Does anybody not get gyno?

Gstyle24

Member
It seems all I've been reading in most threads are people getting rebound gyno from their cycles, even after dosing proper PCT...

So I would like to try and hear some successful stories from people that have possibly never had any signs of gyno after doing these cycles... and if so, maybe share your PCT and what you did AFTER the PCT to prevent the rebound.
 
Gstyle24 said:
It seems all I've been reading in most threads are people getting rebound gyno from their cycles, even after dosing proper PCT...

So I would like to try and hear some successful stories from people that have possibly never had any signs of gyno after doing these cycles... and if so, maybe share your PCT and what you did AFTER the PCT to prevent the rebound.
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It's all user dependant. I like how Pete Rubish put it. You WILL get either gyno, Acne or something else that I'm just not remembering right now haha. But when people get gyno After pct it's usually 1-2 things:
They didn't taper their SERM so they're getting estrogen rebound from the SERM, as they raise estrogen.
They also probably didn't use an AI in pct or slightly after to keep rebound from happening.
 
Have all the necessary ancillaries on hand. I started getting gyno during my last cycle, dosed up my exemestane and ralox and my problem disappeared. I think lack of preparation is alot of the problem
 
^^^Agreed. I have never had gyno or any signs...yet. Of course I've only got 3 cycles under my belt. I researched and took every precaution possible. I kept the PH at minimum dose and duration. I believe a majority of gyno flares are due either to being genetically prone, too high bodyfat at beginning of cycle, or improper cycle supports/insufficient PCT. as cycles get longer and higher dosed or multiple stacks the risk increases. That's why I haven't had a flare...yet. I fully expect to in the future as my cycles get more complex. The key is to be prepared beforehand. Have what you need and know how to treat it. Understand completely the risks with each compound or combo and check your bloods regularly.
 
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I've never had gyno or anything even close to it...knock on wood. As was mentioned above some people will get it and some won't. Some people will go bald and some won't. Some people can put on copious amounts of mass and guys like me just get leaner and leaner, while getting stronger and stronger. I had a buddy who could lift and eat roast beef sandwhiches for a couple of weeks and look like he was running some serious gear (he wasn't). I will never be able to do that. Genetics are so incredibly important in the world of bodybuilding and this translates over to how our bodies react to different compounds.

For me, I like to preach taper, taper, taper. I do long tapers on my SERM's and AI's and even natty test boosters. Tapering allows the body to not only normalize but to stabilize as well. I have no problem runninng my nolva at 5mg for an extra couple of weeks if I feel the need to do so. Even with things like suicidal AI's, I will taper those things as well and I don't care what anybody has to say about it. Any type of hormonal agent introduces changes within our endocrine system. These changes also go far beyond what we think they do. For example, when (some) people take an AI, they tend to assume that they're only affecting estrogen/test levels and ratios. For me, I realize that agents we use on cycle and in PCT will affect so may different processes within the body. Levels of prolactin, SHBG, FSH, LH, cortisol levels, liver enzymes, thyroid hormones, dopamine levels, etc etc, all get thrown out of wack when we introduce foreign substances/hormones into our bodies, whether for short and especially extended periods of time. When we decide to end our PCT and suddenly stop taking 5 different compounds, we can expect that certain things are going to happen inside of us. The hope is that we have kept things within range of where they should be and that we have tapered off accordingly. Another thing to consider is that a lot of the problems people encounter in PCT are actually born during cycle but only come out to play during PCT or even after we are done with PCT. Knowing your body and how it reacts to various compounds is so very important. Especially before introducing so many new compounds to the mix.

I also believe in the approach of simplicity. More is definitely not better as far as I'm concerned. Learn what works for you and add compounds as you gain more experience. I see far too many people running upwards of 10 different compounds per cycle and then running everything under the sun in PCT. How is your body supposed to know how to deal with all of these compounds at the same time. Not to mention, how could you know what positives and negatives each substance is bringing about when you can't even keep track off all of the crap you're ingesting.

