Most Natural Anabolic Supplement?

NoAddedHmones said:
I see it as a tasty way to get my Creatine, TMG and LCLT in for the day. the rest is meh lol.
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I agree. I used to take anavite which was my favorite multi (over triad). The LCLT and BA is a big performance booster for me. With the price of anavite, I opted for a cheap B super complex from Costco and then Ergonine stacked with BA. It's just a few dollars more but it has choline, HICA and TMG.
 
Although the taste is awesome I'm planning to get unflavored on all my future purchases that way I can mix it with my preworkout drink. Or... Get capped preworkouts then mix it with Ergonine. I have a few options in mind :)
 
T-Bone said:
Huh?
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Sorry. I was agreeing with you. When I've taken laxogenin and oleuropein (both said to enhance nitrogen retention) I had to increase my protein intake to notice anything (the oleuropein study actually stated that 40% protein intake yielded the best results), but I had to discontinue the laxogenin because of sides. Like you said the effect I noticed could simply have been a result of my increased protein ingestion rather than the supplements. That's something I didn't consider while posting the first comment while on the go. Epicatechin on the other hand is something I've never changed my protein intake while taking, but still noticed positive results. Make sense?
 
Capt Awesome said:
Sorry. I was agreeing with you. When I've taken laxogenin and oleuropein (both said to enhance nitrogen retention) I had to increase my protein intake to notice anything (the oleuropein study actually stated that 40% protein intake yielded the best results), but I had to discontinue the laxogenin because of sides. Like you said the effect I noticed could simply have been a result of my increased protein ingestion rather than the supplements. That's something I didn't consider while posting the first comment while on the go. Epicatechin on the other hand is something I've never changed my protein intake while taking, but still noticed positive results. Make sense?
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The worst side effect of laxogenin is wasted money.
the effect is so strong i cringe just thinking about it.
 
Any new research ever emerge about the possible anabolic effects of cissus?

If I remember correctly, it has the ability to decrease cortisol to an extent, thus aiding in muscle preservation during times of stress etc.
 
goodvibes said:
Although the taste is awesome I'm planning to get unflavored on all my future purchases that way I can mix it with my preworkout drink. Or... Get capped preworkouts then mix it with Ergonine. I have a few options in mind :)
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My flavourless version has turned up but I don't want to stop drinking nanaberry or blue ice lol.

The seal of the flavourless still remains in tact.

ericool007 said:
The worst side effect of laxogenin is wasted money.
the effect is so strong i cringe just thinking about it.
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lol'd :D
 
Capt Awesome said:
Sorry. I was agreeing with you. When I've taken laxogenin and oleuropein (both said to enhance nitrogen retention) I had to increase my protein intake to notice anything (the oleuropein study actually stated that 40% protein intake yielded the best results), but I had to discontinue the laxogenin because of sides. Like you said the effect I noticed could simply have been a result of my increased protein ingestion rather than the supplements. That's something I didn't consider while posting the first comment while on the go. Epicatechin on the other hand is something I've never changed my protein intake while taking, but still noticed positive results. Make sense?
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What kind of sides did you experience?
 
bdcc said:
My flavourless version has turned up but I don't want to stop drinking nanaberry or blue ice lol.

The seal of the flavourless still remains in tact.



lol'd :D
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I'd trade you I hve one of each I just dnt want to waste unnecessary shipping cost.
 
As far as matural anabolics, youd be a fool to pass up a Xgel PA combo ;)

I also just started about - epi run and will see how it treats me
 
For me, the best natural supplement is creatine monohydrate, no contest. It's very cheap too.

I liked epicatechin too, used OL Ep1c Unleashed transdermal. However, this was almost strictly endurance product for me, which is still incredibly useful in the gym. Keeps you fairly lean if you don't overeat.

Other supplements I've tried were hit or miss, but mostly miss unfortunately. I haven't felt much from laxogenin, for example.This is why I stick with the basics:

Multivitamin
Fish Oil
Creatine

Good natural test boosters work for libido. I find that they don't really boost test much - if at all. For me, those are mostly "feel good" products.
 
Lot of good info here along with a lot of good product suggestions. My problem/question with "natural" anabolics is the classification itself- none of these products are truly naturally available without the help of modern chemistry even if just to extract an element of super duper tree bark.

Just saying legal yes but natural is questionable. Chemical manipulation of any degree isn't natural..

Not being a hater as I use a variety of products and really believe aas may be safer than using unknown and unproven alternatives.
 
