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SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

wasme said:
GW was linked to possibly causing cancer in mice when they were superdosed. From what I read the equivalent dosing for a 200lb male would be approximately 900 mg a day. Taking a 2 month supply of anything, in 24 hours isn't going to do anyone any good, no matter what you are ingesting.
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No, that was what was originally thought. GW can cause cancer at any dose.
 
T-Bone said:
The "severe adverse side effects" link in that article is not working right now for some reason. Well it worked before and that is where the most important information is.
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Not the hugest fan of WADA and consider most of what they say to be hyperbolic fear mongering... but I did find this elsewhere just now:

hindawi.com/journals/ppar/2010/571783/

relevant portion:

Mice maintained on a diet supplemented with PPARδ agonist GW501516 following carcinogen administration resulted in the rapid development of gastric tumors in 12/15 animals, whereas treatment with either GW501516 or DMBA alone was not tumorigenic (Table 1). To follow the onset and progression of tumorigenesis more precisely, five mice were monitored by MRI (Figure 1(a)). Tumors were visible as early as 19 days after beginning the GW501516 diet and appeared to initiate in the forestomach (Figure 1(a)). By 50 days, tumor had filled the stomach lumen, and by 56 days it had extravasated through the gastric wall (Figure 1(a)). Gross inspection of the stomach confirmed that the tumor was confined within the stomach at day 20 but had invaded through the stomach wall forming local metastases by day 56 (Figure 1(b)). Mice showed signs of morbidity between days 63 and 70 (mean survival 67 days), where metastases were present throughout the mesentery and adjacent serosal organ surfaces including the abdominal wall (Figure 1(b)).

Primary tumors and metastases were uniformly squamous cell carcinomas with varying degrees of keratinization (Figure 2(A)). Animals fed the GW501516 diet for six months without prior DMBA treatment did not exhibit hyperplasia or dysplasia (Figure 2(B)), and DMBA treatment alone produced squamous cell hyperplasia of the forestomach without signs of dysplasia (Figures 2(A) and 2(B)). No changes occurred in the gastric mucosa resulting from DMBA and GW501516 treatment alone (data not shown), and esophageal squamous epithelium was unaffected by DMBA treatment (Figure 2(B)). Gastric tumors were positive for the squamous basal cell marker CK14, and negative for the columnar epithelial cell marker CK18 [42] (Figure 2(C)).
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So it appears at least in this study, they administered DMBA, a known carcinogen, in order to create tumors. Once the tumors were created, GW made them way worse. However, mice treated with GW without the DMBA did not develop any cancer.
 
There is so much conflicting data on this subject and so many variables that can skew the argument one way or another it is crazy
here is one Invalid Link Removed
 
I'd have to agree that there is a lot of conflicting data. Still though people need to understand the risk involved. I took GW and didn't really like it. Also I took it knowing the cancer risk so maybe I'm a bit of an idiot. I see no problem with spreading this information around though so others can know and also understand the risk in taking such a drug.
 
Sorry guys, didn't mean to open this can of worms again.. It seems to me that proper dosing, and short term use (as advised by Olympus 4-12 weeks) should not pose a threat. As McCrew530 says this argument can go which ever way...
 
T-Bone said:
I'd have to agree that there is a lot of conflicting data. Still though people need to understand the risk involved. I took GW and didn't really like it. Also I took it knowing the cancer risk so maybe I'm a bit of an idiot. I see no problem with spreading this information around though so others can know and also understand the risk in taking such a drug.
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Absolutely. People need to know the potential effects and side effects of what they put into their body. Even if there is a chance that something may happen they should know that it could.
 