One final thought on PCT. I believe that far too many people assume that their cookie-cutter 4 week PCT of 50/50/25/25 or 20/20/10/10 along with a natty T booster and maybe an AI is just what the doctor ordered. It usually is but I guarantee you there are people out there that have not fully recovered from their steroid cycles but assume they have because, well, their bottle of Nolva is done. They way in which we react to PCT is no different than how we all react to various different compounds and how some of us get gyno at the first sniff of Test while others can run 500mg a week and never have the need of an AI. Some people will recover very quickly and some people may struggle for months with low libido and gyno and a whole host of negative sides, despite haveing run the "mandated" cookie-cutter PCT.

The body is certainly an incredible machine and usually seems to work itself out, inspite of what we do to it. I just think we should help it out by tapering off of the substances that we throw at it. Especially when we are taking multiple different things at the same time.

At the end of the day, messing with the genetic blueprint that the world has blessed us with by way of swallowing pills from a $40 bottle of "dietary supplement" is nothing more than a crapshoot for most of us, without years and years of experience. The best we can do is research, have all of the necessary/emergency supplements onboard, trust that our gear is legit and pray that the 'Lord' has blessed us with the ability to look like Arnold while never having to worry about boobies...unless of course they belong to the lady who is admiring our Arnold-like physique.

Ok, I'm done now. Oh ya - taper, taper taper and K.I.S.S.
 
Been lucky so far, just using proper dosages, hydration, cycle support and pct
 
Never let anyone tell you that if you've always had low BF you're not "gyno prone".

Real gyno is glandular tissue, and has nothing to do with BF levels.

I was about 10% before I even started lifting. I now have minor gyno in 1 nip after a botched test cycle. Currently on a SERM regimen. Luckily, this lump is not too noticeable. It's more the puffy nip that is noticeable when it flares up. Nothing you'd ever see through a t-shirt though.
 
As folks have noted, be wise and have the necessary ancillaries ON HAND BEFORE CYCLE STARTS. Outside of that, listen to your body, take proper time off, and make sure bloods are square before starting another cycle.
 
My understanding of it is if your prone you'll get it if your not you wont. Just like hair loss. I get hair loss on cycle, but I don't get gyno (at least not so far).
 
hide83 said:
My understanding of it is if your prone you'll get it if your not you wont. Just like hair loss. I get hair loss on cycle, but I don't get gyno (at least not so far).
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I think if your prone to aromatizaton you'll have a tougher time dealing with it. Unlike MPB which some people are genetically disposed to. As long as proper measures are taken one shouldn't get gyno. As many have stated before, have the proper things on hand for the cycle your running and always be prepared to combat any sides.
 
So would you want to run both the AI and SERM in pct together, or should the AI be taken on cycle?? What is the most effective approach to preventing gyno?
 
AI would be used on cycle if running a heavily aromatizing compound. Otherwise I would run in PCT past the SERM and taper down. I would always have one on hand for any cycle though for emergency.
 
My nips lit the F up on week 2 of halo and I ran low dose exem until a couple weeks past pct w/o furthur issue. HAVE A GOOD AI ON HAND!
 
Volvo140G said:
My nips lit the F up on week 2 of halo and I ran low dose exem until a couple weeks past pct w/o furthur issue. HAVE A GOOD AI ON HAND!
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Considering halo itself doesn't aromatize. Here's my theory on this. Body senses extremely high levels of androgens and upgregulates its production of aromatase. At a much quicker rate than the body can down regulate test production. Hence a higher ratio of E to T. My thoughts anyway. Would love to hear opinions as this is totally and completely a theory lol.
ETA- also part of the reason why I think Epistane is notorious for estro rebound.
 
Gstyle24 said:
It seems all I've been reading in most threads are people getting rebound gyno from their cycles, even after dosing proper PCT...

So I would like to try and hear some successful stories from people that have possibly never had any signs of gyno after doing these cycles... and if so, maybe share your PCT and what you did AFTER the PCT to prevent the rebound.
Click to expand...

I run AI during cycle, stop at PCT ( when i did pct, now im on hrt) and have had no issues since using and dialing in AI use.
rebound? after PCT your body is still trying to level out. if there is some sensitivity run low dose SERM like 10mg tamox ed for an extra week or two.
 
