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The Official OL UK Cardar1ne Q&A

Second day at 21mg and got some dull headaches all day. Anyone else have this?
Thinking of dropping back to 14mg unless these dissipate.
 
thu_hobbit said:
Ok i didnt know if it was or not. Would it be alright to combine the two?
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To my knowledge, it is not a COX-2 inhibitor, so I would stick with Tribulus. And I don't see any negative interaction between Cardarine, Rauwolfia and Tribulus. You should be good to go, my friend. :)

clown007 said:
Second day at 21mg and got some dull headaches all day. Anyone else have this?
Thinking of dropping back to 14mg unless these dissipate.
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Could possibly be low blood sugar or low blood pressure related, considering the elevated dose. You could drop the dosage, or increase your sodium or carb intake to ascertain if either one is the cause. Do what you feel comfortable with, myself I'd up my sodium a bit first, then try upping my carbs if that didn't help, then lower the dosage last. But that is what I would do personally. Again, do only what you feel comfortable with, clown007.
 
Thanks Hastur! I will try your recommendations and see if they help.
 
clown007 said:
Thanks Hastur! I will try your recommendations and see if they help.
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Absolutely, bro! Anytime! I hope you find that sodium and carb tweaking are the answer to your problem, I highly suspect they are. You'll see a lot of people going to low on carbs or sodium on GW complaining of side effects. It can really lower BP and blood sugar. Which is a great thing, but you know what they say, too much of a good thing... lol Hit us up with any future reports, would love to hear that your issue is swiftly resolved!
 
clown007 said:
Thanks Hastur! I will try your recommendations and see if they help.
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I like having a carb powder on hand like waxy maize or dextrose for GW. Its easy and fast if you find yourself getting dizzy. Also allows one to run semi low on carbs and fine tune where needed vs trying to down some food or juice or whatever. Also very cheap. I found some 4-5lb tubs for like $15 (primaforce).
 
Anyone hear of any moth ulcers with this stuff?
I'm running gw and picked up a bunch, i can only assume it's stress related but i'd rather rule out the gw of course.
 
Lucianooo said:
Never heard about that...i don't think is GW related
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Couldn't find any correlation myself, i have dropped 2kg despite my running s4/lgd and mk677 so it's probably down to hammering myself.

Gw seems to do a really good job of masking any tiredness or hypo sensations, so perhaps this is me just overdoing it.

Be a shame if it was, as i was having me a great time with fat loss on it.
Right back on that horse tomorrow then.
 
Hastur said:
To my knowledge, it is not a COX-2 inhibitor, so I would stick with Tribulus. And I don't see any negative interaction between Cardarine, Rauwolfia and Tribulus. You should be good to go, my friend. :)



Could possibly be low blood sugar or low blood pressure related, considering the elevated dose. You could drop the dosage, or increase your sodium or carb intake to ascertain if either one is the cause. Do what you feel comfortable with, myself I'd up my sodium a bit first, then try upping my carbs if that didn't help, then lower the dosage last. But that is what I would do personally. Again, do only what you feel comfortable with, clown007.
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Thanks man. Cant wait to start my log! Im just trying to get all the little things dialed in before i start
 
huxley309 said:
Couldn't find any correlation myself, i have dropped 2kg despite my running s4/lgd and mk677 so it's probably down to hammering myself.

Gw seems to do a really good job of masking any tiredness or hypo sensations, so perhaps this is me just overdoing it.

Be a shame if it was, as i was having me a great time with fat loss on it.
Right back on that horse tomorrow then.
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I don't see the correlation, however keep us updated with any further issues you may experience, along with more details, and we will do our best to help you!

thu_hobbit said:
Thanks man. Cant wait to start my log! Im just trying to get all the little things dialed in before i start
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Absolutely, my friend. Anytime! I look forward to your log, keep us updated!

Cogy said:
Subbed,
Day 7 on 14 mg with 20 osta
Stay tuned for update
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Sounds promising! Let us know how it treats you!
 
crowbar46 said:
Curcumin is a COX-2 inhibitor as well as having numerous health benefits.
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True, but Tribulus is more cost effective than an orally bioavailable curcumin supplement. They tend to be worthless unless they are a high purity curcumin (95%) coupled with bioperine and taken with fat.
 
