not necessary.

In most cases the axis is not that harsh affected. The only thing what gives you a 100% security is to make a blood test. Only in such definitive cases (strong suppression or shutdown) or in abolute doubt (when no blood test was made, which is suboptimal) I would recomment the abuse of SERM.

If you want to use one, use a second generation SERM like Toremifene or Raloxifene. They have less effects (still potent) but also less side effects in comparison to first generation SERM like Tamoxifene or Clomifene.
 
sanmarino said:
No reason? They are cheap, indeed. But they are the opposite of healthy...
If you rate the financial situation higher than your health...

Once you have a carcinoma triggered by SERM (only one side effect with increases with higher probability) you won't be able to use anabolic substances for the rest of your life (better said: you shouldn't).
To use such chemicals bombs is - in my opinion - appropriate at serious condition. In our case: shutdown/strong decrease of HPTA. If that's not the case the intake of a SERM is not necessary.

In most cases the axis is not that harsh affected. The only thing what gives you a 100% security is to make a blood test. Only in such definitive cases (strong suppression or shutdown) or in abolute doubt (when no blood test was made, which is suboptimal) I would recomment the abuse of SERM.

If you want to use one, use a second generation SERM like Toremifene or Raloxifene. They have less effects (still potent) but also less side effects in comparison to first generation SERM like Tamoxifene or Clomifene.
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True, clomid and nolva are toxic and bloodwork is the best way of determining Whether or not a serm is necessary. But let's face it, 95% of guys on here are NOT going to get bloodwork done. I think you are overrating the toxicity issue just slightly, especially when clomid is prescribed as trt for indefinite amounts of time. True, torem is less toxic and would be a great choice for pct but ralox just isn't quite good enough at encouraging hpta restart. Personally, nolva and ralox won't ever be in my pct unless I have gyno issues. Then I would be all over some ralox! There is a negative consequence for every action we take and we all know the risks we take when cycling anabolics. As always, you are correct and have provided good information to this thread but I will be sticking to my clomid for now ;)
 
sanmarino said:
No reason? They are cheap, indeed. But they are the opposite of healthy...
If you rate the financial situation higher than your health...

Once you have a carcinoma triggered by SERM (only one side effect with increases with higher probability) you won't be able to use anabolic substances for the rest of your life (better said: you shouldn't).
To use such chemicals bombs is - in my opinion - appropriate at serious condition. In our case: shutdown/strong decrease of HPTA. If that's not the case the intake of a SERM is not necessary.

In most cases the axis is not that harsh affected. The only thing what gives you a 100% security is to make a blood test. Only in such definitive cases (strong suppression or shutdown) or in abolute doubt (when no blood test was made, which is suboptimal) I would recomment the abuse of SERM.

If you want to use one, use a second generation SERM like Toremifene or Raloxifene. They have less effects (still potent) but also less side effects in comparison to first generation SERM like Tamoxifene or Clomifene.
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Are you saying PCT dosages of Clomid or Nolva are abusive dosages? And you feel there is significant risk of cancer forming from a 4-6 week pct protocol. Sounds like alarmism at its finest.
 
Every drug which isn't needed is drug abuse. I don't think you need SARM or SERM officially :)

It's your good right to think or act in the way you like. I only mentioned it because I red a lot, there were used like smarties.
I personally would never use SERM until they are absolutely necessary.

I hope you all know what you are doing ;) But that's none of my business. Just made a little comment :)
 
sanmarino said:
Every drug which isn't needed is drug abuse. I don't think you need SARM or SERM officially :)

It's your good right to think or act in the way you like. I only mentioned it because I red a lot, there were used like smarties.
I personally would never use SERM until they are absolutely necessary.

I hope you all know what you are doing ;) But that's none of my business. Just made a little comment :)
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Fair enough, however its weird how you are comfortable using ostaine/LGD or what ever other research chemical with only a miniscule fraction of research behind them compared to SERMs. But what you don't know/ isn't yet reseached doesn't hurt you right?
 
SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

I know it's been discussed but can someone remind me about the safety of women and SARMs? Ostarine specifically? I know YatesWifey04 and love2liftkat have both run it.
However I read in one place that ostarine mutates sperm, and once you cease usage the mutated sperm eventually clears out and you're good to go. However, if that effect transfers to women as well, that could potentially cause long term damage because they only have a certain number of eggs that they produce in their lifetime. Does anyone have any info on this?
I can't find anything anywhere, but I would like to know more about it.
 
BamBam0319 said:
I know it's been discussed but can someone remind me about the safety of women and SARMs? Ostarine specifically? I know YatesWifey04 and love2liftkat have both run it.
However I read in one place that ostarine mutates sperm, and once you cease usage the mutated sperm eventually clears out and you're good to go. However, if that effect transfers to women as well, that could potentially cause long term damage because they only have a certain number of eggs that they produce in their lifetime. Does anyone have any info on this?
I can't find anything anywhere, but I would like to know more about it.
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I think the general concensus is that if women want children then don't use osta or any other sarm.
 
