Beginners Recomp Stack - What would you recommend?

Zyzz2.0

Zyzz2.0

New member
Never ever ran anything. Been lifting a few years(basically ****arounditis pump **** the first 2 and made no gains, and then focusing more on strength 5x5 in the last year), and want to take things to the next level. I am thinking Ep1c Unleashed + Str3ngth at the same time, while eating at maintenance calories could give me some nice lean gains while dropping the fat that I need to lose (never have had shredded abs, despite the hardwork/effort/research/implementation.).

If you guys have any input or recommendations, I'd love to hear it! To be honest, my stats are quite bull****, especially for 3-4 years. 6ft, 185lbs, 36inch waist, 14 inch arms(fuaaaaaaark :'( ), 41-42 inch chest last I checked. Blah.

Thought of running a clen or tren like PH to get the results I want, but it seems the OL supps are more than promising. I basically want to drop 10-15lbs, and I think I'd be where I need to. Then lean bulk from there.

Thoughts, input, advice, greatly appreciated! Spoke a bit with Yates about the OL stuff, but wanted more opinions. Thanks!
 
Natty supps wont do that much imo..i ran epistane as my first cycle for 4 weeks and gained 15.5lbs, armed went up .75in. Honestly though, I kinda wish I went with halodrol despite it being less dry because with epi you risk rebound gyno
 
You should start with creatine.
 
Supplements aren't going to help you cut much at all though, if you want to lose bodyfat your going to have to lower your calories and get yo arse on a treadmill, srs. I took epistane at maintenance calories and bodyfat stayed the same
 
The Yolkster said:
Supplements aren't going to help you cut much at all though, if you want to lose bodyfat your going to have to lower your calories and get yo arse on a treadmill, srs. I took epistane at maintenance calories and bodyfat stayed the same
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Been there, done that dude. i reach the same plateau time and time again. Lowest I can ever get is 185. Even if I do some stupid stoooopid calorie restricting, even Keto(or every other "diet" from IF to, carb cycling, high carb low carb, high fat low fat etc etc), HIIT 2-3 times a week, no HIIT and just walking 2-3 times a week, walking everyday, or HIIT everyday 185 is the sticking point and never goes down. Maybe some definition on the stomach but never ripped. I've tried every possible way, but the aesthetics refuse to appear. Even reverse dieted back up to maintenance and above, for like 4 months - tried to cut again...185. FML.
 
Zyzz2.0 said:
21. Started at 17. How I wish I could go back and focus on strength those first 2 years, lol.
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whats stopping you from doing that now? you're not even in teh prime of your lifting career. Stop messing up and looking for an easy answer and put the work in! Obviously it wouldve been ideal to start from the beginning but theres no reason not to start today and be better tomorrow.
 
booneman77 said:
whats stopping you from doing that now? you're not even in teh prime of your lifting career. Stop messing up and looking for an easy answer and put the work in! Obviously it wouldve been ideal to start from the beginning but theres no reason not to start today and be better tomorrow.
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I am doing that now, and have been for the last 2 years buddy :) Not looking for an easy answer, just a push you could say. Typical response from someone asking about PH's, but whatever. I dont cheat on the diet(track calories/macros and rarely even eat "dirty" foods or sweets), I train correctly focusing on the 5 rep range on the compound lifts, and do cardio accordingly. Not sure how you think I am messing up, but if you have actual advice, I'm open to it. If you think Im just a twat looking for an "easy way out", then I dont know what to tell you :) I understand you guys probably get a lot of noobie wieners on here asking "BRUH HOW DO I GET BIG AND GET THA SHREDZ FAST,EAT WHATEVER I WANT AND FOLLOW MAGAZINE WORKOUTS" but Im not that guy.
 
Zyzz2.0 said:
I am doing that now, and have been for the last 2 years buddy :) Not looking for an easy answer, just a push you could say. Typical response from someone asking about PH's, but whatever. I dont cheat on the diet(track calories/macros and rarely even eat "dirty" foods or sweets), I train correctly focusing on the 5 rep range on the compound lifts, and do cardio accordingly. Not sure how you think I am messing up, but if you have actual advice, I'm open to it. If you think Im just a twat looking for an "easy way out", then I dont know what to tell you :) I understand you guys probably get a lot of noobie wieners on here asking "BRUH HOW DO I GET BIG AND GET THA SHREDZ FAST,EAT WHATEVER I WANT AND FOLLOW MAGAZINE WORKOUTS" but Im not that guy.
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fair enough, just not what i gathered from "I wish I could...".

I always suggest abe+xgels as the ultimate natty stack. it fits any goal (cut/recomp/bulk) and gives solid results for a non hormonal.