Hastur said:
I just wanted to comment on the whole 'cancer' bit, which is what worries a lot of people who hear about Cardarine/GW-501516. All studies showing an incidence of cancer from GW-501516 included DMBA, which is a carcinogen in and of itself and accelerates cancer growth in studies. But usually there are signs of potential cancer development without DMBA, and in the studies everything was fine within reasonable dosage protocols.

In one study, which I am trying to track down again, it showed:
DMBA - X tested; 0 cancer
GW-501516 - X tested; 0 cancer
DMBA + GW - X tested; X cancer

It appears it was not GW-501516 alone that caused cancer, and the fear continued to get out of hand following the WADA letter. In fact, the company that produced GW-501516 continued their research with human clinical trials after the cancer/polyps study in mice, so clearly it didn't bother them, and no such side effects regarding cancer or polyps were reported with the humans.

Also, I want to touch on one of the potential concerns in the past which was that GW-501516 prevents cell apoptosis (programmed cell death, which is one of the ways that your body prevents cancer) which I believe was tied to COX-2 stimulation by GW-501516 (correct me if I'm wrong). This is why you'll see suggestions online in various forums recommending that you stack Cardarine/GW-501516 with a COX-2 inhibitor such as Tribulus Terrestris which was shown to have strong inhibitory activity on COX-2. As the study below shows:

"Evaluation of natural products on inhibition of inducible cyclooxygenase (COX-2) and nitric oxide synthase (iNOS) in cultured mouse macrophage cells."
Invalid Link Removed

I personally would stack Tribulus Terrestris with Cardar1ne just to be safe, but I have zero concern using Cardar1ne in regards to its effects on my health and well-being.
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Allow me to quote myself, haha. Theres your explanation, sir!
 
Hastur said:
True, but Tribulus is more cost effective than an orally bioavailable curcumin supplement. They tend to be worthless unless they are a high purity curcumin (95%) coupled with bioperine and taken with fat.
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Try Vitacost Curcumin extract: 2 caps provide 1160mg. Curcumin extract standardized to 95% curcuminoids and 5 mg. Bioperine, 120 cap bottles $28.00 at full cost. However, Vitacost VERY often runs BOGO 1/2 price, BOGO 1/4 price, and even BOGO free.

P.S. the list of researched health benefits from curcumin is really impressive!
 
crowbar46 said:
Try Vitacost Curcumin extract: 2 caps provide 1160mg. Curcumin extract standardized to 95% curcuminoids and 5 mg. Bioperine, 120 cap bottles $28.00 at full cost. However, Vitacost VERY often runs BOGO 1/2 price, BOGO 1/4 price, and even BOGO free.

P.S. the list of researched health benefits from curcumin is really impressive!
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I'm well aware, I eat curry dishes three times a day, everyday! I'm a big fan! You make a valid point, there ARE other COX-2 inhibitors out there, Curcumin is one of them. But I still fall back on my recommendation of Tribulus to people because you can easily get 100 caps of something like Now Tribulus for only $7, so its more cost effective. Curcumin is a beast unto itself, I recommend Curry/Turmeric/Curcumin to everyone on a daily basis, I make sure my family eats their fair share for the laundry list of health benefits!
 
Hastur said:
I'm well aware, I eat curry dishes three times a day, everyday! I'm a big fan! You make a valid point, there ARE other COX-2 inhibitors out there, Curcumin is one of them. But I still fall back on my recommendation of Tribulus to people because you can easily get 100 caps for Now Tribulus for only $7, so its more cost effective. Curcumin is a beast unto itself, I recommend Curry/Turmeric/Curcumin to everyone on a daily basis, I make sure my family eats their fair share for the laundry list of health benefits!
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Actually you would want non enhanced Curcumin so it doesn't get systemically absorbed and acts on the GI.
 
NoAddedHmones said:
Actually you would want non enhanced Curcumin so it doesn't get systemically absorbed and acts on the GI.
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I've never taken a Curcumin supplement, I only ever ingest it via cooking 3x daily. So I wouldn't say mine is enhanced, at least, not intentionally.
 
UPDATE:

1) yesterday (Sun, August 9th) was day 19, day 12 @ 21mg.