T-Bone said:
I'd have to agree that there is a lot of conflicting data. Still though people need to understand the risk involved. I took GW and didn't really like it. Also I took it knowing the cancer risk so maybe I'm a bit of an idiot. I see no problem with spreading this information around though so others can know and also understand the risk in taking such a drug.
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Absolutely people should be informed of the risks, and aware of the inconclusive and conflicting data. Your 'GW can cause cancer at any dose" statement sounded pretty certain, though, so I was just wondering if you had any good studies supporting that claim that I hadn't come across yet.
 
warpyfunch said:
Absolutely people should be informed of the risks, and aware of the inconclusive and conflicting data. Your 'GW can cause cancer at any dose" statement sounded pretty certain, though, so I was just wondering if you had any good studies supporting that claim that I hadn't come across yet.
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Yeah I was just repeating what I've read though. Didn't mean for it to be a statement directly from me. I should have said "I read" first.
 
Just throwing this one out there, even though it has nothing to do with cancer, but I think it's interesting that this stuff was being used in human studies as recently as 2012, which is well after the cancer studies in mice were conducted:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22814748?dopt=Abstract

And here's an ancient one from 2007 making a pretty definitive claim that GW does not cause cancer:
www *dot* cmtc.psu.edu/peters_group/publications/17.pdf
 
I was watching a video on YouTube from this guy sets Williams or somethin like that n he said lgd4033 shouldn't cause hpta shut down or gyno??
And if that happen probably that lgd is not totally pure, how true is that ?
 
hamdysayed said:
I was watching a video on YouTube from this guy sets Williams or somethin like that n he said lgd4033 shouldn't cause hpta shut down or gyno??
And if that happen probably that lgd is not totally pure, how true is that ?
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Complete and total bs
 
hamdysayed said:
I was watching a video on YouTube from this guy sets Williams or somethin like that n he said lgd4033 shouldn't cause hpta shut down or gyno??
And if that happen probably that lgd is not totally pure, how true is that ?
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If you learn how sarms work you will realize that there's no way in heck they don't cause a degree of suppression , the good side is the lack of effects on LH and FSH
 
Joedoubledose said:
If you learn how sarms work you will realize that there's no way in heck they don't cause a degree of suppression , the good side is the lack of effects on LH and FSH
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Exactly. Suppression will occur but recovery should be pretty quick and easy
 
Joedoubledose said:
If you learn how sarms work you will realize that there's no way in heck they don't cause a degree of suppression , the good side is the lack of effects on LH and FSH
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Well that's ostarine. Lgd and s4 both effected LH but not as much regular anabolics. Although from the studies i have read none effected FSH.
 
Based on what he said if u don't dose that high u should be good, but if u dose it high like 8 mg+ then yeah.
seth Williams is his name.
 
hamdysayed said:
Based on what he said if u don't dose that high u should be good, but if u dose it high like 8 mg+ then yeah.
seth Williams is his name.
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It is really user dependant but even ostarine has been shown to be suppressive at 3mg. Any exogenous hormone you put in your body is going to disrupt your natural hormones. It's just how our negative feedback loop in our bodies works
 
yates84 said:
It is really user dependant but even ostarine has been shown to be suppressive at 3mg. Any exogenous hormone you put in your body is going to disrupt your natural hormones. It's just how our negative feedback loop in our bodies works
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I see, thanks man I found it weird that he said that but anyways, what he said also that u can make gainz as much as 16 lbs that's crazy.
He also claims it's better than steroids like test etc.
 
hamdysayed said:
I see, thanks man I found it weird that he said that but anyways, what he said also that u can make gainz as much as 16 lbs that's crazy.
He also claims it's better than steroids like test etc.
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He has no idea what he is talking about, sucks that people put this kind of info out there. I have also seen guys suggest running sarms in between ph/aas cycles. This is one of the many reasons I wanted to get this thread going
 
yates84 said:
He has no idea what he is talking about, sucks that people put this kind of info out there. I have also seen guys suggest running sarms in between ph/aas cycles. This is one of the many reasons I wanted to get this thread going
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When he said it's better than test that's when I paused I was like this is not making sense, also he says mk677 is really potent and he enjoyed it more than when he ran hgh injections, so he can be pimping SARMs in general .
 
