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SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

yates84 said:
So you think we just dropped our entire company over a hunch? Don't you think that there is a very good reason multiple companies are stopping production on these products? Maybe they know something that we don't?
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Well SARMS really wouldn't need to be banned. It is in no way, shape, or form legal to sell as a supplement. lol I think companies are getting out before **** hits the fan. Ha
 
hamdysayed said:
Lol ^^^, he probably can't get it now and using skepticism as an excuse !!![/QUOTE

Sarms here long before supplement companies and wouldn't suprise me if they are selling them long after. Checked usual suppliers and it is buisness as usual for now. If you truly Beleive they are hard to get all I can think is it must be your first day on the Internet. Lol
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BSL & OL pull out. Smaller companies like EPG still producing limited SARM products, predominately osta based. I'd say until a directive is issued for a cease all then the little guys will continue to flout this somewhat grey area...not approved yet not banned.

BSL has had the blowtorch put on them & OL has seen this, best avoid too much scrutiny & keep the nose clean with reputable & expanding businesses.

Sad thing is it didn't even take someone mega-dosing & getting hurt to get things heated, apparently just someone with a gripe. Not even the FDA got involved, or hasn't as yet, as far as i'm aware.
 
I wonder where the OL UK warehouse is.. I would camp out and raid the trash for all the bottles they throw out. If they even throw them out..
 
Jstrong20 said:
hamdysayed said:
Lol ^^^, he probably can't get it now and using skepticism as an excuse !!![/QUOTE

Sarms here long before supplement companies and wouldn't suprise me if they are selling them long after. Checked usual suppliers and it is buisness as usual for now. If you truly Beleive they are hard to get all I can think is it must be your first day on the Internet. Lol
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Must be yours if you believe non steroidial sarms have been around long.
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cheeky1 said:
BSL & OL pull out. Smaller companies like EPG still producing limited SARM products, predominately osta based. I'd say until a directive is issued for a cease all then the little guys will continue to flout this somewhat grey area...not approved yet not banned.

BSL has had the blowtorch put on them & OL has seen this, best avoid too much scrutiny & keep the nose clean with reputable & expanding businesses.

Sad thing is it didn't even take someone mega-dosing & getting hurt to get things heated, apparently just someone with a gripe. Not even the FDA got involved, or hasn't as yet, as far as i'm aware.
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I believe there are lawsuits pending (not OL) due to ostarine misuse/megadosing and resultant organ damage. How apparent/tenuous the causal relation between SARM and illness in these cases is I do not know.
 
NewAgeMayan said:
I believe there are lawsuits pending (not OL) due to ostarine misuse/megadosing and resultant organ damage. How apparent/tenuous the causal relation between SARM and illness in these cases is I do not know.
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I don't doubt the lawsuits, but I haven't seen any specifics regarding organ damage from mega dosing. Have you come across any links you can share?
 
kboxer7 said:
I don't doubt the lawsuits, but I haven't seen any specifics regarding organ damage from mega dosing. Have you come across any links you can share?
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Sorry, no. I came across a post about it elsewhere, by a trustworthy member. Again, I know no other details, there could well be underlying preexisting conditions.
 
Hey guys anyone have a tub of OL Conqu3r Ampd/demigod, decent flavour preferably :-P, they wanna sell?? Live in Ireland so its hard to get for a good price. Can't find it for less than 50e excluding shipping :/. Preworkouts aren't more than 30/35e delivered so this is a lot. Dying to try it tho!!!!
 
Shaner091 said:
Hey guys anyone have a tub of OL Conqu3r Ampd/demigod, decent flavour preferably :-P, they wanna sell?? Live in Ireland so its hard to get for a good price. Can't find it for less than 50e excluding shipping :/. Preworkouts aren't more than 30/35e delivered so this is a lot. Dying to try it tho!!!!
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Conqu3r amped costs me around 60$ usd to be delivered, it's not cheap but worth every penny. Put up a thread in the supp auction forum
 
Seriously?!?! Supps sound mad expensive where you are!! I'll stick one up and hope for the best so dude,, or maybe just sick it up and spend the 50e :/ dying to try it
 
Shaner091 said:
Seriously?!?! Supps sound mad expensive where you are!! I'll stick one up and hope for the best so dude,, or maybe just sick it up and spend the 50e :/ dying to try it
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I gotta order it from the uk, conqu3r amped isn't for sale in the us :(
 
yates84 said:
I gotta order it from the uk, conqu3r amped isn't for sale in the us :(
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**** man that explains a lot so!! Think I'll pull the trigger and do it!!
 