2) Sunday was my strength circuit: time was unchanged at 21 min.

3) it was a brutal workout and I may be nearing my limit in terms of reducing my time. Cardarine should be more effective for higher rep sets with moderate weight and reasonable--if short--rest periods. The strength circuit relies on generating high levels of force over an extended period of time with little to no rest. Cardarine will certainly help allow your body to utilize a higher percentage of fat for generating ATP, but this obviously has its limits as this type of training, because of the relatively heavy weights, will rely very heavily on glucose of ATP generation.

4) therefore, I may increase my time-to-progression from 20 min. to 21 min. (Where I'm currently at). I've got a lot of strength reserve yet, I just don't know that I'll be able to complete 4 rounds of 5 movements in under 21 min. So, I'll give it one more shot and if I don't reduce my time (or, obviously, if I do) I'll be increasing the weight by 10-20 Lbs. on each movement for the following week's circuit.

5) fat loss is moving along steadily despite some planned cheat meals. It's becoming quite noticeable to others at this point. Vascularity is increasing in forearms, legs, shoulder and chest
 
crowbar46 said:
UPDATE:

1) yesterday (Sun, August 9th) was day 19, day 12 @ 21mg.

2) Sunday was my strength circuit: time was unchanged at 21 min.

3) it was a brutal workout and I may be nearing my limit in terms of reducing my time. Cardarine should be more effective for higher rep sets with moderate weight and reasonable--if short--rest periods. The strength circuit relies on generating high levels of force over an extended period of time with little to no rest. Cardarine will certainly help allow your body to utilize a higher percentage of fat for generating ATP, but this obviously has its limits as this type of training, because of the relatively heavy weights, will rely very heavily on glucose of ATP generation.

4) therefore, I may increase my time-to-progression from 20 min. to 21 min. (Where I'm currently at). I've got a lot of strength reserve yet, I just don't know that I'll be able to complete 4 rounds of 5 movements in under 21 min. So, I'll give it one more shot and if I don't reduce my time (or, obviously, if I do) I'll be increasing the weight by 10-20 Lbs. on each movement for the following week's circuit.

5) fat loss is moving along steadily despite some planned cheat meals. It's becoming quite noticeable to others at this point. Vascularity is increasing in forearms, legs, shoulder and chest
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It sounds like its treating you pretty well, crowbar. Fat loss in spite of cheat meals is lovely. ;)
 
Yes I've been tinkering with higher reps on incline db chest presses and have gone up slowly in reps. I'm not going to my usual 100lb Dumbbells and sticking with 90s. 2 weeks ago I did 16 reps, last week I did 17 and today did 18. Not bad:) My rest time was also less than previous weeks.
 
A few questions...

Okay to take morning pre-workout on empty stomach? Intra I take 16g HBCD.

Or better to take with post-workout shake?

Any alcohol interactions with this or Ghar1ne? I don't drink often but I will have a big weekend in a couple of weeks and would like to start a stack now.

Thanks.
 
Shin Sprints said:
A few questions...

Okay to take morning pre-workout on empty stomach? Intra I take 16g HBCD.

Or better to take with post-workout shake?

Any alcohol interactions with this or Ghar1ne? I don't drink often but I will have a big weekend in a couple of weeks and would like to start a stack now.

Thanks.
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You should have no issue taking it on an empty stomach, I have done it in the past with GW. You may notice some low BP or low blood sugar though, when doing so.

It is not necessarily better with a post-workout shake.

I cannot advocate mixing Cardar1ne or Ghar1ne with alcohol, as there may be complex interactions I am unaware of. I'm not sure anyone can answer this question, in all honestly. You may be better off waiting to start the stack, or not dosing the day you choose to drink, as a safety precaution. I doubt anything life-threatening would occur, but again, I can't in good conscience tell you that it's without risk without knowing the facts.
 
Fair enough on the alcohol question, just wondering if anyone came across info...I haven't.

Unfortunately with social life alcohol is hard to avoid permanently.
 
Shin Sprints said:
Fair enough on the alcohol question, just wondering if anyone came across info...I haven't.