Heavychevss said:
Lot of good info here along with a lot of good product suggestions. My problem/question with "natural" anabolics is the classification itself- none of these products are truly naturally available without the help of modern chemistry even if just to extract an element of super duper tree bark.

Just saying legal yes but natural is questionable. Chemical manipulation of any degree isn't natural..

Not being a hater as I use a variety of products and really believe aas may be safer than using unknown and unproven alternatives.
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they're not chemically altered... They are isolated & extracted. There is a difference.

Its no different then eating sugar. Sugar is extracted from Sugar Cane. It doesnt look anything like it
does once it gets to the table for your coffee.
 
vujade said:
BLR Follidrone . it uses the highest grade (-)epi extract and BLR was the company that brought (-)epi
to the bodybuilding market. You should support companies that innovate, not duplicate..! :bigok:

.
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I think it was Evo Muse that first had it in a product. ;)
 
vujade said:
BLR Follidrone . it uses the highest grade (-)epi extract and BLR was the company that brought (-)epi
to the bodybuilding market. You should support companies that innovate, not duplicate..! :bigok:




a lot of their products are getting bad reviews lately...
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Damn are you BLR rep now :D ?

I hope new Follidrone show how much Epicatechin it is in each cap and I hope its NOT blended with Rice Flour.
I am not saying I doubt in BLR quality but personaly i would not buy a product where
Its not listed on the label the exact amount of the main active ingredient.

Another example is:
Some companies are selling plant/herb products and just writing (as example) Tribulus Terrestris on the label. Ttibulus what??? How much % of active S.saponins?which one? Etc...

Thats the main reason I love SNS.
 
Danes said:
Damn are you BLR rep now :D ?

I hope new Follidrone show how much Epicatechin it is in each cap and I hope its NOT blended with Rice Flour.
I am not saying I doubt in BLR quality but personaly i would not buy a product where
Its not listed on the label the exact amount of the main active ingredient.

Another example is:
Some companies are selling plant/herb products and just writing (as example) Tribulus Terrestris on the label. Ttibulus what??? How much % of active S.saponins?which one? Etc...

Thats the main reason I love SNS.
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Yes, I am..! For about 5 weeks now bro. Where you been my friend..? :bigok:

I understand completely about Folli. I don't think brundel was trying to fool customers or cheat them.

I believe he realized when he brought it to the market, there would be clones, and wanted to keep it
a trade secret for at least a little while, so he could enjoy some of the benefits of the R & D he put into
it, and so he could recoup some of the money invested, and slow down the clones a little.. :)

Now that (-)epi has been around a while, I can't speak for brundel directly, but I don't see any point
to keeping the quantity of epi a secret.

Yes, SNS makes some nice products that are clearly labeled and I use a few of them myself.
 
For (-)-epi Follidrone 4sure the first & the best epi on the market.
For 5alpha- hydroxy LAXO DermaStrenght.
AnaBeta Elite for AnaCyclus/F-95.
 
storm 011 said:
For (-)-epi Follidrone 4sure the first & the best epi on the market.
For 5alpha- hydroxy LAXO DermaStrenght.
AnaBeta Elite for AnaCyclus/F-95.
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I dont want to be rude but how is follidrone best EPI product on the marked?
How much mg does each cap contain? (Epicatechin)
 
vujade said:
Yes, I am..! For about 5 weeks now bro. Where you been my friend..? :bigok:

I understand completely about Folli. I don't think brundel was trying to fool customers or cheat them.

I believe he realized when he brought it to the market, there would be clones, and wanted to keep it
a trade secret for at least a little while, so he could enjoy some of the benefits of the R & D he put into
it, and so he could recoup some of the money invested, and slow down the clones a little.. :)

Now that (-)epi has been around a while, I can't speak for brundel directly, but I don't see any point
to keeping the quantity of epi a secret.

Yes, SNS makes some nice products that are clearly labeled and I use a few of them myself.
Click to expand...

