Liger Log - Primeval Labs Super LGD

I'd recommend you skip the 4-Andro and purchase yourself a bottle of BPS Dermacrine. At your age, you will enjoy it. It will help with mood, energy, and libido later on in your cycle if it becomes an issue. It is also much better suited to running with a SARM, IMO. AT your body weight, 2-3 pumps a day should suffice.
 
Toren said:
I'd recommend you skip the 4-Andro and purchase yourself a bottle of BPS Dermacrine. At your age, you will enjoy it. It will help with mood, energy, and libido later on in your cycle if it becomes an issue. It is also much better suited to running with a SARM, IMO. AT your body weight, 2-3 pumps a day should suffice.
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So Dermacrine looks cool, just a little pricey. Would there be any benefit for me to use the Ostar1ne, Str3ngth, or Elim1nate that I already have?

Or, would any of the other cheaper straight DHEA creams on Amazon give me the same benefit as the dermacrine?
 
Osta will raise estro, strength is laxogen I believe and would be letter in pct, eliminate could help with estro sides if in countered on lgd. Maybe someone else can chime in
 
Doctoroctober said:
So Dermacrine looks cool, just a little pricey. Would there be any benefit for me to use the Ostar1ne, Str3ngth, or Elim1nate that I already have?

Or, would any of the other cheaper straight DHEA creams on Amazon give me the same benefit as the dermacrine?
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Ostarine is a very similar product to LGD and would therfore not be a good idea to stack them. Also, osta can cause some mild lethargy and libido issues as it does the same thing as LGD, just to a slightly lesser degree.

I do not think Str3ngth would be of any benefit to you on cycle. It is a natural anabolic and should be used during PCT to help maintain strength gains.

Elim1nate is a great product and I use it myself. It would not be beneficial as a test base or boost here though. It will definitely help you to lean out more on cycle and it would help to control cortisol spikes during PCT. It is great for eliminating excess water from the body which makes you appear to be leaner than you actually are. It will increase vascularity as well but you seem to have that covered naturally. Even at a low dose of 25mg a day, quality arimistane products can be affective. The results are for the most part only temporary thouugh. Again, I think it is a great addition to PCT or even later in the cycle if you start to feel/look bloated.

I haven't used any TD DHEA products other than Dermacrine but I am sure that some of them do work. Transdermal is certainly better than oral delivery when it comes to DHEA, that is for certain. For me, Dermacrine is probably more effective (I can't say how much though) because of the extra ingredients on top of the DHEA. They work in the same vein but via a different MOA. It has built in AI's which also help to boost natural Test production and keep you lean and vascular.

Somebody else might be able to chime in other TD DHEA options.....

Some of the supplement vendors have 10% discounts going on as well. Orbit Nutrition has Dermacrine for 34.99 plus 10% off with the SOCIAL coupon code. Check out Nutriverse (coupon code AM5 plus extra 5% - see website) and Nutraplanet as well.
 
Toren said:
Ostarine is a very similar product to LGD and would therfore not be a good idea to stack them. Also, osta can cause some mild lethargy and libido issues as it does the same thing as LGD, just to a slightly lesser degree.

I do not think Str3ngth would be of any benefit to you on cycle. It is a natural anabolic and should be used during PCT to help maintain strength gains.

Elim1nate is a great product and I use it myself. It would not be beneficial as a test base or boost here though. It will definitely help you to lean out more on cycle and it would help to control cortisol spikes during PCT. It is great for eliminating excess water from the body which makes you appear to be leaner than you actually are. It will increase vascularity as well but you seem to have that covered naturally. Even at a low dose of 25mg a day, quality arimistane products can be affective. The results are for the most part only temporary thouugh. Again, I think it is a great addition to PCT or even later in the cycle if you start to feel/look bloated.