Unfortunately with social life alcohol is hard to avoid permanently.
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Very true. But alcohol should always be kept to a minimum while on any cycle, especially when running orals.
You don't want to tax your liver any harder then you already are.
 
vujade said:
Very true. But alcohol should always be kept to a minimum while on any cycle, especially when running orals.
You don't want to tax your liver any harder then you already are.
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Certainly something I am conscious of and I do try keep a minimum of big nights anyway, just sometimes it is unavoidable.

Thanks.
 
Shin Sprints said:
A few questions...

Okay to take morning pre-workout on empty stomach? Intra I take 16g HBCD.

Or better to take with post-workout shake?

Any alcohol interactions with this or Ghar1ne? I don't drink often but I will have a big weekend in a couple of weeks and would like to start a stack now.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

I'd take the Cardarine with a meal, as it's only "slightly water soluble". Timing should not really be a concern as Cardarine has an approx. 24 Hrs. half-life; you just wouldn't want to time your dose so the last dose was at, or near, the 24 Hr. mark before your workout--in other words, I would NOT take Cardarine in a post workout shake, as your next workout would then be near the elimination half-life of your previous dose.

So, that leaves either breakfast (my personal choice) or late in the day.
 
crowbar46 said:
I'd take the Cardarine with a meal, as it's only "slightly water soluble". Timing should not really be a concern as Cardarine has an approx. 24 Hrs. half-life; you just wouldn't want to time your dose so the last dose was at, or near, the 24 Hr. mark before your workout--in other words, I would NOT take Cardarine in a post workout shake, as your next workout would then be near the elimination half-life of your previous dose.

So, that leaves either breakfast (my personal choice) or late in the day.
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Okay, interesting.

I workout in the morning so that would seem to indicate taking evening time with a meal?

Or pre-workout with, say 15g, MCT oil? Though always worried with empty stomach and MCT oil bathroom ramifications ;)
 
Shin Sprints said:
Okay, interesting.

I workout in the morning so that would seem to indicate taking evening time with a meal?

Or pre-workout with, say 15g, MCT oil? Though always worried with empty stomach and MCT oil bathroom ramifications ;)
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I personally wouldn't recommend taking Cardar1ne at night, there have been more than a few reports that taking it close to bed affects sleep quality. Of course this is highly individual, but I had no issues taking it on an empty stomach pre-morning cardio. I recommend playing with the dosage and seeing what works for you, with a 24h half life, timing shouldn't be a great concern.
 
Hastur said:
I just wanted to comment on the whole 'cancer' bit, which is what worries a lot of people who hear about Cardarine/GW-501516. All studies showing an incidence of cancer from GW-501516 included DMBA, which is a carcinogen in and of itself and accelerates cancer growth in studies. But usually there are signs of potential cancer development without DMBA, and in the studies everything was fine within reasonable dosage protocols.

In one study, which I am trying to track down again, it showed:
DMBA - X tested; 0 cancer
GW-501516 - X tested; 0 cancer
DMBA + GW - X tested; X cancer

It appears it was not GW-501516 alone that caused cancer, and the fear continued to get out of hand following the WADA letter. In fact, the company that produced GW-501516 continued their research with human clinical trials after the cancer/polyps study in mice, so clearly it didn't bother them, and no such side effects regarding cancer or polyps were reported with the humans.

Also, I want to touch on one of the potential concerns in the past which was that GW-501516 prevents cell apoptosis (programmed cell death, which is one of the ways that your body prevents cancer) which I believe was tied to COX-2 stimulation by GW-501516 (correct me if I'm wrong). This is why you'll see suggestions online in various forums recommending that you stack Cardarine/GW-501516 with a COX-2 inhibitor such as Tribulus Terrestris which was shown to have strong inhibitory activity on COX-2. As the study below shows:

"Evaluation of natural products on inhibition of inducible cyclooxygenase (COX-2) and nitric oxide synthase (iNOS) in cultured mouse macrophage cells."
Invalid Link Removed

I personally would stack Tribulus Terrestris with Cardar1ne just to be safe, but I have zero concern using Cardar1ne in regards to its effects on my health and well-being.
Click to expand...

