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Amazon bans the sale of lines that are repeat FDA offenders

Chuck Diesel said:
Yeah no doubt, its not to change anything. Its more like what I said, If you had a used car dealership, and all this stuff came up w Volvo CEOs rigging their cars to pass emissions when they actually was bogus AF, would you still sell Volvo? Its more up to the retailer to sell whatever they want based on what they think is ethical.
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That's the problem. What is ethical today might not be tomorrow. The media and top of the world control everything. Personally I feel if you want to take something who the hell am I to say you can't or rather does it really effect you?
 
ericool007 said:
wasnt scifit making Kre-alkalyn but it was tested to really just be plain creatine mono, honestly mono is better anyways but i think it created trust issues.
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What do you think Kre-Alkalyn is?

Kre-Alkalyn is literally:

-Creatine Monohydrate
-Enough soda ash to lower the PH of the solution.
 
De__eB said:
What do you think Kre-Alkalyn is?

Kre-Alkalyn is literally:

-Creatine Monohydrate
-Enough soda ash to lower the PH of the solution.
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Yeah 2g of krealk has abt like 800mg of creatine mono. I read that in the pantent documents for it yrs ago
 
NurseGray said:
That's the problem. What is ethical today might not be tomorrow. The media and top of the world control everything. Personally I feel if you want to take something who the hell am I to say you can't or rather does it really effect you?
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DIDN'T YOU GET THAT E-MAIL.....there are no ethics today.
 
NurseGray said:
That's the problem. What is ethical today might not be tomorrow. The media and top of the world control everything. Personally I feel if you want to take something who the hell am I to say you can't or rather does it really effect you?
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Its not an access issue its a liability issue. There's general liability and proxy liability. Like a dope dealer dnt manufacturer coke but take to much and die ur family can sue the drug dealer. They dnt sue the country of Columbia
 
ericool007 said:
most sports supplements on amazon are always overpriced anyways at least the ones i buy i can find cheaper on other sites. there are some good herbs and probiotics and stuff you can find cheap but nothing thats going to be made by these companies or be on a banned list anyways.
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What?. Really?. You've got to learn how to surf the web better.
 
I just literally saw on ABC news 7 in Chicago at the gym that GNC facing some big lawsuit for selling adulterated supplements. So industry wide something is going on.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
I just literally saw on ABC news 7 in Chicago at the gym that GNC facing some big lawsuit for selling adulterated supplements. So industry wide something is going on.
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GNC prices are insane!!!
 
Chuck Diesel said:
Its not an access issue its a liability issue. There's general liability and proxy liability. Like a dope dealer dnt manufacturer coke but take to much and die ur family can sue the drug dealer. They dnt sue the country of Columbia
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See this is what i was saying abt general liability

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The state of Oregon is suing GNC for retailing Pikatropin....i also thing picatropin is in a crap load of preworkouts
 
thebigt said:
lol...the point is GNC's prices are insane....no love for them!!!!
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Haha i use 2 work for them part time when i was in the military. Some ppl wanna pay retail. They feel its better quality if they pay suggested retail. Look at shoe stores. Shoes hella cheap on eastbay versus in the mall. Ppl still shop at the mall. Same w the mall versus online or the outlet mall.
 
thebigt said:
lol...the point is GNC's prices are insane....no love for them!!!!
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Not only that but I honestly feel I haven't met one person working at that store that even remotely know s what they are talking about!
 
De__eB said:
What do you think Kre-Alkalyn is?

Kre-Alkalyn is literally:

-Creatine Monohydrate
-Enough soda ash to lower the PH of the solution.
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well yea but i mean i remember them getting in trouble from the actual patent holder because they were not authorized to sell it.
im not debating what it is we know its just baking soda and creatine
 
T-Bone said:
What?. Really?. You've got to learn how to surf the web better.
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I have amazon prime and for what I buy SNS and PES products i find them a lot cheaper on other sites with better discount codes too. trust me i always check prime first for the free shipping.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
Guess it's kind of like when people try suing bars for drunk drivers.
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Nah thats dif bc theres a thing in law that means like thats a "known" result. Unless its underage drinking. Similar to if u buy a chain saw and accidently cut ur arm off. They gonna say its common knowledge a chain saw will cut ur arm off. Also w supplements usually its no harm that is done. Its that its marked a "dietary supplement."
 