Awesome info you really seem to know your stuff when it comes to sarms. So I'm already one week in to LGD elite from BSL and have my pct and AI but I also have a vote of MK ULTRA. What would be your opinion if I were to stack the two? And what kind of dosing would you recommend? Thanks
 
808smash said:
Awesome info you really seem to know your stuff when it comes to sarms. So I'm already one week in to LGD elite from BSL and have my pct and AI but I also have a vote of MK ULTRA. What would be your opinion if I were to stack the two? And what kind of dosing would you recommend? Thanks
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The two stack excellent. What is the dosing per cap on the mk ultra?
 
808smash said:
10mg a cap. Directions say twice a day
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I would start out with one cap right before bed to assess your tolerance. After a few weeks/month at 10mg you can bump to 20mg a night. Definitely dose before bed unless you want to eat everything is sight.
 
Been trying to look into s4/andarine because the positive effects sound so awesome. But that potential for permanent toxicity because of the M1 metabolite has me aaabit concerned. Had there been extensive discussion on this somewhere already or what is everyone's thoughts on that?
 
GreenMachineX said:
Been trying to look into s4/andarine because the positive effects sound so awesome. But that potential for permanent toxicity because of the M1 metabolite has me aaabit concerned. Had there been extensive discussion on this somewhere already or what is everyone's thoughts on that?
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Never heard of any permanent toxicity, just the temporary vision sides associated with the m1 metabolite. Care to enlighten me with whatever info you already have? Very interested in this
 
sanmarino said:
I appreciate your response, Olympus Labs. I think, we are all respectul here, aren't we?
The effect of PH/DS is more or less possible to assess because of their chemical structure. They are basing on the cholesterole structure whereas all of the (known) SARM have its own (S4 and Ostarine has similarities because Ostarine is full based on Bicalutamide and S4 only partially). And here is the big problem: we (all, even the researcher) have no clue how the discussed stuff is going to work in the human body.

Let me give you a short example: S4 was cancelled for human trials because of the different NAT expression:



This means that it is unclear how S4 (and their metabolites) is mined in the human body due to the unpredictable effects of NAT (N-acetyltransferase) of the main degradation product of S4 called M1. NAT is an enzyme which plays an important role in drug metabolism. In addition, the researchers of GTx had to find that therefore these results can not be extrapolated to humans, the animal studies and therefore can be used for predicting the effect and the elimination of non-S4. Thus was S4 for clinical trials not suitable and was withdrawn from circulation.

There were probably a few more studies with S4 to the animals but the purposes served to examine this first SARM to effect further. S4 (Andarine) was therefore only the first SARM with actual androgenic effect which has proved on closer examination to be unsuitable for humans. Therefore, it has never been more than the three Phase I studies for Andarine 2003/2004. The 2004 planned Phase II study has been (highly probably) never started.

The problem with M1 is that it affects both the ocular receptor and the heart. In addition, the metabolite M1 can affect the RNA. Here are the DNA information copied (transcription) and this passed by the mRNA. It is now possible that the M1 the RNA in the eye can damage and the RNA can be passed on erroneous information. So it would be theoretically possible that the known side effects of S4 (night blindness, spots in vision, yellow vision) may be permanent.

Questions arise such as:
- If M1 in humans a negative effect on the (m)RNA has: how much is the number of erroneous information? -> The body is able to repair damaged DNA, but only limited (if I have not right in the head). It will probably arrive at the amount of damage.
- As long as the half-life is of Metabolites M1 in the human body? -> Plays probably also play a role in order to minimize the risk. One would have to speed up the rate of degradation of the metabolites.
- The extent to which the metabolites from S4 transmissible to humans? -> See the quoted text above and link: europepmc(dot)org/articles/pmc2039883

In short: S4 was big questionmark not only in the whole mechanism and the many studies with different results. After all, the transfer of "animal" results to humans is also very questionable (without wanting to play it down).

[oh gosh, that example was long, sorry for that :) ].

To be honest: I misinterpreted firstly the reason for such a thread. I thought, yates84 was constructing this thread to give full advice (!) how to abuse these drugs on a closed sticky. I didn't considered the other side - the controlled abuse of these substances to prevent the abusers life as good as possible. Would be glad if he can add on the starting page a warning instruction.