hamdysayed said:
When he said it's better than test that's when I paused I was like this is not making sense, also he says mk677 is really potent and he enjoyed it more than when he ran hgh injections, so he can be pimping SARMs in general .
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That was my first thought, he must be some kind of rep. This stuff is going to sell regardless, why give people bad info that could potentially screw their bodies up? Just bad business all the way around
 
hamdysayed said:
When he said it's better than test that's when I paused I was like this is not making sense, also he says mk677 is really potent and he enjoyed it more than when he ran hgh injections, so he can be pimping SARMs in general .
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When William Lewins says it I will have much more faith in it.
 
wasme said:
Sorry guys, didn't mean to open this can of worms again.. It seems to me that proper dosing, and short term use (as advised by Olympus 4-12 weeks) should not pose a threat. As McCrew530 says this argument can go which ever way...
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still not sure which side of the fence I land on with this... rethinking running this now.
 
T-Bone said:
Holy crap. I don't know what the hell you were taking but it definitely wasn't ostarine!
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Mate of mine said he felt amazing on it too! 20mg IronLabs 4 weeks. Sky high libido, and loads of energy. Not a god or alpha complex tho hahH
 
AdelV said:
Mate of mine said he felt amazing on it too! 20mg IronLabs 4 weeks. Sky high libido, and loads of energy. Not a god or alpha complex tho hahH
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You guys don't make it easy to look at this bottle of osta every day! Off time is hard, especially with all kinds of ph/ds/sarms laying around
 
yates84 said:
You guys don't make it easy to look at this bottle of osta every day! Off time is hard, especially with all kinds of ph/ds/sarms laying around
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from ur experience does ostarine cause shut down?
I want to use it for recomp with mk677, I don't mean to be annoying with this paranoid behaviour just trying these things for first time n more worried that's all.
 
hamdysayed said:
from ur experience does ostarine cause shut down?
I want to use it for recomp with mk677, I don't mean to be annoying with this paranoid behaviour just trying these things for first time n more worried that's all.
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Nothing wrong with being over cautious when it comes to your body! Suppression was very minimal for me but that is something that is very user dependant. Even if you do get suppressed just pct properly and you should be fine. Have clomid and exemestane on hand if you are running any kind of hormonal product, the more prepared you are the better you can deal with anything that comes up
 
hamdysayed said:
from ur experience does ostarine cause shut down?
I want to use it for recomp with mk677, I don't mean to be annoying with this paranoid behaviour just trying these things for first time n more worried that's all.
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ostarine definitely causes suppression, which i've experienced both times i've run it. i've never heard of anyone being completely shutdown from it, though. It doesn't seem to affect FSH or LH much if at all, and recovery is extremely fast with a proper serm pct.
 
Damn even tho it's mild sarm!!
My problem is I'm not even comfortable using clomid nor ai if I'm going through all that might as well run test e, tryna keep it minimal that's why I started with mk677.
well **** no osta for me then
 
warpyfunch said:
ostarine definitely causes suppression, which i've experienced both times i've run it. i've never heard of anyone being completely shutdown from it, though. It doesn't seem to affect FSH or LH much if at all, and recovery is extremely fast with a proper serm pct.
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I was wonder if it doesn't affect LH and FSH how does is suppress test. I know it does have seen plenty of blood work showing that. Does it desensitize the lydeing cells? Or is something else?
 
mixedup said:
yates84
Hey if I wanted to run maxgh and rad but would the 2nd ingredient in gh compete with rad?
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Mass gh is lgd and mk677, the rad and lgd may compete for receptors. Personally, I would run either rad or lgd with the mk677, not both
 
So you would get the mass. Or buy the ghenarine and radarine seperately. What doses for experinenting.
 
mixedup said:
So you would get the mass. Or buy the ghenarine and radarine seperately. What doses for experinenting.
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Start low and work your way up and you will be gtg. I'm ready to give away some bottles of rad for people to log, will be posting a logging opportunity real soon for some guys to run rad solo
 
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