Chuck Diesel said:
See this is what i was saying abt general liability

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The state of Oregon is suing GNC for retailing Pikatropin....i also thing picatropin is in a crap load of preworkouts
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Not just for picamilon but also for beta-methylphenylethylamine and supposdly lost up to 800 million in stock value
 
Adizzle1 said:
Not just for picamilon but also for beta-methylphenylethylamine and supposdly lost up to 800 million in stock value
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Who GNC lost that value?? Damn. Yeah i didnt mention BMPEA bc thats been banned. They shouldn't have nothing w that in there.
 
Some companies don't care about the consumer beyond wanting them to buy product. I wonder about bettlenut root. Looks like that's creeping into supplements and it's addictive. It hasn't been safe in tests.
 
ahawk01 said:
Some companies don't care about the consumer beyond wanting them to buy product. I wonder about bettlenut root. Looks like that's creeping into supplements and it's addictive. It hasn't been safe in tests.
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Bettle nut root? Never heard of it. But if its in preworkouts prob got some stim in it thats gonna b banned soon.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
Bettle nut root? Never heard of it. But if its in preworkouts prob got some stim in it thats gonna b banned soon.
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From what I have read it is a known carcinogen that has been linked to cancer. It is a form of a stim. It is used in other countries similar to tobacco
 
LLN said:
Info online, getting caught in the news, conversations/chats with people who've worked in the industry, etc.

Protein I'm not so worried out. I get 95% plus of my protein from whole foods and if I get some extra sugar thrown into my whey, it's only damaging to my wallet not my health; unlike what could be hiding in those other types of products I previously mentioned.
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Little naive, don't you think? What makes you think protein powders are immune to being spiked with something not on the label. Adding a little "extra" to the container to help customers get great results is good for business. Just a thought.
 
NurseGray said:
From what I have read it is a known carcinogen that has been linked to cancer. It is a form of a stim. It is used in other countries similar to tobacco
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Think it's arecoline something like that. Putting a stim that's addictive that has a chance to cause cancer is crazy even when one of the companies is donating some money to charity.
 
pcn said:
Little naive, don't you think? What makes you think protein powders are immune to being spiked with something not on the label. Adding a little "extra" to the container to help customers get great results is good for business. Just a thought.
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Agreed. Just because you buy your protein at whole foods doesn't mean it's legit protein.
 
ahawk01 said:
Think it's arecoline something like that. Putting a stim that's addictive that has a chance to cause cancer is crazy even when one of the companies is donating some money to charity.
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Arecoline Hydrobromide (ArcoFuel) (Betel Nut Extract)

Well known cancer causing carcinogen

In 2004, The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) published an extremely well-developed research paper on the matter, “Betel Quid and Areca-Nut Chewing”, where they mention the word “cancer” 716 times, “carcinogen” 109 times, “tumor” or “tumour” 179 times, and “carcinoma” 209 times.[2] It cites literally hundreds of sources, and also mentions “arecoline” 242 times, so they’re not just talking about betel nut here.

International Agency for Research on Cancer; “Betel-Quid and Areca-Nut Chewing”; IARC Monographs on the Evaluation of Carcinogenic Risks to Humans; Volume 85; 2004; Retrieved from Invalid Link Removed
 
ahawk01 said:
Think it's arecoline something like that. Putting a stim that's addictive that has a chance to cause cancer is crazy even when one of the companies is donating some money to charity.
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Oh yeah. I rem Bettle nut. I had research on that 10 yrs ago. It is addictive.
 