Good idea and glad to take part on this - finally invented - knowledge-collection-thread.

Yours sincerly

sanmarino
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This is the first part I read from this thread. Apparently M1 can also effect the heart as well...
 
GreenMachineX said:
This is the first part I read from this thread. Apparently M1 can also effect the heart as well...
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Tbh s4's effects on my eyes were enough for me to not look any further into the compound.
 
yates84 said:
I'm on 150mg of trest, androgenic effects are pretty strong lol
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Sounds awesome, but the cool thing about SARMs for me was I got great results, but didn't blow up dramatically and my liver/cholesterol didn't take a hit. Epiandro was awesome for me but ended up skyrocketing my test levels causing my TRT doc to wig out. Granted I don't know much about trest, but if it's a PH/AAS, it's gonna hit the lipids and liver a bit?
 
GreenMachineX said:
Sounds awesome, but the cool thing about SARMs for me was I got great results, but didn't blow up dramatically and my liver/cholesterol didn't take a hit. Epiandro was awesome for me but ended up skyrocketing my test levels causing my TRT doc to wig out. Granted I don't know much about trest, but if it's a PH/AAS, it's gonna hit the lipids and liver a bit?
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Definitely going to have a lot more side effects than sarms, estrogen sides can get interesting as well. If you're pleased with your results on sarms then I would keep using them and not give trest another thought. I'm sure a sarm that is a little more androgenic will hit the market so er or later.
 
yates84 said:
Definitely going to have a lot more side effects than sarms, estrogen sides can get interesting as well. If you're pleased with your results on sarms then I would keep using them and not give trest another thought. I'm sure a sarm that is a little more androgenic will hit the market so er or later.
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Gotcha; yeah, e2 related side effects are not welcomed, especially because I'm about to start ghar1ne and definitely don't need anymore water retention.
Regarding that last point, is there any way to combat the water retention from mk? Diuretics or potassium supplements with increased water? And is the bloat the kind that can give moon face?
 
GreenMachineX said:
Gotcha; yeah, e2 related side effects are not welcomed, especially because I'm about to start ghar1ne and definitely don't need anymore water retention.
Regarding that last point, is there any way to combat the water retention from mk? Diuretics or potassium supplements with increased water? And is the bloat the kind that can give moon face?
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I've heard low dose aspirin helps and no I think it's more stomach area. I've been on it for a month now but I was already bloated so I can't give an accurate observation on the effects it had on water retention. I did however start taking an aspirin a day along with my AI I was already taking and I think it has definitely gone down some
 
BamBam0319 said:
I've heard low dose aspirin helps and no I think it's more stomach area. I've been on it for a month now but I was already bloated so I can't give an accurate observation on the effects it had on water retention. I did however start taking an aspirin a day along with my AI I was already taking and I think it has definitely gone down some
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Right on. I should be taking aspirin anyway for my blood pressure. Thanks.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Gotcha; yeah, e2 related side effects are not welcomed, especially because I'm about to start ghar1ne and definitely don't need anymore water retention.
Regarding that last point, is there any way to combat the water retention from mk? Diuretics or potassium supplements with increased water? And is the bloat the kind that can give moon face?
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Most users find the bloat very minimal and it usually goes away after a few weeks of consistent use
 
bighulksmash said:
I hear thats a good dose , wats top end for tr3st ?
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I wouldn't reccomend dosing over 100mg unless you are an experienced trest user. The estrogen sides could be a big problem if you are estrogen sensitive
 
GreenMachineX said:
Gotcha; yeah, e2 related side effects are not welcomed, especially because I'm about to start ghar1ne and definitely don't need anymore water retention.
Regarding that last point, is there any way to combat the water retention from mk? Diuretics or potassium supplements with increased water? And is the bloat the kind that can give moon face?
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Time really does seem to be the best when it comes to the water retention from MK-677. For myself, it began week 1, peaked at week 3, and started noticeably dissipating by week 4-5. Now I'm essentially back to where I was pre MK-677, water retention-wise. Increased water and potassium didn't seem to make a significant impact, really. It just took time.
 