I haven't used any TD DHEA products other than Dermacrine but I am sure that some of them do work. Transdermal is certainly better than oral delivery when it comes to DHEA, that is for certain. For me, Dermacrine is probably more effective (I can't say how much though) because of the extra ingredients on top of the DHEA. They work in the same vein but via a different MOA. It has built in AI's which also help to boost natural Test production and keep you lean and vascular.

Somebody else might be able to chime in other TD DHEA options.....

Some of the supplement vendors have 10% discounts going on as well. Orbit Nutrition has Dermacrine for 34.99 plus 10% off with the SOCIAL coupon code. Check out Nutriverse (coupon code AM5 plus extra 5% - see website) and Nutraplanet as well.
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Awesome info, thanks!
 
Day 15 - July 26, 2015



Vacation's over, and I'm back home and back to my local gyms.



Barbell Deadlift::: Set 1 : 305.0x4*, Set 2 : 275.0x5

Barbell Standing Military Press::: Set 1 : 145.0x4*, Set 2 : 135.0x5

Weighted Pull Ups::: Set 1 : 70.0x3*, Set 2 : 55.0x4, Set 3 : 45x5

Dumbbell Arnold Press::: Set 1 : 65.0x7*, Set 2 : 55.0x6

T Bar Lying Row::: Set 1 : 135.0x8*, Set 2 : 120.0x8

Cable Rope Face Pull::: Set 1 : 70.0x16*, Set 2 : 60.0x15

Hammer Grip Pull Up::: Set 1 : BW+0x8



This was an awesome workout! PRs across the board! I've deadlifted 305 a few times before, but with pretty sh*tty form. This time it didn't even feel all that heavy, and I'm pretty sure my form was the best it's been. I've been shooting video selfies of my deadlifts - maybe I'll post this one for some form checks. I definitely could have gone a bit heavier and I definitely will next session. I might have been able to grind out a 5th rep, but I didn't quite lock out at the top of the 4th so I didn't go for the 5th. Both shoulder pressing exercises felt pretty great too, especially with the dumbbells. FWIW, I added a 2-scoop sample packet I had lying around of PES High Volume to my pre workout, though I can't give that stuff too much credit since it's mainly just a pump product.



Also I've switched to taking the 2 caps of LGD together first thing in the morning for simplicity sake. No idea if that's better than dividing the doses throughout the day.
 
Day 16 - July 27, 2015



Barbell Bench Press::: Set 1 : 210.0x3, Set 2 : 205.0x4, Set 3 : 185x8

Barbell Curl::: Set 1 : 90.0x4, Set 2 : 80.0x5, Set 3 : 70x11

Machine Fly::: Set 1 : 180.0x8*, Set 2 : 165.0x6, Set 3 : 150x8, Set 4 : 120x7

Weighted Triceps Dips::: Set 1 : 90.0x5, Set 2 : 70.0x7

Dumbbell Incline Bench Press::: Set 1 : 75.0x2, Set 2 : 65.0x5, Set 3 : 55x8

Cable Triceps Pushdown::: Set 1 : 110.0x12, Set 2 : 120.0x14



FYI, my PR asterisks are based on the theoretical 1RMs that JEFIT calculates for me. So for example, even though 210 LBs is the most I've ever benched for 1 rep this time around, it's not a PR for me because last session was 205x6 which yields a higher theoretical 1RM. So...only 1 PR today, but this was the highest volume (weight lifted) day for this workout by almost 2,000LBs, so endurance was definitely UP. I kept adding extra sets, beyond my usual 2 work sets, despite being fully fasted for over 16 hours.
 
Day 17 - July 28, 2015



Today and tomorrow will be rest days due to circumstances and that's fine. I'm probably going to get in a few extra gym sessions this week anyway beyond my usual 3 because I'm really trying to take advantage of the extra stuff flowing through my veins.



Sides: I keep flip-flopping on the lethargy because it seems like some days it hits me a few times and other days it just doesn't. Last couple of days have been mostly lethargy-free. Nuts are fine, and TMI but I seem to be busting them a lot quicker when I get down and dirty. No big deal.