Blergs said:
I run AI during cycle, stop at PCT ( when i did pct, now im on hrt) and have had no issues since using and dialing in AI use.
rebound? after PCT your body is still trying to level out. if there is some sensitivity run low dose SERM like 10mg tamox ed for an extra week or two.
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But wouldn't a serm only help estrogen to not bind to breast tissue, not lower circulating estrogen. Considering higher estrogen lowers the bodies production of testosterone it would it make sense to run an AI in pct past your serm?
 
I believe I experienced the onset of Progesterone/Prolcatin related Gyno in the last few weeks of both my M-Dien cycles. The first time I started using Nolvadex early along with Mucuna pruriens and B6 which got rid of nipple sensitivity within a week and the small lump that had began to form disappeared after two weeks. The second time through I ran the Mucuna pruriens and B6 from the start but still had the Gyno symptoms appear a little later in the cycle. I just added the Nolvadex and again it sorted itself out quickly.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this one but my understanding was that an AI wouldn't have helped me in these instances as M-Dien wasn't aromatising? I did have some Arimidex in the draw but I decided to save that for another time. My next cycle I was intending to stack Diabolix (45mg) with Halo (75mg). Would the Arimidex be useful during that cycle and if so at what point?
 
EDBANGER said:
I believe I experienced the onset of Progesterone/Prolcatin related Gyno in the last few weeks of both my M-Dien cycles. The first time I started using Nolvadex early along with Mucuna pruriens and B6 which got rid of nipple sensitivity within a week and the small lump that had began to form disappeared after two weeks. The second time through I ran the Mucuna pruriens and B6 from the start but still had the Gyno symptoms appear a little later in the cycle. I just added the Nolvadex and again it sorted itself out quickly.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this one but my understanding was that an AI wouldn't have helped me in these instances as M-Dien wasn't aromatising? I did have some Arimidex in the draw but I decided to save that for another time. My next cycle I was intending to stack Diabolix (45mg) with Halo (75mg). Would the Arimidex be useful during that cycle and if so at what point?
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I'm sure someone smarter than I will chime in. But from my understanding you can only get gyno when estrogen is too high, whether it's prolactin related or not isn't an issue. That being said you can have all the other sides of high prolactin but no gyno if estro is in check. I don't know enough about diabolix to chime in on that.
 
Blergs said:
I run AI during cycle, stop at PCT ( when i did pct, now im on hrt) and have had no issues since using and dialing in AI use.
rebound? after PCT your body is still trying to level out. if there is some sensitivity run low dose SERM like 10mg tamox ed for an extra week or two.
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This, works every time for me. People have to realize the body is working on its own via the cyp 450 family of enzymes to metabolize any excess estrogen that would be present. This happens relatively quickly. Far more quickly that gyno could every form.
Thats another thing. People have to understand what gyno is. It isnt swollen breast tissue or sensitive breast tissue is is the formation and presence or a fiberous mass in breast tissue. Quite often what people refer to as "gyno" is in fact not gyno at all. There are certain times in your cycle, primarily in the beginning and at the end , where hormonal fluctuations are taking place and the aforementioned conditions will occur and people jump to the erroneous conclusion that it is gyno and start throwing compounds at it unnecessarily. Thats a big mistake. Then you are chasing your tail.
Following what you have outlined has worked for years. I do not feel there is a place for an ai at all in pct. The estrogen agonist and antagonist activity serms provide are optimal for restoring hpta function and the body on its own, will metabolize any excess estrogen long before gyno could form. It doesnt occur overnight. Gyno takes time to actually form.
Excellent post Blergs!
 
I'm loving this forum already. Learning lots.

Stanley G, what is the fiberous mass in breast tissue then? I've attributed to gyno in the past but at the same time the fact that it did disappear after a few weeks of Nolva use made me wonder why people have surgery to remove Gyno.
 
EDBANGER said:
I'm loving this forum already. Learning lots.