Supplement sales account for a VERY small percentage of Amazon's sales so from a business standpoint it doesn't make sense to carry products that could cost them money in a lawsuit. The dropped Cycle Assist a year ago because they said it promoted steroid use....even though there are other products which have the same ingreds and every ingred in CA can be purchased separately on Amazon. :(
 
^^^ true
 
pcn said:
Little naive, don't you think? What makes you think protein powders are immune to being spiked with something not on the label. Adding a little "extra" to the container to help customers get great results is good for business. Just a thought.
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Naive isn't the right term. Anything is possible. The point is where to draw the line that separates too risky vs. not products. Pushing that line so that it covers all products is paranoid, not fitting to the facts, and ultimately something which makes precaution a cripling concept.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
Guess it's kind of like when people try suing bars for drunk drivers.
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It's not try, they do. Many states have dram shop laws that hold the provider of alcohol to a visibly intoxicated person partly negligent. They're not totally at fault obviously, but they are typically apportioned a part of the negligence and have to pay.

This isn't new, it's well established case law. The supplement companies and providers can theoretically be held liable through product liability (tort or contract).

So amazon, x company, and their raws source could all be sued.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
Nah thats dif bc theres a thing in law that means like thats a "known" result. Unless its underage drinking. Similar to if u buy a chain saw and accidently cut ur arm off. They gonna say its common knowledge a chain saw will cut ur arm off. Also w supplements usually its no harm that is done. Its that its marked a "dietary supplement."
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You're thinking of "assumption of the risk." It wouldn't apply to supplements. Also, companies get sued all the time for accidents like a chainsaw cutting off someone's arms and they lose regularly. It's a complex field of law and juries are incredibly stupid. I've seen people sue for cutting their fingers off with a blender and winning a lawsuit for improper warnings.
 
mechka_grizli said:
Whole foods as in chicken, beef, fish etc. Not the store
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Haha well ****. No better foot in mouth than that. I'll blame it on too many stims that day!
 
jamesm11 said:
You're thinking of "assumption of the risk." It wouldn't apply to supplements. Also, companies get sued all the time for accidents like a chainsaw cutting off someone's arms and they lose regularly. It's a complex field of law and juries are incredibly stupid. I've seen people sue for cutting their fingers off with a blender and winning a lawsuit for improper warnings.
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It depends on where you live and how your tort law is. Some states are liberal with torts and allow such lawsuits. Some will throw that out on a MSJ without a hearing.

Further, a lot of companies settle those cases in order to prevent bad PR and because a law suit is expensive. The settlement agreement generally has a non disclosure clause. Company X pays 1/2 the amount they would have at trial and they have a prima facia case to sue you if you decide to tell the media.
 
Woody said:
It depends on where you live and how your tort law is. Some states are liberal with torts and allow such lawsuits. Some will throw that out on a MSJ without a hearing.

Further, a lot of companies settle those cases in order to prevent bad PR and because a law suit is expensive. The settlement agreement generally has a non disclosure clause. Company X pays 1/2 the amount they would have at trial and they have a prima facia case to sue you if you decide to tell the media.
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Yeah, 98% settles so we don't see a lot. I've been through several and they're a pain in the ass. I'm licensed in MA and NY, so I can only comment on those, but they're VERY liberal for lawsuits on things like this.
 
Woody said:
It depends on where you live and how your tort law is. Some states are liberal with torts and allow such lawsuits. Some will throw that out on a MSJ without a hearing.

Further, a lot of companies settle those cases in order to prevent bad PR and because a law suit is expensive. The settlement agreement generally has a non disclosure clause. Company X pays 1/2 the amount they would have at trial and they have a prima facia case to sue you if you decide to tell the media.
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I suspect a lot of the protein companies are doing this. Somebody sued ProSupps for spiking, then later they withdrew the complaint voluntarily. Not a peep anywhere about it.
 
jamesm11 said:
Yeah, 98% settles so we don't see a lot. I've been through several and they're a pain in the ass. I'm licensed in MA and NY, so I can only comment on those, but they're VERY liberal for lawsuits on things like this.
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I'm soon to be licensed in Texas. Tort reform is still an ongoing battle.
 
jamesm11 said:
You're thinking of "assumption of the risk." It wouldn't apply to supplements. Also, companies get sued all the time for accidents like a chainsaw cutting off someone's arms and they lose regularly. It's a complex field of law and juries are incredibly stupid. I've seen people sue for cutting their fingers off with a blender and winning a lawsuit for improper warnings.
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A blender is a little dif to me. But it all depends on the attorney and the cases referenced. The warrning thing reminds me of the hot coffee McDonald's case. I wasnt saying assumption of the risk applies to supplements.
 