I haven't weighed myself in over a week, and I was feeling fat over vacation, but the fat feeling was fairly fleeting. I still don't feel quite as lean as before I started this cycle, there's some extra softness around my midsection, but I wouldn't say I feel fat anymore. Does this stuff cause water retention? Getting back to my usual routines and diet for a couple of days makes me feel overall better. I had considered abandoning IF and cal/macro cycling while on LGD, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to stick with those dietary strategies for the long run - they just work for me and really help with my compliance.



I would like to have a bit more stamina in the gym while continuing to lift fasted, but I'm thinking maybe there's some awesome pre-workout that can help with that? I kind of want to try something "extreme," with focus/nootropic goodies like maybe Cannibal Ferox. Or some kind of pre-workout stack that combines energy, focus, and pump. I'm happy to take a non-stim or non-pump pre-workout and just add my own caffeine or citrulline if that's what it takes. Jekyll, Hyde, C4, White Flood, Permaswole, PES High Volume, Nitramine, Nitraflex, Alphamine (currently using that occasionally and generally I love it)... Anyone have any suggestions? Should I get some DMAA and/or AMP and make my own? I've used both in the past with no issues. And I'm still considering and close to pulling the trigger on some Dermacrine.
 
Solid looking workout..Congratulations on the PR's
 
DrOct if youre looking for increased stamina/endurance then maybe consider an epicatechin product. Its not a CNS stimulant like caffeine, so you wont 'feel' an acute energy, but it should noticeably reduce time-to-fatigue and increase work load capacity.
 
NewAgeMayan said:
DrOct if youre looking for increased stamina/endurance then maybe consider an epicatechin product. Its not a CNS stimulant like caffeine, so you wont 'feel' an acute energy, but it should noticeably reduce time-to-fatigue and increase work load capacity.
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Any recommendations? Ep1c?
 
I used Ep1c Unleashed transdermal, and it was really good. Its most pronounced effect for me was the reduced recovery time between sets.
 
Doctoroctober said:
Any recommendations? Ep1c?
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Yip. Either the TD or cap version will be all good, though Id probably lean toward the cap as the effects youre after will likely be more acute and pronounced than with the TD.

Good timing too, as nutriverse is having a 2-bottle sale at the moment. I think you have to put the two-bottle combo into your cart, and add code EP1CX20.
 
NewAgeMayan said:
Yip. Either the TD or cap version will be all good, though Id probably lean toward the cap as the effects youre after will likely be more acute and pronounced than with the TD.

Good timing too, as nutriverse is having a 2-bottle sale at the moment. I think you have to put the two-bottle combo into your cart, and add code EP1CX20.
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Do you recommend Ep1c unleashed or leashed?
 
Never known anyone taking the tadalafil pre workout. I have heard of it, but never knew what it would really benefit workout wise. I know what it does pre bedtime, ha but thats it.

Great log. Thanks for the details you give. Keep it up.
 
bigguyn10ec said:
Never known anyone taking the tadalafil pre workout. I have heard of it, but never knew what it would really benefit workout wise. I know what it does pre bedtime, ha but thats it.

Great log. Thanks for the details you give. Keep it up.
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I got the tadalafil to see if it really helps with pumps figuring if it doesn't at least it will help with pumping! Also it was reasonably cheap, $26 for 30mg/mlx30ml and in my experience a very little goes a very long way.
 
1kerry said:
ohh nice, I thought it was banned all around the country...btw, how you take it? just raw or you use caps?
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Hmm... well I'll let you all know if it actually arrives. And I was planning to just mix the powder with the sulbutiamine and my bcaas and drink it down, old school jack3d style.
 
warrior737 said:
I was thinking about what you said above. Dermicrine is slightly hormonal. It may be best for you to apply it tourself. Done want your old lady's hormones to be out of wack...
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Yeah I thought about that. Only thing is I'm so inflexible it's hard to get it on my back myself. And palms aren't that porous, and she washes her hands after. But.... point we'll taken. Good looking out.
 