Didnt actually know that my friend but I could guess since you have been spreading lot of BLR love around :)

I have been busy with music/production.
Gonna visit Estonia for Collab with a big trance producer. Looking forward to it:)
 
Danes said:
I dont want to be rude but how is follidrone best EPI product on the marked?
How much mg does each cap contain? (Epicatechin)
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Danes, the total content we'll never know, but BLR was the first to discover the compound and its success was deserved.
There was also a test conducted on Follidrone, and it has been shown that the content of (-) - epi was 99% pure.
then if the content per capsule is not high, you can always increase the dose to make up, problem solved ... IMO
Regarding the LAXO, I prefer Dermastrenght for the fact that I have not encountered sides ... the oral one causes me sides ..
and finally, AnaBeta Elite, great for its combination Anacyclus / F-95
 
storm 011 said:
Danes, the total content we'll never know, but BLR was the first to discover the compound and its success is well-deserved status.
There was also a test conducted on Follidrone, and it has been shown that the content of (-) - epi was 99% pure.
then if the content per capsule is not high, you can always increase the dose to make up, problem solved ... IMO
Regarding the LAXO, I prefer Dermastrenght for the fact that I have not encountered sides ... the oral one causes me sides ..
and finally, AnaBeta Elite, great for its combination Anacyclus / F-95
Click to expand...

Is there 3rd party testing results concluding 99% purity?
The reason why I some how doubt because I know the process (seen 1000 of HPLC / UV ) lab results and as with all compounds (even ecdysteroids,flavanoids,sterols etc)everything above 95% is overpriced!
I can give you an example:
Seen one brassinosteroid analogue where 98% purity was 2x the price compared to 90-95% .
I have seen companies claiming 99%. Maybe UV but not HPLC testing.
I am not saying BLR follidrone is not good quality. Not at all, but I doubt it is 99% (HPLC) tested.

I have seen with my own eyes a lab result from one vendor claiming their turkesterone is 98% pure. Sending to a different lab for analysis, the results shown 40% HPLC purity.

In many cases ,its not worth buying 98% or higher (raws) due to high cost. 90-95% would be more than enough and you will keep the costs lower and provide cheaper supplements
 
Danes said:
Is there 3rd party testing results concluding 99% purity?
The reason why I some how doubt because I know the process (seen 1000 of HPLC / UV ) lab results and as with all compounds (even ecdysteroids,flavanoids,sterols etc)everything above 95% is overpriced!
I can give you an example:
Seen one brassinosteroid analogue where 98% purity was 2x the price compared to 90-95% .
I have seen companies claiming 99%. Maybe UV but not HPLC testing.
I am not saying BLR follidrone is not good quality. Not at all, but I doubt it is 99% (HPLC) tested.

I have seen with my own eyes a lab result from one vendor claiming their turkesterone is 98% pure. Sending to a different lab for analysis, the results shown 40% HPLC purity.
Click to expand...
this is also true. Unfortunately, we consumers, we could never be sure 100%
most manufacturers only think about making money, which is why only buy products from brands that have a reputation, sometimes very expensive, but I'd rather pay a little more and have a quality product. I am hoping that it is ....
also because I try to avoid shoddy products, because of contamination with harmful substances and impurities. (or at least I hope)
 
storm 011 said:
this is also true. Unfortunately, we consumers, we could never be sure 100%
most manufacturers only think about making money, which is why only buy products from brands that have a reputation, sometimes very expensive, but I'd rather pay a little more and have a quality product. I am hoping that it is ....
also because I try to avoid shoddy products, because of contamination with harmful substances and impurities. (or at least I hope)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the polite discussion :)
I am not trying to be rude or anything
 
The only thing that draws my attention is when a product comes out and gets favorable reviews then the clones follow and it seems most products become hit or miss. Even from good companies, not just epi- but alot of products. Spiked at the beginning or clones underdosed? Just interesting not factual.
 
mase1 said:
The only thing that draws my attention is when a product comes out and gets favorable reviews then the clones follow and it seems most products become hit or miss. Even from good companies, not just epi- but alot of products. Spiked at the beginning or clones underdosed? Just interesting not factual.
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I would say most clones are either underdosed or using a lower quality extract.
If a company doesnt have the money to do R & D, what makes you think they
have the money to sell the same quality extract at the correct dosage for less
money then the innovating manufacturer...?

Things to me you go hmm....
 
My two cents is that I prefer Follidrone over another epi product I have tried...that said, it could be all placebo, who knows...

But I will say that I like my endurance and strength when taking Follidone.
 
So what is the deal with epicatechin then? Do you think this works, I'm extremely skeptical... Reminds me of GH products, which up until the recent secretagoges were probably snake oil.
 
vujade said:
Yes, I am..! For about 5 weeks now bro. Where you been my friend..? :bigok:

I understand completely about Folli. I don't think brundel was trying to fool customers or cheat them.

I believe he realized when he brought it to the market, there would be clones, and wanted to keep it
a trade secret for at least a little while, so he could enjoy some of the benefits of the R & D he put into
it, and so he could recoup some of the money invested, and slow down the clones a little.. :)

Now that (-)epi has been around a while, I can't speak for brundel directly, but I don't see any point
to keeping the quantity of epi a secret.