BamBam0319 said:
I know it's been discussed but can someone remind me about the safety of women and SARMs? Ostarine specifically? I know YatesWifey04 and love2liftkat have both run it.
However I read in one place that ostarine mutates sperm, and once you cease usage the mutated sperm eventually clears out and you're good to go. However, if that effect transfers to women as well, that could potentially cause long term damage because they only have a certain number of eggs that they produce in their lifetime. Does anyone have any info on this?
I can't find anything anywhere, but I would like to know more about it.
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What yates84 said. We are done having children, and Kat was/is too. So, that aspect was not a concern for us. However, if the women is still of child barring age & wants children it is advised she not use it, as it can cause fertility issues.
 
My wife starts second run of Osta next week. She's going to run it at 10 throughout this time.

We are done having kids so not a concern.
 
NoAddedHmones said:
Fair enough, however its weird how you are comfortable using ostaine/LGD or what ever other research chemical with only a miniscule fraction of research behind them compared to SERMs. But what you don't know/ isn't yet reseached doesn't hurt you right?
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Sanmarino, you seem to provide some very good info and knowledge, but if you have ever used a sarm I would have to agree with noaddedhormones here. By no means am I trying to start an argument here but noaddedhormones makes a lot of sense and a very valid point.
 
BamBam0319 said:
I know it's been discussed but can someone remind me about the safety of women and SARMs? Ostarine specifically? I know YatesWifey04 and love2liftkat have both run it.
However I read in one place that ostarine mutates sperm, and once you cease usage the mutated sperm eventually clears out and you're good to go. However, if that effect transfers to women as well, that could potentially cause long term damage because they only have a certain number of eggs that they produce in their lifetime. Does anyone have any info on this?
I can't find anything anywhere, but I would like to know more about it.
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It was stated that it is a bicalutamide derivative for what it is worth. Not sure if this was the thread you read but I did remember reading it there after doing some research if my own for an osta cycle for my wife.
 
Chrisko said:
Invalid Link Removed

It was stated that it is a bicalutamide derivative for what it is worth. Not sure if this was the thread you read but I did remember reading it there after doing some research if my own for an osta cycle for my wife.
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That may have been where I saw it. It looks familiar.
My doubts arise because often slight variations in chemical structures COMPLETELY change the function and effects of a compound from its parent compound.
However, the slightest possibility of damaging one's ovaries or eggs immediately turns me off from recommending it to any girl still expecting to become a mother in the future.
 
1 week in on a
OL legend 4/4/4/8/8/8/8/8
OL Eliminate 4/4/4/4/4/4/4/4

main goal is to build some muscle but also lose my pot belly.

is it too much to take an EC stack as well?

1 week in and my appetite is already stronger i feel.

will an EC stack be overkill
 
JohnJJ said:
1 week in on a
OL legend 4/4/4/8/8/8/8/8
OL Eliminate 4/4/4/4/4/4/4/4

main goal is to build some muscle but also lose my pot belly.

is it too much to take an EC stack as well?

1 week in and my appetite is already stronger i feel.

will an EC stack be overkill
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Overkill in what sense? if it controls you ability to eat at your desired macros, then why not?
 
NoAddedHmones said:
Overkill in what sense? if it controls you ability to eat at your desired macros, then why not?
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i guess because i'm also doing sprint 2x a week. maybe not taking ec on sprint days will help mitigate most risk
 
NoAddedHmones said:
Fair enough, however its weird how you are comfortable using ostaine/LGD or what ever other research chemical with only a miniscule fraction of research behind them compared to SERMs. But what you don't know/ isn't yet reseached doesn't hurt you right?
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Yes, this is unfortunately the attitude of many many user.
I'm using SARM max. twice a year. Have to wait until spring 2016 to research it again.
 
NoAddedHmones said:
Fair enough, however its weird how you are comfortable using ostaine/LGD or what ever other research chemical with only a miniscule fraction of research behind them compared to SERMs. But what you don't know/ isn't yet reseached doesn't hurt you right?
Click to expand...

Yes, this is unfortunately the attitude of many many user.
I'm using SARM max. twice a year. Have to wait until spring 2016 to research it again.
 
NoAddedHmones said:
What risk? Increased performance on your sprints. Just use a dosage that doesnt fk with ur BP
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^^^this. Just watch your bp and don't go overboard.
 
sanmarino said:
Every drug which isn't needed is drug abuse. I don't think you need SARM or SERM officially :)

It's your good right to think or act in the way you like. I only mentioned it because I red a lot, there were used like smarties.
I personally would never use SERM until they are absolutely necessary.