Just started ostarine a few days ago at 25mg, but the headaches have been terrible. Guess I'll back down to 15mg or something because this is unreal. Took 800mg motrin a few minutes ago, hope that helps. Anyone else get headaches from ostarine and what did you do for them? Strange that LGD and RAD140 have less sides than ostarine :(
 
GreenMachineX said:
Just started ostarine a few days ago at 25mg, but the headaches have been terrible. Guess I'll back down to 15mg or something because this is unreal. Took 800mg motrin a few minutes ago, hope that helps. Anyone else get headaches from ostarine and what did you do for them? Strange that LGD and RAD140 have less sides than ostarine :(
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headaches may be due to high BP.

I've heard others get headaches with Osta and they said that drink extra water and changed dosing to dose twice a day. Hawthorne Berry is supposed to help but I've heard that you would have already needed to have it in your system in order to help.

I am sure others will chime in.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Just started ostarine a few days ago at 25mg, but the headaches have been terrible. Guess I'll back down to 15mg or something because this is unreal. Took 800mg motrin a few minutes ago, hope that helps. Anyone else get headaches from ostarine and what did you do for them? Strange that LGD and RAD140 have less sides than ostarine :(
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I got them and just like the guy above me. I drank much more water and split the dosing and that helped big time for me.
 
datsthat said:
headaches may be due to high BP.

I've heard others get headaches with Osta and they said that drink extra water and changed dosing to dose twice a day. Hawthorne Berry is supposed to help but I've heard that you would have already needed to have it in your system in order to help.

I am sure others will chime in.
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fro60ol said:
I got them and just like the guy above me. I drank much more water and split the dosing and that helped big time for me.
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What was y'all's dose? Debating whether to drop to 20mg or 15mg daily. Last time I ran ostarine at 25-30mg I didn't even remember headaches, but that was several months ago, so maybe I just don't remember or didn't realize it was the ostarine doing it.
 
GreenMachineX said:
What was y'all's dose? Debating whether to drop to 20mg or 15mg daily. Last time I ran ostarine at 25-30mg I didn't even remember headaches, but that was several months ago, so maybe I just don't remember or didn't realize it was the ostarine doing it.
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I believe you would remember it. Which makes me think that may be ostarine with or without something else that give you headaches.
 
From my experience:

Headaches for the first few days on Osta...everytime. They should go away as your body adjusts to the compound.

Split dosing...absolutely and I don't care what the half-life is!

20mg is more then enough Ostarine. In fact, my 20mg run was more successful than my 25mg run (many factors of course). I start at 15mg for the first week as I am prone to headaches initially from many different compounds and in general.

Celery seed extract @ 100mg 2x per day and garlic extract at xxx per day (depends on potency). Also, I hope you are running a full-spectrum cycle support...Ostarine is an investigational drug after all.

Also, as suggested, a BP monitor is a great tool to have.
 
The calls for bans on SARMS will get stronger now. Rumor is LGD.

Brett McMurphy, College football reporter

Florida Gators quarterback Will Grier has been suspended for the season for violating NCAA rules, according to a source.

Grier tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs, a source said. The positive test carries an automatic suspension of one calendar year from the NCAA, which would mean he would not be eligible to return until Florida's seventh game of the 2016 season.
 
GreenMachineX said:
What was y'all's dose? Debating whether to drop to 20mg or 15mg daily. Last time I ran ostarine at 25-30mg I didn't even remember headaches, but that was several months ago, so maybe I just don't remember or didn't realize it was the ostarine doing it.
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21mg split 3 times a day (7mg with breakfast lunch dinner)
 
kck said:
The calls for bans on SARMS will get stronger now. Rumor is LGD.

Brett McMurphy, College football reporter

Florida Gators quarterback Will Grier has been suspended for the season for violating NCAA rules, according to a source.

Grier tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs, a source said. The positive test carries an automatic suspension of one calendar year from the NCAA, which would mean he would not be eligible to return until Florida's seventh game of the 2016 season.
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Yep several sources are confirming Will took Ligandrol.
 
GreenMachineX said:
What was y'all's dose? Debating whether to drop to 20mg or 15mg daily. Last time I ran ostarine at 25-30mg I didn't even remember headaches, but that was several months ago, so maybe I just don't remember or didn't realize it was the ostarine doing it.
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I have not actually tried Osta yet. My reply was based on research that I've done


I am still kinda confused about exemestane. I've asked this on a different thread but have not gotten a reply yet and is suits this thread better.

So I should pick up exemestane on top of already having clomid?
And to only use exemestane during PCT if estrogen issues arise that clomid isn't able to control such as tender nipples?
And immediately stop exemestane once estrogen issues subsides?

Thanks
 
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