So Yates has said just run it with no other supps needed for PCT, but now you are saying it should be ran trib during cycle, you just to be safe. ARE YOU KIDDING ME. We are talking about F'n cancer. My dad died of it and my father in-law just had his esophagus completely remove. Who sells a product like this? So care free? Only people I know are tobacco companies. Oh and OL
 
blurryimage said:
So Yates has said just run it with no other supps needed for PCT, but now you are saying it should be ran trib during cycle, you just to be safe. ARE YOU KIDDING ME. We are talking about F'n cancer. My dad died of it and my father in-law just had his esophagus completely remove. Who sells a product like this? So care free? Only people I know are tobacco companies. Oh and OL
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I don't believe you understood my post. It was meant to allieviate concerns and help disprove the cancer claim made elsewhere on the internet, sir. Putting into focus the misinformation out there. I am sorry for the issues you've experienced in your personal life, you have my condolances. My suggestion for a COX-2 inhibitor is an insurance policy to remain side effect free as much as possible, however the implications of cancer come from GW being paired with DMBA at higher than safe dosages. You will remain free of any cancer risk regardless of if you use a COX-2 inhibitor or not.
 
blurryimage said:
So Yates has said just run it with no other supps needed for PCT, but now you are saying it should be ran trib during cycle, you just to be safe. ARE YOU KIDDING ME. We are talking about F'n cancer. My dad died of it and my father in-law just had his esophagus completely remove. Who sells a product like this? So care free? Only people I know are tobacco companies. Oh and OL
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I am sorry to hear about your father and father-in-law, I truly am. I too have lost close family members to cancer (4 unfortunately), one of which I cared for till the very end. It is a painful and heartbreaking struggle, and is one I will never forget.

SARMS are a new frontier of anabolics and there is a lot that no one yet knows about them. They inherently come with certain risks (as did/do all the other designer steroids that came before these). (EDIT: I realize GW isn't actually a SARM, but I'm lumping it in with that category for sake of illustration).

The OL team does our best to inform the public about those risks and how to potentially mediate them, citing and studying the best research papers and information available to help assist the public in making informed choices. Nevertheless, certain risks exist, as with most any supplement.

Lumping OL in with big tobacco seems like an unfair comparison. The OL team has some of the most caring and thoughtful members who take the responsibility of looking out for our customers very seriously.

There are a plethora of companies offering SARMS, some of which are less responsible than others. I would say OL's track record demonstrates we are of the responsible type, taking measures above and beyond many others such as 3rd party verification of raw batches for purity.

As for GW specifically, while taking Trib may help inhibit COX-2 as an "extra" precaution, it should be noted that in the cited studies NO CANCER was evident from GW supplementation alone.

In the end it is up to the consumer to make an informed decision about what to put in their body and what not to. I wish you the best, and while I respect your opinion (as it is your right to have), I hope that we can earn back your trust in the years to come.

Best Regards,
 
kboxer7 said:
I am sorry to hear about your father and father-in-law, I truly am. I too have lost close family members to cancer (4 unfortunately), one of which I cared for till the very end. It is a painful and heartbreaking struggle, and is one I will never forget.

SARMS are a new frontier of anabolics and there is a lot that no one yet knows about them. They inherently come with certain risks (as did/do all the other designer steroids that came before these). The OL team does our best to inform the public about those risks and how to potentially mediate them, citing and studying the best research papers and information available to help assist the public in making informed choices. Nevertheless, certain risks exist, as with most any supplement.

Lumping OL in with big tobacco seems like an unfair comparison. The OL team has some of the most caring and thoughtful members who take the responsibility of looking out for our customers very seriously.

There are a plethora of companies offering SARMS, some of which are less responsible than others. I would say OL's track record demonstrates we are of the responsible type, taking measures above and beyond many others such as 3rd party verification of raw batches for purity.

As for GW specifically, while taking Trib may help inhibit COX-2 as an "extra" precaution, it should be noted that in the cited studies NO CANCER was evident from GW supplementation alone.

In the end it is up to the consumer to make an informed decision about what to put in their body and what not to. I wish you the best, and while I respect your opinion (as it is your right to have), I hope that we can earn back your trust in the years to come.

