I'd say Dave Gulledge would be a good example...The main question I have is that if you put a PLer on the same amount and type of gear that a BBer uses, could you have a large PLer who looks like a BBer?
I'd say Dave Gulledge would be a good example...The main question I have is that if you put a PLer on the same amount and type of gear that a BBer uses, could you have a large PLer who looks like a BBer?
Funnily enough, ive read that and I agree completely with It. In saying that, my main point is that doing both can still produce results (look at dave tate or other PLers who then lean out).Here's an old article from Bret Contreras and Brad Schoenfeld:
https://www.t-nation.com/training/why-bodybuilders-are-more-jacked-than-powerlifters
I think I heard Arnold say this in one of his training videos, when he talks about training to failure every set. Seems to workSo basically the last few reps are the ones that gives you the results.
One of the reasons why rest-pause can be so effective; it keeps you in the fatigue zone without sacrificing tension/load, and you get significantly more effective reps for every rep you do compared to straight sets.I believe its not quantity, but quality that counts when I w/o
This means.. make every rep count, not just going thru motions, use pre stretch and squeeze at the top! I also read somewhere about 'effective reps' (maybe on here? not sure lol)
So basically the last few reps are the ones that gives you the results.
LmaoThis morning I did 100 reps for each bicep with a can of baked beans and got an incredible pump. I did notice some hypertrophy this evening.
Imagine the gains you would have made if you actually had eaten the beansThis morning I did 100 reps for each bicep with a can of baked beans and got an incredible pump. I did notice some hypertrophy this evening.
Spinach>Imagine the gains you would have made if you actually had eaten the beans
lol Hell yes! that deep soreness!I always used to stick to volume training, but when I added in strength training (1-5 rep range) with volume work, $hit got real.
Plus there can be a degree of fibre conversion.lol Hell yes! that deep soreness!
i agree, fastwitch slowtwitch, even thogh they say you do enough reps youll eventually hit the fasttwitch as the slow twitch ones begin to fail... i still prefer to hit them at 110% jst like muscle groups
the reason you would stop is so you can add more frequency during the week and increase your overall volume higher rather than going to failure every training session, resulting in lower volume.^^^ most advanced bodybuilders that ive met or seen train will say its not how much you do, but how you do it. The last time i asked my mentor how many reps he laughed and said when your f#&$kn your girl you hit it till you cant anymore right? So when you lift do the same. Its a based off feeling and intensity. If you do two sets of 10, then on your third set your pump is crazy and you feel you can do five more, why would you stop?
No one said anything about lower volume...the reason you would stop is so you can add more frequency during the week and increase your overall volume higher rather than going to failure every training session, resulting in lower volume.
When you train to failure every session you limit your ability to add volume....No one said anything about lower volume...
squat everyday till failure? Once again no one said anything about that Smh.When you train to failure every session you limit your ability to add volume....
try squatting everyday to failure and let me know how that works out for ya
I was just responding to what you said you're mentor told you
you're still missing the whole concept. Yes great, you see guys from jail training to failure every set. awesome. I'm not saying you should never train to failure. It is a great tool to use, just not all the time.squat everyday till failure? Once again no one said anything about that Smh.
On the topic of volume: ive seen dudes come home from jail time and time again who dont have science supplements or excessive nutrition, and they are brolic as all h3!! . these dudes do an absurd amount of volume and train every set till they cant do anymore. They acheive hypertrophy.
All i said was that specifying a rep range cant limit you and its best to listen to your body. If your supposed to do 10 reps and you can do 11, why wouldnt you? Because some cookie cutter plan told you to do 10? Listen to your body.
I would think - and I say this non argumentatively. That you would do 10 so that you're staying behind the curve. You don't have to train at 100% to get gains. It's better to do 10 when you can do 11, and 11 when you can do 12. And so on and so forth so you can always progress. Instead of running yourself down progressing faster than you can continually maintain.squat everyday till failure? Once again no one said anything about that Smh.
On the topic of volume: ive seen dudes come home from jail time and time again who dont have science supplements or excessive nutrition, and they are brolic as all h3!! . these dudes do an absurd amount of volume and train every set till they cant do anymore. They acheive hypertrophy.
All i said was that specifying a rep range cant limit you and its best to listen to your body. If your supposed to do 10 reps and you can do 11, why wouldnt you? Because some cookie cutter plan told you to do 10? Listen to your body.
No lol. Im all the way good. Good luck to you.you're still missing the whole concept. Yes great, you see guys from jail training to failure every set. awesome. I'm not saying you should never train to failure. It is a great tool to use, just not all the time.
You can train to failure and still do what YOU might consider high volume (high volume for one person may not be high volume to another). You would be able to do even more volume if you didn't train to failure every set/workout. What do you not understand about this? Perhaps do some research into daily undulating periodization. Mike Zourdos and Ben Esgro are a great place to start.
The "statement running yourself down" would never happen when you listen to your body. Which is my point exactly. Listen to your body. Recovery is the most vital part to growth.I would think - and I say this non argumentatively. That you would do 10 so that you're staying behind the curve. You don't have to train at 100% to get gains. It's better to do 10 when you can do 11, and 11 when you can do 12. And so on and so forth so you can always progress. Instead of running yourself down progressing faster than you can continually maintain.