If dead set on a ph/sarm... LGD has been getting some decent reviews (still pretty new tho), DMZ/Msten are always monsters for packing on some lean mass (assuming you can find them - PHW supps will be carrying a cool new brand called DLN taht has sublingual version of DMZ in a week or so), or trest (TD is prob best, but caps will do you well also)

My big concern is more around what you said about your diet... It literally a physical impossiblity to not lose weight/fat if you're in enough of a deficit so when you said that you "cant get past 185 no matter what", thats a red flag... eventually we weould all wither away and die if cals are too low so I ahve to think that either you're not tracking as well as you think, or simply not low enough on the cals (or enough energy expenditure)
 
OP - For what it's worth, I ran BPS Combustion alongside some generic raspberry ketones for 2 months at maintenance cal's, likely above maintenance 1/3rd of the time, and lost 10lbs. I wasn't even truly trying to lose that much, but did. All I did was that, plus add more cardio in the form of supersets, giant sets, circuits, etc.

The solution doesn't always have to be very complex.
 
booneman77 said:
fair enough, just not what i gathered from "I wish I could...".

I always suggest abe+xgels as the ultimate natty stack. it fits any goal (cut/recomp/bulk) and gives solid results for a non hormonal.

If dead set on a ph/sarm... LGD has been getting some decent reviews (still pretty new tho), DMZ/Msten are always monsters for packing on some lean mass (assuming you can find them - PHW supps will be carrying a cool new brand called DLN taht has sublingual version of DMZ in a week or so), or trest (TD is prob best, but caps will do you well also)

My big concern is more around what you said about your diet... It literally a physical impossiblity to not lose weight/fat if you're in enough of a deficit so when you said that you "cant get past 185 no matter what", thats a red flag... eventually we weould all wither away and die if cals are too low so I ahve to think that either you're not tracking as well as you think, or simply not low enough on the cals (or enough energy expenditure)
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Thanks for the info, pal. Appreciated.

I'm thinking it's a metabolic damage thing. I was losing weight steadily for about 11 weeks in a deficit and then it started to stall(all time lowest weigh in was like 182 and a 1/2, 35.5" waist, and eating 18 to 1900 cals(absolute helllll), HIIT 3 times a week(400cals each)). On maintenance the last to weeks, no cardio, shot back up to 185 and the 36"w as usual. Going to go back to diet mode on Monday and see how the next few weeks treat me now that I've been stocked up on more carbs/cals, have more energy etc. Goal is 180 or less by Dec. If not, I'll just get focus on getting big with all the food that comes with Xmas. Whether I'll hop on something for that or not, Im not really sure.
 
Gutterpump said:
OP - For what it's worth, I ran BPS Combustion alongside some generic raspberry ketones for 2 months at maintenance cal's, likely above maintenance 1/3rd of the time, and lost 10lbs. I wasn't even truly trying to lose that much, but did. All I did was that, plus add more cardio in the form of supersets, giant sets, circuits, etc.

The solution doesn't always have to be very complex.
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That's actually pretty badass, dude! I took Legion's fat burning stack(Phoenix and Forge) for a few weeks and lowest I could get was 182, then it stalled. Was doing cardio 3 times a week as well. Will keep the BPS Combustion thing in mind.
 
Exotherm + Incinderine is an amazing fat blasting stack from BLR. Several logs with great results around here. If you can't find em let me know and I can link you if you're interested.
 
Zyzz2.0 said:
The one in the book with some slight variations. Chest, back, and shoulder day are verbatim of his "Ultimate *all body parts mentioned above* workout" articles.
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Can you link the actual weekly routine? Like, exactly what youre doing...
 
NewAgeMayan said:
Can you link the actual weekly routine? Like, exactly what youre doing...
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muscleforlifeDOTcom/chest-workout-best-chest-exercises/
muscleforlifeDOTcom/best-arm-exercises/
muscleforlifeDOTcom/best-shoulder-workout/
muscleforlifeDOTcom/best-back-exercises/
muscleforlifeDOTcom/best-legs-exercises/

Scroll down and you can see the routine listed out for each.

EDIT: Apologies for the links, I cant post links yet until 100 posts.
 
Zyzz2.0 said:
muscleforlifeDOTcom/chest-workout-best-chest-exercises/
muscleforlifeDOTcom/best-arm-exercises/
muscleforlifeDOTcom/best-shoulder-workout/
muscleforlifeDOTcom/best-back-exercises/
muscleforlifeDOTcom/best-legs-exercises/

Scroll down and you can see the routine listed out for each.

EDIT: Apologies for the links, I cant post links yet until 100 posts.
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Good idea !!!
 