Stanley G, what is the fiberous mass in breast tissue then? I've attributed to gyno in the past but at the same time the fact that it did disappear after a few weeks of Nolva use made me wonder why people have surgery to remove Gyno.
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If caught ealry enough this is what happens. You see the mass requires estrogen not only to form but to survive as well. If caught early enough and a serm is used it essentially "starves" the mass of e2 that it needs to continue to grow and even survive.
Well then , as you rightly ask, why ever get surgery? Because it seems once the mass reaches a certain point it is already formed and even starving it of e2 will only serve to prevent its growth and even the very slight amount of e2 that reaches it while using a serm allows it to continue to survive. That is the point by which surgery is your only option to remove said mass (or gyno). Thats why it is important to catch gyno early but it has become a bit over the top. People are so paranoid that any sensitivity or tenderness or swollen tissue is referred to incorrectly as gyno.
If users follow the protocol Blergs outlined they effectively minimize & virtually eliminate the possibility of gyno forming.
In order to prevent gyno you have to utilize blood work on cycle, once you educate yourself and you know the conditions by which gyno is capable of forming you can get a hormonal snapshot of where you are and ensure by utilizing the proper ancillaries you create a state where you can achieve an anabolic environment that is conditionally not conducive to the formation of gyno. Thats the goal and it can be achieved and managed by simply utilizing blood work and accurately assessing symptoms combined with the proper use of the correct ancillaries..
 
Canes325 said:
But wouldn't a serm only help estrogen to not bind to breast tissue, not lower circulating estrogen. Considering higher estrogen lowers the bodies production of testosterone it would it make sense to run an AI in pct past your serm?
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test coverts to estro right? during and passed PCT your test is crashed, meaning an AI would be crashing what estrogen you have left. yes serm only block the estro, giving time for body to level out. using AI during or passed PCT will likely only cause issues IMO. and an AI is what may have rebound in some cases. so no its better to run serm passed your AI . : )
 
StanleyG said:
This, works every time for me. People have to realize the body is working on its own via the cyp 450 family of enzymes to metabolize any excess estrogen that would be present. This happens relatively quickly. Far more quickly that gyno could every form.
Thats another thing. People have to understand what gyno is. It isnt swollen breast tissue or sensitive breast tissue is is the formation and presence or a fiberous mass in breast tissue. Quite often what people refer to as "gyno" is in fact not gyno at all. There are certain times in your cycle, primarily in the beginning and at the end , where hormonal fluctuations are taking place and the aforementioned conditions will occur and people jump to the erroneous conclusion that it is gyno and start throwing compounds at it unnecessarily. Thats a big mistake. Then you are chasing your tail.
Following what you have outlined has worked for years. I do not feel there is a place for an ai at all in pct. The estrogen agonist and antagonist activity serms provide are optimal for restoring hpta function and the body on its own, will metabolize any excess estrogen long before gyno could form. It doesnt occur overnight. Gyno takes time to actually form.
Excellent post Blergs!
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Very well put and i agree!
and thank you!!
 
Blergs said:
test coverts to estro right? during and passed PCT your test is crashed, meaning an AI would be crashing what estrogen you have left. yes serm only block the estro, giving time for body to level out. using AI during or passed PCT will likely only cause issues IMO. and an AI is what may have rebound in some cases. so no its better to run serm passed your AI . : )
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If your test is crashed during and after PCT, your PCT was not successful and you should definitely not be using an AI. Your PCT (SERM etc.) should bring you back into your normal range, if not slightly above. With all of the test boosters and things people use in PCT, there can definitely be a rapid elevation in estrogen and that level can get higher than your body is normally used to. This can put you at risk of estrogen-related sides if left for extended periods of time.

At the end of the day, if all of your hormones are within range and have been there for a decent amount of time, your PCT is successful and you may not have a need for an AI. Unfortunately, most people don't get bloods drawn during or after PCT so they are deaing with guesswork. In that case a good long taper on a SERM and light use of an AI is best, IMHO. A lot of what steroid users do is based upon guesswork and 'feel'. That is the nature of things it seems.

As I mentioned up above there just isn't one PCT protcol that will work for everybody. On top of that, the PCT protocols that any given indivudual has used in the past may not even be succesful for them in the future. Our bodies and their hormonal fluctuations are definitely moving targets. Without knowing excatly what our bodies are saying, we are all just making educated guesses. Sometimes an AI will be necessary and sometimes it might not be.

For me, I live with the motto that PCT is a time for normalization, while off cycle is a time for stabilization. Get your hormones within range during PCT and maintain that while you are off cycle. This is the safest best.