Assumption of risk applies to Chainsaws
 
So I stumbled on this, pretty much a list of most FDA warnings and what was found in the product. A lot of this is before cGMPs were enforced so companies were pretty much just probably sending manufactures whatever material they wanted in their products and they were making it no questions asked. I know this is still possible because GMPs do not have anything to do with whats actually in the product as in testing, it is more for record keeping like a food HACCP plan.

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Looks like viagra in wiener pills and sibutramine in thermos/energy products are the biggest offenders.

Sort by date, desc order for most recent.

All the tainted boner pills that people should "stay away" from:

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Really surprised to see a few of those brands on there... Im a young guy so anything spiked could have some serious potential to mess me up and Ive used a few of those brands and trusted a few of those brands.. Not sure what they had in them but Im hoping nothing too crazy.
 
TyMan14 said:
Really surprised to see a few of those brands on there... Im a young guy so anything spiked could have some serious potential to mess me up and Ive used a few of those brands and trusted a few of those brands.. Not sure what they had in them but Im hoping nothing too crazy.
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in all fairness many times it is nothing more than cross contamination with different products being made in same plant.
 
thebigt said:
in all fairness many times it is nothing more than cross contamination with different products being made in same plant.
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Cross contamination.....? That would mean non-GMP manufacturing procedures. The process of making supplements is so strict when done the right way....you cant "cross contaminate" viagra into a dietary supplement bc for one viagra shouldnt be in a dietary supplement manufacturing facility anyway. Its not like the 500mg tribulus capsules are testing positive for trace amounts of ginger.
 
This is basically what goes on thebigt

there are a few things companies are or were getting popped for:

1) Spiking, this is straight up putting something in the product not declared on the label. One of the biggest hustles
is adding creatine to whey protein. Why? BC besides caffeine, creatine is one of those "I see or feel something so its working"
ingredients. Plus creatine provides a lot of Nitrogen which spikes the "protein content" test. People take the protein, gain 3lbs or so
and be like "oh its working."

2) XYZ herb naturally contains, blabla. But it doesn't and whats found is the synthetic analog. A big one of these
that slide is Yohimbe Bark that contains Yohimbine, most of the time its Yohimbine HCL added. No one cares bc yohimbine HCL
technically isnt illegal.

3) Sprinkle in QRS. Joe blow makes "Jungle Love" Boner pills....then each one test positive for 3mg of some viagra analog.
Most of these products are contract manufactured in China.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
This is basically what goes on thebigt

there are a few things companies are or were getting popped for:

1) Spiking, this is straight up putting something in the product not declared on the label. One of the biggest hustles
is adding creatine to whey protein. Why? BC besides caffeine, creatine is one of those "I see or feel something so its working"
ingredients. Plus creatine provides a lot of Nitrogen which spikes the "protein content" test. People take the protein, gain 3lbs or so
and be like "oh its working."

2) XYZ herb naturally contains, blabla. But it doesn't and whats found is the synthetic analog. A big one of these
that slide is Yohimbe Bark that contains Yohimbine, most of the time its Yohimbine HCL added. No one cares bc yohimbine HCL
technically isnt illegal.

3) Sprinkle in QRS. Joe blow makes "Jungle Love" Boner pills....then each one test positive for 3mg of some viagra analog.
Most of these products are contract manufactured in China.
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I gotcha chuck...I know PALO ALTO got popped for it's aspire lineup...I beta tested it. I tried spree also, kinda figured something not natty was going on. also tried black ant, same thing...but dpol was ok, nothing seemed un-natural about it-at least to me...the dmaa stuff isn't hard to figure out why it's on there...and stuff like hdrol is obvious. out of all, I was really surprised to see dpol on there, I was trying to give purus the benefit of the doubt.
 
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