Day 19 - July 30, 2015
Strength gains are definitely here.
Barbell Deep Squat::: Set 1 : 225.0x5, Set 2 : 225.0x5
Weight Plate Decline Crunch::: Set 1 : 50.0x10*, Set 2 : 50.0x10
Lying Leg Curls::: Set 1 : 140.0x7*, Set 2 : 125.0x8
Weight Plate Side Bend::: Set 1 : 120.0x13*, Set 2 : 110.0x11 (these hurt this time)
Leg Extensions::: Set 1 : 190.0x12*, Set 2 : 170.0x12 (another PR crushed, strength through the roof, could have kept going)
Seated Calf Raise::: Set 1 : 90.0x14 (I have the calves of a 12yo girl)
Hanging Rotated Knee Raise::: Set 1 : 24, Set 2 : 24


Day 20 - July 31, 2015
Barbell Deadlift::: Set 1 : 315.0x4*, Set 2 : 285.0x5 (SHATTERED my previous PR of 305x4 from just under a week ago and it felt GOOD)
Barbell Standing Military Press::: Set 1 : 145.0x4, Set 2 : 135.0x5
T Bar Lying Row::: Set 1 : 145.0x6*, Set 2 : 135.0x7
Wide Grip Lat Pulldown::: Set 1 : 150.0x8, Set 2 : 160.0x7 (palms facing in FWIW) (haven't done these in forever, and they felt great)
Dumbbell Arnold Press::: Set 1 : 70.0x7*, Set 2 : 60.0x8
Close Grip Chin Up::: Set 1 : 70.0x4*, Set 2 : 60.0x2

Workout energy and stamina was pretty good for both of these sessions. Maybe it's the Dermacrine? Didn't get any of my new PWO stuff yet. Evening lethargy seems mostly alleviated. I don't "notice" anything directly from the Dermacrine, but if the lethargy has abated then I'll give it the credit. I'm doing just 2 pumps after I shower in the morning for the time being.

Had a rough attack of body dismorphia the other night - got myself good and depressed for a couple of hours late night when I should have just been sleeping. I knew I was getting a bit fatter and softer, but I hadn't stepped on the scale in nearly 2 weeks and I was 158. I know I must have gained some muscle because my strength is through the roof, but pairing that number with my blurrier midsection just made me feel like a cow. I started thinking about running DNP or doing a PSMF cycle, and in general just feeling lousy about myself and like my sh*ttier diet adherence over vacation basically ruined all the cutting progress I've made since February. Long story short, I felt more sane in the morning and I feel better about myself today. I've re-committed to proper dietary adherence and that generally gives me more feelings of control which makes me feel better about myself. I'm also considering changing from a slight surplus to a slight deficit for a few weeks, basically from slow bulk to light cut, but I'm conflicted because my goal for the LGD cycle was to bulk. I guess I'm in that place where I want to build muscle and get bigger but adding 1%BF just makes me feel terrible about myself. I know I'm not the only one with this issue. I do think though that if I had to choose between being bigger or being leaner, I tend towards preferring leaner, for whatever that's worth.

I'm thinking that within a couple of days of better adherence I'll feel good enough about myself to post some updated selfies and get the AnabolicHiveMind's bulk-or-cut prognosis.

During my downward spiral the other night, once I convinced myself that both DNP and PSMF were terrible ideas, I ordered some of Chaos and Pain's Cannibal Claw, since there's not much more stimulants I can pump into my body for thermogenic purposes. Before I start popping these pills, anyone have any opinions on or experience with this product or with thyroid stuff in general? Good idea? Bad idea?

My nuts are smaller.