This is definitely a good discussion and the differences in opinion just show that there is no one size fits all approach to f*cking with our hormmones. This entire thread can be summed up in one sentence though - get educated, be prepared, know your body, get bloodwork and keep your hormones within your healthy range.
 
EDBANGER said:
I believe I experienced the onset of Progesterone/Prolcatin related Gyno in the last few weeks of both my M-Dien cycles. The first time I started using Nolvadex early along with Mucuna pruriens and B6 which got rid of nipple sensitivity within a week and the small lump that had began to form disappeared after two weeks. The second time through I ran the Mucuna pruriens and B6 from the start but still had the Gyno symptoms appear a little later in the cycle. I just added the Nolvadex and again it sorted itself out quickly.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this one but my understanding was that an AI wouldn't have helped me in these instances as M-Dien wasn't aromatising? I did have some Arimidex in the draw but I decided to save that for another time. My next cycle I was intending to stack Diabolix (45mg) with Halo (75mg). Would the Arimidex be useful during that cycle and if so at what point?
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I stacked Halo and Diabolix together and have run Halo solo as well. I found both substances to produce great vascularity and dry gains. I truly believe this can be user-dependent though. In theory you shouldn't need the Arimidex but I have zero idea what the current state of your hormones are like, nor do I know how you will repsond to the two compounds. Having it on hand in case of bloat or sensitive nips is a good idea.

If I had to run that stack again, I would dose the Diabolix at 60 and the Halo at 75. If run separately I would use Diabolix at 60-90 and Halo at 75-100
 
Toren said:
If your test is crashed during and after PCT, your PCT was not successful and you should definitely not be using an AI. Your PCT (SERM etc.) should bring you back into your normal range, if not slightly above. With all of the test boosters and things people use in PCT, there can definitely be a rapid elevation in estrogen and that level can get higher than your body is normally used to. This can put you at risk of estrogen-related sides if left for extended periods of time.

At the end of the day, if all of your hormones are within range and have been there for a decent amount of time, your PCT is successful and you may not have a need for an AI. Unfortunately, most people don't get bloods drawn during or after PCT so they are deaing with guesswork. In that case a good long taper on a SERM and light use of an AI is best, IMHO. A lot of what steroid users do is based upon guesswork and 'feel'. That is the nature of things it seems.

As I mentioned up above there just isn't one PCT protcol that will work for everybody. On top of that, the PCT protocols that any given indivudual has used in the past may not even be succesful for them in the future. Our bodies and their hormonal fluctuations are definitely moving targets. Without knowing excatly what our bodies are saying, we are all just making educated guesses. Sometimes an AI will be necessary and sometimes it might not be.

For me, I live with the motto that PCT is a time for normalization, while off cycle is a time for stabilization. Get your hormones within range during PCT and maintain that while you are off cycle. This is the safest best.

This is definitely a good discussion and the differences in opinion just show that there is no one size fits all approach to f*cking with our hormmones. This entire thread can be summed up in one sentence though - get educated, be prepared, know your body, get bloodwork and keep your hormones within your healthy range.
Click to expand...


The 8 weeks post PCT is the time for normalization. The fact is for 6-8 weeks post pct your body is still under the influence of the serms you take in pct and any blood work done at a minimum of 6 weeks post pct and a maximum of even 8 weeks post pct will still show the effects of the serms. Dr Scally has documented this time and time again. To get an accurate reflection of a successful PCT blood work should be drawn a minimum of 6 weeks post pct but preferably 8 weeks post pct.
PCT will elevate numbers well above normal levels, not to normal levels, and the serms still exert there effects on us for literally weeks after their administration ceases just in a diminishing capacity. THIS is when the body normalizes, on its own, reaching homeostasis.
 