Yes, SNS makes some nice products that are clearly labeled and I use a few of them myself.
Click to expand...

Evomuse had it in their product in retail stores during Follidrone 's "beta" testing
 
vujade said:
I would say most clones are either underdosed or using a lower quality extract.
If a company doesnt have the money to do R & D, what makes you think they
have the money to sell the same quality extract at the correct dosage for less
money then the innovating manufacturer...?

Things to me you go hmm....
Click to expand...

1.) Purity means next to nothing with (-)-epi, when compared to absorption. EPI-PLEX uses piperine, OL uses a highly sophisticated technology, etc to solve this. When the absorption angle is addressed feedback goes from being hit/miss as it was with the old ep1c, to being a home run out of the ball park with the new version.

2.) 99% extracts are not commercially viable for reasons I'll go in to below but in addition to the first point I made before. Absorption is what you need to target. Not purity. A 99% pure extract still has terrible absorption at the end of the day.

3.) 99%+ extracts are also not commercially viable, and only viable when used as working standards for say HPLC testing. They are not viable because to produce a 99.9% pure extract you need to produce it g by g or even less (in mg) which inflates the price up to 30-100x as compared to a 95 or 90% extract. No manufacturer produces working standard material for the purpose of commercial batches as it would not be logical to do so.

To explain this in a more clear manner, we tested halo at 92% pure before where a manufacturer made a g or two to test out, however the commercial batch was 83-85% since a 92% batch would need to be done g by g, which is next to impossible.

I think you are confused that if you get a match on a compounds molecular weight you assume that it is 99.99% pure, this isn't the reality though

You don't see Sabinsa who manufactures forskolin trying to make a 100% forskolin, they make a 95% which is already very expensive, imagine how expensive it would be at "100%"

I say this with no bad feelings, but to spread misinformation, and read it, something has to be said.
 
Olympus Labs said:
1.) Purity means next to nothing with (-)-epi, when compared to absorption. EPI-PLEX uses piperine, OL uses a highly sophisticated technology, etc to solve this. When the absorption angle is addressed feedback goes from being hit/miss as it was with the old ep1c, to being a home run out of the ball park with the new version.

2.) 99% extracts are not commercially viable for reasons I'll go in to below but in addition to the first point I made before. Absorption is what you need to target. Not purity. A 99% pure extract still has terrible absorption at the end of the day.

3.) 99%+ extracts are also not commercially viable, and only viable when used as working standards for say HPLC testing. They are not viable because to produce a 99.9% pure extract you need to produce it g by g or even less (in mg) which inflates the price up to 30-100x as compared to a 95 or 90% extract. No manufacturer produces working standard material for the purpose of commercial batches as it would not be logical to do so.

To explain this in a more clear manner, we tested halo at 92% pure before where a manufacturer made a g or two to test out, however the commercial batch was 83-85% since a 92% batch would need to be done g by g, which is next to impossible.

I think you are confused that if you get a match on a compounds molecular weight you assume that it is 99.99% pure, this isn't the reality though

You don't see Sabinsa who manufactures forskolin trying to make a 100% forskolin, they make a 95% which is already very expensive, imagine how expensive it would be at "100%"

I say this with no bad feelings, but to spread misinformation, and read it, something has to be said.
Click to expand...

This makes sense, at the end of the day its about absorption. You can drink pure testosterone but wont absorb any of it.
 
Olympus Labs said:
1.) Purity means next to nothing with (-)-epi, when compared to absorption. EPI-PLEX uses piperine, OL uses a highly sophisticated technology, etc to solve this. When the absorption angle is addressed feedback goes from being hit/miss as it was with the old ep1c, to being a home run out of the ball park with the new version.

2.) 99% extracts are not commercially viable for reasons I'll go in to below but in addition to the first point I made before. Absorption is what you need to target. Not purity. A 99% pure extract still has terrible absorption at the end of the day.

3.) 99%+ extracts are also not commercially viable, and only viable when used as working standards for say HPLC testing. They are not viable because to produce a 99.9% pure extract you need to produce it g by g or even less (in mg) which inflates the price up to 30-100x as compared to a 95 or 90% extract. No manufacturer produces working standard material for the purpose of commercial batches as it would not be logical to do so.

To explain this in a more clear manner, we tested halo at 92% pure before where a manufacturer made a g or two to test out, however the commercial batch was 83-85% since a 92% batch would need to be done g by g, which is next to impossible.