Mon: Chest
Tuesday: Back (20 Min HIIT added if Cutting)
Wednesday: Shoulders
Thursday: Legs (20 Min HIIT added if Cutting)
Friday: Either rest if I am too tired from work the day before(manual labor on Thursdays, aka hell) or Arms
Saturday: Depending if I took the Friday as a rest, I would do Arms on Sat, or if I did Arms on Fri this is a rest
Sunday: Rest fully or 20 min HIIT cardio 1 on 1 off style.
 
Zyzz2.0 said:
Mon: Chest
Tuesday: Back
Wednesday: Shoulders
Thursday: Legs
Friday: Either rest if I am too tired from work the day before(manual labor on Thursdays, aka hell) or Arms
Saturday: Depending if I took the Friday as a rest, I would do Arms on Sat, or if I did Arms on Fri this is a rest
Sunday: Rest fully or 20 min HIIT cardio 1 on 1 off style.
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Why are you doing such low frequency? Matthews has a PPL split, what made you choose the one you are doing?
 
NewAgeMayan said:
Why are you doing such low frequency? Matthews has a PPL split, what made you choose the one you are doing?
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Basically because I found that this is one of, if not the only way, I can actually build strength and get my compounds to go up every 1-2 weeks, even while dieting. Incline bench and seated OHP were stubborn as hell for me when I trained them about twice a week, or when I trained them with other body parts on the same day. Now I can pretty much increase 5lbs every 2 weeks and make those strength gains. Do you have other suggestions for a better routine to do when cutting?
 
Zyzz2.0 said:
Basically because I found that this is one of, if not the only way, I can actually build strength and get my compounds to go up every 1-2 weeks, even while dieting. Incline bench and seated OHP were stubborn as hell for me when I trained them about twice a week, or when I trained them with other body parts on the same day. Now I can pretty much increase 5lbs every 2 weeks and make those strength gains. Do you have other suggestions for a better routine to do when cutting?
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Well you were lamenting lack of size...you can continue as you are or change what youre doing and try out something else.


What is your experience with high frequency? Like, fullbody 4+ times per wk.
 
NewAgeMayan said:
Well you were lamenting lack of size...you can continue as you are or change what youre doing and try out something else.


What is your experience with high frequency? Like, fullbody 4+ times per wk.
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I have Joe Manganiello's book which has some really high volume stuff that I did for about a year. A Chest and Back day is like


Circuit 1:
Bench Press + Lat Pull Down Superset x 4:
Reps: 20, 15, 12, 10, 8, 5, 16

Circuit 2:
Incline DB Bench + One Arm Dumbell Row Superset x4
Reps: 15

Circuit 3:
Pec Deck or Flyes + Low Cable Row Superset x4
Reps: 10

Done
_____

Tuesday is Legs and Tri's, Weds is Delts and Bi's, all with similar circuits and rep ranges and then repeat on Thurs(Chest Back), Fri(Legs Tris), Sat(Delts Bis)different exercises though.
 
Nah man, Im talking high frequency, like training each bodypart each session at least 4x per week...have you tried training, say, chest 5x per week?

The ideas Im hinting at here involve foregoing the low freq single factor protocols in favor of dual factor high frequency. So instead of blasting chest once per week with lots of volume crammed into one bout, you train it more frequently with less session volume.
 
NewAgeMayan said:
Nah man, Im talking high frequency, like training each bodypart each session at least 4x per week...have you tried training, say, chest 5x per week?

The ideas Im hinting at here involve foregoing the low freq single factor protocols in favor of dual factor high frequency. So instead of blasting chest once per week with lots of volume crammed into one bout, you train it more frequently with less session volume.
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Interesting, i think I heard Rusty Moore talk about something like this in the past. I shall look into it!
 
Zyzz2.0 said:
Interesting, i think I heard Rusty Moore talk about something like this in the past. I shall look into it!
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Do. I wasted so much time running low frequency programs, because I had been convinced that high freq splits would lead to overtraining. Ditching the single factor stuff was the best move I made.

The key is to experiment with different protocols over time. You may end up finding high frequency not as beneficial as the low freq you been doing...you may find it better. Either way you are better off.
 
NewAgeMayan said:
Do. I wasted so much time running low frequency programs, because I had been convinced that high freq splits would lead to overtraining. Ditching the single factor stuff was the best move I made.

The key is to experiment with different protocols over time. You may end up finding high frequency not as beneficial as the low freq you been doing...you may find it better. Either way you are better off.
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Very true. Thank you brother! I am growing to really appreciate this forum, really thankful I found it, and thankful for the helpful community. Thanks again buddy.
 
I see you are following the Mike Mathews program, cool, I am a fan of his. Haven't you read his article on metabolism? Basically what you have done is too much of a cal restriction for too long and crashed you metabolism. You must reset it by increasing your cals back to maintenance (or above) for a while and then restrict cals (but not as low this time) for a few weeks. In a nut shell... shorter cut cycles
 
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