100 bro. U hit the nail on the headWell I guess as interesting as these discussions can be in terms of trying to establish some sort of universal objective best practice standard, at the end of the day no-one can really argue against anything that "works best for the individual".
that's it man. not one person is the same as the other. it depends what side of the street your standing on, what you had for breakfast, what is going on in your life, your age, your genetics, your goals and so much more when your discussing what works for YOU, or what works for ME or anyone else for that matter.Well I guess as interesting as these discussions can be in terms of trying to establish some sort of universal objective best practice standard, at the end of the day no-one can really argue against anything that "works best for the individual".
The best gains I've experienced was all under 6 reps and in muscle groups that many would think that high reps would work better, like lats, quads and even bi's. but as you said all I did for years before that was lift above 8 reps...That is true to a degree. What can muddy the issue is that the same person can react differently to different rep ranges of the span of their lifting career. So IMO what is most important is how long have they been lifting and what have they mainly used in the past.
you got that right! ive even gone from weight training to just doing body squats and body weight lunges and calf raises and got my legs sore as **** instead of using weight,Best gains I've made have come whenever I changed something up within the training. Anything 'new' the body responds very well to IMO.
I agree, I've actually stuckwith a one muscle group a day 5 days a week program and will go a couple weeks at p to 85% 1RM weight and basically I can tell right away that my body needs something differen wether it be a 2-5 rep day mixed with high rep burnot sets, or 8-12 all day with super/tri/quad sets, sometimes throw in drop sets the last couple moves I do, sometimes throw in 75-100rep sets.. but sticking to the main plan always (back/chest/legs & core/shoulders/arms/xtra credit possibly cardio/HIIT/tabata day once or twice a month and this has worked for me for the last 4-6 years, as well as several people I have trained with minor adjustments to suit them and their weaknesses..Yeah I've just gone from the typical hypertrophy training to lifting heavy as **** type training and I can see and feel the difference quickly. But this will only work until it doesn't then mix things up again. No need to mix things up any less than once a month though. Some guys get carried away
Good good answer.More volume is better for hypertrophy. The question is, how do I achieve more volume? The short term answer is high rep ranges (easier to do 10 sets of 10 reps than 100 sets of your 1RM). The long term answer is if you periodize your training you can "get stronger" which will allow you to lift more weight for any given number of sets/reps, and thus achieve more volume with the same number of reps/sets.
So overnight: high reps
Long term: smart periodized training, injury prevention, etc.
Putting an arbitrary number on something like that is silly seeing as its a highly individualised variable.I was talking to my trainer about this today and he said about 70 reps per muscle group in total is a good goal to aim for. Too much or too less is not ideal for muscles to be stimulated. 70 QUALITY reps though. and most routines would divide this into 3-4 sets.
I like hewhoisripped; post as well
the latest series from Erick Helms is saying also that 40-70 is enough for muscle growth? for natural athletes though. so its not as random as it sounds. I suppose the point he was trying to teach me is that more is not always better.Putting an arbitrary number on something like that is silly seeing as its a highly individualised variable.
Im not sure who he is? Anyways you have stated it yourself in the bolded above, more is not always better, but for some more is better. Which falls back on my statement that it an individualised phenomena.the latest series from Erick Helms is saying also that 40-70 is enough for muscle growth? for natural athletes though. so its not as random as it sounds. I suppose the point he was trying to teach me is that more is not always better.
For sure, my body can take a beating like no other and still spring back. High volume like 10x10 twice a week, even messed around with 500+reps. Age plays a big role in this as well.Putting an arbitrary number on something like that is silly seeing as its a highly individualised variable.
Good post.I agree, I've actually stuckwith a one muscle group a day 5 days a week program and will go a couple weeks at p to 85% 1RM weight and basically I can tell right away that my body needs something differen wether it be a 2-5 rep day mixed with high rep burnot sets, or 8-12 all day with super/tri/quad sets, sometimes throw in drop sets the last couple moves I do, sometimes throw in 75-100rep sets.. but sticking to the main plan always (back/chest/legs & core/shoulders/arms/xtra credit possibly cardio/HIIT/tabata day once or twice a month and this has worked for me for the last 4-6 years, as well as several people I have trained with minor adjustments to suit them and their weaknesses..
I really think that TRULY getting in sync with your body/the mind muscle connection/feeling out your weaknesses for the day and possible borderline injuries to prevent by not doing too much weight or reps, possibly not working that area at all or possibly switching the day completely up for an entire different muscle group, maybe even taking the day off if you feel your CNS isn't recovered enough and your immune system is just going to crash and get you sick... once I really discovered that, I've ALWAYS got the fll 110% out of my routines and avoided MAJOR problems for many years to come but noticing the slightest discomfort or awkwardness.. from experience I learned the hard way years ago my body was ttellin me to leave it alone and within a couple sets BAM! surprise(but no surprise, I told ya so)body says lol...
hope this helps some of you all out
yates84 mrkleen73 nbshazeezee mixedup jdg76
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
you guys in this tthread?? really interesting and good info/debate!
thanks man, appreciate it! everytime I train someone or people ask me about "what do you do" I try to explain that mind muscle to them, cause without it and proper form, your never gonna get it right and your going to set yourself up for more injuries then anything..Good post.