I hope you all know what you are doing ;) But that's none of my business. Just made a little comment :)
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Likewise, I am no fan of nolva & clomid & haven't yet had to use them (I do keep nolva handy just in case). Each to their own, I respect people's choices especially when they are informed ones.

Let's not forget there are SERM alternatives for the naturally inclined:
1) DIM (or I3C). I know often stacked with Resveratrol, but not in the products I've used.
2) Calcium-d-glucarate is beneficial for aiding the elimination of estrogen (waste) from the liver.

For those who can't get or don't wish to use pharma type SERMs, priming for a cycle with (products containing) these compounds and running them through to PCT can go a long way to alleviating any potential estrogen related issues. I find it makes for an easier transition to PCT.
 
Dma378 said:
My wife starts second run of Osta next week. She's going to run it at 10 throughout this time.

We are done having kids so not a concern.
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Let us know how she likes the 10mg throughout. I'm at 10 now. So, at the start of week 5 I bumped the Osta up to 10mg & am still on the RAD at 8mg. I haven't noticed any negative sides yet. I've really enjoyed this cycle so far!!
 
Chrisko said:
If you don't mind me asking, how did her first run go? I know Kat mentioned that she loved it.
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YatesWifey04 said:
Let us know how she likes the 10mg throughout. I'm at 10 now. So, at the start of week 5 I bumped the Osta up to 10mg & am still on the RAD at 8mg. I haven't noticed any negative sides yet. I've really enjoyed this cycle so far!!
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She really enjoyed her first run. It went: 5/5/5/5/10/10

She got strong, lost some BF, and really changed her overall body comp. She tells me the other day she was tired of not being as strong, she's ready for another round of "performance enhancement" Her exact words LOL!!

Pretty freaking cute.
 
Dma378 said:
She really enjoyed her first run. It went: 5/5/5/5/10/10

She got strong, lost some BF, and really changed her overall body comp. She tells me the other day she was tired of not being as strong, she's ready for another round of "performance enhancement" Her exact words LOL!!

Pretty freaking cute.
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yates84 likes when I talk like that too. Heck, he just likes when we talk supps period. ;)

My current cycle set-up is....
RAD 4/4/8/8/8/8
Osta 5/5 /5/5/10/10/10/10

I'm in the end of week 5 & have seen some nice improvements in strength & body comp. I hit a new PR almost every power day. I love it.
 
YatesWifey04 said:
yates84 likes when I talk like that too. Heck, he just likes when we talk supps period. ;)

My current cycle set-up is....
RAD 4/4/8/8/8/8
Osta 5/5 /5/5/10/10/10/10

I'm in the end of week 5 & have seen some nice improvements in strength & body comp. I hit a new PR almost every power day. I love it.
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Awesome!! I love my tool-wife too. Perfect for this tool right here.
 
I'm loving the info on the female side of Sarms.

I'm on week 5 of a Mass GH cycle ( which happens to be my first cycle of any kind ) and I am absolutely loving it. I've already got my future second cycle delivered and threw in a couple bottles of EnduraShred. I was going to save it for a future run for myself, but now I'm thinking maybe I should offer it to my wife. That would be very selfless of me no? ;)
 
HardB0iled said:
I'm loving the info on the female side of Sarms.

I'm on week 5 of a Mass GH cycle ( which happens to be my first cycle of any kind ) and I am absolutely loving it. I've already got my future second cycle delivered and threw in a couple bottles of EnduraShred. I was going to save it for a future run for myself, but now I'm thinking maybe I should offer it to my wife. That would be very selfless of me no? ;)
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Nothing wrong with that if your wife has been training for a while and is ready to take it to the next level. Just make sure she fully understands what exactly she is taking and what to expect. This thread would be a good starting point for her ;)
 
yates84 said:
Nothing wrong with that if your wife has been training for a while and is ready to take it to the next level. Just make sure she fully understands what exactly she is taking and what to expect. This thread would be a good starting point for her ;)
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I agree! Although I have the resident guru living with me, I still do my own research on what I'm choosing to put in my body!!
 
cheeky1 said:
Let's not forget there are SERM alternatives for the naturally inclined:

2) Calcium-d-glucarate is beneficial for aiding the elimination of estrogen (waste) from the liver.
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I did some research on C-D-G a while ago after I saw it in some Anti-E products. The problem is that Testosterone (and all steroid hormones in the body) is/are also glucuronidated. That means T will follow E right out of the body.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
I did some research on C-D-G a while ago after I saw it in some Anti-E products. The problem is that Testosterone (and all steroid hormones in the body) is/are also glucuronidated. That means T will follow E right out of the body.
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That's not cool!
 
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