In other thoughts and news, I leave for a 10 day vacation in Naxos, Greece in just under 2 weeks. I'm going to bring my TRX (actually WOSS) straps but I figure working out won't really happen and dietary adherence will be a struggle. I assume I should keep taking the 10mg LGD every day? Should I scale it back to 5mg ED or 10mg OED or something? Is there something else I should add in since I won't be lifting? Should I keep the LGD going and start adding in some kind of PCT stuff?
 
Okay everybody, relax, it's going to be okay. Clearly I read the scale wrong. I'm 151, not 158. Verified on 2 scales. Serves me right for drinking and weighing.
 
Day 23 - August 3, 2015

Barbell Bench Press::: Set 1 : 210.0x4, Set 2 : 190.0x10* (so my second set was technically the PR set, and honestly I could have banged out one or 2 more reps. Not sure why I stopped. )
Barbell Curl::: Set 1 : 90.0x6*, Set 2 : 80.0x7
Weighted Tricep Dips::: Set 1 : 90.0x9*, Set 2 : 80.0x7 (felt like a beast, but I think I super fatigued my tris so the cable pushdowns suffered)
Dumbbell Negative Preacher Curl::: Set 1 : 45.0x2, Set 2 : 45.0x2 (randomly decided to add in some negatives by pulling the weight up with one arm and lowering for 14 seconds with the other. Definitely got me good and sore)
Machine Fly::: Set 1 : 190.0x10*, Set 2 : 170.0x11 (PR crushed)
Cable Triceps Pushdown::: Set 1 : 90.0x12, Set 2 : 80.0x13 (felt super weak from the dips)
Dumbbell Incline Bench Press::: Set 1 : 65.0x8, Set 2 : 55.0x9 (meh)

In other news, all my new supps came in and I'll start using them in the next day or so. Still unsure about the Cannibal Claw though....
 
I would like to go to Greece but not at this economic crisis.
Glad for the prs. Man. Keep it up
 
Day 24 - August 4, 2015

Leg Press (45deg sled)::: Set 1 : 270.0x5, Set 2 : 360.0x6*, Set 3 : 320x6
Standing Calf Raises (on hack squat thing)::: Set 1 : 270.0x20, Set 2 : 360.0x16*, Set 3 : 410x10
Leg Extensions::: Set 1 : 210.0x10*, Set 2 : 190.0x12
Lying Leg Curls::: Set 1 : 145.0x5*, Set 2 : 130.0x10
Ab Crunch Machine::: Set 1 : 115.0x10, Set 2 : 95.0x12 (Just felt like trying the machine. Hated it)
Weight Plate Decline Crunch::: Set 1 : 55.0x5, Set 2 : 40.0x5 (These sucked. I felt weak. Last week I got 50x10 for 2 sets)
Workout Duration: 44 minutes. Kindof rushed it.
 
PROGRESS UPDATE

Day 25 - August 5, 2015
PROGRESS UPDATE

I weighed in at 152 this morning, so that's a net gain of 6 pounds over the 25 days of this cycle. And looking back to my lifts from Day 1 around July 12, here's how my strength has progressed.

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All the 1RMs are figured using Jim Wendler's formula 1RM = (WEIGHT x REPS x 0.033) + WEIGHT. I don't put a lot of stock in the accuracy or validity of the theoretical 1RM, but it gives you a single number to compare for progress tracking so that's why I'm using it. I honestly don't think I could bench 253 pounds for 1 rep, but how else do you compare lifts when both the weight and reps change?

So what's interesting to me about my progress is that my chin ups and pull ups strength increased by far the most, and I've been doing those consistently at the end of my workouts. Does that mean that, for me at least, the LGD is affecting my lats more than any other muscle group? I’d say lats and bis and tris but my curls and dips haven’t increased all that much.
 
Day 26 - August 6, 2015

5 more PRs baby!