StanleyG said:
The 8 weeks post PCT is the time for normalization. The fact is for 6-8 weeks post pct your body is still under the influence of the serms you take in pct and any blood work done at a minimum of 6 weeks post pct and a maximum of even 8 weeks post pct will still show the effects of the serms. Dr Scally has documented this time and time again. To get an accurate reflection of a successful PCT blood work should be drawn a minimum of 6 weeks post pct but preferably 8 weeks post pct.
PCT will elevate numbers well above normal levels, not to normal levels, and the serms still exert there effects on us for literally weeks after their administration ceases just in a diminishing capacity. THIS is when the body normalizes, on its own, reaching homeostasis.
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I completely agree with you. I believe we are saying similar things but in adifferent way. When I use the terminology normalization and stabilization, what I am saying is that we should use PCT (with the protection of our SERM) to get our body back and functioning as quickly as possible into it's pre-cycle "normal" range, or above. In fact I would argue that the over-use of SERM's and boostrers in order to continue to make monster gains during PCT can also be a problem in and of itself. We always take the risks we take with gains being almost always (for most people) the most important thing. I would also argue that with the difference in quality of research chemicals and internet-purchased drugs, we are all over the map with things in PCT. Some poeple may be below pre-cycle levels, some people may fall mostly within range and others may be over. I like a long taper myself as I like to give my body the best chance to come back to 'home base' in a controlled manner. My goal by the end of PCT is to be within range of where I normally am, hormonally speaking of course. Far too many people end PCT not having a clue what their hormone levels are. Far too many people end their PCT because their PCT supplements have run out, despite not feeling right. Hormonal homeostasis is just another way of saying that we have managed to stabilize our levels within it's natural range and have maintained them there for a good amount of time. Slowing the roller coaster down and having it level out for a while is also something that is overlooked and will help us have a successful next cycle. The constant up and down that happens when we cycle too much is not good for the body.
 
EDBANGER said:
Cheers Toren. How did you find the gains strength wise? This is what I'm primarily interested in.
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Both compounds were good for strength gains for me. My previous solo Halo run was incredible for strength gains but my training was more on point and my life was less congested, when compared to the Diabolix/Halo run.
 
Toren said:
I completely agree with you. I believe we are saying similar things but in adifferent way. When I use the terminology normalization and stabilization, what I am saying is that we should use PCT (with the protection of our SERM) to get our body back and functioning as quickly as possible into it's pre-cycle "normal" range, or above. In fact I would argue that the over-use of SERM's and boostrers in order to continue to make monster gains during PCT can also be a problem in and of itself. We always take the risks we take with gains being almost always (for most people) the most important thing. I would also argue that with the difference in quality of research chemicals and internet-purchased drugs, we are all over the map with things in PCT. Some poeple may be below pre-cycle levels, some people may fall mostly within range and others may be over. I like a long taper myself as I like to give my body the best chance to come back to 'home base' in a controlled manner. My goal by the end of PCT is to be within range of where I normally am, hormonally speaking of course. Far too many people end PCT not having a clue what their hormone levels are. Far too many people end their PCT because their PCT supplements have run out, despite not feeling right. Hormonal homeostasis is just another way of saying that we have managed to stabilize our levels within it's natural range and have maintained them there for a good amount of time. Slowing the roller coaster down and having it level out for a while is also something that is overlooked and will help us have a successful next cycle. The constant up and down that happens when we cycle too much is not good for the body.
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I think on many levels your right. Our thoughts on this matter are very alike just the way we express them might make them appear different when in fact they are not. When it comes to "the big stuff" I think we are same page man. Cheers.
 
Never had any trouble with gyno or hair lose. I guess I'm lucky !!
 
Gyno is not only individual it can be dependant on dosages and compounds I can run trest and need an AI and serm. I can run test and dbol and be ok on low dose aromasin
 
Blergs said:
I run AI during cycle, stop at PCT ( when i did pct, now im on hrt) and have had no issues since using and dialing in AI use.
rebound? after PCT your body is still trying to level out. if there is some sensitivity run low dose SERM like 10mg tamox ed for an extra week or two.
Click to expand...

This might be the way I should do it to be on the safe side..

And PCT with nolvadex at 20/20/10/10/10/10? Oh by the way what does "ed" mean?
 
Gstyle24 said:
This might be the way I should do it to be on the safe side..

And PCT with nolvadex at 20/20/10/10/10/10? Oh by the way what does "ed" mean?
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Ed means everyday

I don't think 6 weeks is necessary unless your running a pretty heavy cycle
 
It comes with the territory. I was having some trouble with rebound gyno, but luckily I catches it in time and been properly been taking care of it.
 