I think you are confused that if you get a match on a compounds molecular weight you assume that it is 99.99% pure, this isn't the reality though

You don't see Sabinsa who manufactures forskolin trying to make a 100% forskolin, they make a 95% which is already very expensive, imagine how expensive it would be at "100%"

I say this with no bad feelings, but to spread misinformation, and read it, something has to be said.
Click to expand...

Totaly agree and this is what I tried to say in my earlier post.

Btw, Oral Epicatechin has not that bad bioavailability. It has proven to raise Follistatin levels (so the bioavailability is not so poor). But absorption could be MUCH better and its here Absorption Enhancers such as GTE,GSE,Piperine etc do their work.
 
Olympus Labs said:
1.) Purity means next to nothing with (-)-epi, when compared to absorption. EPI-PLEX uses piperine, OL uses a highly sophisticated technology, etc to solve this. When the absorption angle is addressed feedback goes from being hit/miss as it was with the old ep1c, to being a home run out of the ball park with the new version.

2.) 99% extracts are not commercially viable for reasons I'll go in to below but in addition to the first point I made before. Absorption is what you need to target. Not purity. A 99% pure extract still has terrible absorption at the end of the day.

3.) 99%+ extracts are also not commercially viable, and only viable when used as working standards for say HPLC testing. They are not viable because to produce a 99.9% pure extract you need to produce it g by g or even less (in mg) which inflates the price up to 30-100x as compared to a 95 or 90% extract. No manufacturer produces working standard material for the purpose of commercial batches as it would not be logical to do so.

To explain this in a more clear manner, we tested halo at 92% pure before where a manufacturer made a g or two to test out, however the commercial batch was 83-85% since a 92% batch would need to be done g by g, which is next to impossible.

I think you are confused that if you get a match on a compounds molecular weight you assume that it is 99.99% pure, this isn't the reality though

You don't see Sabinsa who manufactures forskolin trying to make a 100% forskolin, they make a 95% which is already very expensive, imagine how expensive it would be at "100%"

I say this with no bad feelings, but to spread misinformation, and read it, something has to be said.
Click to expand...

Nailed it!!
 
Olympus Labs said:
1.) Purity means next to nothing with (-)-epi, when compared to absorption. EPI-PLEX uses piperine, OL uses a highly sophisticated technology, etc to solve this. When the absorption angle is addressed feedback goes from being hit/miss as it was with the old ep1c, to being a home run out of the ball park with the new version.

2.) 99% extracts are not commercially viable for reasons I'll go in to below but in addition to the first point I made before. Absorption is what you need to target. Not purity. A 99% pure extract still has terrible absorption at the end of the day.

3.) 99%+ extracts are also not commercially viable, and only viable when used as working standards for say HPLC testing. They are not viable because to produce a 99.9% pure extract you need to produce it g by g or even less (in mg) which inflates the price up to 30-100x as compared to a 95 or 90% extract. No manufacturer produces working standard material for the purpose of commercial batches as it would not be logical to do so.

To explain this in a more clear manner, we tested halo at 92% pure before where a manufacturer made a g or two to test out, however the commercial batch was 83-85% since a 92% batch would need to be done g by g, which is next to impossible.

I think you are confused that if you get a match on a compounds molecular weight you assume that it is 99.99% pure, this isn't the reality though

You don't see Sabinsa who manufactures forskolin trying to make a 100% forskolin, they make a 95% which is already very expensive, imagine how expensive it would be at "100%"

I say this with no bad feelings, but to spread misinformation, and read it, something has to be said.
Click to expand...

This is why I love OL
 
Danes said:
Totaly agree and this is what I tried to say in my earlier post.

Btw, Oral Epicatechin has not that bad bioavailability. It has proven to raise Follistatin levels (so the bioavailability is not so poor). But absorption could be MUCH better and its here Absorption Enhancers such as GTE,GSE,Piperine etc do their work.
Click to expand...

Citrus juices such as lemon, orange and grapefruit aid in absorption as well. I always wash my ep1c down with a glass of orange juice.
 
Capt Awesome said:
Citrus juices such as lemon, orange and grapefruit aid in absorption as well. I always wash my ep1c down with a glass of orange juice.
Click to expand...
Yes, simple as ascorbic acid has been proven to increase absorption of flavanoids such as (-)Epi
 
Invalid Link Removed

Epicatechin, in EP1C Unleashed, creates a favorable environment in the body IMO. Endurance + pumps and the associated mentality = the gain train. Here's a good start: )
 
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