Decided to prioritize pull ups at today's workout by starting with those instead of deadlifts. So my previous best pull up set was last session at BW+70x3, and today's set was BW+70x6. For some reason I thought I'd be able to hit like 10 reps but once I got a couple reps in I realized there was no way that was going to happen. Then dumbbell shoulder press I tried a pair of 75 pounders but couldn't even press 1 rep, so I dropped back to 70s and banged out 8 solid which is 1 more rep than last session. Everything else was good except deadlift, but I pretty much knew deadlift would suffer if I started with pull-ups so I honestly didn't even try that hard. Mostly just did a bunch of deadlift warmups and focused on form.

I'm really enjoying the wide grip lat pulldowns! I'm using the bar with the grips that let your palms face inward towards each other, which (broscience alert) I feel gives me a better contraction in my biceps. Then I pull down in front of my chest as low as I can, kind of doing a simultaneous crunch and I feel like I'm hitting my lats, core, serratus, and biceps really hard. Feels great.

Weighted Pull Ups::: Set 1 : 70.0x6*, Set 2 : 61.6x4
Dumbbell Arnold Press::: Set 1 : 70.0x8*, Set 2 : 60.0x9
T Bar Lying Row::: Set 1 : 150.0x5*, Set 2 : 135.0x6, Set 3 : 90x14
Barbell Deadlift::: Set 1 : 225.0x5, , Set 2 : 315x0, Set 3 : 275.0x2 (basically did a deload on deadlift since I started with pull ups. Anyway I couldn't even rip 315 off the floor for a single)
Close Grip Chin Up::: Set 1 : 70.0x4, Set 2 : 61.6x5
Wide Grip Lat Pulldown::: Set 1 : 170.0x5*, Set 2 : 150.0x7
Hammer Grip Pull Up::: Set 1 : BWx7
Cable Rope Face Pull::: Set 1 : 80.0x16*, Set 2 : 70.0x17

Also I think the lethargy is history now, I suppose thanks to the Dermacrine. So thanks to warrior737 and anyone else who recommended it!
 
Great job so far! To tell you the truth, I like that you are heavier now, even if you lost some ab definition. Here's why -- you still look absolutely shredded. Trust me on this one. But with the shirt on, which is how most people see you anyway, you will look bigger and stronger with some extra meat on you. And then, there's the strength gains. :)
 
gagandugan said:
Great job so far! To tell you the truth, I like that you are heavier now, even if you lost some ab definition. Here's why -- you still look absolutely shredded. Trust me on this one. But with the shirt on, which is how most people see you anyway, you will look bigger and stronger with some extra meat on you. And then, there's the strength gains. :)
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Thanks man. The shirt gains are great actually. My sleeves are getting TIGHT! I wish I took measurements before I started. And throwing around bigger weight in the gym feels good too. Hopefully the LGD let's me continue to make strength gains despite the cut.
 
Yup, I know how that feels. Since I went from 130 to around 163, I had to buy new shirts. Nothing could fit me anymore. Which is why, at this point, I don't want to get any heavier. I like my wardrobe. :) You and I are about the same height, BTW. I'm bigger, but you look way more ripped. Looking at your lifts, it's close too. I think I'm just a tad stronger, but again, that's what those few extra lbs will do for you. LGD is a good compound for strength. So is 1-Andro. Check my weekly log update this Sunday, I hope you'll find some good info there: anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/270811-super-mandro-letrone.html
 
gagandugan said:
Yup, I know how that feels. Since I went from 130 to around 163, I had to buy new shirts. Nothing could fit me anymore. Which is why, at this point, I don't want to get any heavier. I like my wardrobe. :) You and I are about the same height, BTW. I'm bigger, but you look way more ripped. Looking at your lifts, it's close too. I think I'm just a tad stronger, but again, that's what those few extra lbs will do for you. LGD is a good compound for strength. So is 1-Andro. Check my weekly log update this Sunday, I hope you'll find some good info there: anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/270811-super-mandro-letrone.html
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Subbing your log now!

Edit: autocorrect.
 
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