Best Regards,
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Absolutely spot on, and echoes my sentiments on all levels. Well put, my friend.
 
blurryimage said:
So Yates has said just run it with no other supps needed for PCT, but now you are saying it should be ran trib during cycle, you just to be safe. ARE YOU KIDDING ME. We are talking about F'n cancer. My dad died of it and my father in-law just had his esophagus completely remove. Who sells a product like this? So care free? Only people I know are tobacco companies. Oh and OL
Click to expand...
If I felt like this product could even possibly cause cancer I would not be using it and definitely would not be endorsing it. We just believe in being overly cautious and also giving you all of the information that you need to make a decision on the use of these products. The last thing I would ever want is for someone to get hurt
 
yates84 said:
If I felt like this product could even possibly cause cancer I would not be using it and definitely would not be endorsing it. We just believe in being overly cautious and also giving you all of the information that you need to make a decision on the use of these products. The last thing I would ever want is for someone to get hurt
Click to expand...

X2 a little research goes a long way... I have done my homework on this stuff and feel VERY comfortable using it
 
kboxer7 said:
I am sorry to hear about your father and father-in-law, I truly am. I too have lost close family members to cancer (4 unfortunately), one of which I cared for till the very end. It is a painful and heartbreaking struggle, and is one I will never forget.

SARMS are a new frontier of anabolics and there is a lot that no one yet knows about them. They inherently come with certain risks (as did/do all the other designer steroids that came before these). The OL team does our best to inform the public about those risks and how to potentially mediate them, citing and studying the best research papers and information available to help assist the public in making informed choices. Nevertheless, certain risks exist, as with most any supplement.

Lumping OL in with big tobacco seems like an unfair comparison. The OL team has some of the most caring and thoughtful members who take the responsibility of looking out for our customers very seriously.

There are a plethora of companies offering SARMS, some of which are less responsible than others. I would say OL's track record demonstrates we are of the responsible type, taking measures above and beyond many others such as 3rd party verification of raw batches for purity.

As for GW specifically, while taking Trib may help inhibit COX-2 as an "extra" precaution, it should be noted that in the cited studies NO CANCER was evident from GW supplementation alone.

In the end it is up to the consumer to make an informed decision about what to put in their body and what not to. I wish you the best, and while I respect your opinion (as it is your right to have), I hope that we can earn back your trust in the years to come.

Best Regards,
Click to expand...

I think you are right in that I should not lump OL in with tobacco. That was too harsh. The thing is though, people taken carcinogens all the time and might not know it. Body builders love meat and if you grill that meat and burn the tip or edge and eat it, well that's carcinogens. And then take GW and now you have the same thing going on as in. The mouse study. I understand the mice received a lot more GW, but my point is it doesn't seam safe since we have no real long term track record. And people can have cancer for a very long time before any symptoms show up.

Also GW Is not a SARM. If you take a SARM maybe a side effect is high BP. Well that is an instant side effect you can test for and see it. Damaged cells that are mutating into cancer can take a lot longer to show up. I know I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. I just wish more studies have been done before you put this out on theater and package it as safe.

OL makes some great products but this one just seems wrong, at this time. (My own opinion)
 
blurryimage said:
I think you are right in that I should not lump OL in with tobacco. That was too harsh. The thing is though, people taken carcinogens all the time and might not know it. Body builders love meat and if you grill that meat and burn the tip or edge and eat it, well that's carcinogens. And then take GW and now you have the same thing going on as in. The mouse study. I understand the mice received a lot more GW, but my point is it doesn't seam safe since we have no real long term track record. And people can have cancer for a very long time before any symptoms show up.

Also GW Is not a SARM. If you take a SARM maybe a side effect is high BP. Well that is an instant side effect you can test for and see it. Damaged cells that are mutating into cancer can take a lot longer to show up. I know I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. I just wish more studies have been done before you put this out on theater and package it as safe.

OL makes some great products but this one just seems wrong, at this time. (My own opinion)
Click to expand...


Heres the thing, a lot of things that are taken in high doses can cause cancer.

Acetametaphen, the ingredient in Tylonol was found to cause cancer in higher doses.

Human studies were done by GSK even after the Rats were found to get cancer..
Healthy & Sick humans were tested up to 12 weeks as high as 10mg per day with no ill effects.

Mice did not get cancer. Mice are closer in genetics to us, then Rats.
Rhesus Monkeys did not get cancer.
 
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