There is no way gyno can form in the time from your end of pct and the time in which the body disposes of any excess e2. All you are doing by adding in an ai and running it post pct is delaying the body achieving homeostasis as quickly as it would without this addition and delaying getting back to your true, off cycle levels of hormones.
 
StanleyG said:
There is no way gyno can form in the time from your end of pct and the time in which the body disposes of any excess e2. All you are doing by adding in an ai and running it post pct is delaying the body achieving homeostasis as quickly as it would without this addition and delaying getting back to your true, off cycle levels of hormones.
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Respect the info you've been dropping in this thread... question for you regarding arimistane... in your opinion, does it have any place in a good pct? I know there's a lot of mixed opinions on whether it even reduces estrogen at all, or whether it's only good for controlling cortisol. But it's found in so many otc pct products and so easy to come by, just wondering if it's actually helpful, harmful, or just plain worthless for getting everything normalized. If you think it's helpful, how would you use it?
 
warpyfunch said:
Respect the info you've been dropping in this thread... question for you regarding arimistane... in your opinion, does it have any place in a good pct? I know there's a lot of mixed opinions on whether it even reduces estrogen at all, or whether it's only good for controlling cortisol. But it's found in so many otc pct products and so easy to come by, just wondering if it's actually helpful, harmful, or just plain worthless for getting everything normalized. If you think it's helpful, how would you use it?
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My knowledge of this compound is very limited but this is what Patrick Arnold says about it, "The whole family of 7-oxygenated dhea metabolites are fascinating compounds, for many reasons other than aromatase inhibition. The compound under discussion here is not a major metabolite though, and so its very unlikely you could achieve therapeutic drug levels in your body by ingesting any reasonable amount "
PA knows his stuff. I tend to respect his opinion here.
Oh and Thank You for the kind words man.
 
Toren said:
If your test is crashed during and after PCT, your PCT was not successful and you should definitely not be using an AI. .
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that is not really true due to the fact recovery is still happening and your test IS crashed.. even after PCT you are still recovering in most cases. PCT is just to HELP recovery, just because you do a PCT good or bad , doesnt mean you are recovered and i assure you during you ARE crashed ( specially during start of PCT) and is one factor to most feeling a bit crappy during PCT.
even if you dont do PCT you would be slowly recovering.
BUT I do agree that recovery is not necessarily 100% guaranteed in some cases.
 
StanleyG said:
The 8 weeks post PCT is the time for normalization. The fact is for 6-8 weeks post pct your body is still under the influence of the serms you take in pct and any blood work done at a minimum of 6 weeks post pct and a maximum of even 8 weeks post pct will still show the effects of the serms. Dr Scally has documented this time and time again. To get an accurate reflection of a successful PCT blood work should be drawn a minimum of 6 weeks post pct but preferably 8 weeks post pct.
PCT will elevate numbers well above normal levels, not to normal levels, and the serms still exert there effects on us for literally weeks after their administration ceases just in a diminishing capacity. THIS is when the body normalizes, on its own, reaching homeostasis.
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Very well put ! recovery is still happening AND there is after effects to the serms after cession of their use. I usually rec getting blood work 2mo after PCT, never right after ( as some seem to do in a rush to check things out, but I feel its a waste and useless to go do bloods a week or two after PCT)

DR.Scally is one guy that although i feel is not intouch with reality/real world usages on many things, DOES have alot of great info and in this case it is one of them in relation to SERM and PCT information.
 
not sure if this has been mentioned yet...
But running 30mg of Torem or 10mg Nolva DURING your cycle is a great way to keep the dreaded gyno away. I ran Torem during my last run, and it was a very stacked cycle indeed, everything turned out great...now, was that by chance or destiny or was it because i took a extra precaution? If it works, do it.
Old school bodybuilders started this and still use it. It makes sense.
Dealing with gyno on PCT should be taken care of with whatever serm and AI/estro control you are running.

A small amount of serm while "on", will NOT control your estrogen, but it will keep it from binding to your boobs....in theory.
Best of luck to us all!
 
I think what I'm gonna do to take the extra precaution is dose Anastrozole at .50mg every other day and see how I feel, maybe .50mg everyday..on cycle that is.

Then PCT I'm gonna do Nolvadex 20/20/10/10/10 with Exemestane at 25mg a day
 
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